COVID-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (a non-political thread, see pg. 36 #1778)

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Ironically, the compassion is coming from the establishment.

Bad Request

I still think this is an example of there being less acceptance if you dig deeper. Why are those types of things even being contemplated? With the Gulf War/alternative medicine examples, pre-COVID you didn't have aspects such as 'follow societies line or you can't do basic activities'. I.e., nobody contemplated mandating people to have certain medical treatments or political beliefs if they wanted to go to a grocery store, have their hair cut, eat at a restaurant, fly on an airplane, etc. In the service business it would have been considered absolutely beyond the pale to even think about asking a customer what vaccines/etc. they had and use that as a consideration from whether or not they can frequent your establishment.

These laws are all examples of pushback against the kinds of policies that were never even under consideration in those examples.

[Flasch186]

@molson stop trying to understand… the guy above says we’re all wrong and it’s not political on the whole. The outliers are the political ones… not Vice versa
.
.
.
.
.
He’s wrong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Flasch1986

The outliers are the political ones… not Vice versa

Actually that's not what I said at all. I suggest re-reading the actual posts I made with the data to back them up, which I note nobody has yet interacted with, in contrast to how I've treated the supporting statements others such as yourself have made.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Actually that's not what I said at all. I suggest re-reading the actual posts I made with the data to back them up, which I note nobody has yet interacted with, in contrast to how I've treated the supporting statements others such as yourself have made.

yet you are completely ignoring the data that shows 14 of the lowest 15 states in vaccinations are overwhelmingly red states.

[Flasch186]

Coincidence because science is wrong on this and climate change both!!! MAGA!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brian Swartz]

No, I'm not ignoring it at all. That fits in quite well with what I said.

Originally Posted by me

the unvaccinated skew that direction to a degree, which I have agreed with.

Originally Posted by me

I never said there wasn't an overlap. To repeat, I think there is a lot of it. I think most people who are anti-vaccine are on the political right. My point is that isn't *all* of it and there's more outliers than people on this board tend to claim.

Originally Posted by me

It isn't entirely political. The world isn't that simple. There are people who have a stance because they want to own the libs, but there are also people including medical professionals who are against the vaccine because of what they know of the science, there are people who are anti-vax in general but also quite apolitical, etc. There is overlap between these groups but also significant divergence into subsets.

I've literally been agreeing that there is a significant political element since the beginning of this conversation. All it takes is a small one to make vaccination rates lower in states that lean one direction politically, that's how statistics work. And the skew in this case isn't small.

It also isn't the overwhelming, dominant factor that has been repeatedly claimed. But I don't know how to say it in a way to get it through to you, Flasch, etc. that I'm not dismissing the political element. I'm just not willing to flagrantly lie and character assassinate those who refuse the vaccine for other reasons and pretend that the number of them is tiny, because it isn't.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Flasch1986

Coincidence because science is wrong on this and climate change both!!! MAGA!!!

Except that I've been anti-Trump since he announced his candidacy, didn't vote for him in either election, voted Biden in 2020, and am ardently in favor of more aggressive climate change policy.

Literally none of this applies. And that's without getting into how much the science has changed over time on COVID, to the point where statements that were getting removed from social media as 'disinformation' are now being made by official government spokespeople as facts to accept.

You're free to explain to me anytime you want why significant numbers of Democrats, Independents, apolitical people etc don't want the vaccine, but yet it's all political. I'm all for engagement on that. What we have now though is conspiracy-level behavior, where I present counter-evidence, it's ignored and blatantly false caricature of what I've actually said is propounded in contrast to what I actually did say.

[Lathum]

the problem is that the amount of people on the right who are anti vax are the reason we are in this spot and are screwing it up for the rest of us. If there was an equal amount of vaccine hesitant on the right as there are on the left we would be a lot better off. If the red states had the same levels of vaccinated as blue states we would be looking at putting this behind us instead of bracing or more lockdowns. That is why it is largely political.

[Brian Swartz]

Again, that just doesn't square with the facts. The poll numbers I mentioned showed (as of a month ago, I don't have more recent data than that) that unvaccinated Democrats are half as many as unvaccinated Republicans. That means Republicans have more responsibility there. It doesn't mean they have all of it. It doesn't mean that they are screwing it up for the rest of us.

