Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I have no real desire to watch empty arena matches at this point.

I do - sincerely - respect the effort that various companies, workers, production crews, one & all made in producing that product. They tried.

In the end, it simply feels so off that it doesn't entertain me to watch.

Agree 100%.

They worked their asses off to try and make it work.

But it turns out that the crowd is essential.

[albionmoonlight]

Howard Finkle passed away :-(

[JonInMiddleGA]

Those who are fans of Botchamania should check out / keep an eye on the creator's Twitter (@maffewgregg). Vimeo is forcing him out because he "creates too much traffic" ... unless he'd like to pay them $10k annually.

His traffic? Averages 17.5k views per video there.

If that's "too much traffic" then, honestly, how does Vimeo even exist?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Jeff Hardy curtain jerking on the MITB preshow.

I ain't sure that's exactly something I ever figured to be typing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And before 930p, MitB is over.

That was weird, certainly. But not nearly as awful as I feared.
Okay, aside from the two sorta murders.

It was never going to be "good"in any traditional sense, that was out the window. But it wasn't godawful.

And was significantly better than either night of Mania.

[IlliniCub]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And before 930p, MitB is over.

That was weird, certainly. But not nearly as awful as I feared.
Okay, aside from the two sorta murders.

It was never going to be "good"in any traditional sense, that was out the window. But it wasn't godawful.

And was significantly better than either night of Mania.

I almost would have rather they just had a normal match on the roof. Yeah it was fun and the cameos were cool, but it just doesn't feel like wrestling. I'm kind of old school in that I'm not a huge fan of the pre-taped stuff anyway the way they are presenting it. I find it to be over edited. I appreciate the effort during this time, but in the regular matches I shouldn't be spotting cuts like it was a film. I say roll the tape and let them go mistakes and all.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by IlliniCub

I almost would have rather they just had a normal match on the roof. Yeah it was fun and the cameos were cool, but it just doesn't feel like wrestling. I'm kind of old school in that I'm not a huge fan of the pre-taped stuff anyway the way they are presenting it. I find it to be over edited. I appreciate the effort during this time, but in the regular matches I shouldn't be spotting cuts like it was a film. I say roll the tape and let them go mistakes and all.

Someone tweeted something that I can't shake now that I've thought of it this way: the weakest part of MitB was the rooftop. The silliness that got them up there was more entertaining to watch, was the better part of the "match" overall.

I've been pretty steadfast in my verdict that "the no fans stuff simply doesn't work" and I really don't feel like that's changed for me. Even the best stuff -- Rollins v McIntyre at MitB for example -- leaves me feeling like "that would have been a good bit better if there was a crowd to play off of".

Just stop would be my preference at this point as a viewer ... but if the choices for this particular event was "do what they did" or "just do it traditionally", I feel like what they did was the better of two bad options. Or at least the more worth watching for me.

*full disclosure: I only watched it at all because the kid is home and is more inclined to bother logging into the Network. We watched mostly because of the trainwreck potential the match had, so anything short of mocking it mercilessly is a case of exceeding expectations.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Aaaand Seth Rollins has apparently screwed Becky Lynch out of her title

[RainMaker]

I guess if there is a time to take off a year, it would be now.

[stevew]

Wrestling with no fan reactions is really awkward to watch.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Jim Cornette discussing watching Tamina work for the first time

"She's supposed to be Jimmy Snuka's daughter, right? I suspect the milkman."

[RainMaker]

Crazy thing is she has been with the company for a decade and is still terrible.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Crazy thing is she has been with the company for a decade and is still terrible.

His question was whether she's ever attended a single training class, there or elsewhere.

[RainMaker]

Did AEW have a small crowd? It seemed like it and despite it sounding like only 20-30 people, it made a huge difference. I need some kind of noise.

[SirFozzie]

it's the other wrestlers

[JonInMiddleGA]

Great random thing that some Cornette discussion made me think about.

All the now-familiar counter counter counter spots we see today, there really isn't enough in-the-moment reaction to it. You might see the frustration at the end of the sequence during the pose down that often follows but there really isn't enough visible/audible frustration as the sequence plays out.

[RainMaker]

Speaking of Cornette, he broke down during the Owen episode in the most Cornette way possible. Just a quick string of expletives.

Streamable - free video publishing

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Speaking of Cornette, he broke down during the Owen episode in the most Cornette way possible. Just a quick string of expletives.

I'm kind of in the Bryan Alvarez camp on the Vice stuff. It's well done, but it's about the farthest thing from what I want to put myself through watching in the current climate. I simply ain't willing to put myself through the downer of the Owen ep nor the Benoit ep, not right now, maybe not ever.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'm kind of in the Bryan Alvarez camp on the Vice stuff. It's well done, but it's about the farthest thing from what I want to put myself through watching in the current climate. I simply ain't willing to put myself through the downer of the Owen ep nor the Benoit ep, not right now, maybe not ever.

Benoit one was a bummer and just re-hashed what we all knew. Owen was better because it came from Martha's perspective.

