The Thread of the 2009-2010 NBA Season - Page 17

DeToxRox · 02-02-2010, 06:22 PM

Pistons vs Nets tonight.

So yeah, avoid.

DaddyTorgo · 02-02-2010, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

It looks like Paul Pierce may have a broken foot.....

thought i heard on the news that he said he was okay

TroyF · 02-02-2010, 06:27 PM

Aldridge reporting broken foot, official announcement tomorrow.

molson · 02-02-2010, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

thought i heard on the news that he said he was okay

That was the thought after the game, but before the x-rays, apparently.

I should have posted this link:

Pierce's injury appears serious - Celtics Blog - Boston.com

sterlingice · 02-02-2010, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groundhog

And so begins the Bill Walker era.

As in Bill Walker from K-State?

SI

DaddyTorgo · 02-02-2010, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

As in Bill Walker from K-State?

SI

yes

Arles · 02-03-2010, 09:42 AM

As someone who has watched the Suns this season, Amare is extremely overrated. He has lost a ton of explosiveness after his knee injury and most of his baskets are wide open jumpers or 5-foot post shots created by Nash off the dribble. He can't rebound (esp on defense), can't defend and is basically a decent one-dimensional offensive player. Here's some numbers on his 5 prior games before the 36-point effort against Houston:
1 - 5
1 - 5
5 - 5
3 - 5
5 - 1

The first number is turnovers and the second is rebounds. So, for a 5 game stretch, 6-10 center and "max player Amare" pitched in 21 rebounds and 15 turnovers. Sure, he'll have that 36-12 game that makes everyone "wow" from time to time, but he has a lot more 19 points, 5 rebounds, 3 turnover, 5 foul games that kill you.

As to scoring, Robin Lopez is coming off back to back 18 and 14 point games - and the guy can't hit a shot outside of 3 feet. Nash creates a ton of open looks and is great on the pick and roll, you put Amare in a traditional offense and he will have more turnovers, a lower shooting percentage and less overall value than on the Suns. I think he's fool's gold for the next contract and I'm hoping the Suns find a way to trade him for 50 cents on the dollar.

TroyF · 02-03-2010, 10:36 AM

I don't know why everyone is trying to convince me Amare is a pile of dog crap.

I DO NOT THINK HE WILL EVERY BE THE BEST PLAYER ON A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM. I get it.

Do I think he could be someone that puts a contending team over the top? Yeah, I do.

I know you list the five game stretch there. That's nice and all. I could point to a 6 game stretch earlier in the year where he averaged over 25 points on 17 shot attempts and along with 12.3 rebounds a game. (yes, even then, his turnovers were high)

Why did he have those five garbage games you mentioned? Isn't it obvious to everyone in Phoenix that the guy doesn't want to be there and has checked out? Someone obviously went down and told him to keep his mouth shut and that he'd be traded and he's went off for a few games. If the deadline passes and he's still there, you'll have a dog with fleas the rest of the year.

Look, I know he's not Lebron, Kobe, Howard or CP3.

But are you going to make the case and tell me he's worse than Lemarcus Aldridge?

Please. . .

Arles · 02-03-2010, 10:50 AM

My point was that if someone signs him to a max contract, they will probably regret it. But that's the case for about 85% of the NBA players out there. If you could get Amare for about $10 million a year, I think his offense is worth the downside. At the end of the day, he's a quality player - just not one I would want signed to a max deal given his:

A. Limited impact (only offensively)
B. History of major injuries
C. History of motivational issues

It took Amare 6 games to realize that he has an opportunity to go to another team for a max contract - then he put up 36 and 25 points in the last two. What do you think his motivation would be on New Jersey or Philly next season after signing a 5-year Max deal on a marginal team? He'll get his points, but will be a disaster when it comes to turnovers, defense and rebounding. I just don't see the appeal to a contending team and, given the offers the Suns have gotten from contending teams, they seem to agree.

