Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[Racer]

Unprecedented two-night WrestleMania to be hosted by Rob Gronkowski on WWE Network | WWE

Wrestlemania will now be split into two nights (Saturday, April 4th and Sunday, April 5th). I think this is definitely preferable if the total combined time is 3+ hours.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

They should have just one, single fan there and mic 'em up for his/her reactions to all the over-the-top shenanigans & intros.

With their luck they'd pick somebody that actually has the virus.

[thesloppy]

haha

booooOOOoo *cough*

[miami_fan]

I am stunned Vince allowed them to actually take the test.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alfredk.../#1d5297bc4aa4

[SirFozzie]

they didn't. They're just sick. (reading the article) The second the WWE has a positive test, they go into shutdown. They are desperately trying to get WM taped and maybe a few weeks of TV before that happens.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

they didn't. They're just sick. (reading the article) The second the WWE has a positive test, they go into shutdown. They are desperately trying to get WM taped and maybe a few weeks of TV before that happens.

My bad, I did not proofread what I posted. I would be stunned if Vince allowed them to be tested.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

My bad, I did not proofread what I posted. I would be stunned if Vince allowed them to be tested.

That made me think of Rey and Dana locked in a room, with angry Vince McMahon doing his best to keep a doctor with "COVID-19 test". "NOOOOOOO! I CAN'T LET YOU! I WON'T LET YOU! WE STILL HAVE 31 HOURS LEFT TO TAPE PLUS A RESHOOT OF THE AJ STYLES-UNDERTAKER BRAWL!"

Admit it, you could see it, as a skit in WWE, or in real life.

[SirFozzie]

Chris Jericho cut a promo.

On a drone.

And it worked. Somehow.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Chris Jericho cut a promo.

On a drone.

And it worked. Somehow.

AEW has been surreal the last 2 weeks with no crowd, which is as vital in wrestling as it is in any form of entertainment. But they still have put on a couple of really good shows.

[RainMaker]

Reigns is out of Wrestlemania. Makes sense with his medical history.

[molson]

Time for Hogan to get his win back!

I will also settle for Gronk v. Goldberg.

[RainMaker]

Rumors floating around now that Edge is refusing to do it along with a bunch of others like the Usos. Guess Miz might be sick.

Really not sure why they're doing this.

[molson]

The news is starting to come out about Mania now because it's already been taped.

Health-wise, the show isn't any different than any of the other shows they or AEW have done the last few weeks. I think everyone that has pulled out of Mania also hasn't been wrestling the last few weeks anyway (Reigns, Edge, Owens). Sounds like Goldberg pulled out but then they talked him into coming back.

I guess it didn't really make a difference if they ran a show called "Wrestlemania" if they were going to continue doing wrestling on other shows. Meltzer wrote something about Vince just wanting to get it over with so they can start fresh with different storylines down the road. I could see them going on a hiatus from wrestling after Mania airs. AEW seems like it will keep going through.

Miz showed up to the Mania tapings sick right after posting photos of himself in a small hottub with John Morrison and Zach Ryder. That pissed some people off I guess. There's always that guy.

Meanwhile the WWE is selling this shirt:

WrestleMania 36 "I Wasn't There" Authentic T-Shirt - WWE US

[RainMaker]

Isn't Reigns-Goldberg and Edge-Orton the two biggest matches of the show?

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Isn't Reigns-Goldberg and Edge-Orton the two biggest matches of the show?

Yup, and those guys (and Owens) have been promoting those matches on TV, but a lot of that stuff might have been taped weeks ago before things escalated further.

I think the biggest matches ended up being Brock/Drew, Goldberg/Braun, Cena/Wyatt and Undertaker/Styles. But who knows, it looks like there's not a lot of leaks aside from which guys worked and which didn't.

[Maple Leafs]

According to Meltzer, the reports about Edge, Owens and a few others were false, and they did their matches.

Reigns and Miz didn't.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Wrestlemania Night 1 so far: the good news is that everybody is trying hard

The bad news is that the limitations of empty arenas are simply too much to overcome for any length of time.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Wrestlemania Night 1 so far: the good news is that everybody is trying hard

The bad news is that the limitations of empty arenas are simply too much to overcome for any length of time.

KO and Seth Rollins: Hold my beer...

[Toddzilla]

THAT was probably the greatest thing I've ever seen in professional wrestling.

[JonInMiddleGA]

FTR, I'm on the pro side of the Taker-AJ segment. I don't like "cinematic wrestling" but I'm not sure anyone has ever done a more polished take on it than what we saw tonight. The creative for Broken Matt Hardy was superior but the lighting choices alone made this the new standard for presentation.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

KO and Seth Rollins: Hold my beer...