The show is a downer although they have some fun episodes like New Jack and the Brawl for All this season. I still can't believe the promos New Jack would cut down South.

[IlliniCub]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'm kind of in the Bryan Alvarez camp on the Vice stuff. It's well done, but it's about the farthest thing from what I want to put myself through watching in the current climate. I simply ain't willing to put myself through the downer of the Owen ep nor the Benoit ep, not right now, maybe not ever.

I will say this, while obviously very emotional and sad, the Owen episode was amazing because it was the first time I really heard Martha and his children's perspective. I've long listened to the Hart family run down Martha and I really felt she came across well in the doc. She explained her motivations for everything and it made sense to me. I feel the other Harts almost felt like their loyalty to Pro wrestling was greater than their loyalty to Owen.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

All the now-familiar counter counter counter spots we see today, there really isn't enough in-the-moment reaction to it. You might see the frustration at the end of the sequence during the pose down that often follows but there really isn't enough visible/audible frustration as the sequence plays out.

Yeah but they have to save all their frustration so they can look absolutely amazed beyond comprehension that somebody just kicked out of their finisher for the 14th PPV match in a row.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'm kind of in the Bryan Alvarez camp on the Vice stuff. It's well done, but it's about the farthest thing from what I want to put myself through watching in the current climate. I simply ain't willing to put myself through the downer of the Owen ep nor the Benoit ep, not right now, maybe not ever.

You should at least listen to the post show discussion podcast Conrad Thompson does with the creators of DSotR.
Its distributed through his Jim Ross show. Very insightful and behidn the scenes story on how the sausage is made

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

You should at least listen to the post show discussion podcast Conrad Thompson does with the creators of DSotR.
Its distributed through his Jim Ross show. Very insightful and behidn the scenes story on how the sausage is made

Just so there's no mistake: I respect the quality of the work they're doing, me not watching is strictly a matter of my own emotional state.

[miami_fan]

I was looking at some clips of Mr Wrestling II on youtube and ended up getting into some Mid South clips. I was shocked to see the bumps that "old" Bill Watts was still taking at an advanced age. Then, I checked Wiki and based on his date of birth, "old" Bill Watts was in the advanced age range of 44-48 in the clips that I saw.

Perspective.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Post-match reports say that Edge suffered a torn tricep during the filming of his match with Orton for Backlash.

That's just some shit luck right there

[JonInMiddleGA]

Watching the first New Japan empty house show

Umm ... yeah.

It actually impacts the in-ring segments less than everything else, in part because Japanese crowds are typically quiet for a lot of the match anyway. As shows go, it feels off in other places though.

Their commentary set-up was comical. Three person Japanese announce team arranged as Person-Large TV-Person. The person on the TV is actually on the opposite side of the room, and watching the other two try to figure out how to interact with the TV screen was awkward.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Also, I'll note that most of the NJPW roster seems to have gained 7-15 pounds.

Very few seem to be immune to the Covid 15.

edit to add: Ishii vs Despe was G1 caliber. Heavier or not, that was first rate.

[RainMaker]

How do you get the NJPW events? I can't take much WWE and AEW is stale without a crowd.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

How do you get the NJPW events? I can't take much WWE and AEW is stale without a crowd.

Kid still has his NJPWWorld subscription active

We more than get our $ worth from it over the course of the year, tho this year is certainly not nearly the usual value obviously.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Suzuki vs Nagata saw more bombs landed than WWII.

That NJ Cup match was just absurdly classic NJPW. Not bad at all for two guys that combine to be 104 years old.

It ain't a match for everybody, but if strike for strike is your style, that was a good 'un.

[RainMaker]

So apparently Vince is running NXT which is why it sucks.now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Night ... whatever it is at this point ... Sho vs Shingo in the NJ Cup was a solid 4* match

Good storytelling in the looooong-term promotion sense.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Night ... whatever it is at this point ... Sho vs Shingo in the NJ Cup was a solid 4* match

Good storytelling in the looooong-term promotion sense.

Obviously I'm behind on my NJPW, I thought Sho and Yo were lower midcarders in the tag team scene.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

Obviously I'm behind on my NJPW, I thought Sho and Yo were lower midcarders in the tag team scene.

Both get singles chances now & again in tournament action. This New Japan Cup that's underway is a pretty thin field honestly, so anyone who is in country & on the active roster is probably in it.

That match was almost certainly the best match of Sho's career to date, and I suspect it's probably dangerously close to his ceiling for capability.

[RainMaker]

I never thought I'd say this but I kind of dig the Orange Cassidy character. They've actually kind of made it work.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I never thought I'd say this but I kind of dig the Orange Cassidy character. They've actually kind of made it work.

The dude is fantastic. It's one of those things where I heard about him way before I ever saw him and figured I'd hate the gimmick, but he's so perfect at it. The PPV match with whatever Neville's called now was brilliant.