TroyF · 02-03-2010, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arles

My point was that if someone signs him to a max contract, they will probably regret it. But that's the case for about 85% of the NBA players out there. If you could get Amare for about $10 million a year, I think his offense is worth the downside. At the end of the day, he's a quality player - just not one I would want signed to a max deal given his:

A. Limited impact (only offensively)
B. History of major injuries
C. History of motivational issues

It took Amare 6 games to realize that he has an opportunity to go to another team for a max contract - then he put up 36 and 25 points in the last two. What do you think his motivation would be on New Jersey or Philly next season after signing a 5-year Max deal on a marginal team? He'll get his points, but will be a disaster when it comes to turnovers, defense and rebounding. I just don't see the appeal to a contending team and, given the offers the Suns have gotten from contending teams, they seem to agree.

I feel like I'm repeating myself here, so here goes:

1) He's not a max contract player.

2) He WILL get max contract money.

3) If you are a contending team and you think he's the piece to put you over the top, you have to make the move. You simply have to.

4) If the contending teams decide he isn't the piece to put them over the top, Amare will sign the max for a bad team and put up 30 points a night and put fans in the seats. Outside of those two functions, he'll be useless and will not help said team to glory.

5) Teams aren't offering the Suns crap because they know they don't have to. The Suns want to dump salary. The least kept secret in basketball. Everyone on the team save Nash could be had if you just gave them enough expiring contracts. The Suns aren't going to get a great trade offer for Amare. They can either sell him at .10 on the dollar or keep him and pray to God he doesn't decide to use his player option to make 16 million next year. Any NBA fan should know by now that outside of the rare salary for salary trade, NBA trades have little to do with talent and a ton to do with luxury tax and money issues.

Fidatelo · 02-03-2010, 12:13 PM

I can't see Amare exercising that option, because this will be the last chance for players to sign deals under the existing CBA, right? I'm pretty sure I'd want to get a long-term contract under this CBA as opposed to whatever Stern has them sucking on with the next one...

TroyF · 02-03-2010, 01:12 PM

That and he hates Phoenix right now. . .

The problem is if he scans the league and sees nothing he likes. We thought the same about Boozer last year and he came back. It put the Jazz in a huge bind this year. (they are playing good anyway, but are going to have to pay a heavy tax and had to let go of some good players because Boozer did what he did)

In this market, 16 million is a ton of cabbage. Amare could be a dog with fleas for 16 mil

JPhillips · 02-03-2010, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arles

My point was that if someone signs him to a max contract, they will probably regret it. But that's the case for about 85% of the NBA players out there. If you could get Amare for about $10 million a year, I think his offense is worth the downside. At the end of the day, he's a quality player - just not one I would want signed to a max deal given his:

A. Limited impact (only offensively)
B. History of major injuries
C. History of motivational issues

It took Amare 6 games to realize that he has an opportunity to go to another team for a max contract - then he put up 36 and 25 points in the last two. What do you think his motivation would be on New Jersey or Philly next season after signing a 5-year Max deal on a marginal team? He'll get his points, but will be a disaster when it comes to turnovers, defense and rebounding. I just don't see the appeal to a contending team and, given the offers the Suns have gotten from contending teams, they seem to agree.

The hardest decision for an NBA GM is whether or not to sign very good players to great player contracts. Eventually the player won't be worth the money and the contract will keep the team from adding complimentary pieces, but the player is also irreplaceable, at least in the short term and may cause the team to sink to the point where you lose your job.

stevew · 02-03-2010, 01:32 PM

Ok. Here is the hypothetical. You have to go after a big man this offsesson.

Amar'e or David Lee. Both should be free agents.

MikeVic · 02-03-2010, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Ok. Here is the hypothetical. You have to go after a big man this offsesson.

Amar'e or David Lee. Both should be free agents.

Think they'll both go for max?

jbergey22 · 02-03-2010, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Think they'll both go for max?

Any other year yes. It will be interesting to see how much money is available this year.

RainMaker · 02-03-2010, 02:03 PM

I go with Lee because he's a better rebounder and passer. Just think an offense will flow better with him. Although I wouldn't go for him unless I had a bonafied shot blocker at Center.

TroyF · 02-03-2010, 02:44 PM

All things being equal, I go with Lee. Better overall player.

