WW 103? - 42 Attempts (Game Over - Conspirators Win) - Page 17

Darth Vilus · 10-15-2009, 12:13 AM

shouldve let me live

J23 · 10-15-2009, 12:14 AM

Of course that person would have to be re-scanned after tonight to matter, right?

ntndeacon · 10-15-2009, 12:25 AM

yes they would J23 but at least we would have thaty one vulnerable

Danny · 10-15-2009, 09:51 AM

Based on the bomb location and the way the power works, it means a couple things.

#1 helps the wolves, but I am sure they know already, Hitler was in Berlin.

#2, the wolf who set the bomb off had no way of knowing who else would be with Hitler so there very well could be a wolf or wolves in the group that got hurt or in Berlin in general.

ntndeacon · 10-15-2009, 10:10 AM

umm Danny, How would they know where Hitler would be based on bomb location. Wouldn't that bomb have to have been placed on the 1st day? How would they have ANY clue who was going to be where.
Now the second point I agree with. It is quite possible that wolves got hurt or at least were in Berlin.

ntndeacon · 10-15-2009, 10:18 AM

In fact iwill go further. Weren't we all in Berlin on day one? If so, then Berlin was the only place that bomb could of happened.

J23 · 10-15-2009, 10:31 AM

Ntn-
I think the other bomb guy is the one that sets it two days in advance, which would mean it would go off tonight (at the soonest) wherever they were the first night if I'm not mistaken.

Danny-
1. I missed the fact that Hitler had to have been there. Good catch.
2. I think the wolves would have seen the attendence list before they submitted that they wanted to use the bomb. The attendence list was out there a good bit before deadline after all. From looking at the descriptions, I'm pretty sure this is Stauffenberg (as I listed a few posts back) rather than Elser(who sets the bomb in advance). There is nothing in the description that says he has to be in attendence to use the bomb, however, it does say the success depends on the number of conspirators at the meeting. Since it blew up a few people (though apparently not fatally?), I think we can assume that we have at least 1 wolf, but probably not more than 2, or I think the result would have likely been worse.

The Jackal · 10-15-2009, 10:42 AM

I see no reason to move away from this.

VOTE NTN

The Jackal · 10-15-2009, 10:43 AM

I will do my best to be here tonight so you can't try and get me lynched at the last moment, Autumn.

Lathum · 10-15-2009, 11:04 AM

I have a big test today and won't be home until about 5 EST. I will likely hold off my vote until then. I think today is a really important vote and want a chance to delve in to the voting records, etc...

Chief Rum · 10-15-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J23

Danny-
1. I missed the fact that Hitler had to have been there. Good catch.

I am still missing it. Can someone point me out how we know Hitler was in Berlin?

The Jackal · 10-15-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I am still missing it. Can someone point me out how we know Hitler was in Berlin?

I also missed how we know this for certain. Elser's role has a two night delay, so there's no way he can be positive of Hitler being where it will go off. Stauffenberg's bomb can go off during a meeting, so presumably he would know if he and Hitler were in a meeting together, perhaps that's what Danny is pointing to?

Stauffenberg's extended role does say that Hitler will have a chance to investigate the details after the assassination attempt, a note that is not in Elser's role.

The Jackal · 10-15-2009, 11:18 AM

dola

I said Stauffenberg's bomb - it doesn't indicate in his role what the kill attempt actually is, but I guess we are assuming it is also an explosive device.

The Jackal · 10-15-2009, 11:22 AM

So that would make sense, since there is an investigation, that it was Stauffenberg's attempt and he would likely be informed that he and Hitler were in a meeting together prior to the meeting taking place. The fact that the attempt failed may be of importance later when trying to figure out how many conspirators were there.

J23 · 10-15-2009, 11:25 AM

What I think Danny caught that I didn't at first was:

"Stauffenberg will have the ability to make a one time attempt on Hitler during one of the meeting events"

This specifically mentions the attempt is on Hitler, not a location.

J23 · 10-15-2009, 11:25 AM

Btw, can someone please tell me what "dola" means? I see it thrown around fairly often in these forums.

Lathum · 10-15-2009, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J23

Btw, can someone please tell me what "dola" means? I see it thrown around fairly often in these forums.

there used to be a posted names Dolamite who would post 3-4 times in a row instead of all in one post to pad his post count.

The Jackal · 10-15-2009, 11:28 AM

So, we've got 12 people left, 3 of which are in the ICU. Looks like there are 3 conspirators plus the convert (though there hasn't been a missed NK that could've been a convert, so presumably he's still a Nazi). If the Seer has anyone I'd say they should come out soon. Waiting another day might be advisable, but if we screw up another lynch we're going to be in serious trouble.