That's just a flat-out counterfactual take to make it that one-sided. If we blame those Republicans, we have to also blame those Democrats who aren't taking it proportionally. I know that doesn't fit the narrative/axe to grind, but it's also just the way it is.

Originally Posted by Lathum

f the red states had the same levels of vaccinated as blue states we would be looking at putting this behind us instead of bracing or more lockdowns.

We don't know that. We'd be in a better situation sure, but we don't know that would be enough to prevent more restrictions. The more vaccinated the better, but nobody knows for sure where that line is, where states and communities are going to draw the line, etc. The fact that California - as blue as they get - is ramping up restrictions shows that this simply isn't so.

[thesloppy]

Man, what a shock to find Brian in here absolutely whipping the shit out of the weathered corpses of several people's internet generalizations.

[Edward64]

Speaking about facts, let's add another data point to the conversation.

Looks like Asians have been pretty good. Whites, Blacks, Hispanics vaccinations have been below their relative population. However, in the last "14 days" there's a marked uptick for Blacks and Hispanics.

FWIW, this is based on at least 1 shot. You would think they have the info for 2 shots (fully-vaccinated) so not sure why they don't share that info.

There's another chart in the link that shows the breakdown by states. It shows GA pretty much same as broader US.

Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity | KFF

[Brian Swartz]

Man, what a shock to find someone falsely accusing me of doing that, and in so doing creating an environment where apparently it's not appropriate for me to challenge any statement in a debate forum. Take statements such as this:

Originally Posted by Flasch186

The GREAT majority of those against the vaccine, and I mean GREAT, are in the category above (see my post that listed their pattern of support in the post I listed way up on the other page). They're consistent with their tribe and that is 99% political first and then scrambling for reasons other than political to support their already decided notion.

I don't know how to translate GREAT into an exact number, but based on the wording here I'd definitely put it upwards of 90%. Either way though, this isn't a generalization. It is a fairly specific claim that can be evaluated. It's either true, or it's not.

Similarly with what Lathum just said. Specific claim. These can be evaluated for veracity. This kind of exchange of ideas are what debate forums are *for*. I can challenge the ideas, they can show me where they think I'm wrong, we can have a back and forth. That's what we do here, is it not?

[Edward64]

Unabashedly, the latest news about fully vaccinated people who are infected with Delta, having the "same amount of virus" as unvaccinated, has made me think about stocking up on toilet paper (and other stuff) during my weekly shopping run tomorrow.

I think the odds are low < 10% that this will cause near the same level of havoc as last year (e.g. we are about 70% with at least 1-shot vaccinated). But last year has shown that we will eventually eat through the stored pasta, rice, spam, soups, bacon (!) etc.

A new study shows the Delta Covid-19 variant produced similar amounts of virus in vaccinated and unvaccinated people if they get infected -- illustrating a key motivation behind the federal guidance that now recommends most fully vaccinated Americans wear masks indoors.

Experts say that vaccination makes it less likely that you'll catch Covid-19 in the first place -- but for those who do, this data suggests they could have a similar tendency to spread it as unvaccinated folks.

On a side note, I've been clearing my throat, have a slight runny nose. No fever. I was in FL during July 4 week so it would be about 3 weeks since. Reading about FL being a top 3 state for new infections makes me wonder if I should get tested.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Except that I've been anti-Trump since he announced his candidacy, didn't vote for him in either election, voted Biden in 2020, and am ardently in favor of more aggressive climate change policy.

Literally none of this applies. And that's without getting into how much the science has changed over time on COVID, to the point where statements that were getting removed from social media as 'disinformation' are now being made by official government spokespeople as facts to accept.

You're free to explain to me anytime you want why significant numbers of Democrats, Independents, apolitical people etc don't want the vaccine, but yet it's all political. I'm all for engagement on that. What we have now though is conspiracy-level behavior, where I present counter-evidence, it's ignored and blatantly false caricature of what I've actually said is propounded in contrast to what I actually did say.

The argument isn't how many in each but the delta between the tribe's #'s and their numbers. THAT shows the pol. poison in it.

The commentary isn't about you although you baffle me in your willingness to imagine things in the face of overwhelming statistics but that of the actual groups that are so unbelieabl\y consistent in their theme(s).