But in the NBA, it's putting your team together like a puzzle. If you need a secondary scorer, Stoudamire is better than Lee. Stoudamire faces more doubles, gets to the line a lot more (343 to 190 this year) and Amare is a MUCH better jump shooter (47.2 effective FG% on jumpers compared to just 42.4% for Lee)

Lee is actually a slighly worse defensive player than Amare if you can believe that. On the other side, Lee is a much better rebounder and passer of the ball.

What Amare has on Lee is 2007/2008 season. 25 points, 9 boards on 59% shooting.

Take the 25 points on 59% shooting. You know how many players have done that in the last decade? That'd be one.

Let's go 25 points on 50%+ shooting. You have Shaq (3 times), Karl Malone (1), Tim Duncan (1) and Amare (2)

He's still just 27 years old and if he has a miracle health streak (don't laugh, Camby has been healthier, it can happen), he still has 4 to 5 years of all star level basketball left.

Lee doesn't have that in his background. That's why he'll make less, even if he's a better overall player. (BTW: if Amare stayed healthy and got motivated, this wouldn't be a debate, he'd be one of the top 10 players in the game, easily, it's that damned motivation thing. . . )

RainMaker · 02-03-2010, 03:11 PM

I agree that it depends on the team. For instance, I'd rather the Bulls get Amare because we have Noah who cleans up the boards and gets blocks.

I guess the issue is that if you can't motivate him in a contract year, how will anyone be able to motivate him when he signs a huge guaranteed contract?

TroyF · 02-03-2010, 06:06 PM

It isn't a contract year though. He's getting 16 million next year if he stands at center court and picks his nose all year.

He isn't happy in Phoenix. He wanted to be shipped out before the season. He's still not happy in Phoenix. Why? I have no idea. This is one of those cases where if he continues to pout and put up garbage efforts for the team that signs him next, everyone will scream I TOLD YOU SO MORONS.

If he gets motivated and puts up a couple of years of all star play, the other side will say I TOLD YOU SO MORONS.

I don't think at the end of his next contract, his team won't be lukewarm about him. Either they'll love him or hate him. I can see this going either way. . . but I think if you put a strong enough star around him (Bron, Wade, Kobe, etc.), they'll get the best out of him. If you put him with more of a laid back leadership type of star (Melo, Nash, Durant, Roy) you'll get mixed results.

Arles · 02-03-2010, 11:53 PM

Amare needs a lot of touches to be effective. If a team feeds him the ball a ton, he could average 30. Of course, his shooting % will be lower and he'll have a ton of turnovers. But, that's where he's at his best. In Phoenix, there are nights where they just don't need him because Nash is so good at getting open looks for everyone. Just look at Channing Frye, Robin Lopez and Jared Dudley this season.

Chief Rum · 02-04-2010, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

It isn't a contract year though. He's getting 16 million next year if he stands at center court and picks his nose all year.

He isn't happy in Phoenix. He wanted to be shipped out before the season. He's still not happy in Phoenix. Why? I have no idea. This is one of those cases where if he continues to pout and put up garbage efforts for the team that signs him next, everyone will scream I TOLD YOU SO MORONS.

If he gets motivated and puts up a couple of years of all star play, the other side will say I TOLD YOU SO MORONS.

I don't think at the end of his next contract, his team won't be lukewarm about him. Either they'll love him or hate him. I can see this going either way. . . but I think if you put a strong enough star around him (Bron, Wade, Kobe, etc.), they'll get the best out of him. If you put him with more of a laid back leadership type of star (Melo, Nash, Durant, Roy) you'll get mixed results.

IIRC, Amare has an option to get out of the contract early this summer.

stevew · 02-04-2010, 02:39 AM

This makes my eyes bleed

Amar'e's

Is that the proper grammar for "These are Amar'e's shoes?"

Or does ghetto punctuation cancel out the normal rules of grammar?

whomario · 02-04-2010, 04:21 AM

A´m´a´r´e definitely has a lot of flaws and without a fast paced offense and a good Pick & Roll PG would suffer a lot. He´d still get his 20 points, but on lower efficiency and also more to the detriment of his team as it would disrupt the rythm more.
But still, an athletic 4-man with good size who can score at the basket, hit the midrange jumper and is highly proficient in the most used play in basketball (Pick & Roll), that will attract teams.