The Jackal · 10-15-2009, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J23

Btw, can someone please tell me what "dola" means? I see it thrown around fairly often in these forums.

Used to indicate an add-on to a previous post, especially since we can't edit posts.

ntndeacon · 10-15-2009, 11:39 AM

Ok I see the error of my ways in terms of it being Stauffenberg rather than the other guy. We need to find at least one more suspect if not two to look at today.

Chief Rum · 10-15-2009, 12:20 PM

Yes, good catch there, Danny. The fact that Hitler started an investigation should have clued us in.

Also, not that anyone thought this, but it seems likely Hitler is not one of the three who were hurt. I would assume if he were, he could not launch an investigation.

The Jackal · 10-15-2009, 12:32 PM

It is fair to speculate about that, CR, but I wouldn't set it in stone. He could have ordered the investigation from an ICU bed, who knows.

ntndeacon · 10-15-2009, 01:04 PM

Ok I have one final question about the bombing. If it was Stauffenberg, why did it not go off during the meeting instead of the end of the day?

The Jackal · 10-15-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

Ok I have one final question about the bombing. If it was Stauffenberg, why did it not go off during the meeting instead of the end of the day?

Yeah, it did go off at the end of the day, didn't it? My timeline is a little off since I was out of the game all of yesterday. That would suggest it was Elser's device, maybe EF left the investigation out of that role? Donno.

ntndeacon · 10-15-2009, 01:12 PM

I guess part of my questioning was based on the assumption we all started out in Berling before the Fuhrer told us where to go. That may be an incorrect assumption obviously. And certainly if it was Stauffenberg, we wont have as much to worry about, since he can only try once... (I think) And might even be executed.

J23 · 10-15-2009, 01:17 PM

I didn't see any meeting happen yesterday unless I'm missing something obvious (nothing between 7pm and deadline that I saw at least). I assume that the meetings don't necessarily happen every night, or even more than once for that matter. If that's the case, there still need to be opportunities for the conspirators to use their abilities, which is why I assume we still have locations we're stationed at for the day.

Perhaps I'm making assumptions that I shouldn't, but they seem logical, at least to me.

The Jackal · 10-15-2009, 01:19 PM

That's right, there wasn't an official meeting yesterday was there. I think that should suggest this was Elser's attack that was set to go off two nights ago, shouldn't it? Correct me if we're wrong here, Danny.

The Jackal · 10-15-2009, 01:19 PM

I've been going off the investigation since that was specifically mentioned in Stauffenberg's role, but maybe that's misguided. But Danny seemed very sure of it.

ntndeacon · 10-15-2009, 01:20 PM

Meetings happen every three days

The Jackal · 10-15-2009, 01:21 PM

I think I was reading into other people's comments more than actually looking at Danny's, I just went back, did he even suggest it was Stauffenberg? He just said it suggested Hitler was present. But I don't know how you can come to that conclusion either.

ntndeacon · 10-15-2009, 01:22 PM

And there was a meeting but it happened earlier in the day. the Staffenberg still might be right, I am trying to explore other possibilities. I think if it is Stauffenberg then we have our first wolf and he will be executed.(a little optimism is a wonderful thing)

The Jackal · 10-15-2009, 01:23 PM

From what I can see, this was Elser's attempt, which means he started the bomb on night 1 and it went off on night 3, hasn't killed anyone (yet), and that Stauffenberg will probably try to use his ability at the next meeting if he is present, so hopefully we can kill off Stauffenberg before then.

The Jackal · 10-15-2009, 01:23 PM

There is nothing that says Stauffenberg's ability is a bomb. From the role description it even seems like it would probably be more of a direct hit on Hitler, perhaps a gun.

ntndeacon · 10-15-2009, 01:23 PM

the only reason we can come to the conclusion that Hitler was there is if it was Staffenberg's attempt.

The Jackal · 10-15-2009, 01:25 PM

Whatever the case, we still have voting to focus on. Who would you bring up as candidates, NTN, assuming you aren't a wolf yourself?

ntndeacon · 10-15-2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

From what I can see, this was Elser's attempt, which means he started the bomb on night 1 and it went off on night 3, hasn't killed anyone (yet), and that Stauffenberg will probably try to use his ability at the next meeting if he is present, so hopefully we can kill off Stauffenberg before then.

The only bad thing if it isn't Stauffenberg, then we still have a cunning wolf out there.

The Jackal · 10-15-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

The only bad thing if it isn't Stauffenberg, then we still have a cunning wolf out there.

