Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I would counter that most of the marks aren't searching for ROH or NWA. They're content to watch it on the boob tube and they have two good products right now in NXT and AEW while they have 2 average products in RAW and Smackdown. If they miss one it isn't a big deal because there are others to catch or DVR. I believe that you're placing your myopathy on the masses and that is a mistake. You're the unique one, not them. The product that is out there in NXT and AEW is good enough for them while not being good enough for you. Translated out to the folk that are like them and you there are a lot more them than you and boiled into viability AEW and NXT win as well as the Marks and while you might be frustrated you're frustration today is contrasted with the fact that a few years ago the MArks were the ones frustrated. They're not today.... you are.

AEW books (and hires) like The Dark Order punches.
Klondike Bill on Twitter: "Somebody stop the damn match! 🤣

#AEWDynamite

https://t.co/sIY0rzcnu5"

And the number of folks who find it "good enough" is going in the wrong direction rather quickly.

[RainMaker]

I was excited about AEW but I think it kind of sucks. My thoughts:

- How many fucking evil heel stables does one promotion need?

- Too much comedy crap. I get the need for comedy in the right spots but half the show is cheesy.

- Pushing these complete no-names to the top is dumb early on. You're a promotion with Kenny Omega. He should be in the main event scene. I want to see him do matches on TV with other stars. I don't want to see Jungle Boy and whatever that other guy is that got a title shot with Jericho a couple weeks ago. I get they're trying to build new stars, but how about use the ones you have first?

- Same goes for the Young Bucks. Maybe the best tag team in the world and they're doing mid-card crap. Why not make them champs right away and put on great matches with them for 6 months while they build up other tag teams?

- Show somehow expects that I know all these in-jokes from social media and YouTube. I don't follow that stuff.

- Company needs another big draw. Maybe he's washed up and pain, but AEW sure could use someone like Punk. Even if it's just to bring in eyeballs and get some of the other guys exposure. If Khan is in this for the long haul, just pay the man.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

- Show somehow expects that I know all these in-jokes from social media and YouTube. I don't follow that stuff.

Speaking of minority positions, I'd say that's probably one.

I'm not sure how many people are watching this who aren't equal/greater fans of the various YouTube accounts than they are of wrestling. Unfortunately for AEW/Turner, that's not a long-term sustainable model for a promotion or a TV show.

For me, the biggest thing AEW has done is downgrade my interest in BeingTheElite.

[JonInMiddleGA]

fwiw ... Nick Jackson's twitter account has disappeared today, and Matt just posted that after a decade it was "time to hit the X" along with "see you on BTE"

[Toddzilla]

FFS someone get Randy some crutches that are sized correctly

[Toddzilla]

Spoiler

and given that a few "best of Decade" lists had the Mark Henry fake retirement angle with Cena on it, I should have seen it coming lol

[RainMaker]

I can say that I'm not the audience WWE is going for.

[molson]

The WWE Network is such a mess right now. I cancelled a credit card to avoid an annual fee and I swapped out all my recurring payments. Simple enough, I do that a decent amount to accrue sign-up bonus points, but the WWE site said I couldn't do that there at that time. I figured it was just down, I'll try again later. They email me a week or so later and tell me they can't process my payment. I go to the site, still unable to change my credit card info. I email them and tell them that. They say I can't change my credit card info online anymore and I have to call them or send my credit card info via email. I'm not doing that, so I cancel the account and tell them that. (I periodically cancel the network anyway). They email me back and tell me I still owe them for the week, but if I send my billing address, email address, and name on the account, they can just "revoke" the subscription and I won't have to pay, I guess. Why do they need my permission or that info to revoke my membership? It's like a phishing scam but everything has been initiated through the WWE site. Not sure what to do now. My local newspaper lets me change my credit card info online but that's too much to ask for a company that made $900 million in revenue last year. I'm happy to pay $2.50 for my extra week, maybe I should just mail cash to Titan Towers.

[JonInMiddleGA]

WK 14 night one was awfully solid.

No major clunkers, multiple main event caliber matches.

Night 2 has a high bar to clear.

[Neon_Chaos]

Ospreay - Takahashi was amazeballs.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Ospreay - Takahashi was amazeballs.