I mean, he is a very good player. But he doesn´t offer the most important thing that a really good offensive big man gives a team : Space and getting the defense on their heels. He doesn´t create space for his teammates because he himself needs said space to score.
He doesn´t score repeatedly on the block and draws a double team, he doesn´t post up and allready has the 4 men not guarding him think about doubling and moving closer.
And when he draws a double team he can´t pass out of it efficiently.

This is sth that gets severely underestimated when judging big men, their ability to create space for teammates.

Last night the Jazz had a basketball clinic, the Blazers agreed to attending and serve as scrimmage partners. Shot 63% (70% in the 2nd half)

As i said, the Jazz are rolling right now. Kirilenko is so wasted in an offense when Boozer plays, such a gifted playmaker when he gets a few touches ...

Phoenix and Oklahoma win big games against the Nuggets (no Melo, any news on when he´ll be back ?) and Hornets respectively.

I think it´s safe to assume the Mavs will be thinking about changing sth guarding PGs that get to the paint, Monta Ellis scored 46 on 17-23 shooting (7 TOs, but heck, he has the ball in his hands all the time)

Beaubois continues to impress like everytime he gets playing time. 5 PPG in 10 MPG and shooting 49% on the season, not at all shabby for a rookie PG from abroad.

random quote from Jared Reiner´s blog at draftexpress (unfortunately very irregular, the guy is a good read ) :

on lack of space in airplanes as a tall guy :

Quote:

But seriously, things could be worse: I could have my main man and assistant coach Vitaly Potapenko’s thighs.

You all might remember him from his 12 or so years as a moving refrigerator in the NBA. He seriously is less built for travel than I; he isn’t fat, he is just solid Ukrainian thick.

When I see him crammed in his airplane seat his jeans look like they are going to explode. When he asks people in his thick Eastern European accent, “Cahn you pleaze have the kurtizy of moving for us cuz we owr beeg” people still get scared even though he is well spoken. It is fun to watch people cower in front him, though. The shaved assassin head doesn’t help him much either.

moving refrigerator

Karlifornia · 02-04-2010, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

This makes my eyes bleed

Amar'e's

Is that the proper grammar for "These are Amar'e's shoes?"

Or does ghetto punctuation cancel out the normal rules of grammar?

I'd say your last question pretty obviously answers itself.

Chief Rum · 02-04-2010, 07:24 PM

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THANK YOU!!!

Logan · 02-04-2010, 07:27 PM

Isn't he still the GM?

(I'm making an assumption here)

Chief Rum · 02-04-2010, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

Isn't he still the GM?

(I'm making an assumption here)

You are correct, he is still the GM. And, believe it or not, he's a solid GM. There's a lot of talent on the team right now, and that's because of him. I don't mind him in the front office at all.

But he's just not an impressive coach. It's not that he's bad--there are worse coaches. But he's very, very far from good. Mediocre might be in reach when he's on a good roll, but that's about it. Not a terrific communicator, controls all action on the floor, doesn't let players have much leeway and runs a boring, plodding system neither players nor fans like and which is an awful system to run with this Clips team in particular. Not a good motivator, makes poor in game decisions and his teams seem to go through long strings of inconsistency.

By comparison, new interim head coach Kim Hughes is well liked and respected by the players, and I am hopeful he'll give Baron his head and let the players play at the tempo they are most comfortable with.

stevew · 02-04-2010, 08:05 PM

dumbleavy's out?

Man.

Groundhog · 02-04-2010, 09:26 PM

Now what is the Sports Guy going to write about?

Chief Rum · 02-04-2010, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Now what is the Sports Guy going to write about?

Duh...the Clippers' amazing turnaround!!!

stevew · 02-04-2010, 10:34 PM

They should have let Dumbleavy go right after their amazing loss to the cavs last year.

It was probably Simmons' greatest column ever.

stevew · 02-04-2010, 10:45 PM

Hey Troy

Are the cavs last 5 or 6 wins convincing enough?

Apparently the diesel is finally warmed up too. He is giving us what we need.

Ironhead · 02-05-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Thank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you Lord

THANK YOU!!!

