NFL 2019 Season Thread

[thesloppy]

This game stinks.

[Lathum]

There is nothing more chargers then having to go 98 yards in 63 seconds
With no time outs.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

There is nothing more chargers then having to go 98 yards in 63 seconds
With no time outs.

And then the two play calls they make are high floaters down the field, as if they only had 20 secs.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Lathum

There is nothing more chargers then having to go 98 yards in 63 seconds
With no time outs.

I’d gone to bed because the game was such a waste of time, but if you are telling me that Rivers played his team out of the game, then put up massive numbers in a comeback effort that would inevitably fall short, I didn’t need to watch the rest of the game because I’ve seen this happen three or four times a season for the past eight or so years.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I’d gone to bed because the game was such a waste of time, but if you are telling me that Rivers played his team out of the game, then put up massive numbers in a comeback effort that would inevitably fall short, I didn’t need to watch the rest of the game because I’ve seen this happen three or four times a season for the past eight or so years.

Rivers played good, but Pittsburgh played soft and deep for the fourth quarter. Plus, Pittsburgh refused to pass the ball which didn't lead to a whole lot of mystery on the defensive side or ball control.

[stevew]

I keep hoping Daniel Snyder will make an “unprecedented “ offer for Tomlin this offseason.

[miami_fan]

I know this may be old news but after seeing the clips of the Steeler fans takeover of Dignity Health Sports Park, I looked up the capacity of SoFi Stadium. What percentage of the 70,240 seats will be occupied by fans of the opposing team for Charger home games? Do the Chargers even have a fan base of 27,000? Is this what the NFL wanted?

[PilotMan]

The Chargers will have nothing in LA, and everyone in SD was so completely abandoned that they will never have any kind of loyal fanbase unless they manage to win a SB within 5 years. That's it. IF the Rams find success it's going to be over for the Chargers.



I still think that the NFL wanted the Raiders back in LA and the Chargers in LV. That would have been a better solution than what they have now.

[Atocep]

I was looking at FO and to put into perspective how bad the Dolphins are:

Coming into this week the Bengals were 31st in DVOA at -39.8%. The Dolphins were -90.9%.

That gap of roughly 50% in DVOA is roughly equal to the gap between the Patriots (2nd) and the Lions (11th).

[JPhillips]

The Dolphins are clearly the worst team, but I still think the Bengals are the worst organization. The Dolphins are trying to lose, but the Bengals are trying to win and are still this bad.

[PilotMan]

Feel bad that Darrius blew that with no fair catch call. He's dangerous if he gets going. I'm sure he was thinking he had plenty of time. Going to be hard to send him back out after that as a coach though. And, how was that not massive offensive pass interference? If those roles would have been reversed it would have been a defensive mugging. I am so tired of those subjectivity calls and the blows to the head resulting in penalties, like happened earlier. Two guys going for the ball and it results in a helmet to helmet. No chance to have it any other way and still play the game. It just ruins it.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The Dolphins are clearly the worst team, but I still think the Bengals are the worst organization. The Dolphins are trying to lose, but the Bengals are trying to win and are still this bad.

Bengals have been a fun team to play in Madden 20. They are in horrible shape but I've made several trades in preparation for the 2020 draft.

[EagleFan]

Horrible call on that hands to the face penalty and that was huge too.

[EagleFan]

Again, another terrible call.

[jbergey22]

Typical, Refs turn blind and stupid in Green Bay.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Typical, Refs turn blind and stupid in Green Bay.

Those calls were awful. Plus the no call on the defensive PI when Detroit had the ball after that.

[EagleFan]

The refs should do the leap, they were the biggest part of that "comeback".

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Those calls were awful. Plus the no call on the defensive PI when Detroit had the ball after that.

Yes they were. Its hard to watch games at Lambeau Field. It doesnt matter the road team but they are getting screwed by the zebras all game long.

[Jas_lov]

Packers had some calls go against them too. They earned that win. Detroit shoulda scored more TD's instead of FG's.

[jbergey22]

At least the announcers are calling out the BS job by the refs tonight. Usually, nothing much is said about awful game deciding calls.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

And then the two play calls they make are high floaters down the field, as if they only had 20 secs.

This was my impression of the game. I watched a good portion of the first half, then turned it off. I turned it back on, saw the score, was shocked, then watched the final two plays for the Chargers on offense. It made no sense to me how the Chargers managed to get back in the game while I wasn't watching based upon the putrid play that I saw.

