Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[RainMaker]

Dark Side of the Ring is back this week.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Dark Side of the Ring is back this week.

Watching the 1st episode about Pillman is up on youtube, watched it last night, what a disturbed and fascinating individual.

Edit to add link
https://youtu.be/NS25e3DZAU0

[JonInMiddleGA]

One of the most compelling characters the business has seen in several decades. And quite likely the last person who legit scared me when I met him.

Rest in peace.

ECW Original New Jack Passes Away - Wrestling Inc.

[BYU 14]

Oh damn, he was definitely one of a kind and took years off his own life to entertain the fans. Sucks, R.I.P

[PilotMan]

I just watched his DS Episode. It was disturbing in so many ways.

Check out the first comment on this article on a page I follow.

https://www.facebook.com/prowrestlin...50877221767092

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Check out the first comment on this article on a page I follow.

https://www.facebook.com/prowrestlin...50877221767092

Among other things he was a heat machine.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

One of the most compelling characters the business has seen in several decades. And quite likely the last person who legit scared me when I met him.

Rest in peace.

ECW Original New Jack Passes Away - Wrestling Inc.

Perhaps because he was in a business where people pretend to hurt each other, while he was trying to actually kill people.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

Perhaps because he was in a business where people pretend to hurt each other, while he was trying to actually kill people.

Up close, one on one (well, me + him + one guy who I'm thankful knew both of us and could vouch for me) ... you couldn't help but feel like his character was a toned down version of his reality.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well, WWE has a new runner-up to worst idea on screen since Mae Young giving birth.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Well, WWE has a new runner-up to worst idea on screen since Mae Young giving birth.

That is a REALLY REALLY REALLY high bar

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Well, WWE has a new runner-up to worst idea on screen since Mae Young giving birth.

The voodoo doll Alexa Bliss or the guy who has zombies as his stable? Going to have to be more specific these days!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The voodoo doll Alexa Bliss or the guy who has zombies as his stable? Going to have to be more specific these days!

Zombies eating Miz

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well that's a helluva wrinkle in things I didn't see coming


Will Ospreay To Vacate IWGP World Heavyweight Title Due To Neck Injury | Fightful News

[RainMaker]

The pandemic has not been kind to New Japan.

Velveteen Dream released by WWE. I really haven't followed the allegation stuff, but what a huge fall. Two years ago I would have pegged this guy to be one of the stars of the company in the future. Freakish athlete who was getting real good in the ring and played his gimmick to perfection.

[Toddzilla]

The only thing surprising to me about the Velveteen Dream release was that it didn't happen 2 years ago.

[RainMaker]

Pretty good AEW show. Interesting to see with a full crowd who is over. Hangman still ridiculously over and probably the future of the company. Was also nice to see how over Eddie Kingston was. Just cool to see a guy with his career finally get put in the spotlight like this. They probably should have done a title change for the tag titles tonight.

Also not sure if Jungle Boy is over or just that theme. But what a reaction.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Pretty good AEW show. Interesting to see with a full crowd who is over. Hangman still ridiculously over and probably the future of the company. Was also nice to see how over Eddie Kingston was. Just cool to see a guy with his career finally get put in the spotlight like this. They probably should have done a title change for the tag titles tonight.

Also not sure if Jungle Boy is over or just that theme. But what a reaction.

That's a very interesting thought for sure. For the last year, the companies have been able to book the wrestlers in the way they've wanted, without any input from the fans. It's Vince's dream. Now we're starting to find out if those pushes were the right ones, and if the storytelling of the past year has helped or hurt wrestlers.

[BYU 14]

Agree on the tag titles, the YB are just not all the company (I.E themselves) think they are IMO.

I have never gotten them and their ridiculous choreography, that is just a hodgepodge of all the cool stuff they can do with no tie in at all to match flow/psychology.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Agree on the tag titles, the YB are just not all the company (I.E themselves) think they are IMO.

I have never gotten them and their ridiculous choreography, that is just a hodgepodge of all the cool stuff they can do with no tie in at all to match flow/psychology.

I disagree with you about the Young Bucks. I'm so tired of watching the WWE tag team formula, it's literally the same match over and over again. It's stuck in the 80's, with the good guy getting beaten up, the hot tag, etc.