This may change your mind:

RealGM: Basketball Wiretap Archives: Source: Clippers Eyeing Isiah Thomas

Source: Clippers Eyeing Isiah Thomas

Isiah Thomas has emerged as a candidate to run the Clippers, a source has told FOX Sports.

The Clippers have reached out to Thomas to take over as coach, general manager and president, according to a source close to the situation.

Mike Dunleavy was revealed of his coaching duties earlier this week, but he remains the general manager.

Thomas, the former coach of the Pacers and Knicks, is currently coaching at Florida International University.

Chief Rum · 02-05-2010, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironhead

This may change your mind:

RealGM: Basketball Wiretap Archives: Source: Clippers Eyeing Isiah Thomas

Source: Clippers Eyeing Isiah Thomas

Isiah Thomas has emerged as a candidate to run the Clippers, a source has told FOX Sports.

The Clippers have reached out to Thomas to take over as coach, general manager and president, according to a source close to the situation.

Mike Dunleavy was revealed of his coaching duties earlier this week, but he remains the general manager.

Thomas, the former coach of the Pacers and Knicks, is currently coaching at Florida International University.

Yeah, already saw it. It's amazing just how poorly a business could be run. Could they really be this stupid? We finally get Dunleavy out of there, only to possibly end up with Isiah? If that happens, I might have to stop following the team whatsoever.

Neuqua · 02-05-2010, 08:03 PM

That Isiah article is a joke right?

Arles · 02-05-2010, 08:21 PM

Bill Simmons' head will shatter into a million pieces if that happens.

DeToxRox · 02-05-2010, 08:27 PM

If Joe Dumars does not find a way to move Rip or Tay, even if it is for scraps, then can we please just fire him now?

bulletsponge · 02-05-2010, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironhead

This may change your mind:

RealGM: Basketball Wiretap Archives: Source: Clippers Eyeing Isiah Thomas

Source: Clippers Eyeing Isiah Thomas

Isiah Thomas has emerged as a candidate to run the Clippers, a source has told FOX Sports.

The Clippers have reached out to Thomas to take over as coach, general manager and president, according to a source close to the situation.

Mike Dunleavy was revealed of his coaching duties earlier this week, but he remains the general manager.

Thomas, the former coach of the Pacers and Knicks, is currently coaching at Florida International University.

the source is The Onion right? dear god Sterling cant possibly be that dumb can he? on the plus side Isiah running the clippers might actually be so bad it will be far more entertaining than any basketball game.

TroyF · 02-06-2010, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Hey Troy

Are the cavs last 5 or 6 wins convincing enough?

Apparently the diesel is finally warmed up too. He is giving us what we need.

Their last five?

They beat 12-38 Minnesota. (who was on a back to back, in NY the previous night) They beat 18-32 Indiana. They beat the 21-28 Clippers at home. Then they beat Memphis (who had lost at home the previous night in an emotional game to the lakers) and the Heat (who had lost the previous night to Boston)

3 teams on back to backs, 4 home games, three garbage teams? The wins are impressive, but they've had some favorable scheduling.

------------------------------------------------------------

Melo likely won't be back until Tuesday night. Nuggets with a huge win tonight in LA. Nuggets are now 8-2 vs. teams with a .600+ winning percentage. (losses at Hawks and the Mavs)

JR starting to hit shots, which will be huge if it keeps up. He's played horribly this year. If you'd have told me that between Melo, Billups, Jr and Kenyon we'd have lost over 30 games to injury, I'd have told you we'd be sitting 6th in the conference. To be 2nd with a full 3 game lead is just gravy. Can't wait until the team gets healthy again.

molson · 02-06-2010, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

on the plus side Isiah running the clippers might actually be so bad it will be far more entertaining than any basketball game.

I'm definitely rooting for this scenario. The NBA is better when Isaiah is running one of its teams (or in the case of the CBA, the entire league), into the ground.

jbergey22 · 02-06-2010, 08:33 AM

What could the Clippers possibly be thinking if any of the Isiah rumors are true? Were they not around when Isiah set the Knicks franchise back years? There have been a lot of bonehead moves made by franchises in the history of sports but this one would steal the show if this did actually happen.

Warhammer · 02-06-2010, 08:46 AM

Memphis beat the Lakers by two, on the front end of a back to back... Just to clarify.