The ring/floor/ring/floor sequence was jawdropping. Replay gave away the magic of it but at full speed it was a did-I-just-see-that moment.

(One of several times last night the camera uncharacteristically caught stuff that shouldn't have been caught)

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by molson

The WWE Network is such a mess right now. I cancelled a credit card to avoid an annual fee and I swapped out all my recurring payments. Simple enough, I do that a decent amount to accrue sign-up bonus points, but the WWE site said I couldn't do that there at that time. I figured it was just down, I'll try again later. They email me a week or so later and tell me they can't process my payment. I go to the site, still unable to change my credit card info. I email them and tell them that. They say I can't change my credit card info online anymore and I have to call them or send my credit card info via email. I'm not doing that, so I cancel the account and tell them that. (I periodically cancel the network anyway). They email me back and tell me I still owe them for the week, but if I send my billing address, email address, and name on the account, they can just "revoke" the subscription and I won't have to pay, I guess. Why do they need my permission or that info to revoke my membership?

There are so many PCI violations in this statement it would drive my security/risk guy off a cliff.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The ring/floor/ring/floor sequence was jawdropping. Replay gave away the magic of it but at full speed it was a did-I-just-see-that moment.

(One of several times last night the camera uncharacteristically caught stuff that shouldn't have been caught)

Definitely one of the best wrestling spots I’ve ever seen. They went from 0-100 in a split second, clearly was choreographed to hell, didn’t botch it, and all the flippy stuff had a purpose!

I had the same reaction when I saw the Rollins stomp to RKO finish at Mania a couple of years back.

[JonInMiddleGA]

WK14 night two. Just as the opening match (Liger retirement)ends, the English stream crashed worldwide.

Got it back up after 1 match+ but the framerate is pretty bad.

What a disastrous epic fail for a company seemingly desperate to make inroads in the U.S. Unfortunately, their tech isn't ready for prime time.

[Neon_Chaos]

That was a great main event.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

That was a great main event.

I'm in the "shouldn't have gone with the post-match the way they did" crowd.

There are times -- and this was one of them -- that I sense an almost Vince-like arrogance from NJPW.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'm in the "shouldn't have gone with the post-match the way they did" crowd.

There are times -- and this was one of them -- that I sense an almost Vince-like arrogance from NJPW.

That heat was nuclear though, specially with the Japanese crowd.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

That heat was nuclear though, specially with the Japanese crowd.

I've seen two completely different takes about that, from multiple sources that were in the building.

Some say it was nuclear, especially on the path wrestlers take to the exit.

Others say it was like all the air left the building and it was more of (another) disappointing end to a show (remember, 2 years ago the crowd simply up & left en masse rather than stick around for the traditional end to the show)

I know the crowd noise was pretty good on TV but it was clear throughout both nights that they had it miked it up harder than usual too.

--
Also worth noting I think - walkup sales for day two did not meet expectations (nearly 10k more in the building night one than night two). The absence of build clearly hurt the 2nd night, plus things were frontloaded to night one except for the main.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Liger retirement ceremony ... mercy, all the feels.

The taped message from Inoki took it to the next level (the crowd didn't pop, they gasped). Lots of tears around the ring and in the ring.

31 years, 5500 hundred matches. And the introduction to Japanese wrestling for so many.

After that, no complaints from me about a 3rd straight late night / overnight show. It was worth it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

No matter what the reaction was/wasn't in the Tokyo Dome, last night's smaller venue for Dash certainly reacted at nuclear levels to KENTA.

I've never heard a crowd in Japan boo at anything near that level. And the chants directed his way were mostly "Go home". It was Memphis-level heat, fear-for-his-safety kind of heat if that were a regional crowd of the 70s.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

No matter what the reaction was/wasn't in the Tokyo Dome, last night's smaller venue for Dash certainly reacted at nuclear levels to KENTA.

I've never heard a crowd in Japan boo at anything near that level. And the chants directed his way were mostly "Go home". It was Memphis-level heat, fear-for-his-safety kind of heat if that were a regional crowd of the 70s.