I am working under the assumption that this is true.

ntndeacon · 10-15-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Whatever the case, we still have voting to focus on. Who would you bring up as candidates, NTN, assuming you aren't a wolf yourself?

Well since we have had so much luck so far with our targets, maybe we need to bring folks like Schimdty and PB under the microscope a little and see what shakes out. (btw I used those names as I think they have had the least amount of pressure put on them. )

The Jackal · 10-15-2009, 01:41 PM

Speaking of PB, sorry to hear what happened. Hope you recover quickly.

J23 · 10-15-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Johann Georg Elser - A carpenter who is very good with his hands and detests the iron fisted rule of the Nazis and what he fears them to be. He has a one time ability to craft an explosive device which may (or may not) cause havoc with the Nazi party. When he decides to plant the bomb it will not go off for two nights (if he sets it on day/night one it will not go off until day/night three). There is no stopping his attack once it has begun and will still detonate if he is killed prior to the event. The device is set when he gives the order. He acts alone and does not have any affiliation with the Nazi party and thus not with the other conspirators. He wins with the conspiracy though he does not have PM rights.

Claus Philipp Maria Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg - Famous for his role in the assassination attempt know primarily in Germany as the 20 July Plot, though more commonly known as Operation Valkyrie (though that was actually a German conditional plan in the event that the government could not function for any number of reasons. Stauffenberg will have the ability to make a one time attempt on Hitler during one of the meeting events though if it is not successful Hitler will gain an ability to order an investigation of the incident in which there is a good chance that he will be discovered and executed. The chance of success will be determined by the following factors: if he is invited to the meeting and the number of conspirators that are attending the meeting (the more conspirators he more help he will have in making it successful, Elser's attendance counts towards this goal)

Notice the part in red, bold, underlined, and oversized font. Not sure how I can stress this any more than I already have honestly.

For those that don't know the history of the 20 July Plot, it involved a briefcase bomb (2 bombs in one briefcase in fact, though only 1 was activated.) 4 People killed, a whole lot of folks injured, but Hitler was barely hurt. Having Stauffenberg's attempt be a bomb as well would not be surprising in the least.

Could this have been Elser? I suppose so, but I wouldn't think that EF would have put in that flavor text for it when it is so closel to what would happen with Stauf's mechanic. I suppose once(if) a 2nd attempt happens we'll know better.

Lathum · 10-15-2009, 02:01 PM

I would be very surprised if it was Stauffenberg. The conspiritors are owning us right now, why run the risk of a failed attempt and losing their cunning when they have it all going their way.

The Jackal · 10-15-2009, 02:08 PM

But J ... look below the line you bolded and redded. Stauffenberg's attempt is at a meeting.

1) there wasn't a meeting yesterday
2) the bomb went off after the lynch, so even if there had been a meeting, it didnt happen then

I understand what you're looking at with the investigation, but the way this was written, this definitely should not have been Stauffenberg's attack.

The Jackal · 10-15-2009, 02:17 PM

Am I wrong here? I think there's some pre-game mistakes here either way. Either Stauffenberg's attempt didn't have to be at a meeting (unlikely) - or an investigation was possible with Elser's attempt as well. Perhaps the current investigation is just a general investigation in keeping with the theme of the game? Wouldn't the Nazi Party want to know wtf happened? It's probably just not the kind of investigation that is going to immediately get someone executed. That's the best I have to go off.

Danny · 10-15-2009, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I would be very surprised if it was Stauffenberg. The conspiritors are owning us right now, why run the risk of a failed attempt and losing their cunning when they have it all going their way.

Because he would have had to decide night 1, not now.

The Jackal · 10-15-2009, 02:22 PM

You have them mixed up, Danny. Elser is the one that had to decide night 1, not Stauffenberg.

J23 · 10-15-2009, 02:23 PM

Good points Jackal. It does mention that it is at a meeting, which I glossed over and focused on just the investigation portion.

If it was Elser, then we don't know that Hitler was there at all, or anything about any of the people at that location for that matter. Ugh.

Danny · 10-15-2009, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J23

What I think Danny caught that I didn't at first was:

"Stauffenberg will have the ability to make a one time attempt on Hitler during one of the meeting events"

This specifically mentions the attempt is on Hitler, not a location.

This, I am assuming that the person had no idea in which location Hitler would be, but on night 1 decided to use their ability and the bomb went off wherever Hitler was located.