[albionmoonlight]

Akiem Hicks going to IR. Shame. I always liked him. Dude had some issues when he was younger, so he played Canadian college football. Bounced around a bit (Saints traded him at one point for a backup tight end) but eventually turned into a top 100 player.

Hope to see him back next season.

[miami_fan]

Per Schefter

Jalen Ramsey to the Rams

2020, 2021 1st round pick and 2021 4th round pick to the Jags.

[NobodyHere]

So is anyone paying attention to the XFL draft?

No?

Alright then.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Per Schefter

Jalen Ramsey to the Rams

2020, 2021 1st round pick and 2021 4th round pick to the Jags.

Was wondering why they traded Peters. This makes a heckuva lot more sense.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Per Schefter

Jalen Ramsey to the Rams

2020, 2021 1st round pick and 2021 4th round pick to the Jags.

Wow. For a team with huge salary cap issues coming up this is a big chips pushing in & potentially shortening a window move.

Should also be mentioned that the Rams traded Marcus Peters to the Ravens for a 5th? round pick. (Possibly because he threatened to stab 2 coaches.)

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Packers had some calls go against them too. They earned that win. Detroit shoulda scored more TD's instead of FG's.

I'm fine with saying the Lions can't whine because they should've converted, but those two calls on Flowers were absolutely game changing.

[thesloppy]

Sorted by "Penalty Beneficiary Yards"

[Jstraub]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I'm fine with saying the Lions can't whine because they should've converted, but those two calls on Flowers were absolutely game changing.

Yeah but... Maybe Flowers should develop a pass rush move that doesn't involve keeping his hand inches from the opponents neck and facemask. He was flagged on a crucial 3rd down earlier in the 4th quarter, THEN kept doing the same move. Look I get the second penalty was a bad call but players continually refuse to take responsibility for their actions. If Flowers cant stop forcefully jamming his hands in or near the opponent's face, maybe he should find a different career.

Also, I wonder what team drafted Flowers and taught him this "borderline" technique?

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Jstraub

Yeah but... Maybe Flowers should develop a pass rush move that doesn't involve keeping his hand inches from the opponents neck and facemask. He was flagged on a crucial 3rd down earlier in the 4th quarter, THEN kept doing the same move. Look I get the second penalty was a bad call but players continually refuse to take responsibility for their actions. If Flowers cant stop forcefully jamming his hands in or near the opponent's face, maybe he should find a different career.

Also, I wonder what team drafted Flowers and taught him this "borderline" technique?

On the other hand, if he's been using that technique for 4 years and it is so borderline, how come he's never been called for it until twice last night?

[miami_fan]

Wait, Blake Bortles is the Rams backup?

[Jstraub]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

On the other hand, if he's been using that technique for 4 years and it is so borderline, how come he's never been called for it until twice last night?

Your right... Its probably because the NFL just wants the Packers to win. I'm sure the NFL knew Rodgers would throw a TD into tight coverage a few plays after that second hands to face penalty. And the NFL forced the Lions to kick 5 field goals instead of scoring touchdowns. Oh and my favorite... The NFL forced the Lions to line up with 12 players on the field, thus giving the packers a first down on what would have been a field goal try.

Nope the REFs lost that game. right

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Jstraub

Your right... Its probably because the NFL just wants the Packers to win. I'm sure the NFL knew Rodgers would throw a TD into tight coverage a few plays after that second hands to face penalty. And the NFL forced the Lions to kick 5 field goals instead of scoring touchdowns. Oh and my favorite... The NFL forced the Lions to line up with 12 players on the field, thus giving the packers a first down on what would have been a field goal try.

Nope the REFs lost that game. right

If that's your favorite you must've really loved it when GB lined up with 13 players and wasn't called.

[EagleFan]

Pretty obviously bad and it's obvious that some of the Packer diehards can't even admit it.

Both hands to the face calls were game changing. Yet we hear "he shouldn't have made it close" instead of, yeah the refs screwed up.

How about the no call on pass interference that wasn't even a 50/50 call but obvious?

How about the touchdown that was actually down at the 1? How did they not overturn that on review?

How about the hands to the face by the Packers d-lineman that was obvious and the ref was right there looking at it?

13 men?

I know several Packers fans who have basically said "yeah, we got the breaks... but also the win." To them I say, bravo.