Have to give it to Gedo. He knew what buttons to push

[RainMaker]

I just caught up with it all and it was really enjoyable. Ending felt like WWE a bit but I think it was made special because NJPW doesn't do that kind of stuff often.

I still like the guy but wasn't that into Moxley over the weekend.

Okada is the best wrestler I've ever seen in my life.

Also what are the plans with the dual belts? Defend them individually? Merge them?

[JonInMiddleGA]

I still like the guy but wasn't that into Moxley over the weekend.

Out of curiosity, did you see Dash yet?

Also what are the plans with the dual belts? Defend them individually? Merge them?

Still TBD (well, I'm sure they know, but nothing official has been said yet). Could find out more as early as tonight when they hold a post-WK14 corporate press conference.

[JonInMiddleGA]

NJPW announces cards for next U.S. tour

Underwhelming.

Yes, they send Tana and Ibushi, GoD, FinJuice, and The Dads.
Padded with Young Lions, Rock & Roll Express, and Jeff f'n Cobb.

No Suzuki-gun aside from Archer, no Chaos aside from Rocky & Yoshi f'n Hashi, and no LiJ

Bottom line is that aside from young lions (who are cool if green) I've seen roughly half the rest of the talent for Atlanta on ROH shows in the past 18-24 months.

At NJPW ticket pricing, it's not a good deal at all IMO.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Out of curiosity, did you see Dash yet?

Still TBD (well, I'm sure they know, but nothing official has been said yet). Could find out more as early as tonight when they hold a post-WK14 corporate press conference.

Just watched. Might be back on board.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Just watched. Might be back on board.

incidentally, the first defense (vs Kenta) on 2/9 will be for both belts

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

incidentally, the first defense (vs Kenta) on 2/9 will be for both belts

Ehhh that's the problem with the two belts bit. Tough to separate them again.

Also CM Punk continues to have the thinnest skin.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Ehhh that's the problem with the two belts bit. Tough to separate them again.

Naito opened up that subject in (I think it was) an interview this week. Something to the effect that he'd be happy to defend both against people who deserve it (he named the other 3 participants from the double dash) but not against people who weren't worthy of a shot at both.

Also CM Punk continues to have the thinnest skin.

I saw a small bit of that mess, I'm pretty much in the Fuck Phil camp. The dude is talented but he also seems to be an unbearable ass.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Dirt sheet veteran Mike Johnson is reporting that Marty Scurll has renewed his contract with ROH (length undisclosed) but with a twist I didn't see coming: he's getting the book, with Hunter (Delirious) Johnson effectively demoted to support for Scurll.

He's also apparently allowed to continue working for the NWA

[SirFozzie]

RIP AAA La Parka (who died yesterday after injuries from a wrestling match in November)

The original La Parka (LA Park) is still alive

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Dirt sheet veteran Mike Johnson is reporting that Marty Scurll has renewed his contract with ROH (length undisclosed) but with a twist I didn't see coming: he's getting the book, with Hunter (Delirious) Johnson effectively demoted to support for Scurll.

He's also apparently allowed to continue working for the NWA

Sounds like it was a sweet deal he got. Sad he won't be on a bigger program but I guess it is good to keep places like ROH in the picture.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Catching up on the recent NXT:UK Takeover.

Lots of talent on hand, lots of entertaining guys ... but few that I think they could get over in the U.S. at the main brand level :/

[SirFozzie]

AEW gets extended with TNT through 2023, includes a 2nd AEW weekly show.

[miami_fan]

WWE Hall of Famer Rocky Johnson passes away | WWE

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Catching up on the recent NXT:UK Takeover.

Lots of talent on hand, lots of entertaining guys ... but few that I think they could get over in the U.S. at the main brand level :/

All I can think of is Walter and the mustache mountain guys. And even they are probably relegated to tag team and cruiserweight stuff.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

All I can think of is Walter and the mustache mountain guys. And even they are probably relegated to tag team and cruiserweight stuff.

I don't think they'd manage to handle Tyler Bate correctly even.

You could make a helluva NWA roster out of just the guys WWE will never figure out how to do anything with (except pay them)

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

includes a 2nd AEW weekly show.

