Mixed Martial Arts Thread (UFC and others)

[DeToxRox]

Say what you want about wrestling, but the model is money every time.

Evil champion everyone hates dominates until some big hero comes along to knock him off.

In this instance it's very possible that savior is Fedor because at this point he is the only one who will beat Brock and it'll draw a huge buy.

Also on the topic of 100, how dead is this crowd for the Fitch fight? Obviously it's understandable, but I guess it's good for them they got on the show at least.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Also on the topic of 100, how dead is this crowd for the Fitch fight? Obviously it's understandable, but I guess it's good for them they got on the show at least.

It sounds like they are in an empty arena it's so quiet.

[DeToxRox]

I am assuming Carwin beats Cain at 104 and we get Brock vs Carwin at 107 or 108. Carwin at this point is the best guy under contract who can take Brock, but I really want Cro Cop vs Brock to see Brock just kill him. Absolutely destroy him.

[EagleFan]

I didn't pick up on that before the fight started. I had just assumed this was a replay of an undercard.

[EagleFan]

They're not showing the undercards? That sucks.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

They're not showing the undercards? That sucks.

This one went the distance. Lawlor's fight I need to see. Apparently he came to the ring pulling Seth Petruzlli (hes training partner) with a dog chain and a bone in his mouth, all to the song "Who Let the Dogs Out".

Then he proceeds to choke his opponent unconscious in 50 seconds.

[Neon_Chaos]

Brock knows how to sell fights. Now even more people are going to pay $$$ to watch someone try and beat him.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

This one went the distance. Lawlor's fight I need to see. Apparently he came to the ring pulling Seth Petruzlli (hes training partner) with a dog chain and a bone in his mouth, all to the song "Who Let the Dogs Out".

Then he proceeds to choke his opponent unconscious in 50 seconds.

Kind of sucks though. Some of the better fights that I remember seeing have been the undercard replays after some of these main events.

[Schmidty]

Hmm. That kind of sucks that Brock wants to be a villain. It also sucks that I have no one to watch these things with, and sure as hell not going to pay for just me.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Say what you want about wrestling, but the model is money every time.

+1

[MrDNA]

Dang, wanted to see Jonny 'Bones' Jones stay undefeated. Anyone know if the UFC puts unaired undercards online anymore?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Hmm. That kind of sucks that Brock wants to be a villain. It also sucks that I have no one to watch these things with, and sure as hell not going to pay for just me.

agreed on the second point

[SirFozzie]

apparently the sherdogcrying over Brock winning is even more epic then when he beat Randy

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

apparently the sherdogcrying over Brock winning is even more epic then when he beat Randy

What the fuck is a "sherdog"? Some lame internet losers group?

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

What the fuck is a "sherdog"? Some lame internet losers group?

It's the largest MMA discussion forum.

For example:

That's enough mr White - Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums

[SirFozzie]

Dola:

In comparison, I know Henderson was provoked, but I'd rather have a fighter celebrate and flip off a booing crowd then hitting a defenseless fighter (AND HE KNEW he was out), to make a statement on what he thought of him

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

It's the largest MMA discussion forum.

For example:

That's enough mr White - Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums

I know FOFC is kind of like that, but FOF is all about numbers, not analysis by a sport in which people that probably got wedgies all throughout middle and high school are "experts".

[DeToxRox]

[k0ruptr]

meh, hes alive. Bisping is a douche.

[SirFozzie]

dude, douche or not, you DON'T hit a defenseless guy when he's out. He knew he was out, knew the ref was stopping it, pausedand threw the elbow anyway. That's not MMA, that's not competition, that's assault.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Brock knows how to sell fights. Now even more people are going to pay $$$ to watch someone try and beat him.

He definitely got some WWE type heel heat at the end of the match. He was impressive, but I think he could be a bit more classy in victory, Mir was nothing but complimentary and Lesner still acted like a dick. I know Dana probably loves it and there is no real danger of anyone on the current roster beating right now so they can churn some bucks out of it. God I wish Fedor would sign for just one fight with UFC and take on Lesner.