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Unabashedly, the latest news about fully vaccinated people who are infected with Delta, having the "same amount of virus" as unvaccinated, has made me think about stocking up on toilet paper (and other stuff) during my weekly shopping run tomorrow.

I think the odds are low < 10% that this will cause near the same level of havoc as last year (e.g. we are about 70% with at least 1-shot vaccinated). But last year has shown that we will eventually eat through the stored pasta, rice, spam, soups, bacon (!) etc.




On a side note, I've been clearing my throat, have a slight runny nose. No fever. I was in FL during July 4 week so it would be about 3 weeks since. Reading about FL being a top 3 state for new infections makes me wonder if I should get tested.

I think we're 20-30 days away from rolling shutdowns and mandates...

Go get tested and stock up on things you'll use anyways.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

The argument isn't how many in each but the delta between the tribe's #'s and their numbers. THAT shows the pol. poison in it.

That is literally contrary to what you said earlier in the thread. We're now shifting the goalposts from claiming that almost everyone against the vaccine is doing it for political reasons to no, it actually doesn't matter what % of people think that way for political reasons, the fact that there is a political correlation at all is all that matters, and of course the fact that 'our' tribe is also misinformed and wrong on the pandemic also doesn't matter and isn't political poison we're going to care about.

As a matter of basic logic, this demonstrates itself then to not actually be about the vaccine or science at all, but abound finding a sword to wield against the tribe we don't like. Because if it's about the vaccine, then we absolutely have to care about how many are in each camp.

Originally Posted by Flasch186

you baffle me in your willingness to imagine things in the face of overwhelming statistics

Just flat-out making things up. I've provided the statistics that back me up, and show my statements to be provably far more accurate than the ones you've made. That's the opposite of imagining things.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I still think this is an example of there being less acceptance if you dig deeper. Why are those types of things even being contemplated? With the Gulf War/alternative medicine examples, pre-COVID you didn't have aspects such as 'follow societies line or you can't do basic activities'. I.e., nobody contemplated mandating people to have certain medical treatments or political beliefs if they wanted to go to a grocery store, have their hair cut, eat at a restaurant, fly on an airplane, etc. In the service business it would have been considered absolutely beyond the pale to even think about asking a customer what vaccines/etc. they had and use that as a consideration from whether or not they can frequent your establishment.

These laws are all examples of pushback against the kinds of policies that were never even under consideration in those examples.

Brian, we do this all the time. We have said that a business has the right to refuse as long as it has legitimate reasons and applies that standard to everyone. We have laws that prevent people from practicing certain aspects of alternative medicine in the name of the public good. Go back and read some of the stories from the AIDS crisis in the 80's and tell me people were not restricted from basic activities due to their medical conditions, PERCEIVED medical conditions, or political beliefs.

Again, I am not saying it was right. I am explicitly saying that it is wrong. What I am saying that states passing laws to protect the rights of a small subset of people by blocking legislation that MIGHT be put in place for the greater public good does not happen. That takes a certain amount of compassion for the legitimate plight of that small subset of people. We rarely if ever take the initiative to do that.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I think we're 20-30 days away from rolling shutdowns and mandates...

Go get tested and stock up on things you'll use anyways.

We didn't even do serious shutdowns in spring 2020 when this started. A few closed restaurants was about it. They were mandating masks in Walmart yesterday where my girlfriend was, and they had more pissed off vaccinated people than anti-vax/anti-maskers.

[Flasch186]

@brian no, you’re wrong and twisting into pretzels to claim you’re right

We’re all saying that the broad red tribe has blended their political bend, their leaders misinformation and attack the liberals no matter what into denying covid is real and anti vax and the statewide numbers and broad statistics prove it. Hello!!! Red states = less vaccines… where’s the biggest hospitalizations and morbidity? I mean it’s over dude… the stars on every channel when you remove the talking head are clear as day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Edward64]

I think I knew the below already.

Covid vaccinations in the US: Here's what we know about the people not getting the shot | CNN

1. They're more likely to be Republicans than Democrats. Most polling (see here) shows that somewhere between 50% and 60% of Republican adults are vaccinated compared with 80% to 90% of Democratic adults.

2. They're likely to be younger. About 90% of Americans age 65 and older have received at least one dose (see here and click on age), while only a little more than 50% of those age 18-24 have. That percentage is even lower for 12- to 17-year-olds.