And this is what will kill any hope AEW had

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

And this is what will kill any hope AEW had

Eh, in this set of circumstances as announced it probably won't do as much damage as another full show would.

The plan appears to be to take the stuff they're already doing for Dark and reconfigure it into the extra show, along with some backstage kinda stuff.

Basically they aren't going to be screwing up their booking that much more than they already are.

[RainMaker]

Jon will not like this but I laugh at the Orange Cassidy stuff. It's so dumb and cheesy but he plays the role so well.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Jon will not like this but I laugh at the Orange Cassidy stuff. It's so dumb and cheesy but he plays the role so well.

Oh I think he's great, at the indy level.

I don't think it translates remotely well enough to be on national television, it's gaining zero new viewers & likely costing them viewers that sample the product.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Eh, in this set of circumstances as announced it probably won't do as much damage as another full show would.

The plan appears to be to take the stuff they're already doing for Dark and reconfigure it into the extra show, along with some backstage kinda stuff.

Basically they aren't going to be screwing up their booking that much more than they already are.

I just feel like mor shows makes your primary show less appointment TV. Im sure thats not an opinion many share...but whhen it was just Monday night I couldnt miss it...even if that meant DVR it...when its multiple nights..who cares if I miss t Ill have wrestling again in a couple days.

Im probably not the targeted consumer though

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I just feel like mor shows makes your primary show less appointment TV. Im sure thats not an opinion many share...but whhen it was just Monday night I couldnt miss it...even if that meant DVR it...when its multiple nights..who cares if I miss t Ill have wrestling again in a couple days.

Im probably not the targeted consumer though

In this case though the 2nd show is closer to being a WCW Saturday Night: WCW Nitro relationship than to a Thunder:Nitro relationship.

If they don't change anything on the main show, it should be about as stand alone as it was already (

[RainMaker]

I don't remember how WCW Saturday was used. I do worry about oversaturation. It has made WWE unwatchable and what I enjoyed about NXT.

But if they use the show to profile wrestlers not on the main show and maybe push promos and vignettes to get stories over, that'd be fine. I just don't want to have to watch more shows to keep up.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't remember how WCW Saturday was used.

It was largely ... disposable. Throwaway matches just to get guys on TV, get some lower midcarders wins.

Now Dark has been stronger than that at times but here's the list of six matches they taped for future shows this week

I'll spoiler tag them in case we have someone who awaits the airings of Dark with bated breath but there isn't anything there that's exactly earthshaking. Basically out of 16 participants across 6 matches, there's only one (maybe) main eventer and only 3-4 other names that could be considered more than midcarders at best.

Spoiler

results from mandatory.com

Big Swole def. Diamante.
Nyla Rose def. Shanna in a tables match that will likely need to be edited.
Dark Order def. Sonny Kiss and Brandon Cutler in a squash match. Cutler didn’t even get to tag in.
Jurassic Express def. Stronghearts.
Joey Janela def. Rey Fenix, who is possibly injured. He was slow to get up and wasn’t selling Janela’s elbow drop.
Kip Sabian def. Michael Nakazawa.

[RainMaker]

Am I the only one who hates whatever it is they have Brandi Rhodes doing?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Am I the only one who hates whatever it is they have Brandi Rhodes doing?

I pretty much hate ANYTHING Brandi Rhodes does so ....

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I pretty much hate ANYTHING Brandi Rhodes does so ....

She's a decent heel manager for when Cody is a heel. But her new shtick is just weird and cringey.

[SirFozzie]

She wasn't supposed to be wrestling on wed.. she was filling in for awesome Kong who was not cleared

[RainMaker]

I don't care about the wrestling stuff, I just find her gimmick and stable to be lame.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If it weren't for bad luck, NJPW might not have any when it comes to touring the U.S.

Kota Ibushi struck with influenza; to miss New Beginning USA tour�NJoA】 | NEW JAPAN PRO-WRESTLING

The cards were already on the lean side, now they're kicking off their big U.S. push with a single true main eventer on the tour.

The biggest draw for us for Atlanta is, at this point, probably the very cool limited edition t-shirts (each market - except weirdly Raleigh so far - gets one, ala Metallica's city-specific tour shirts last time out).