I like Hendo, but him saying he landed that last punch to really shut him (Bisping) up was bush! Dana prods the coaches into developing animosity because it sells and Bisping even admitted as much. There was no reason in the world to try and drive his head through the mat when it was clear he was out. No matter what went on during TUF, that was totally classless. That was a helluva right hand that ended it though, Damn!

Thiago Alves is one tough dude. GSP put on a clinic, but the kid is strong and hung in there. Extra kudos to George for fighting two rounds with a groin injury as well and never letting on while the fight was still going.

[DeToxRox]

Here is Dana's wet dream right now:

Brock destroys Carwin, Randy beats Nog.

Brock vs Randy II.

UFC's biggest heel vs UFC's biggest face.

Brock would obviously win but who in the hell wouldn't pay to see Randy knock off the biggest ass in UFC?

And keep in mind I love Brock but hell I'd probably root for Randy.

[RainMaker]

Face or heel, UFC just needs a dominant champion. Lesnar really looked like that guy tonight. The problem with UFC has been that once they built a guy up, he loses. They really need Lesnar to stay on top for over a year to push the sport to the next stage.

Question about the PPV. Why don't they show the early matches? Just seems like that would be a great way to give the fans some more for their money.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Here is Dana's wet dream right now:

Brock destroys Carwin, Randy beats Nog.

Brock vs Randy II.

UFC's biggest heel vs UFC's biggest face.

Brock would obviously win but who in the hell wouldn't pay to see Randy knock off the biggest ass in UFC?

And keep in mind I love Brock but hell I'd probably root for Randy.

That's a Rocky vs Drago type matchup. I think one of the interesting elements of Lesnar is that he gets a lot of heat for being a former WWE guy. When he fights a strictly MMA guy, it makes for a nice back and forth between fans.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That's a Rocky vs Drago type matchup. I think one of the interesting elements of Lesnar is that he gets a lot of heat for being a former WWE guy. When he fights a strictly MMA guy, it makes for a nice back and forth between fans.

In the end though I am pretty sure it's resemble Drago vs Creed.

[k0ruptr]

no, your right he shouldn't of hit him while he was out, but I'm not sure he knew the ref was stopping him, seeing as the ref was behind him...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

That's not MMA, that's not competition, that's assault.

And if Dana is smart, he'll review the tape & issue at least a token fine/suspension. If he doesn't, he'll put a little chink in the credibility armor he's been working.
on.

edit to add: He'll also bring into question how much policing of himself he should be allowed to do versus stricter controls from commissions. Don't want that little snippet being part of a lowlight reel at a Congressional hearing down the road.

[Flasch186]

video from lesnar's press conference with his apology:

UFC 100: Lesnar and St-Pierre Post Fight PC - Yahoo! Sports

[Calis]

Honestly I think it's a pretty bad move if Dana fines/suspends Hendo. You're walking down a slippery slope there. This isn't like Babalue or Penn holding a choke while the ref is trying to pull them off, the ref hadn't stopped it and Henderson landed another punch, we see this pretty often.

I don't see how you can punish a fighter for that, the fight was still going. He stopped when the ref stopped it.

Of course saying what he said after it wasn't a smart move and makes things look pretty shady, but I still don't think a punishment really makes sense.

[Oilers9911]

Henderson admitted that he knew he was out and gave him and extra shot regardless. You could kill a guy like that. I thought Henderson was better than that. GSP is just destroying anyone he comes up against. If he isn't P4P #1 he has to be pretty damn close.

[PilotMan]

We see it all the time in MMA. One shot is way less then we see sometime. It happens. It was sweet too.

[PilotMan]

dola

I love Lesnar. He's like the Darth Vader of MMA. A big, bad guy, who isn't afraid of anyone, and kicks ass.