3. They're likely to be Black or Hispanic. This is a harder number to come by because it's not tracked by every state agency and sample sizes on polls are smaller, but among the entire population and the states that are tracked, about 48% of White Americans have received at least one dose compared to 41% of Hispanics and 38% of Black Americans (see here). (Nearly two-thirds [65%] of Asians have.)
:
We see this in state after state. Blacks and Hispanics make up a lower share of those who are vaccinated than of the overall population. That's been the case since the beginning of the vaccination campaign and unfortunately continues to be.

About a third of the eligible population has refused to take a dose. But that drops as you go up the age ladder.

The reasons they give

Republicans actually basically give a slew of different answers (which may be code for saying they just don't want it no matter what). Somewhere between 46% and 55% say the vaccine is too new, side effect worries, just don't want to get it, don't trust the government, don't think they need it, don't think they need it, etc.

Compare that to Black Americans, the two top answers by far are vaccine is too new and worried about side effects (55%). Among those under 30 who haven't received a dose, 65% say they don't think they need one is a major reason.

FWIW, for me the key takeaway on vaccine hesitancy is beyond the simple Trump/GOP vs Democrats. No doubt there is more Trump/GOP that are unwilling but there are other dimensions to factor in such as age and race (mistrust of government, mistrust of science etc.).

[Edward64]

Hard to understand the severity but article says it was due to airplane cleaners (which implies it originated from passengers on the plane). I'm all for screening passengers, not just being fully vaccinated but also negative test a couple days before. Even with the screening though, I think flying on a plane (especially internationally, thinking of you PM) is a crap shoot right now.

I do hope China can control the spread. Removing human rights/freedoms from the equation, it's pretty obvious they did a great job specifically in containing the spread last year. They share borders and have easy access to way too many Asian countries. Good thing the traditional mass traveling for Chinese NY isn't around the corner.

In China, A Coronavirus Delta Variant Outbreak Spreads To 15 Cities : Coronavirus Updates : NPR

More than a year and a half after the coronavirus was first detected in China — followed by the world's first big wave of COVID-19 — the country is again battling to stem the spread of new cases attributed to the more infectious delta variant of the virus.

The latest outbreak was first discovered in the eastern city of Nanjing, in the coastal province of Jiangsu south of the capital, Beijing. In the past week, it has quickly spread to 15 cities across the country, the South China Morning Post reports.

In the most recent outbreak, the first case was detected on July 20 in a passenger arriving from Russia at the international airport in Nanjing — a city of more than 9 million. Since then, at least 184 new infections have been found, Reuters reports.

[Flasch186]

@edward thank you

It may not be 💯 but it’s damn sure closer to it than 0 on the spectrum of why they’re doing it

Even they will twist themselves into pretzels to justify why instead of just saying they have doubts because the people they’ve been listening to have told them to doubt it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

@brian no, you’re wrong and twisting into pretzels to claim you’re right

We’re all saying that the broad red tribe has blended their political bend, their leaders misinformation and attack the liberals no matter what into denying covid is real and anti vax and the statewide numbers and broad statistics prove it. Hello!!!

I'm not the one twisting. This is not the same thing as what you were claiming earlier in the thread. Meanwhile my position hasn't changed. You have zero evidence, none whatsoever, that I've twisted anything. I've cited hard data and let the chips fall where they may based on that. You've grossly exaggerated the information you've cited, and disregarded entirely that which doesn't fit your narrative. It's pretty clear who is doing what here.

Anybody who has been through an entry-level statistics course can tell you that the statewide numbers & broad statistics do not support the degree of impact that you have asserted. It would be like me claiming that we have environmental problems because the majority of the highest-polluting states are blue states - an absurd and facile argument that is only skin deep.

[Flasch186]

It’s a comparison of red people versus blue and the motivations of those red to not get vaccinated

What do you think we’re talking about

As a comparison you just have nothing to disprove the myriad of stats flooding at you but you can continue to deflect if you want to

The fact is a LARGE % that have chosen not to get vaccinated have done so because they’re entrapped by the MAGA motivations which corresponds to the other planks of the beliefs so you can see the circle. In turn they also tribally want to stick it to the libs which also correlates and unfortunately is getting them killed.