Danny · 10-15-2009, 02:26 PM

Johann Georg Elser - A carpenter who is very good with his hands and detests the iron fisted rule of the Nazis and what he fears them to be. He has a one time ability to craft an explosive device which may (or may not) cause havoc with the Nazi party. When he decides to plant the bomb it will not go off for two nights (if he sets it on day/night one it will not go off until day/night three). There is no stopping his attack once it has begun and will still detonate if he is killed prior to the event. The device is set when he gives the order. He acts alone and does not have any affiliation with the Nazi party and thus not with the other conspirators. He wins with the conspiracy though he does not have PM rights.

Claus Philipp Maria Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg - Famous for his role in the assassination attempt know primarily in Germany as the 20 July Plot, though more commonly known as Operation Valkyrie (though that was actually a German conditional plan in the event that the government could not function for any number of reasons. Stauffenberg will have the ability to make a one time attempt on Hitler during one of the meeting events though if it is not successful Hitler will gain an ability to order an investigation of the incident in which there is a good chance that he will be discovered and executed. The chance of success will be determined by the following factors: if he is invited to the meeting and the number of conspirators that are attending the meeting (the more conspirators he more help he will have in making it successful, Elser's attendance counts towards this goal)

To me I think this had to have been Elser. Stauffenberg's attempt happens during the meeting event, this I dont believe was that.

Elser clearly states that it is a bomb and that if planted night one, will go off night 3 (which is the night we just had)

Danny · 10-15-2009, 02:27 PM

Reposted (since it was jumbled with the descriptions)

To me I think this had to have been Elser. Stauffenberg's attempt happens during the meeting event, this I dont believe was that.

Elser clearly states that it is a bomb and that if planted night one, will go off night 3 (which is the night we just had)

J23 · 10-15-2009, 02:27 PM

I assume that Elser's is just planted at a location, not that it detonates wherever Hitler is. I think Stauf's ability is the only one that will point out where Hitler is at.

10-15-2009, 12:13 AM	#801
Darth Vilus College Benchwarmer Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: SoCal	shouldve let me live __________________ "Two there should be; no more, no less. One to embody power, the other to crave it." ―Darth Bane "Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you…" ―Darth Plagueis the Wise

10-15-2009, 12:20 PM	#821
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Yes, good catch there, Danny. The fact that Hitler started an investigation should have clued us in. Also, not that anyone thought this, but it seems likely Hitler is not one of the three who were hurt. I would assume if he were, he could not launch an investigation. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

10-15-2009, 12:14 AM	#802
J23 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jul 2009	Of course that person would have to be re-scanned after tonight to matter, right?

10-15-2009, 12:25 AM	#803
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	yes they would J23 but at least we would have thaty one vulnerable

10-15-2009, 09:51 AM	#804
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Based on the bomb location and the way the power works, it means a couple things. #1 helps the wolves, but I am sure they know already, Hitler was in Berlin. #2, the wolf who set the bomb off had no way of knowing who else would be with Hitler so there very well could be a wolf or wolves in the group that got hurt or in Berlin in general.

10-15-2009, 10:10 AM	#805
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	umm Danny, How would they know where Hitler would be based on bomb location. Wouldn't that bomb have to have been placed on the 1st day? How would they have ANY clue who was going to be where. Now the second point I agree with. It is quite possible that wolves got hurt or at least were in Berlin.

10-15-2009, 10:18 AM	#806
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	In fact iwill go further. Weren't we all in Berlin on day one? If so, then Berlin was the only place that bomb could of happened.

10-15-2009, 10:31 AM	#807
J23 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jul 2009	Ntn- I think the other bomb guy is the one that sets it two days in advance, which would mean it would go off tonight (at the soonest) wherever they were the first night if I'm not mistaken. Danny- 1. I missed the fact that Hitler had to have been there. Good catch. 2. I think the wolves would have seen the attendence list before they submitted that they wanted to use the bomb. The attendence list was out there a good bit before deadline after all. From looking at the descriptions, I'm pretty sure this is Stauffenberg (as I listed a few posts back) rather than Elser(who sets the bomb in advance). There is nothing in the description that says he has to be in attendence to use the bomb, however, it does say the success depends on the number of conspirators at the meeting. Since it blew up a few people (though apparently not fatally?), I think we can assume that we have at least 1 wolf, but probably not more than 2, or I think the result would have likely been worse.

10-15-2009, 10:42 AM	#808
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	I see no reason to move away from this. VOTE NTN

10-15-2009, 10:43 AM	#809
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	I will do my best to be here tonight so you can't try and get me lynched at the last moment, Autumn.

10-15-2009, 11:04 AM	#810
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I have a big test today and won't be home until about 5 EST. I will likely hold off my vote until then. I think today is a really important vote and want a chance to delve in to the voting records, etc...