No idea if it can actually be more than a midcard act, but it's one of the best midcard acts I've ever seen.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Tonight (i.e. Friday night Japan time), the semi finals of the New Japan Cup will air live on BS Asahi.

If I'm reading the translations correctly, this will mark the first time in 34 years that NJPW has aired live in primetime on regular Japanese television.

That's just kinda crazy to think about, given the number of hours we get weekly in the U.S.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'll avoid the outright spoiler and just say that I'm pretty sure NOBODY expected the surprise debut at NJPW Dominion tonight.

I'm also not sure more than two dozen people on the planet cared.

Either tonight's moves work better than I expect or it may be the beginning of the end for Gedo with the book.

[Toddzilla]

I DID NOT see that coming.

[JonInMiddleGA]

On a lesser note from Dominion, I'm amazed at the free pass that's been given to the tag title match by the IWC.

For as bad as I thought the main event was, I felt like that tag match was one of the least interesting, least watchable matches I've seen in NJPW in several years of pretty steady viewing.

And given the participants -- Tanahashi+Ibushi vs Taichi+ZSJ -- that's stupifying. It was just ... poor.

Tied to that, perhaps, was earlier in the show Okada worked the strangest match I've ever seen him work. To the point that I seriously question whether he's healthy atm or if he's got an extended layoff coming. His offense was so soft, his lifts were glaringly assisted to the point of being obvious, everything in that match screamed "he's not healthy" to me.

Dominion was IMO simply not good at all.

[molson]

I checked the Wikipedia page for last night's WWE Extreme Rules event, just to take a quick peak at what's going on in that company. I kind of find it interesting when I drift away from wrestling for a while and peak back just to see who's getting pushed, who the champions are now, etc. And this match result looked intriguing:

"Seth Rollins defeated Rey Mysterio Eye for an Eye match. The match could only be won when one competitor extracted an eye of their opponent"

Now that is a serious stipulation. So I had to watch the match finish, and well, Rollins did win fair and square.

Streamable Video

I didn't catch this on the video, but, reddit always has you covered with relevant screen shots on stuff like this.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...wVXsAImhS9.png

[RainMaker]

Turned on the last 15 minutes of Raw and I have no idea what that was.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Turned on the last 15 minutes of Raw and I have no idea what that was.

It'd been rumored for a good bit of the day. It's an ersatz fight club, run by Shane, with basically "realistic" brief no holds barred "fights" between various members of the roster. It's purportedly "somewhere backstage" at the Performance Center in an area with "limited access".

It's being reported as "something Vince wanted to have" but with little instruction to its structure or function. That bit fits well with the all-day rumors that the tapings today were "chaos".

[Toddzilla]

It was flaming horseshit. If you're gonna try a "worked shoot" program, at least make it somewhat realistic. That it was framed as being a "real fight" made the pulled punches, jump cuts, and other nonsense so much more jarring. I guess in a world where no one has ever seen the UFC or any MMA at all, it may have been a curiosity, but omg what an abortion.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It'd been rumored for a good bit of the day. It's an ersatz fight club, run by Shane, with basically "realistic" brief no holds barred "fights" between various members of the roster. It's purportedly "somewhere backstage" at the Performance Center in an area with "limited access".

It's being reported as "something Vince wanted to have" but with little instruction to its structure or function. That bit fits well with the all-day rumors that the tapings today were "chaos".

Imagine not tuning in to WWE for months and that's all I saw. I guess they had strippers or pole dancers too. Dolph Ziggler of all people was beating the crap out of someone. It made no sense.

[RainMaker]

Also isn't what they were doing just Chikara?

[Carman Bulldog]

Worse than Brawl for All?*

*To be fair, as much as the concept gets shit on today, I kind of enjoyed watching Bodacious Bart Gunn knock guys silly. If "Hands of Stone" Ronnie Garvin is World Championship material, you would think they could have done something better with the man with the real hands of stone. Instead they just had Butterbean kill him off.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Worse than Brawl for All?*

*To be fair, as much as the concept gets shit on today, I kind of enjoyed watching Bodacious Bart Gunn knock guys silly. If "Hands of Stone" Ronnie Garvin is World Championship material, you would think they could have done something better with the man with the real hands of stone. Instead they just had Butterbean kill him off.

I just read an article about this. They killed Gunn, because Steve Williams was supposed to win, JR had been pimping him as unbeatable, and they were pissed when Gunn beat him, because they had already paid Williams the winners purse, and had to pay Gunn when he won too. So they buried him.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I just read an article about this. They killed Gunn, because Steve Williams was supposed to win, JR had been pimping him as unbeatable, and they were pissed when Gunn beat him, because they had already paid Williams the winners purse, and had to pay Gunn when he won too. So they buried him.

Watch the dark side of the ring episode on it and thr podcast was eye opening

[albionmoonlight]

Apparently Marty Jannety talked on facebook this morning to killing someone when he was 13 and the guy tried to molest him. He did this unprompted in the context of complaining about a falling out with his girlfriend.