I have always liked him though. I can't hate a fellow guy from the great plains.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

dola

I love Lesnar. He's like the Darth Vader of MMA. A big, bad guy, who isn't afraid of anyone, and kicks ass.

I have always liked him though. I can't hate a fellow guy from the great plains.

I wasn't too fond of him after that post fight tirade, but watching the press conference softens that a little. He obviously fights with a lot of emotion, but it is something he probably needs to control better. I did laugh at his line about Bud light too.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

We see it all the time in MMA. One shot is way less then we see sometime. It happens. It was sweet too.

That's bull. You see it when a guy isn't sure the other guy is finished. Hendo knew Bisping was out cold. That was a bush league cheap shot.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

That's bull. You see it when a guy isn't sure the other guy is finished. Hendo knew Bisping was out cold. That was a bush league cheap shot.

Totally cheap and he as much as admitted it. He was also getting ready to unleash another when the Ref pulled him off. Sorry Henderson has no defense for an action that could have seriously hurt Bisping, like him or not as a person in the cage it should be about sportmanship and honor. Anf Henderson of all people should know better.

[PilotMan]

Bisping should've kept his mouth in check a little better. Shit happens.

[PilotMan]

Fantastic editorial about Lesnar, Henderson and MMA fans in general. The hit Henderson laid out was still legal, btw.

Lesnar backlash brims with double standards - UFC - Yahoo! Sports

There have been 61 fighters in Ultimate Fighting Championship history whio were pro wrestlers at one point or another. There are nine on the current UFC roster. Of the six fighters in the UFC Hall of Fame, three – Ken Shamrock, Dan Severn and Mark Coleman – dabbled in wrestling.

But UFC heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar is the only one vilified for it.

It would be easy to say that the attitude Lesnar has displayed – and not his former profession – would be the reason for crowds’ reaction to him in his short UFC career. It would be easy to blame his actions in the cage after he beat Frank Mir at UFC 100 for the reaction of the crowd, fellow fighters and media afterward. Except it wouldn’t be entirely true.

When Lesnar stepped out of the dressing room for his first match with Mir in February 2008, no debuting fighter in UFC history was ever so heavily booed. At that point, he had done nothing to be judged on in his UFC career – except that in his two previous careers, as a college wrestler for the University of Minnesota and as a pro wrestler for World Wrestling Entertainment, he had risen to the top.

The reaction was entirely based on the fact that he was a pro wrestler coming into the UFC. The reaction came from a fan base that judged him as somehow different from the pro wrestlers who came before him into UFC.

Of course, none of the former pro wrestlers came into the company with so much publicity and such a rich contract. None walked in with the sort of name value and curiosity which led to what was, at the time, among the most purchased pay-per-view shows in company history.

This is not a defense of anything he did after the fight. But the reaction to Lesnar’s postfight comments and his flipping the bird at fans is just the latest example of a double standard Lesnar has faced in his MMA career.

What if the Lesnar and Dan Henderson fights and postfights on Saturday night were transposed? If Lesnar had thrown that totally legal but devastating second blow on an already knocked-out foe – and remarked in his interview that he was doing it to shut Mir’s mouth – people would have spent the past week demanding that he be banned from the sport. And would Henderson have gotten nearly Lesnar’s heat if he had pulled the same postfight antics as Lesnar?

You want to deny there’s a double standard here?

As Georges St. Pierre continually took down Thiago Alves in their welterweight title fight, the crowd cheered every takedown. Even when St. Pierre wasn’t doing damage on the ground, he was being cheered wildly the entire fight.

In round two, as Lesnar had Mir on the ground and was punching his face in less than 30 seconds before the fight was over, there was a loud chant aimed at referee Herb Dean of “stand them up.”