TroyF · 02-06-2010, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Memphis beat the Lakers by two, on the front end of a back to back... Just to clarify.

You are right. My bad. Winn or lose, they were gassed. It's one of those games in the NBA where you pretty much concede the game before tip off if you aren't one of the top 5 teams in the league. (and even they do it sometimes) Some losses in the NBA are simply scheduling losses.

I'm not taking anything away from the Cavs. They are winning the close ones, they have the best player on the planet and they are going deep into the playoffs. I'm just not ready to annoit them best team in the league status because of their last five games.

Mantle2600 · 02-06-2010, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

You are right. My bad. Winn or lose, they were gassed. It's one of those games in the NBA where you pretty much concede the game before tip off if you aren't one of the top 5 teams in the league. (and even they do it sometimes) Some losses in the NBA are simply scheduling losses.

I'm not taking anything away from the Cavs. They are winning the close ones, they have the best player on the planet and they are going deep into the playoffs. I'm just not ready to annoit them best team in the league status because of their last five games.

You could go with the whole best record in the nba by 2 games, or the best statistical defense, the best road record, the best home record...

Warhammer · 02-06-2010, 01:04 PM

Compare most of their competition though. The East is down this year compared to the West. That is a huge reason why they have all the accolades to date.

Chief Rum · 02-06-2010, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

What could the Clippers possibly be thinking if any of the Isiah rumors are true? Were they not around when Isiah set the Knicks franchise back years? There have been a lot of bonehead moves made by franchises in the history of sports but this one would steal the show if this did actually happen.

It doesn't really make much sense. Didn't Isiah cost the Knicks millions in that lawsuit? Stirling doesn't like losing money. I would have to think hiring a guy who in his last job cost his franchise millions in collateral costs would be the last thing Stirling would want to do.

And that's beside the fact that he proved in his time in NY that he is both a worse GM than Dunleavy and a worse coach.

RainMaker · 02-06-2010, 02:25 PM

It sounds like a bullshit story.

Sources: Clippers deny any contact with Isiah Thomas - ESPN Los Angeles

Mantle2600 · 02-06-2010, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Compare most of their competition though. The East is down this year compared to the West. That is a huge reason why they have all the accolades to date.

You mean the west they're 19-5 against

Mantle2600 · 02-06-2010, 03:01 PM

In comparison the lakers are 18-3 against the east, Denver is 13-6

02-03-2010, 09:42 AM	#807
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	As someone who has watched the Suns this season, Amare is extremely overrated. He has lost a ton of explosiveness after his knee injury and most of his baskets are wide open jumpers or 5-foot post shots created by Nash off the dribble. He can't rebound (esp on defense), can't defend and is basically a decent one-dimensional offensive player. Here's some numbers on his 5 prior games before the 36-point effort against Houston: 1 - 5 1 - 5 5 - 5 3 - 5 5 - 1 The first number is turnovers and the second is rebounds. So, for a 5 game stretch, 6-10 center and "max player Amare" pitched in 21 rebounds and 15 turnovers. Sure, he'll have that 36-12 game that makes everyone "wow" from time to time, but he has a lot more 19 points, 5 rebounds, 3 turnover, 5 foul games that kill you. As to scoring, Robin Lopez is coming off back to back 18 and 14 point games - and the guy can't hit a shot outside of 3 feet. Nash creates a ton of open looks and is great on the pick and roll, you put Amare in a traditional offense and he will have more turnovers, a lower shooting percentage and less overall value than on the Suns. I think he's fool's gold for the next contract and I'm hoping the Suns find a way to trade him for 50 cents on the dollar. __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com

02-03-2010, 10:50 AM	#809
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	My point was that if someone signs him to a max contract, they will probably regret it. But that's the case for about 85% of the NBA players out there. If you could get Amare for about $10 million a year, I think his offense is worth the downside. At the end of the day, he's a quality player - just not one I would want signed to a max deal given his: A. Limited impact (only offensively) B. History of major injuries C. History of motivational issues It took Amare 6 games to realize that he has an opportunity to go to another team for a max contract - then he put up 36 and 25 points in the last two. What do you think his motivation would be on New Jersey or Philly next season after signing a 5-year Max deal on a marginal team? He'll get his points, but will be a disaster when it comes to turnovers, defense and rebounding. I just don't see the appeal to a contending team and, given the offers the Suns have gotten from contending teams, they seem to agree. __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com