To get the breaks and then whine about it... that's just asinine.

[Jstraub]

Oh to be clear, as a Packer fan, I’ll take A win like that. I lived through fail Mary.

All teams lose games like the lions just did. It sucks when it’s your team. I’m not convinced officiating is any worse in 2019 than in any past year. It’s always been controversial.

[EagleFan]

I'll disagree a bit, I think officiating has been horrible this year. They will always miss calls but I have seen so many obvious calls missed that I don't know what is going to be a penalty anymore.

Full time refs?

Additional off field refs that can call penalties (though I hate where that could go but they need to at least get the blatant ones called correctly)?

[thesloppy]

As a Lions fan, I can even pull some disgruntlement out of the fact that the narrative around this game is "Did the refs help Green Bay win *this* particular game?" rather than "Did the refs help the Lions to *another* ridiculous loss.

I'm sure to plenty of folks that sounds like sour grapes whining, but let's consider some recent Lions losses:

Sept. 13, 2010 - The original 'Calvin Johnson Rule'

Nov. 22, 2012 - The one where Forsett was down on an incorrectly ruled touchdown, but the mandatory replay is somehow negated by Jim Schwarts challenging the play.

Jan. 4, 2015 - The one where the refs just picked up a PI flag against the Cowboys and didn't bother to explain.

Oct. 5, 2015 - The one where Seattle wins by intentionally and illegally batting the ball out of the endzone.

Dec. 3, 2015 - The Packers Hail Mary which (constantly gets replayed as a highlight but) was only possible because of a phantom hands to the face call against the Lions that extended the game past :00.

Sept. 24, 2017 - Lions are ruled to have scored a touchdown in the last seconds of a game against the Falcons, but replay results in a questionable overturn that also necessitates a 10-second run off, ending the game.

Oct. 14, 2019 - Last night

That's seven 'signature' losses by just plain poor refereeing over 8 1/2 seasons. A couple of those years the Lions missed the playoffs by just a game. Like I said, I'm sure that all sounds like typical sports fan sour grapes, but I'm not so much trying to convince anyone else that the Lions are perpetual victims so much as I'm publicly wondering why I continue to watch this shit?

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I'll disagree a bit, I think officiating has been horrible this year. They will always miss calls but I have seen so many obvious calls missed that I don't know what is going to be a penalty anymore.

I feel like this years Lions are the best example of what NFL play has become. They're at .500 right now, and they could easily be 5-0 or 0-5 with just 1-2 different calls in each game. Having watched all of their games (and dozens and dozens of other teams games as well) to this point, I still have no clue if they are a good football team, a bad football team, or a mediocre football team....I don't even know what I'm watching.

It seems like 75% of games every week are within the range of being decided by referee decisions, which are anything but consistent and reliable, so that it practically feels like watching a 4-hour extended coin flip at this point.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Jstraub

Yeah but... Maybe Flowers should develop a pass rush move that doesn't involve keeping his hand inches from the opponents neck and facemask. He was flagged on a crucial 3rd down earlier in the 4th quarter, THEN kept doing the same move. Look I get the second penalty was a bad call but players continually refuse to take responsibility for their actions. If Flowers cant stop forcefully jamming his hands in or near the opponent's face, maybe he should find a different career.

Also, I wonder what team drafted Flowers and taught him this "borderline" technique?

Jamming the hands "near the opponent's face" is not a penalty, he had literally never been called for that once in his NFL career before the 4th quarter last night, David Bakhtiari was actually holding his facemask on the first one and you can see the LG with blatant hands to the face of a different Lions DL on the second one, but sure, do you.

[bbgunn]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

So is anyone paying attention to the XFL draft?

No?

Alright then.

XF-What?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

So is anyone paying attention to the XFL draft?
No? Alright then.

I noticed that the can't-slide-fast-enough QB that used to play for Ole Miss got assigned to a team (St.Louis maybe?).

Does that count?

[bhlloy]

So a couple of really head scratching trades for talented DBs this season then, in terms of timing rather than the talent or even necessarily the return.

I think I might prefer the Steelers picking up Fitzpatrick over the Rams picking up Ramsey, given the fact that the difference between Ramsey and Peters (even in the Rams scheme) isn't fixing the offensive line or the fact that Goff looks mediocre 50% of the time, and the contract they will have to give him now and the lack of draft picks in the next couple of drafts means they really aren't going to be able to address any of these issues. The Rams were already a very top heavy team, this just makes the issue a million times worse, and given they've already gambled and lost on being able to keep the same offensive standard with mid round picks filling in on the interior line, I'm not sure this was the time to upgrade at corner, even if you are getting a legit top 3 player.