When you watch AEW or ROH tag team matches, including the Young Bucks, the formula is different. It's not always perfect, but they're at least trying to innovate. So to me, it's at least worth watching and not a fast forward like most WWE tag matches are.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Mota

I disagree with you about the Young Bucks. I'm so tired of watching the WWE tag team formula, it's literally the same match over and over again. It's stuck in the 80's, with the good guy getting beaten up, the hot tag, etc.

When you watch AEW or ROH tag team matches, including the Young Bucks, the formula is different. It's not always perfect, but they're at least trying to innovate. So to me, it's at least worth watching and not a fast forward like most WWE tag matches are.

I would really like something in between though and I think ROH does it better than AEW right now. I did enjoy Omega and Page as tag champs.

[RainMaker]

Moxley and Kingston had been on the losing end of stuff with the Elite for awhile now and thought it would be a nice bump for them to win it. Especially since all the heels were winning their title matches. You could always have the Bucks win it back a month down the road too. After that match, I don't think many people would be upset to see that feud continue for awhile.

The tag division just doesn't seem to have a good babyface team that would warrant the Bucks getting their comeuppance. Maybe they'll put Page and Cage together for awhile.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

. Maybe they'll put Page and Cage together for awhile.

From your mouth to the bookers ears, that would be nice, but you know Cage will feud with team Taz next, most likely Hobbs.

I don't know what the hell they are doing with Lance Archer, but he needs a much better push than he is getting. How about Archer and Page?

[JonInMiddleGA]

https://cultaholic.com/posts/braun-s...JH1TWKJPzfA7OY

Several WWE Superstars have been released today.

In a statement wishing them all the best with their future endeavours, WWE announced Braun Strowman, Aleister Black, Murphy, Lana, Ruby Riott and Santana Garrett have all been let go.

Considering Black just redebuted 2 weeks ago, I got next to nothing.

It would seem that creative and upper management (spelled Kahn at this point apparently) are not communicating on the intentions of the latter

[molson]

This and other things make it look like they are gearing up for a sale.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

This and other things make it look like they are gearing up for a sale.

Dunno if it's that or if the board is simply more actively in control now

New additions to the board yesterday included their Kahn, Steve Koonin (Atlanta Hawks CEO, former Turner Broadcasting exec), and Connor Schell (former head of content for ESPN)

And two new hires that actually work on stuff announced yesterday both came over from DAZN.

[RainMaker]

Most make sense. They aren't as interested in the wrestling aspect so guys like Black and Murphy who are great in the ring don't carry much weight in the company.

Really shocked at Braun Strowman being let go. The guy won a championship at Wrestlemania last year (and a fairly prominent match this year). And while he is green in the ring, you don't come across guys that size too often. No clue how they botched that so bad.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Most make sense. They aren't as interested in the wrestling aspect so guys like Black and Murphy who are great in the ring don't carry much weight in the company.

Really shocked at Braun Strowman being let go. The guy won a championship at Wrestlemania last year (and a fairly prominent match this year). And while he is green in the ring, you don't come across guys that size too often. No clue how they botched that so bad.

Interesting report from Fightful, says that outsiders are surprised by the release of Strowman but that the roster isn't, as he was on a 7-figure deal and that other works felt that the size of his contract made him vulnerable.

[dubb93]

Maybe I’m completely crazy and I know it isn’t going to happen.....but I’d love to see what Braun could make happen in Japan.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I would really like something in between though and I think ROH does it better than AEW right now. I did enjoy Omega and Page as tag champs.

The Omega/Page vs. Young Bucks match last year caught me by surprise as I hadn't read about it before watching it. I was mind blown at how it held my attention, and then I looked online and saw how highly it was rated. I don't remember the last time a tag team match had me that invested. So I give props to both teams for that.

I really enjoyed the Page / Omega run, with all the tension between them, somehow they would come together during the matches and kick ass, it was really entertaining.

[Carman Bulldog]

I would love to get into a current product that is consistently entertaining with a good blend of in-ring action and story telling.

I was watching NXT semi-regularly back from around the first TakeOver to TakeOver Dallas, so say early 2014 to early 2016.

I've never watched any AEW or New Japan, outside of seeking out the odd match here and there.

Is there anything currently out there?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

I would love to get into a current product that is consistently entertaining with a good blend of in-ring action and story telling.