But is it better than Black vs Steen ten years ago in ROH? For me, not really. That doesn't make it bad, but it doesn't redeem the overall show for me.
The false finish here was the moment when I declared the booking of the show the Achilles Heel.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

FTR, I'm on the pro side of the Taker-AJ segment. I don't like "cinematic wrestling" but I'm not sure anyone has ever done a more polished take on it than what we saw tonight. The creative for Broken Matt Hardy was superior but the lighting choices alone made this the new standard for presentation.

And it sets a *very* high bar for the Cena-Fiend match tomorrow.

[JonInMiddleGA]

#BROKEN Matt Hardy
@MATTHARDYBRAND
·
23m
My twitter feed exploded.

Thanks for all the love, folks.. I’m truly honored. Cinematic matches 100% work with the right characters, scenario & fanbase - I envisioned them as a new branch of pro wrestling years ago.

Much like TLC did, The #BROKEN Universe will leave its mark.

[IlliniCub]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

FTR, I'm on the pro side of the Taker-AJ segment. I don't like "cinematic wrestling" but I'm not sure anyone has ever done a more polished take on it than what we saw tonight. The creative for Broken Matt Hardy was superior but the lighting choices alone made this the new standard for presentation.

It was also a great way to mask Undertakers shortcomings due to age. Undertaker got to look good instead of old and overexposed. I liked it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by IlliniCub

It was also a great way to mask Undertakers shortcomings due to age. Undertaker got to look good instead of old and overexposed. I liked it.

I am 100% certain that what we got was considerably better than anything that could have taken place in a traditional match in-ring.

Would I rather the spot have been used for a regular roster member? Most likely. But if they're determined to bring him back & use him, better what they did than most other options.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Legit possibility that the Vince puppet is the best WWE moment not involving an injury comeback since AJ Styles debuted. That it occurred in the middle of the worst moment since the birth of a hand almost seems appropriate somehow.

[RainMaker]

The "match" or whatever was weird. I won't knock it because I think wrestling in an empty arena sucks. Doing weird shit is fine.

[Toddzilla]

It would have been excellent as a lead-up skit to build for their match. In place of an actual match, however, it was hot garbage.

[Mota]

I hated it. I also hated the title match (but I liked the result). Lesnar and McIntyre made John Cena and his 5 moves of doom look like Dean Malenko. I mean, they only did finishers. It was terrible.
Remember when Lesnar did a Shooting Star Press? That seems so long ago. Now he only has two moves, German Suplex and F5.
I actually liked the Edge / Randy Orton match, and I know a lot of people hated that one. It was obviously too long, but they really made it feel like two guys that hated each other and weren't going to give up.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

I hated it. I also hated the title match (but I liked the result). Lesnar and McIntyre made John Cena and his 5 moves of doom look like Dean Malenko. I mean, they only did finishers. It was terrible.

Perhaps the biggest damning thing for their booking history was the fact that they had to run their top two titles in matches that lasted less than 10 minutes combined.

Remember when Lesnar did a Shooting Star Press?

Although in fairness on that specific one, the last time he did one he injured himself (that's actually talked about in the espn article on him that went up over the weekend).

I actually liked the Edge / Randy Orton match, and I know a lot of people hated that one. It was obviously too long, but they really made it feel like two guys that hated each other and weren't going to give up.

yeah, I didn't hate it, aside from going about 10 minutes too long.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Interesting to see who worked on the most talked about matches of the weekend (at least if you believe Melzer)

Michael Hayes & Trips, with significant input/help from Jeremy Borash
Wyatt & Prichard, with input from Cena.

No word on who worked on Edge/Orton

[IlliniCub]

When Lesnar wants to go he can go. He can bring it and might have had a very different looking match under different circumstances. Lensnar is credible. Goldberg on the other hand, think of the kayfabe behind this. Washed up former WCW champion can still defeat top talent in the company. If they want to bring him in as a nostalgia act sometimes, fine. Putting the title on him was stupid IMO.

[RainMaker]

I hate how everyone kicks out of the F5 now. I get it at Wrestlemania kicking out of one. But they've just killed that move over the years. Didn't Roman kick out of like 7 of them?

Stop ruining everyone's finisher.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I hate how everyone kicks out of the F5 now. I get it at Wrestlemania kicking out of one. But they've just killed that move over the years. Didn't Roman kick out of like 7 of them?