Can you find anecdotal outliers and convince yourself that since it’s not 💯 that it is untrue but it’s just fantastic. Facts are facts and this is basic.

That being said I also recognize that debate on what is like basics here imo it’s not accomplishing anything and you’ll never see the same thing others are seeing and that’s fine but in the mean time, the above statements I’ve made and people’s intransigence is getting them killed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Go back and read some of the stories from the AIDS crisis in the 80's and tell me people were not restricted from basic activities due to their medical conditions, PERCEIVED medical conditions, or political beliefs.

I respectfully disagree. There was a good deal of hysteria with the AIDS crisis but nothing that remotely approached the scale of what has happened during the COVID pandemic. There hasn't been anything of this magnitude in modern history, both in terms of the health threat and the reaction to it. I just don't think anything related to COVID can rightly be compared, the situation is just far different in terms of scope, magnitude, etc. unless you go back to pre-modern times in which case there are a whole host of other distinctions that make it not relevant either.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

It’s a comparison of red people versus blue

Just yesterday you said it wasn't:

Originally Posted by Flasch186

The argument isn't how many in each

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Can you find anecdotal outliers and convince yourself that since it’s not 💯 that it is untrue but it’s just fantastic. Facts are facts and this is basic.

Literally nothing I've been saying is about finding outliers. I also didn't say it had to be 100%, but you yourself said it was nearly that:

Originally Posted by Flasch186

The GREAT majority of those against the vaccine, and I mean GREAT, are in the category above (see my post that listed their pattern of support in the post I listed way up on the other page). They're consistent with their tribe and that is 99% political first and then scrambling for reasons other than political to support their already decided notion.

I've shown that a significant number of those who don't want the vaccine aren't even part of the red tribe. You literally don't have to go any further than that. If you aren't in the tribe, you can't be making a decision based on loyalty to that tribe that you aren't loyal to in the first place. Just to repeat one of the key data points that continues to be ignored, a third of those who say they aren't getting the vaccine are not Republicans. Even if you assume that 100% of those who are Republicans are doing it because MAGA - which again the polling doesn't support at all - the claims you made about the degree of political motivation among the unvaccinated *still* wouldn't pass muster.

You are right about this being about facts and being basic. Which makes it all the more amazing that you simply won't engage with most of those facts so far. I hope you will choose to do so.

[Danny]

In California I definitely know some people who are far from being republican and against the vaccine. These tend to be either anti trusting government/ everybody paranoid individuals or more natural remedy not into anything pharmaceutical (this group tends to be very liberal)

[thesloppy]

Lost in this pedantry is the fact that the messaging is practically entirely split across party lines & while there certainly may be many individuals that identify as liberal/progressive/Democrat who are anti covid-vaccination those folks can all point to elected officials in positions of authority that actively support & enable that position & practically every one of those officials is Republican.


Further, the suggestion that there are many Democrats who are anti covid-vaccination now, which proves that the current vaccine hesitancy is non-political, is based on some fantasy where the anti-vaccination movement didn't exist before covid. The fact that covid vax deniers are 30% Democrats isn't remarkable because it isn't 100% Republican, it's remarkable because just a decade before covid/Trump vax hesitancy was a 50/50 split in terms of party affiliation. When taken in context that figure only supports the suggestion that this is political, rather than disproving it.

[Flasch186]

Stop

You must be lying and skewing facts


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

there certainly may be many individuals that identify as liberal/progressive/Democrat who are anti covid-vaccination those folks can all point to elected officials in positions of authority that actively support & enable that position & practically every one of those officials is Republican.

That hasn't prompted significant numbers of Democrats to view Trump favorably or support Republican policies they'd otherwhise be against. If people in leadership positions caused them to be anti-vax, they'd also be causing them to agree in other areas. We can't just cherry-pick this issue and say GOP pols pushed them in this area but had no discernible affect in others. That is a far more relevant context.

[Edward64]

As is often the case after 3+ pages, the original discussion topic is no longer clear due to tangents and nuance that were not present originally. Suggest the affected group may want to concisely and succinctly recap their position ... or just let it die on the vine.

********

Now to some more polling data. Just saw this in NYT and it's analysis on just who these vaccine hesistant/refusenik critters are.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/31/u...americans.html

As coronavirus cases rise across the United States, the fight against the pandemic is focused on an estimated 93 million people who are eligible for shots but have chosen not to get them. These are the Americans who are most vulnerable to serious illness from the highly contagious Delta variant and most likely to carry the virus, spreading it further.