10-15-2009, 11:18 AM	#813
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	dola I said Stauffenberg's bomb - it doesn't indicate in his role what the kill attempt actually is, but I guess we are assuming it is also an explosive device.

10-15-2009, 11:22 AM	#814
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	So that would make sense, since there is an investigation, that it was Stauffenberg's attempt and he would likely be informed that he and Hitler were in a meeting together prior to the meeting taking place. The fact that the attempt failed may be of importance later when trying to figure out how many conspirators were there.

10-15-2009, 11:25 AM	#815
J23 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jul 2009	What I think Danny caught that I didn't at first was: "Stauffenberg will have the ability to make a one time attempt on Hitler during one of the meeting events" This specifically mentions the attempt is on Hitler, not a location.

10-15-2009, 11:25 AM	#816
J23 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jul 2009	Btw, can someone please tell me what "dola" means? I see it thrown around fairly often in these forums.

10-15-2009, 11:28 AM	#818
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	So, we've got 12 people left, 3 of which are in the ICU. Looks like there are 3 conspirators plus the convert (though there hasn't been a missed NK that could've been a convert, so presumably he's still a Nazi). If the Seer has anyone I'd say they should come out soon. Waiting another day might be advisable, but if we screw up another lynch we're going to be in serious trouble.

10-15-2009, 11:39 AM	#820
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	Ok I see the error of my ways in terms of it being Stauffenberg rather than the other guy. We need to find at least one more suspect if not two to look at today.

10-15-2009, 12:32 PM	#822
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	It is fair to speculate about that, CR, but I wouldn't set it in stone. He could have ordered the investigation from an ICU bed, who knows.

10-15-2009, 01:04 PM	#823
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	Ok I have one final question about the bombing. If it was Stauffenberg, why did it not go off during the meeting instead of the end of the day?

10-15-2009, 01:12 PM	#825
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	I guess part of my questioning was based on the assumption we all started out in Berling before the Fuhrer told us where to go. That may be an incorrect assumption obviously. And certainly if it was Stauffenberg, we wont have as much to worry about, since he can only try once... (I think) And might even be executed.

10-15-2009, 01:17 PM	#826
J23 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jul 2009	I didn't see any meeting happen yesterday unless I'm missing something obvious (nothing between 7pm and deadline that I saw at least). I assume that the meetings don't necessarily happen every night, or even more than once for that matter. If that's the case, there still need to be opportunities for the conspirators to use their abilities, which is why I assume we still have locations we're stationed at for the day. Perhaps I'm making assumptions that I shouldn't, but they seem logical, at least to me.

10-15-2009, 01:19 PM	#827
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	That's right, there wasn't an official meeting yesterday was there. I think that should suggest this was Elser's attack that was set to go off two nights ago, shouldn't it? Correct me if we're wrong here, Danny.

10-15-2009, 01:19 PM	#828
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	I've been going off the investigation since that was specifically mentioned in Stauffenberg's role, but maybe that's misguided. But Danny seemed very sure of it.

10-15-2009, 01:20 PM	#829
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	Meetings happen every three days

10-15-2009, 01:21 PM	#830
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	I think I was reading into other people's comments more than actually looking at Danny's, I just went back, did he even suggest it was Stauffenberg? He just said it suggested Hitler was present. But I don't know how you can come to that conclusion either.

10-15-2009, 01:22 PM	#831
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	And there was a meeting but it happened earlier in the day. the Staffenberg still might be right, I am trying to explore other possibilities. I think if it is Stauffenberg then we have our first wolf and he will be executed.(a little optimism is a wonderful thing)

10-15-2009, 01:23 PM	#832
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	From what I can see, this was Elser's attempt, which means he started the bomb on night 1 and it went off on night 3, hasn't killed anyone (yet), and that Stauffenberg will probably try to use his ability at the next meeting if he is present, so hopefully we can kill off Stauffenberg before then.

10-15-2009, 01:23 PM	#833
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	There is nothing that says Stauffenberg's ability is a bomb. From the role description it even seems like it would probably be more of a direct hit on Hitler, perhaps a gun.

10-15-2009, 01:23 PM	#834
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	the only reason we can come to the conclusion that Hitler was there is if it was Staffenberg's attempt.

10-15-2009, 01:25 PM	#835
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Whatever the case, we still have voting to focus on. Who would you bring up as candidates, NTN, assuming you aren't a wolf yourself?

10-15-2009, 01:41 PM	#839
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Speaking of PB, sorry to hear what happened. Hope you recover quickly.

10-15-2009, 02:01 PM	#841
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I would be very surprised if it was Stauffenberg. The conspiritors are owning us right now, why run the risk of a failed attempt and losing their cunning when they have it all going their way.