I was watching NXT semi-regularly back from around the first TakeOver to TakeOver Dallas, so say early 2014 to early 2016.

I've never watched any AEW or New Japan, outside of seeking out the odd match here and there.

Is there anything currently out there?

That's really the strength of NJPW is recent years, though the past year or so has been ... inconsistent.

Whether it suits your taste or not I don't know, but I will say that their stories tend to be long. And I mean looooong. There are cases where stuff plays a role 5-10 years after it occurred. They do the best job in the business at remembering their own continuity.

[sabotai]

I started watching Dark Side of the Ring a few weeks ago when Vice uploaded a few episodes to Youtube and looked at the list of episodes. When I first saw the episode titled "The Ultra-Violence of Nick Gage", I thought 'I'll skip that since I have no idea who that is'.

Then a friend of mine told me about the episode a few days ago and I just finished watching it now.

Turns out that I did sorta know him. He grew up in the same town I did (the baseball pic they show is from one of the years I played (on another team) so I played baseball against him at some point) and his brother Chris was in the same grade as me. I had no idea Chris became a pro wrestler, and I had no idea he recently killed himself.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That's really the strength of NJPW is recent years, though the past year or so has been ... inconsistent.

Whether it suits your taste or not I don't know, but I will say that their stories tend to be long. And I mean looooong. There are cases where stuff plays a role 5-10 years after it occurred. They do the best job in the business at remembering their own continuity.

I was just getting into NJPW before the pandemic. The product has been kind of off since.

WWE - mostly unwatchable although I'll turn on a PPV now that it is part of Peacock

NXT - kind of sucks now that they changed the format and what it was supposed to be

AEW - probably the best and most accessible at this time. Could be a recency bias as they now have crowds which makes it seem far more entertaining

[BYU 14]

Crowds make such a difference, for both viewers in setting an atmosphere and how the wrestlers perform.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I was just getting into NJPW before the pandemic. The product has been kind of off since.

WWE - mostly unwatchable although I'll turn on a PPV now that it is part of Peacock

NXT - kind of sucks now that they changed the format and what it was supposed to be

AEW - probably the best and most accessible at this time. Could be a recency bias as they now have crowds which makes it seem far more entertaining

I'm all the way back at November 2020 with my AEW viewing. I'm really enjoying it right now. Pentagon vs. Rey Fenix at the title tournament was amazing. The next week, Pentagon against Kenny Omega was just as good. The Omega / Page tag title reign was amazing. They're starting to build up the Jericho / MJF feud, right now MJF is still trying to join the Inner Circle, but everybody watching knows it's gonna go bad on them. Sadly, I think I just watching Brodie Lee's last match. His TNT title run was short, but I liked how he decimated Cody.

WWE is completely unwatchable. I do try once in a while, and your attention is never paid off. The more you watch, the less it makes sense, since it is short term booked almost episode by episode. WWF-style is also a bad thing, as it prevents innovation. You're basically watching the same wrestling match since the 80's, with some evolution but very little.

NJPW is a show where your attention is strongly rewarded. I can't watch all the shows, but I do enjoy watching the tournaments and the big shows. When I watch the G1 Climax tournament, I'll only watch the actual tournament matches. I know I'm missing storylines, but those tournaments are pretty massive time investments.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

NJPW is a show where your attention is strongly rewarded. I can't watch all the shows, but I do enjoy watching the tournaments and the big shows. When I watch the G1 Climax tournament, I'll only watch the actual tournament matches. I know I'm missing storylines, but those tournaments are pretty massive time investments.

I'll endorse this take mostly (as the kid is catching up on Okada vs Takagi as we speak) but with a couple of addendums.

1) The past year or so, the minor shows, the "Road To ..." house shows, etc have become much more optional. I get the reasons for that but as long as you find a spoiler/recap source that's reliable (and there are quite a few) then you can skip those pretty much entirely at this point and still stay current. That probably wasn't quite as true 2,3,4 years ago.

2) G1 -- at least in the traditional format -- is tough for the viewer. There's a lot of awesome but it's an endurance test for fans no doubt. You can fast forward through a lot of the off-night tag matches well enough but I do still recommend watching the finishes & any post-match, cause there's often a lot of storyline advanced / created there. Plus they're meant to be the build for the next round of singles matches.

