05-13-2010, 12:17 PM | #801 |
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I'm starting to wonder if all of this expansion of the power conferences talk is just a smoke screen to deflect attention away from the non-AQ conferences trying to get AQ status.
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05-13-2010, 02:03 PM | #802 | |
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Expansion would benefit those schools I would think. If you have a consolidation that results in 4-5 mega conferences, there's less automatic qualifiers and more at-large spots or an additional auto-bid or two (assuming they keep the BCS spots as they are and only allow auto-bids to championship game winners). |
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05-13-2010, 02:32 PM | #803 |
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If something happened where Missouri, Colorado, and Nebraska left, I think we'd then see how committed the Texas schools are to the Big 12. If those three left, the replacements looked bleak, and the SEC offered tons of cash, it would certainly become interesting quickly.
I think KU will be fine without the Border War financially. It's just a matter of whether they want to give up a traditional rivalry. Of course if it's a Big 12 rule and Missouri knows it, it is really the Tigers that are giving it up for more money. It seems to me that the Mizzou fans on here can live with that result. There aren't that many non-conference rivalries that don't involve Notre Dame anyway. Florida-FSU and Clemson-South Carolina are the only two at the top of my head. Oklahoma-Texas used to be one, and I imagine will always be one even if the teams split (unless A&M is also not in their conference, then I think they would play A&M over Oklahoma). |
05-13-2010, 02:33 PM | #804 | |
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05-13-2010, 02:41 PM | #805 | |
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Even if there were no increase in auto-bids, it would be a lot harder to penalize a team in the polls for not winning their conference. If anything, the per-conference-bid cap would be lifted or raised from 2. |
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05-13-2010, 09:55 PM | #806 | ||
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Hm. Perhaps I wasn't aware of the details going on on the other end of the raid, but my recollection of the events is that the ACC offered BC, Miami, and Syracuse initially. VT (through the Virginia state government) and UConn (through the Connecticut AG Blumenthal) were the muscle behind the lawsuit. The bigger of the two problems was VT's power play, which forced Virginia to support VT instead of BC or Syracuse for the ACC, even though VT was part of the original lawsuit with the remaining Big East schools. BC wanted to come to the ACC all along because they thought they were getting in with Syracuse and Miami. Miami was voted in by the ACC easily, but Virginia couldn't accept anyone else in unless VT got in first, so VT got in as the 11th member. After that, Syracuse basically was off the board and the question was whether BC (which was the more enthusiastic of the two schools about coming to the ACC) would get voted in. However, they fell one vote short because I believe the NC State chancellor at the time wanted to make a play for Notre Dame. When ND refused, the ACC returned to BC later, thus the two-step expansion. I do remember reading about a lot of disappointment on the BC end after they were rejected initially since they were pretty much all set to go to the ACC that first year of the expansion. Led to a pretty awkward exit period. Edit: An article detailing the original suit filed in Connecticut. BC is named as a defendant while VT is one of the plaintiffs. Last edited by Wolfpack : 05-13-2010 at 09:59 PM. |
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05-14-2010, 07:54 AM | #807 | |
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1. MU/KU will continue on. Only thing that's really lost is one basketball game. It's not that big of a change in regards to games played. 2. Mizzou ends up with some really good regional rivalries in the Big Ten scenario. Nebraska, Iowa, and Illinois are a short drive away for the fan base. |
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05-14-2010, 08:39 AM | #808 |
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16-20 team conferences in football is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard of.
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05-14-2010, 09:22 AM | #809 | |
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My bad on the lawsuit part. I remembered that they were supposedly involved in sharing confidential information from league meetings and that was part of the lawsuit. In any case, there was no Big East "rule" that prohibited the teams from playing BC, Miami, or VPI. |
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05-14-2010, 10:06 AM | #810 |
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05-14-2010, 10:19 AM | #811 |
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Saw this funny ad posted yesterday on Craigslist. It was taken down, but not before a couple of KU fans saved the pic.
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05-14-2010, 10:22 AM | #812 | |
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Fixed. Last edited by Mizzou B-ball fan : 05-14-2010 at 10:22 AM. |
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05-14-2010, 10:28 AM | #813 |
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ESPN Radio is reporting that Dan Beebe has talked with the Big 10 commissioner (despite his repeated denials) and is already considering options to replace Mizzou and Nebraska.