This was a first in UFC history. Not the chant itself, but it being done when a fighter was pummeling the other and actually seconds away from winning. It was the first time a crowd hated a fighter so much that they were willing to pervert the entire framework of what the sport is supposed to be – that a fighter should do what he can to finish a fight – simply because they wanted that fighter to lose so badly.

Of all the pro wrestlers who have come into the sport, only two – Lesnar and non-UFC fighter Bobby Lashley – have ever been disrespected by fellow fighters for being a pro wrestler. In Lesnar’s four UFC fights, only one opponent didn’t throw some kind of variation on “It’s not the WWE,” at him before the fight. In hyping the match, Mir implied Lesnar was strong but clueless when it came to fighting. Heath Herring and his camp had complained behind-the-scenes to company officials that it was a joke he was even put in the ring with a fake pro wrestler, and made public comments about how the punches were going to be real.

The only opponent who didn’t disrespect Lesnar before the fight was Couture. The only opponent Lesnar didn’t trash talk afterward was Couture. Coincidence?

And Mir probably won’t be the last, given the fact that his potential next opponent, Shane Carwin, already has played the pro-wrestling card in starting the hype.

“We have no scripts in this port, no predetermined earning amount and no predetermined outcomes,” Carwin said.

Saturday night’s perfect storm was a moment that will be remembered in the sport’s history. It marked the first time that a UFC fighter was the single most talked-about sports personality in the world, as pundits who spent years hyping the likes of Barry Bonds and Randy Moss suddenly found their moral compass and badmouthed Lesnar.

Lesnar never asked to become the biggest villain the sport has ever seen, but he’s also smart enough and experienced enough at it that he knows it’s not all a bad thing. While running down Bud Light – UFC’s leading sponsor – was not the best of judgment, he’s turned out to be one of the greatest things for building the popularity of the sport.

Just as tennis had John McEnroe and Jimmy Connors, and boxing had Muhammad Ali, and football has Terrell Owens, it is good for the sport to have a great villain. You don’t want a sport where everyone is like him; but when push comes to shove, Lesnar is great for the sport, just as St. Pierre is in a very different way.

The duality of the reaction of the crowds, in comparing the reactions to what Lesnar and Henderson said, and how Lesnar and St. Pierre formulated their winning game plans, says something pretty significant about the sport and its fan base.

The history of fights which have garnered the most interest and drawn the most money in UFC history, matches built by inflammatory interviews fashioned out of pro wrestling, are what made the sport and saved the sport. The examples are endless – from Tito Ortiz’s grudge with Ken Shamrock, to Couture spanking Ortiz at the end of their match, to Quinton Jackson and Rashad Evans nearly coming to blows in the crowd. It’s a lesson very much worth examining for anyone arguing about what is good or bad for the future of the sport.

[Oilers9911]

Legal but unnecessary and really dangerous.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

The hit Henderson laid out was still legal, btw. [/url]

May have been, I'm not even going to try to play expert lawyer on the fine points of MMA rules. But it leaves me hoping the next person who fights Henderson puts him out of business for a year or two with some karmic payback. He's got zero class afaic & is apparently dumb as a brick as his actions represented a decent relatively high profile argument for the folks who'd like to see MMA banned altogether.

Lesnar -- who is a guy I didn't like in the wrestling ring at all & I'm not at all predisposed to care much for because of it -- is on pretty much the opposite end of the spectrum to me, a guy who is smart enough to know how to play the game part of business while showing me a lot of work ethic & doing things the right way in the ring.

[sovereignstar]

Sweet, I can finally post in this thread now! I've been a pretty hardcore MMA fan since I got newsgroup access last August. Watch every major show the day after it happens, including the Japanese promotions. Recently, someone upped the first 99 UFC shows, so I've got that to look forward to as I've seen nothing but little bits here and there before UFC 83.

The biggest problem with Henderson's late blow is the stupid stuff he said after it. It was classless and proves that he isn't all that bright. We've all seen late blows before and I think most are pretty lenient because it's in the heat of battle, but to say that you just wanted to shut him up? I'll be rooting against the clown until he retires for that.