[BishopMVP]

Yeah, at least with the Steelers they have multiple years of cheap control before needing to pay market value.

Just how good is Ramsey anyways? Is he a top 3 guy, or a top 20 guy? I confess I haven't seen a ton of Jaguars football since the Patriots broke them.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Ramsey is very, very good. I'm with most that it's a head-scratcher of a move for where they are as a franchise, but Ramsey is definitely an incredible CB (top 3 for sure).

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

As a Lions fan, I can even pull some disgruntlement out of the fact that the narrative around this game is "Did the refs help Green Bay win *this* particular game?" rather than "Did the refs help the Lions to *another* ridiculous loss.

I'm sure to plenty of folks that sounds like sour grapes whining, but let's consider some recent Lions losses:

Sept. 13, 2010 - The original 'Calvin Johnson Rule'

Nov. 22, 2012 - The one where Forsett was down on an incorrectly ruled touchdown, but the mandatory replay is somehow negated by Jim Schwarts challenging the play.

Jan. 4, 2015 - The one where the refs just picked up a PI flag against the Cowboys and didn't bother to explain.

Oct. 5, 2015 - The one where Seattle wins by intentionally and illegally batting the ball out of the endzone.

Dec. 3, 2015 - The Packers Hail Mary which (constantly gets replayed as a highlight but) was only possible because of a phantom hands to the face call against the Lions that extended the game past :00.

Sept. 24, 2017 - Lions are ruled to have scored a touchdown in the last seconds of a game against the Falcons, but replay results in a questionable overturn that also necessitates a 10-second run off, ending the game.

Oct. 14, 2019 - Last night

That's seven 'signature' losses by just plain poor refereeing over 8 1/2 seasons. A couple of those years the Lions missed the playoffs by just a game. Like I said, I'm sure that all sounds like typical sports fan sour grapes, but I'm not so much trying to convince anyone else that the Lions are perpetual victims so much as I'm publicly wondering why I continue to watch this shit?

Lmao... I remember almost all of those.

Sorry for your pain.

[stevew]

I dunno if I’d blame the Schwartz boner on the refs. He clearly fucked that up more than the ref who missed it/or didn’t stop the play because it was auto-reviewable.

[Swiso]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

This. Goff is showing that he's not quite as polished as he was before. Definitely somewhere in between the rookie Goff and the on point Goff of last year.

The poor pass pro performance of the line, the loss/ineffectiveness of Gurley, and McVay's seeming desire to throw at all costs have put a lot of pressure on Goff to perform, and it seems like he is actually (at this point in his career) not ready to shoulder that kind of load.

The Rams started the game by ramming the ball down the Niners' throats. They couldn't do anything about it. For some reason, McVay stopped doing that and went to throwing almost exclusively.

This is the reason why the Rams "stopped doing that" :
49ers Playbook: Week 6 49ers vs Rams Film Review: Run defense adjustments - YouTube

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

So a couple of really head scratching trades for talented DBs this season then, in terms of timing rather than the talent or even necessarily the return.

I think I might prefer the Steelers picking up Fitzpatrick over the Rams picking up Ramsey, given the fact that the difference between Ramsey and Peters (even in the Rams scheme) isn't fixing the offensive line or the fact that Goff looks mediocre 50% of the time, and the contract they will have to give him now and the lack of draft picks in the next couple of drafts means they really aren't going to be able to address any of these issues. The Rams were already a very top heavy team, this just makes the issue a million times worse, and given they've already gambled and lost on being able to keep the same offensive standard with mid round picks filling in on the interior line, I'm not sure this was the time to upgrade at corner, even if you are getting a legit top 3 player.

Down for this. Rams are back as the #1 most interesting petri dish. You have to take this as a full commitment that: Building through the draft is too risky and unpredictable, the smart play is to lock up top tier guys even if you have to pay "full price" as the market isn't properly reflecting the value of true superstars.

Now, RB is a position that might prove to be their undoing - their Gurley contract looks awful now. And the Goff contract looks like a panic move- exactly what they shouldn't be doing under this philosophy. But it does feel, to me, like they still have a core idea that isn't that bad. So many draft picks really do go kaput, even for the "smartest" drafting teams, you may well be better off exerting your capital in proven commodities.