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05-14-2010, 10:58 AM | #814 |
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An interesting take from a Detroit Free Press columnist.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...te=fullarticle |
05-14-2010, 11:10 AM | #815 | |
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I'm not sure he's saying anything new. Notre Dame is the obvious option and it's becoming increasingly apparant that Notre Dame realizes that their other sports will suffer significantly with the Big East falling apart. They need to make the jump now to a conference or risk being left out of a reformed BCS picture. If Notre Dame had already gone with the 'we're staying independent' option, this expansion plan would already be signed, sealed and delivered. The fact that it's not done yet speaks volumes. The Texas argument doesn't hold much merit. Texas isn't coming on their own because they're still holding on to the hope of creating their own network. And there's no way that the Big Ten is bringing four Texas schools on board as he suggests. |
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05-14-2010, 11:29 AM | #816 |
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I don't know that Notre Dame's sports will suffer significantly if they stick with the non-football playing members of the Big East. Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, and Notre Dame are all pretty strong (routine tourney teams) and Seton Hall, St. John's, DePaul, and Providence all have good histories and are much better than the bottom half of most conferences. If they add Xavier and St. Louis (as has been mentioned), they are in a lot of good markets (St. Louis, Chicago, D.C., Philly, NYC, Cincy, etc.)
Still, I agree with your point. Either Notre Dame is not a firm no yet or Jim Delaney is just getting off on all of the attention the Big Ten is receiving. We know that Missouri and the Big East schools would say "yes!" before the offer was out of his mouth and, I assume, Nebraska is in the same boat. |
05-14-2010, 04:56 PM | #817 |
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Mark my words - Boise State. Seriouslly Serious.
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05-14-2010, 05:39 PM | #818 | ||
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My sources told me that Missouri was starting a one team conference. This will give them more opportunities to play with themselves.
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05-14-2010, 05:47 PM | #819 |
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This all would have been resolved if sportsdigs was still around.
This thread has the potential to beat the maximum football thread in posts, if it continues to 2012 or whenever this happens. |
05-14-2010, 05:51 PM | #820 |
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05-14-2010, 05:52 PM | #821 |
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Discussion about possible revenue explosion with expansion........
Big Ten expansion: TV money could skyrocket - chicagotribune.com Interesting read. This article is from December. It's an interview of Mizzou's AD that is pretty telling in hindsight given his comments about the B12 payouts........... Frustration and temptation: Q&A with Mike Alden | ColumbiaTribune.com |
05-15-2010, 02:37 PM | #822 | |
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Looks like we have a pretty good indication that a contract or bid is in Mizzou's hands. A local paper attempted a Freedom of Information Act request and was denied. But they also made it pretty obvious why they were denied. From Dennis Dodd:
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Also, Lincoln voters just approved a new arena for the Nebraska basketball team. Hopefully that along with a move to the Big Ten will give them an opportunity to build their program. Will Nebraska's new arena really translate into hoops success? - The Dagger - NCAAB* - Yahoo! Sports |
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05-15-2010, 02:54 PM | #823 | |
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There's also UNLV-Nevada
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05-15-2010, 06:05 PM | #824 |
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05-16-2010, 01:47 PM | #825 |
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Looks like the MWC might bring Boise State in finally.
Another Boise-to-MWC rumor ahead of league meeting | CollegeFootballTalk.com |
05-17-2010, 01:55 PM | #826 |
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Don't know if this has been posted already, but over on Scout, somebody said the name for the expanded Big Ten could be:
B16 Ten. |
05-17-2010, 03:56 PM | #827 |
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In related news, the ACC reached a new TV deal with ESPN. $155 million annually, more than double what was received from the prior ESPN/Raycom deal. I'm sure there was a ton of language put into the deal in the event that any teams leave, but at $13 million annually per team there's a lot less incentive for someone to leave for the SEC. Also likely to reduce the chances of expansion in the conference.