It turns out, though, that this is not a single set of Americans, but in many ways two.

In one group are those who say they are adamant in their refusal of the coronavirus vaccines; they include a mix of people but tend to be disproportionately white, rural, evangelical Christian and politically conservative, surveys show.

In the other are those who say they are open to getting a shot but have been putting it off or want to wait and see before making a decision; they are a broad range of people, but tend to be a more diverse and urban group, including many younger people, Black and Latino Americans, and Democrats.

Why People Remain Unvaccinated

• Side effects 53%
• Waiting to see if safe 40%
• Don't trust vaccines 37%
• Don't trust government 27%
• Don't believe I need it 26%
• Other 16%
• Think other people need it more 11%
• Don't like vaccines 10%
• Doctor has not recommended 7%
• Concerned about cost 3

How Two Groups of the Unvaccinated Compare
Race
Wait and See vs Definitely not

• Black 22% 5%
• Hispanic 20% 11%
• White 49% 70%

(I don't get how the White polling can be greater than 100%)

Party
Wait and See vs Definitely not

• Democrat 39% 12%
• Republican 41% 67%

What May Motivate the Unvaccinated to Get a Shot
The question to the Wait & See group, the top 4 answers were (1) full FDA approval (2) available from personal physician (3) required to fly and (4) required for large gatherings.


The FDA approval is not something I've considered. But in retrospect, I can see it. Emergency Use Authorization = not fully tested. Don't know the FDA inner workings but assume this would normally take years which we obviously don't have.

As I proposed in a prior post, I believe Biden needs a really good "change program". It needs more PSA ads showing covidiots on ventilators/widowers etc. telling people to get vaccinated. It needs more black and hispanic celebrities using their platform to encourage followers.

The required to fly is a no brainer. Required for large gatherings like church is more problematic but would be nice. I don't get the available from personal physician ... are there GPs that don't have jabs available?

[Edward64]

As a special bonus, the article included a quote that I choked on.

“If it was really a pandemic, we wouldn’t have to be reminded daily of it. If we were in a pandemic, we would know it automatically. We wouldn’t have to have it shoved down our throats 24/7.”

[Brian Swartz]

I think that's a good example of how much differently people view the pandemic. From the perspective of a non-trivial amount of people, that's actually a perfectly reasonable thing to say. The pandemic hasn't affected them much, so they don't see it as being a real crisis.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I think that's a good example of how much differently people view the pandemic. From the perspective of a non-trivial amount of people, that's actually a perfectly reasonable thing to say. The pandemic hasn't affected them much, so they don't see it as being a real crisis.

I can see them saying it. However, to believe its not a "pandemic" because it hasn't affected them much (but they know has affected millions worldwide) is a pretty poor and selfish (?) definition.

Nevertheless, these folks fall into my Group #2. Never going to get them to change until there are literally bodies lying in the streets.

[Vegas Vic]

Here in Florida, we just recorded the highest one-day total of new COVID cases since the start of the pandemic. Governor Ron DeathSantis blames the surge on a "seasonal increase" due to more Floridians being indoors because of the hot weather with air conditioning circulating the virus.

Florida breaks record with more than 21,000 new COVID cases

[JPhillips]

Yesterday I was surprised at how many people were getting away with not wearing a mask in the Jacksonville airport.

[PilotMan]

I wore one for twenty something hours yesterday over 3 flights and 4 airports going home. I really don't know how medical professionals do it.

[Brian Swartz]

It didn't take me long to get to the point where I barely even notice I'm wearing a mask.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Yesterday I was surprised at how many people were getting away with not wearing a mask in the Jacksonville airport.

I'm more flabbergasted by reading shit like "only 60% of hospital employees vaccinated" or "only 37% of patient care technicians vaccinated". Florida way ahead of the pack showing how autumn will look elsewhere despite not even having super low vaccination rate among the older age groups.

People looking at the UK with their 95%+ ration for 50+ (since the start of July) are fooling themselves thinking "oh, but it's only 15/20% lower here !" when the real Denominator is: That's 4-5 times more people unprotected.