After they protected it for a full year, with nobody ever kicking out, because they wanted a big pop for when Roman did it. Then he did, and it got zero reaction, because everyone knows that big PPV matches have to have a half-dozen finishers for two-counts.

I don't even mind it anymore, but it would be nice if we could stop getting the big dramatic closeup of the guy looking absolutely stunned that somebody kicked out of his finisher. Dude, don't you watch your own matches, this happens every time.

Edit: Hate to say it, but we can blame the Undertaker/HBK matches for this trend.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

After they protected it for a full year, with nobody ever kicking out, because they wanted a big pop for when Roman did it. Then he did, and it got zero reaction, because everyone knows that big PPV matches have to have a half-dozen finishers for two-counts.

I don't even mind it anymore, but it would be nice if we could stop getting the big dramatic closeup of the guy looking absolutely stunned that somebody kicked out of his finisher. Dude, don't you watch your own matches, this happens every time.

Edit: Hate to say it, but we can blame the Undertaker/HBK matches for this trend.

I preferred the "studied" wrestlers who countered the finishers and barely blocked it many times, and the wrestlers had to work hard to get their finishers, to wear them down to open up the opportunity, and when they did it was almost always the end. To do a match with only finishers is just lazy.

Goldberg did 3 spears for his first 3 moves this weekend. You don't start with your finisher, at that point it might as well be an arm bar or a head lock.

[Comey]

Reading some stuff on Wyatt/Cena makes me want to see it. It sounds like something that a well-run eFed would try, like the Funhouse can be some sort of multiverse. The whole thing, I guess, was a total deconstruction of Cena’s character over the years. I find that kind of risk-taking fascinating.

I get some not liking that, and while I don’t watch anything these days, this sort of thing makes me love Wyatt as a creator. And props to Cena, who time and time again has been willing to go along with things. More than anyone else who got huge and then part-time, he has been for what’s best for business.

Goldberg was on the other end of the spectrum there.

I’m sure there are many people who don’t like the match/segment. But the fWo writer in me from twenty years ago is marking out hard. I gotta watch it now.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

yeah, I didn't hate it, aside from going about 30 minutes too long.

fixed

[JonInMiddleGA]

An interesting mix of names reportedly released by the WWE today. Cultaholic list was the first one I saw so here ya go

https://cultaholic.com/posts/update-...iS9jbK3chE2Z9w

- Drake Maverick (James Curtin)
- Curt Hawkins (Brian Myers)
- Karl Anderson (Chad Allegra)
- Luke Gallows (Drew Hankinson)
- Heath Slater (Heath Miller)
- Aiden English (Matthew Rehwoldt)
- Eric Young (Jeremy Fritz)
- EC3 (Michael Hutter)
- Lio Rush (Lionel Green)
- Kurt Angle
- Sarah Logan (Sarah Rowe)
- Mike Chioda


The likes of PWinsider, Sean Ross Sapp of Fightful and Alex McCarthy of Talksport are also reporting that the following names have been let go. However, WWE haven't confirmed anything relating to the following names at the time of writing:

- Dave (Fit) Finlay
- Lance Storm
- Mike Rotunda
- Shane (Hurricane) Helms
- Scott Armstrong
- Pat Buck
- Sarah Stock
- Shawn Davari
- Billy Kidman

[JonInMiddleGA]

Per various Tweets, add Erick Rowan, Primo, Epico, Mike Bennett, Maria Kanelis all to that list above

edit to add: Also Rusev, No Way Jose, and Zack Ryder

[RainMaker]

Wow, I guess they were sort of due on a lot of those guys. They seemed to be hoarding talent just to keep them from AEW.

The Rusev one is bizarre. Guy always seemed over with the crowds and seems like genuine guy. Just donated $20k to WWE staff that was out of work over this.

Ryder is weird because he's been there forever. Same with Slater.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Setting aside the issues of paychecks, relationships, etc, thinking solely about "who could make good use of someone" ...

I'd ike Rusev to NWA - a program with Aldis would not be bad. And probably gives the NWA a valid person to swap the title onto

I'd go with Hawkins/Ryder going a Best Friends-esque tour with NJPW and then send them to ROH (where they're already pals with the booker)

I'd also send EC3 to NWA as well, though maybe ROH is his 2nd best landing point

[RainMaker]

I feel like Ryder would be a guy that just does random indy shows and promotions around the country for awhile. He's probably fairly well off and would get a decent pop from any indy crowd.