http://triangle.bizjournals.com/tria...17/daily2.html Last edited by Logan : 05-17-2010 at 03:56 PM. |
05-17-2010, 04:42 PM | #828 | |
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Not sure this changes the expansion dynamic much. It is a much better deal than people thought the ACC would get, for sure, but it is still going to be no match for SEC money. And I know the SEC deal contains escalator clauses if they add teams and/or markets (i.e., Miami, Dallas or Atlanta). I would be surprised if the ACC deal wasn't similar. |
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05-17-2010, 04:55 PM | #829 |
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05-17-2010, 11:05 PM | #830 | |
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I'd have to agree with that. Given all the expansion buzz, it'd be crazy for the ACC or anyone else not to include some lines in the contract describing what would happen should the lineup within the conference change. At the very least, it's an indication that while ESPN values the SEC more, they pretty much believe the ACC membership will be unaffected by any fallout from any realignments in college football. I doubt ESPN would put up this sort of cash for a league that would face potential losses of any football schools to the SEC or the Big 10. |
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05-18-2010, 09:37 AM | #831 | |
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Well, a lot of people just sort of figured that if the SEC ever came calling for some combination of Clemson, Fla. St., Ga. Tech, and/or Miami, they would come running. This deal does not make that impossible, but it does give all of those schools reasons to strongly consider their options before bolting for the SEC. At a minimum, it certainly keeps the ACC from looking like a sinking ship right before a bunch of movement might happen. Maybe it makes SEC expansion more likely with non-ACC schools like South Florida, Louisville, the Texas Schools, etc. |
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05-18-2010, 09:53 AM | #832 | |
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05-18-2010, 10:31 AM | #833 | |
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I agree with much of that. I still think an SEC offer would be very difficult for FSU, Ga Tech or Miami to turn down. I'm not sure how in the mix Clemson is in the SEC shuffle. Part of the attractiveness of the SEC deal is the ability to negotiate your own local deals outside of the ACC contract. For example, Florida has a side deal with the Sunshine Network. As I understand it, the ACC deal prevents individual schools from doing the same. But, I completely agree that this is a GREAT deal for the ACC and a pretty big step in the right direction for the conference. |
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05-18-2010, 02:01 PM | #834 |
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Here's an article that says a whole lot about nothing new, but at least it's the Big Ten commissioner doing the talking this time.
Big Ten commissioner: 'We won’t expand for the sake of expansion' - KansasCity.com |
05-18-2010, 02:13 PM | #835 | |
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I thought that's what they announced they were looking into to begin with.
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05-18-2010, 02:16 PM | #836 |
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No, but they will expand for the sake of money.
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05-18-2010, 06:07 PM | #837 |
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Big Ten commissioner says vote on expansion 'months away,' won't happen in June - ESPN
Delaney says vote still a ways off.
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05-18-2010, 07:48 PM | #838 | |
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Fantastic to see the commissioner give two totally contrasting comments in the same day. In one article, he's quoted as saying a vote is months away. In another article, he says it could happen in less than the 12 month timetable. More than anything, the fact that he can't get his own story straight indicates there's probably a lot going on right now behind the scenes and the rumors of activity are likely pretty accurate. |
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05-18-2010, 07:50 PM | #839 |
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I'm failing to see the total contrast.
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05-18-2010, 07:53 PM | #840 |
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In the KC article, he said less than 12 months is a possibility (which would have to be early summer). In the other article, he said it's months away, which indicates a fall decision, if not later. It's somewhat amusing that he's even playing this game at this point. As has been mentioned by several writers, he's just dragging it out to make sure he has the 'yes' from all schools, which basically hinges on Notre Dame. There's little question that we're going to have a decision in June or early July. There's far too many indicators that point to a sooner rather than later decision. |
05-18-2010, 07:56 PM | #841 | |
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He gives the same quote in the ESPN article. Having a vote several months from now and implementing before next football season seems doable. Most estimates I have read would put some kind of announcement by August of this year. Who knows if implementation is 2011, 2012 or 2015. You're parsing this too much. |
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05-18-2010, 08:05 PM | #842 |
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There is also a blog entry over on ESPN.com (by Eammon Brennan - sp?) that indicates that the Big Ten teams got closer to $9-million per (rather than the $22-million per that seems to have spread and considered fact) from the BTN. That is still a tremendous supplement for the teams in the Big Ten, but quite a bit different than the previously reported amount.