I truly wanna relax, but it just makes me insanely angry thinking about people i care about again having procedures delayed or some Shit because too many people even with a clearly considereably high risk refuse what is essentially a preventative wonder drug given it's still miraculous 90-95% risk reduction for hospitalisation all things (age, condition etc) being equal. And remember that average age in hospital has always been way lower than of those dying. Quite ironically many of the most vulnerable aren't the ones in hospital and especially not the ICU because they simply can't be effectively treated because they wouldn't survive mechanical ventilation (much less ECMO).

5000 idiots, seemingly half of them filming themselves, playing guerilla war with police in Berlin does not help feel more mellow.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

It didn't take me long to get to the point where I barely even notice I'm wearing a mask.

You must not wear glasses (e.g. fogging issue).

It took me a short while and little unease to get use to not wearing a mask. Mask free now but anticipating to mask up again soon.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Edward64

You must not wear glasses (e.g. fogging issue).

It took me a short while and little unease to get use to not wearing a mask. Mask free now but anticipating to mask up again soon.

I can’t believe this is a conversation now, but get masks with the metal strip on the top, pinch it across your nose… hey presto, no fogging

[CrimsonFox]

A Classic headline

WV Gov Wanted to 'Pee and Throw Up' Over Delta Variant Info

[cuervo72]

Yeah, this whole Delta variant thing though -- if this gets one side to finally worry, good -- they will finally maybe take this seriously. At the same time I feel like their take is going to be that up until now, we really didn't need to be worried (it was just the cold until it mutated), and we would have been better off and less fatigued if everyone hadn't been crying wolf this whole time.

[JPhillips]

I first saw this ridiculous argument yesterday. The vaccine stops the common variant from making you sick, but doesn't keep you from transmitting the virus, so it mutated because of the vaccine.

[sterlingice]

There are really not good numbers locally.

Weekly Average Of Daily New Covid-19 Positive Cases - Texas Medical Center

We've basically doubled cases each of the last 4 weeks. We were hanging out at 100-200 cases a day for about a month. But now we've gone to 300 -> 500 -> 1000 -> 2200. Not great, Bob.

Weekly Average Of Covid-19 Testing Metrics Across TMC Hospital Systems - Texas Medical Center
Test positivity: 2% for a month plus. Now 3.1 -> 4.2 -> 5.7 -> 9.1 (!) -> 11.5.

This is looking an awful lot like what we saw before the previous two awful spikes here (last summer was worse, in a lot of ways, than last winter here in Houston if you remember the stories about our hospitals filling up then). We were looking so good a couple of months ago, too. But, damn.

SI

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Edward64

You must not wear glasses (e.g. fogging issue).

Right you are. I'm borderline for them right now. Within the next few years it'll happen.

Edit: That's ... horrible news SI.

[Ghost Econ]

Had HR call me at noon because someone asked them why I was wearing a mask. I wanted to say, because I fucking can, but I left it at my daughter isn't vax eligible for a month and we have additional health concerns at home (wife has a heart condition).

I've had a few people ask and I've mildly explained it, but why the fuck go to HR about it.

[molson]

We had a really thoughtful employee email setting forth all the guidelines, which was important for a red state, in a public agency. Very specific guidelines. I'd rather vaccines be mandated across the board, (state law prohibits that), but at least we have rules like if someone comes into your office with a mask on, you have to put your mask on too. Nobody can ask anyone else about their vaccine status or their mask choice. And we did get a vacation time bonus if we are vaccinated (which was a tip-toeing around the rules, but a clear signal about what the office preference is.)

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

Had HR call me at noon because someone asked them why I was wearing a mask. I wanted to say, because I fucking can, but I left it at my daughter isn't vax eligible for a month and we have additional health concerns at home (wife has a heart condition).

I've had a few people ask and I've mildly explained it, but why the fuck go to HR about it.

That's just ridiculous. HR should have told them to shut the fuck up and warn them not to bother you.

[CrimsonFox]

sorry you had to deal with karen , ghost

[Arles]

We have a mask mandate on our production floor (but not in offices or cubes). I have noticed there are a group of people who feel that if 20-30% of people wear masks when they don't have to, it's going to eventually force them to wear a mask against their will. So, they lash out on anyone wearing a mask who isn't 100% required.

It's sad (esp when people have legit health reasons), but I have noticed it a bunch here in Arizona.