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Bisping should've kept his mouth in check a little better. Shit happens.

First time anyone has talked trash. Ever. Right?

[Travis]

Re: Bisping. This has been an ongoing thing with him. I really liked how he fought when he was on TUF, but as he had more and more "success" (really thought he lost the Hamill fight) I switched from cheering for him to hoping that each and every guy he came up against would just stomp the octagon with him to reset him (hopefully) and refocus him. His mouth outweighed anything he had done in the ring and it just seemed more and more that he went from being a true underdog on TUF to lording over anybody who'd listen to him that he was the next (if not current) greatest thing because he'd reeled off a few consecutive wins.

Now I certainly wasn't wishing the second Hendo shot on him, but I think the KO might be the best thing to happen to him as it should be a shot of reality that he really needed. He was believing his own press a bit (okay, a lot) too much and hopefully this will be the adversity he needs to reasses his training/learning/etc and become the best figher he can be.

Yes he deserved to be put in his place, but not to the extent Hendo went. I'm expecting a fine (rather than a suspension) if anything happens to him at all though.

[Calis]

No way will there even be a fine. There was nothing illegal done. You can say Henderson is classless and an asshole or whatever, but going by actions he did nothing illegal. They're supposed to keep fighting until the ref stops. There's been plenty of flash knockdowns where the guy pops back up, so I never fault anyone for keeping going until they stop. If he'd thrown the ref off to throw another shot than I'd be all for suspension or whatever.

You can't fault his actions during the fight, you can only fault what he said after. I imagine he's got a good talk from Dana about how stupid that was, but there won't be a fine. Hell he got a nice 100k bonus for the fight.

[DeToxRox]

Rumor is Tito vs Franklin to headline 103. I hope Franklin knocks him the fuck out and then they cut right to Dana who has a shit eating grin on.

[DeToxRox]

Dola,this all stems from Dana and Tito's twitter basically insinuating they have made up and Tito said he might be coming back soon.

[dervack]

All the outrage in this thread over Hendo, but does everyone forget about the 3 extra punches that Rampage threw while Silva was knocked out on the ground? Not one post in this thread on that. At least none that the search brought up.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by dervack

All the outrage in this thread over Hendo, but does everyone forget about the 3 extra punches that Rampage threw while Silva was knocked out on the ground? Not one post in this thread on that. At least none that the search brought up.

In think the outrage is that he all but admits it was intentional and really didn't seem to care if he had seriously hurt Bisping. He paused before he threw it too, long enough to see he was out.

Rampage should have known as well, but at least he didn't come off as sounding like he wanted to hurt Silva afterwards.

[dervack]

Maybe. But Jackson threw 2 shots at Silva, after the ref was stopping him.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by dervack

Maybe. But Jackson threw 2 shots at Silva, after the ref was stopping him.

True, I think both guys should have seen their opponents were done, but in the heat of battle adrenaline cantake over. I won't really say there is a difference, exceot Hendo's comments. Plus I don't really think people would expect that from him, where Jackson is more prone to act like that in most peoples minds.

There is really no way to avoid an extra blow here and there, but it would have probably blown over without the comments.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

True, I think both guys should have seen their opponents were done, but in the heat of battle adrenaline cantake over. I won't really say there is a difference, exceot Hendo's comments. Plus I don't really think people would expect that from him, where Jackson is more prone to act like that in most peoples minds.

There is really no way to avoid an extra blow here and there, but it would have probably blown over without the comments.

Just wow, I don't know where to begin with that mess. The correct answer is:

in the heat of battle adrenaline cantake over.

End of story. Comments or not. Fight until the ref stops it.

Jackson is more prone to act like that in most peoples minds.

And that is justification for saying that Hendo was out of line? I hear you, honestly. But you can't have it both ways.