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05-18-2010, 08:35 PM | #843 | |
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Took a little digging over there to find it, so I'll provide the link to the Chicago Trib article he was referencing Big Ten expansion: TV money could skyrocket - chicagotribune.com Here's the relevant quote Last year, schools received roughly $9 million each from the conference's deal with ABC/ESPN and another $7 million to $8 million from the BTN. Add revenue from bowl games, the NCAA basketball tournament and licensing, and you arrive at the estimated $22 million-a-year distribution figure that's the envy of every Division I school outside the Southeastern Conference.
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05-18-2010, 09:35 PM | #844 |
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One thing is that while the Big 10 Network's subscriber base may increase (or, more specifically, the fees per subscriber in the new markets), I can't see ESPN's contract going up proportionally with the new teams. I don't see Nebraska, Missouri, and three Big East teams making the deal worth that much more--even with a championship game. This is why I think it's probably more like the Big Ten expands by one (Notre Dame first, then pick one second) than by five.
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05-18-2010, 11:15 PM | #845 | |
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Kind of a mixed bag of thoughts. Delaney sort of indicated that a conference championship is not a vital aspect of expansion (although he didn't shoot it down, either), but it is hard to figure out how expansion is a slam dunk for the Big Ten without adding Notre Dame or Texas. I think adding any of the discussed teams and getting to 12 w/ a championship probably pays for itself without diluting things and maybe going to 14, if Nebraska (one of the better national brand name teams), works. Although, I think there is some risk in 14 w/o Notre Dame or Texas. |
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05-19-2010, 08:05 AM | #846 | ||
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That's correct. The ESPN contract wouldn't change a whole lot initially. The Big Ten Network on the other hand is expected to add $15M in annual revenue by adding just Missouri alone. Any East Coast team would also bump that number substantially. It does sound increasingly that Notre Dame is not going to budge. Mizzou and Nebraska have to (and want to) go at this point. They've cut far too many connections. It just remains to be seen where the other 1-3 teams come from. I mentioned earlier in the thread that the rumors of Texas moving or aligning with other conferences are premature given their stance on wanting their own network. The comments from the Texas AD yesterday illustrate just how difficult a partner Texas is, whether it's in the Big 12 or somewhere else. Quote:
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05-19-2010, 03:23 PM | #847 | |
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Some new tweets from Tom Dienhart (they read from newest to oldest):
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Last edited by Swaggs : 05-19-2010 at 03:24 PM. |
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05-19-2010, 03:30 PM | #848 |
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Other Big Ten buzz (this is all message board fodder, mostly from NCAAbbs - Expansion/Split ) :
They are not looking to add a conference championship or playoff because they want to preserve their rivalries at the end of the season. If the rest of the league plays 8 regular season games and allows ND/Texas to only play 7, an 8-0 team would be the champion over a 7-0 ND or Texas, but the 7-0 team would be guaranteed the second BCS slot (ND and Texas would play each other every year to ensure that there would not be two 7-0 teams). If Notre Dame joins the Big Ten, it will not add any other Big East schools. |
05-19-2010, 03:35 PM | #849 |
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Interesting. I wonder what "the second BCS slot" means.
I mean, the Big Ten only sends one team to the BCS, right? As far as we know? And, what if there are two 8-0 teams and a 7-0 team? That could still happen, couldn't it? Last edited by Passacaglia : 05-19-2010 at 03:36 PM. |
05-19-2010, 03:42 PM | #850 | |
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Overanalysis. Go back a few years to the Missouri screwjob, when they got passed over for Kansas by the Orange Bowl - Oklahoma had the automatic berth by virtue of the conference championship, Kansas received an at-large, and Missouri dropped to the Cotton Bowl because no BCS conference can send more than two teams to a BCS bowl. What they're saying is that an ND/Texas who went 7-0 would be (probably contractually required) to be the second bid out of the Big Ten if any bowl wished to take a second Big Ten team. Not that going 7-0 would guarantee them a spot in one of those bowls. Guaranteeing the spot would probably require the assent of the other major conferences, and I can't see them locking into that. |
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