02-03-2010, 12:13 PM	#811
Fidatelo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Winnipeg, MB	I can't see Amare exercising that option, because this will be the last chance for players to sign deals under the existing CBA, right? I'm pretty sure I'd want to get a long-term contract under this CBA as opposed to whatever Stern has them sucking on with the next one... __________________ "Breakfast? Breakfast schmekfast, look at the score for God's sake. It's only the second period and I'm winning 12-2. Breakfasts come and go, Rene, but Hartford, the Whale, they only beat Vancouver maybe once or twice in a lifetime."

02-03-2010, 01:32 PM	#814
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Ok. Here is the hypothetical. You have to go after a big man this offsesson. Amar'e or David Lee. Both should be free agents. Last edited by stevew : 02-03-2010 at 01:34 PM.

02-03-2010, 11:53 PM	#821
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	Amare needs a lot of touches to be effective. If a team feeds him the ball a ton, he could average 30. Of course, his shooting % will be lower and he'll have a ton of turnovers. But, that's where he's at his best. In Phoenix, there are nights where they just don't need him because Nash is so good at getting open looks for everyone. Just look at Channing Frye, Robin Lopez and Jared Dudley this season. __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com

02-02-2010, 06:22 PM	#801
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Pistons vs Nets tonight. So yeah, avoid.

02-02-2010, 06:27 PM	#803
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Aldridge reporting broken foot, official announcement tomorrow.

02-03-2010, 10:36 AM	#808
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	I don't know why everyone is trying to convince me Amare is a pile of dog crap. I DO NOT THINK HE WILL EVERY BE THE BEST PLAYER ON A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM. I get it. Do I think he could be someone that puts a contending team over the top? Yeah, I do. I know you list the five game stretch there. That's nice and all. I could point to a 6 game stretch earlier in the year where he averaged over 25 points on 17 shot attempts and along with 12.3 rebounds a game. (yes, even then, his turnovers were high) Why did he have those five garbage games you mentioned? Isn't it obvious to everyone in Phoenix that the guy doesn't want to be there and has checked out? Someone obviously went down and told him to keep his mouth shut and that he'd be traded and he's went off for a few games. If the deadline passes and he's still there, you'll have a dog with fleas the rest of the year. Look, I know he's not Lebron, Kobe, Howard or CP3. But are you going to make the case and tell me he's worse than Lemarcus Aldridge? Please. . .

02-03-2010, 01:12 PM	#812
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	That and he hates Phoenix right now. . . The problem is if he scans the league and sees nothing he likes. We thought the same about Boozer last year and he came back. It put the Jazz in a huge bind this year. (they are playing good anyway, but are going to have to pay a heavy tax and had to let go of some good players because Boozer did what he did) In this market, 16 million is a ton of cabbage. Amare could be a dog with fleas for 16 mil

02-03-2010, 02:03 PM	#817
RainMaker General Manager Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	I go with Lee because he's a better rebounder and passer. Just think an offense will flow better with him. Although I wouldn't go for him unless I had a bonafied shot blocker at Center.

02-03-2010, 02:44 PM	#818
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	All things being equal, I go with Lee. Better overall player. But in the NBA, it's putting your team together like a puzzle. If you need a secondary scorer, Stoudamire is better than Lee. Stoudamire faces more doubles, gets to the line a lot more (343 to 190 this year) and Amare is a MUCH better jump shooter (47.2 effective FG% on jumpers compared to just 42.4% for Lee) Lee is actually a slighly worse defensive player than Amare if you can believe that. On the other side, Lee is a much better rebounder and passer of the ball. What Amare has on Lee is 2007/2008 season. 25 points, 9 boards on 59% shooting. Take the 25 points on 59% shooting. You know how many players have done that in the last decade? That'd be one. Let's go 25 points on 50%+ shooting. You have Shaq (3 times), Karl Malone (1), Tim Duncan (1) and Amare (2) He's still just 27 years old and if he has a miracle health streak (don't laugh, Camby has been healthier, it can happen), he still has 4 to 5 years of all star level basketball left. Lee doesn't have that in his background. That's why he'll make less, even if he's a better overall player. (BTW: if Amare stayed healthy and got motivated, this wouldn't be a debate, he'd be one of the top 10 players in the game, easily, it's that damned motivation thing. . . )