2b) Also, especially during tournaments & the last couple shows before any major event , the post-match press conferences are frequently very enlightening. They're usually on YouTube within 24 hours, with captions for translation, and really provide a lot more personality than the NJPW format lends itself to for 80-90 percent of the guys.

[JonInMiddleGA]

One thing for damned sure: you ever really get into NJPW, you'll be even more frustrated by the shit caliber camera work in the U.S.

There's a sequence in last nights title match that actually used some of their signature camera shots to false finish the viewer (they showed a series of shots that always says they're taking the match home) ... BUT watching the replays the sharp eyed viewer will note one key difference in the usual sequence that actually foreshadowed the eventual outcome.

I didn't explain that very well I fear, but it was cool as hell to realize what they did.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

(they showed a series of shots that always says they're taking the match home)

If the WWE did this, they'd get totally crushed for it.

[Toddzilla]

Latest WWE releases


Fandango
Ever-Rise (Chase Parker and Matt Martel)
Ariya Daivari
Tony Nese
August Grey
Tyler Breeze
The Bollywood Boyz (Sunil Singh and Samir Singh)
Marina Shafir
Curt Stallion
Arturo Ruas
Killian Dain

I don't know if most viewers will even notice

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Latest WWE releases


Fandango
Ever-Rise (Chase Parker and Matt Martel)
Ariya Daivari
Tony Nese
August Grey
Tyler Breeze
The Bollywood Boyz (Sunil Singh and Samir Singh)
Marina Shafir
Curt Stallion
Arturo Ruas
Killian Dain

I don't know if most viewers will even notice

Not a lot of significance on the list. I hate to see Dain go, Nese and Daivari can work a bit. This feels like cutting deadweight mostly though.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not a lot of significance on the list. I hate to see Dain go, Nese and Daivari can work a bit. This feels like cutting deadweight mostly though.

It also wrecks a good bit of Up Up Down Down

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

It also wrecks a good bit of Up Up Down Down

Yeah, we talked about that here in the batcave.

MY hunch? Woods will eventually be the odd man out. With the intention of pushing Kofi and Big E as singles guys, he may be dangerously close to surplus to needs.

[cartman]

RIP Mr. Wonderful

‘Mr. Wonderful’ Paul Orndorff Passes Away At Age 71 - Wrestlezone

[BYU 14]

[miami_fan]

A donation page dedicated to funeral expenses for one of the participants in the main even of the inaugural Wrestlemania makes me feel a kind of way.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Credit where it's due, I definitely did not anticipate the surprise appearance that wrapped up tonight's Impact Slammaversary

Spoiler

Good Brothers came down to congratulate Omega on his victory, just as they were about to "too sweet" each other the lights go out, and when they come back up Jay White (carrying the Never Openweight belt) appears at the head of the ramp. They invite him down, he's on his way ... and is attacked by FinJuice (Finlay faces White for that title shortly on NJPW)
so we don't know what King Switch was going to say to Omega/GB

I believe the number of promotions who had talent appear on the show tonight ended up being 6 in all. Impact is like ... Switzerland.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Glad they finally figured out what was ailing him. I'm not a big fan of the guy (or the character, hard to know which is which) but he's critical to NJPW's plans AND I don't wish him anything but good health

Ibushi suffering from aspiration pneumonia, off three NJPW shows

[Toddzilla]

I'm shocked (well, not really) that people are taking the "CM Punk is coming back" nonsense seriously. There ain't a snowball's chance he sets foot in the ring as a competitor - even though he's younger than Bobby Lashley it just isn't happening.

But if it does, I want to be there for the Punk / Colt Cabana deathmatch.

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

I'm shocked (well, not really) that people are taking the "CM Punk is coming back" nonsense seriously. There ain't a snowball's chance he sets foot in the ring as a competitor - even though he's younger than Bobby Lashley it just isn't happening.

But if it does, I want to be there for the Punk / Colt Cabana deathmatch.

Why do you think he won't? Good money and it sounds like everything would be on his terms.

[Toddzilla]

Every company has been willing to give Phil anything and everything he's wanted for a return for 7 years, and he never came back. What's changed between now and 3 months ago? 3 years ago?