But another team, taking this model and locking up a top-tier LT, WR, CB, and Edge rusher, and building around that with value pieces in lots of areas, but relying less on draft picks than most? It does seem like a viable option.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Down for this. Rams are back as the #1 most interesting petri dish. You have to take this as a full commitment that: Building through the draft is too risky and unpredictable, the smart play is to lock up top tier guys even if you have to pay "full price" as the market isn't properly reflecting the value of true superstars.

Now, RB is a position that might prove to be their undoing - their Gurley contract looks awful now. And the Goff contract looks like a panic move- exactly what they shouldn't be doing under this philosophy. But it does feel, to me, like they still have a core idea that isn't that bad. So many draft picks really do go kaput, even for the "smartest" drafting teams, you may well be better off exerting your capital in proven commodities.

But another team, taking this model and locking up a top-tier LT, WR, CB, and Edge rusher, and building around that with value pieces in lots of areas, but relying less on draft picks than most? It does seem like a viable option.

See I think what makes it most interesting is the fact that so far this season the Rams are kinda doing a good job arguing against the situation you’ve described - the lack of depth due to missing high draft picks and the inability to sign good free agents on the offensive line have really tanked them as a team.

And I know your point was the Rams haven’t invested that money wisely (and the OL they have spent on just haven’t been that good - they are a completely different team if the two OT play at the level they did last year) but it’s a fascinating thing to compare them to the Colts, who got just about the biggest gut punch a team could get right before the season but are 3-2 and in a better position arguably than the Rams to make the playoffs based on really valuing and hitting on their draft picks on the OL and defense for the past few years.

[albionmoonlight]

Brock Osweiler Retiring From NFL | NFLTradeRumors.co

[Arles]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Pretty obviously bad and it's obvious that some of the Packer diehards can't even admit it.

Both hands to the face calls were game changing. Yet we hear "he shouldn't have made it close" instead of, yeah the refs screwed up.

As a Packer Fan, we certainly got the benefit of two bad hands to the face calls. Would the Lions have won without them? We don't know, but it did help GB win.

How about the no call on pass interference that wasn't even a 50/50 call but obvious?

I don't even know what pass interference is anymore, but that looked like it. Of course, the Eagles appeared to interfere on the last pick of the game and that wasn't reviewed against us. These types of calls balance out over time. But the Lions had the option to challenge and decided against it. So, clearly they didn't think it was that egregious.

How about the touchdown that was actually down at the 1? How did they not overturn that on review?

This has been dissected on twitter because of a screen shot. What it didn't show was the ball still moving when his knee was down. He didn't have full control until he rolled into the end zone. That appeared to be the right call

How about the hands to the face by the Packers d-lineman that was obvious and the ref was right there looking at it?

I'm guessing a dozen of these happen a game and it's just whether it is seen by the ref. For the two Flowers calls, he was right in-line with Rodgers so it was easier for the ref watching the QB to see. This is like offensive holding - you can call or not call it on many plays. It's just a matter of if it is seen.

13 men?

Green Bay called timeout before the ref had done his count on the defensive players. A normal defensive play is different than a punt as once the LS touches the ball, it can be called. There are numerous times where a defense runs off their last guy seconds before the snap and it is OK. Detroit *could* have called timeout when GB was running out their special teams players and avoided the penalty (like GB did on the defensive play). The difference is Detroit didn't ask for a timeout by the time the snapper got to the ball (compared to four players and two coaches asking for TO when the Lions center got over the ball to snap).

I know several Packers fans who have basically said "yeah, we got the breaks... but also the win." To them I say, bravo.

I think it's clear we got the breaks on the two hands to the face and the PI call. But I don't know they got as many breaks as the internet has said since Monday. Remember, they got hosed on a key phantom holding call against OG Jenkins that killed a drive and I still haven't seen a view where Johnson got in on the 4th down play (where 2/3 officials signaled he was stopped). In balance, Green Bay got some lucky calls - but it's not like they got 7 calls and the Lions didn't get any. I'd say GB got 3-4 fortunate calls and the Lions got 2. It just happens the hands to the face calls were in key spots and late.

Still, I'll take the win and feel fortunate to beat a Lions team that outplayed GB for much of the first half. I also think the Lions fans are justified to complain about the refs in that game, those two late calls were critical misses.