Rusev to NWA would be great, but I don't see how they could afford him. He'd fit into AEW well because the company could use another big body and his personality would shine there.

I still think his wife is signed long term and I believe he's shown interest in getting into movies. So maybe he's just a guy who moves on from wrestling or does one off appearances.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I feel like Ryder would be a guy that just does random indy shows and promotions around the country for awhile. He's probably fairly well off and would get a decent pop from any indy crowd.

Rusev to NWA would be great, but I don't see how they could afford him. He'd fit into AEW well because the company could use another big body and his personality would shine there.

I still think his wife is signed long term and I believe he's shown interest in getting into movies. So maybe he's just a guy who moves on from wrestling or does one off appearances.

All true (though I do figure Ryder gets picked up by ROH for as much work as he wants, since him & Marty are buddies)

Otherwise I'm just fantasy booking

[molson]

Can the smaller promotions survive without live events, potentially until next year? Or beyond? I guess it's not like a regular sports league, they probably don't have to pay anyone and can just pause and hope for the best down the road.

I also wonder of the impact on the TV contracts of AEW and WWE. Obviously WWE played some politics to keep a live show going, I guess that satisfies the contracts and they still get paid. But if ratings are down, maybe the networks cancel or want to re-negotiate. Same with AEW, whatever their deal is.

[Scarecrow]

RIP: Howard Finkel

Howard Finkel dies: Legendary WWE announcer dies at 69

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Can the smaller promotions survive without live events, potentially until next year? Or beyond? I guess it's not like a regular sports league, they probably don't have to pay anyone and can just pause and hope for the best down the road.

Not sure they'll be much different than most businesses suffering through the shutdown. I figure maybe 1/3rd to 1/2 tops reopen.

I also wonder of the impact on the TV contracts of AEW and WWE. Obviously WWE played some politics to keep a live show going, I guess that satisfies the contracts and they still get paid. But if ratings are down, maybe the networks cancel or want to re-negotiate. Same with AEW, whatever their deal is.

Eh the ratings are fairly stable for AEW at this point. They're rather lackluster as programming goes but that seems to be enough to satisfy TNT so I sense mostly {shrugs] about it.

[RainMaker]

AEW probably feels pretty good about signing that TV deal when they did. I thought at the time it was a little early considering the massive money being thrown around for live content, but turns out they did well.

I would think the tiny promotions would survive. They likely don't have people on contract and just pay a per show basis for talent. They'd just go into hiatus for awhile.

The ones that seem to be hurt would be ROH, Impact, and other small outlets that have contracted wrestlers but no big TV deal (I think the smaller Japanese companies).

Also independent wrestlers who made a living traveling the country doing shows. If this goes on for a long time, will we see a lot of this talent move on to other ventures? Will this lead to a mass exodus of talent in the indies?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I would think the tiny promotions would survive. They likely don't have people on contract and just pay a per show basis for talent. They'd just go into hiatus for awhile.

I don't think the consumer economy will be around to support them to justify a return. Might see a show or two before they call it quits, but that's my expectation (same expectation I have for most small restaurants)

The ones that seem to be hurt would be ROH, Impact, and other small outlets that have contracted wrestlers but no big TV deal (I think the smaller Japanese companies).

I think it's a mixed bag in that tier. ROH exists largely as a loss leader for their owners, could go on indefinitely. Impact certainly remains on shaky ground,I guess MLW fits in that same tier kinda. NWA? Closer to ROH in terms of their situation I think.

Also independent wrestlers who made a living traveling the country doing shows. If this goes on for a long time, will we see a lot of this talent move on to other ventures? Will this lead to a mass exodus of talent in the indies?

Going to be a different landscape for sure. Certainly some on the edges will be looking for something different, though how much viable talent is even left on strictly indy deals is questionable at this point IMO. Most probably already have day jobs anyway. The comparison I see for the already somewhat limited number of guys might be rock bands that were just barely managing to avoid day jobs as it was. I expect a significant rollback in the number of bands in that tier, as they go back to day jobs if possible, dropping back to music being a strictly weekend / part-time hobby.

[RainMaker]

I wonder if NWA is in a better position because it never relied much on the crowd. They could probably pipe in some too in production.

I will say that wrestling in empty arena sucks. Just no atmosphere. Nothing feels special.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I will say that wrestling in empty arena sucks. Just no atmosphere. Nothing feels special.

I have no real desire to watch empty arena matches at this point.

I do - sincerely - respect the effort that various companies, workers, production crews, one & all made in producing that product. They tried.

In the end, it simply feels so off that it doesn't entertain me to watch.