02-03-2010, 03:11 PM	#819
RainMaker General Manager Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	I agree that it depends on the team. For instance, I'd rather the Bulls get Amare because we have Noah who cleans up the boards and gets blocks. I guess the issue is that if you can't motivate him in a contract year, how will anyone be able to motivate him when he signs a huge guaranteed contract?

02-03-2010, 06:06 PM	#820
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	It isn't a contract year though. He's getting 16 million next year if he stands at center court and picks his nose all year. He isn't happy in Phoenix. He wanted to be shipped out before the season. He's still not happy in Phoenix. Why? I have no idea. This is one of those cases where if he continues to pout and put up garbage efforts for the team that signs him next, everyone will scream I TOLD YOU SO MORONS. If he gets motivated and puts up a couple of years of all star play, the other side will say I TOLD YOU SO MORONS. I don't think at the end of his next contract, his team won't be lukewarm about him. Either they'll love him or hate him. I can see this going either way. . . but I think if you put a strong enough star around him (Bron, Wade, Kobe, etc.), they'll get the best out of him. If you put him with more of a laid back leadership type of star (Melo, Nash, Durant, Roy) you'll get mixed results.

02-04-2010, 02:39 AM	#823
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	This makes my eyes bleed Amar'e's Is that the proper grammar for "These are Amar'e's shoes?" Or does ghetto punctuation cancel out the normal rules of grammar?

02-04-2010, 07:24 PM	#826
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Thank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you LordThank you Lord THANK YOU!!! __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. Last edited by Chief Rum : 02-04-2010 at 07:25 PM.

02-04-2010, 07:27 PM	#827
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	Isn't he still the GM? (I'm making an assumption here)

02-04-2010, 08:05 PM	#829
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	dumbleavy's out? Man.

02-04-2010, 09:26 PM	#830
Groundhog Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia	Now what is the Sports Guy going to write about? __________________ Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. --Ambrose Bierce

02-04-2010, 10:34 PM	#832
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	They should have let Dumbleavy go right after their amazing loss to the cavs last year. It was probably Simmons' greatest column ever.

02-04-2010, 10:45 PM	#833
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Hey Troy Are the cavs last 5 or 6 wins convincing enough? Apparently the diesel is finally warmed up too. He is giving us what we need.

02-05-2010, 08:03 PM	#836
Neuqua Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago, Ill	That Isiah article is a joke right? __________________ Our Deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?

02-05-2010, 08:21 PM	#837
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	Bill Simmons' head will shatter into a million pieces if that happens. __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com

02-05-2010, 08:27 PM	#838
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	If Joe Dumars does not find a way to move Rip or Tay, even if it is for scraps, then can we please just fire him now?

02-06-2010, 08:33 AM	#842
jbergey22 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Minnesota	What could the Clippers possibly be thinking if any of the Isiah rumors are true? Were they not around when Isiah set the Knicks franchise back years? There have been a lot of bonehead moves made by franchises in the history of sports but this one would steal the show if this did actually happen.

02-06-2010, 08:46 AM	#843
Warhammer Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dayton, OH	Memphis beat the Lakers by two, on the front end of a back to back... Just to clarify.

02-06-2010, 01:04 PM	#846
Warhammer Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dayton, OH	Compare most of their competition though. The East is down this year compared to the West. That is a huge reason why they have all the accolades to date.

02-06-2010, 02:25 PM	#848
RainMaker General Manager Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	It sounds like a bullshit story. Sources: Clippers deny any contact with Isiah Thomas - ESPN Los Angeles

02-06-2010, 03:01 PM	#850
Mantle2600 High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Dawg Pound	In comparison the lakers are 18-3 against the east, Denver is 13-6 __________________ Member of the Underground Browns. Cavs. Tribe. Buckeyes. Period. Last edited by Mantle2600 : 02-06-2010 at 03:01 PM.

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