Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[Flasch186]

countering CM punk w/ Becky Lynch should tell the wrestling world who is in charge now. WWE has completely lost its momentum just as AEW has started to go next level. Next Daniel Bryan and Bray Wyatt {WTF in a good way}

It's as if the WWE roster cannot wait to leave now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

countering CM punk w/ Becky Lynch should tell the wrestling world who is in charge now. WWE has completely lost its momentum just as AEW has started to go next level. Next Daniel Bryan and Bray Wyatt {WTF in a good way}

It's as if the WWE roster cannot wait to leave now.

Don't think that's why Becky showed up tonight. That was October ... but Sasha being unavailable changed the plans.

And AEW still lacks any ability to book week to week so {shrug} what difference does the talent make in the long run? Are attention spans so fucking short that spot show booking are all it takes to be fine?

Wait, don't answer that. I already know the nauseating answer.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Don't think that's why Becky showed up tonight. That was October ... but Sasha being unavailable changed the plans.

And AEW still lacks any ability to book week to week so {shrug} what difference does the talent make in the long run? Are attention spans so fucking short that spot show booking are all it takes to be fine?

Wait, don't answer that. I already know the nauseating answer.

I was going to say "yes" with a bit of a bone to throw for those of us (that used to watch) that like a bit of character development and longer stroylines. Honestly I'm not the audience anymore though. Now its mostly nostalgia

I guess I'm more intrigued by the business and politics than the actual show(s).

[JonInMiddleGA]

My night my actual be complete if they'd put Goldberg over here.

Not because I think Bill has any business being near a ring these days, heavens no.

It's just that Lashley is even less interesting, always has been.

And the interwebz meltdown would be glorious

[RainMaker]

Not really sure what the point of that was. Match was terrible, Goldberg looked terrible, and Lashley is the same boring champion.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Not really sure what the point of that was. Match was terrible, Goldberg looked terrible, and Lashley is the same boring champion.

The point, best I can figure, was to provide a reason for the rematch in Saudi.
Goldberg gets his revenge, the live crowd will love it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Aaaand they fuck up the main event.

First time in years a crowd would have been ecstatic with a Cena win ... and you fuck it up.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I guess I'm more intrigued by the business and politics than the actual show(s).

I haven't watched a full wrestling show in probably three years but I still listen to Meltzer's podcasts every week. I hear about something I want to check out, I find it on YouTube

It wasn't really a conscious decision, I just can't find the time and energy to sit through stuff. I do still watch a ton of of mid 80s wwf stuff on YouTube when I'm multi-tasking. I'll watch a random 80s squash match and I actually remember stuff the commentors were talking about from then before I hear them say it now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

With it becoming more clear by the day that WWE is going to be sold off, a disturbing thought hit me:

What if the buyer is .. Sinclair?

You think things have been bad for the past 2-3 decades? Sinclair would make VKM look like the greatest mind for wrestling to ever exist by comparison.

There is not a worse run company on the planet. Not WWE, not EA, not onlyfans. None. Nada. Zip. Zero.

[BYU 14]

I just want to know what I am missing with Onlyfans LOL, as I only know of it's platform and nothing deeper.

[RainMaker]

Is Sinclair a contender for them? Just assumed it would be Comcast or Disney.

Honestly not sure why anyone would be in the market for them right now. They have limited star power and practically no one marketable under 40. A competitor run by a money mark that can chip away at you.

As bad as VKM is, any sale takes the last speck or wrestling out of the company and its just going to shit out action figures and tshirts.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I just want to know what I am missing with Onlyfans LOL, as I only know of it's platform and nothing deeper.

I was referring to their recently announced business decision ... which pretty much everyone seems to agree will be the end of them.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Is Sinclair a contender for them?

They're a contender for whatever they want to buy really. I mean, within the bounds of their ability to manipulate money & debt around to make it happen.

The train of thought the led me to the scary notion was something like "why on earth would you want to devalue NXT" --> "what if you already had a third brand" --> "you'd kill NXT if you already had {gulp} ROH"

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I just want to know what I am missing with Onlyfans LOL, as I only know of it's platform and nothing deeper.

Don't use the office computer to do any research!

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Don't use the office computer to do any research!

LOL, I do know that much, saw they were taking their adult content away, which I thought was pretty much the reason they existed, shrug.

[SirFozzie]

Didn't watch much of the NXT Takeover, but holy hells did Walter and Ilya work stiff. Ilya looks like he was in a fight with a bear and lost.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The point, best I can figure, was to provide a reason for the rematch in Saudi.
Goldberg gets his revenge, the live crowd will love it.

I think you're putting too much thought into it if you're even looking for a point. WWE is booked for that night and that night only, there is really nothing to think about beyond that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

I think you're putting too much thought into it if you're even looking for a point. WWE is booked for that night and that night only, there is really nothing to think about beyond that.

Srsly? Love it, hate it, whatever ... but that finish had a clear & obvious purpose.

edit: now whether "the other Khan" is on board with that plan, who the fuck knows. Lashley could be RIF'fed by the time they get to Saudi

[RainMaker]

I would understand if MVP distracted Goldberg by hitting his son and giving Lashley the win. But Goldberg was absolutely squashed in that match. I guess there is always a market for seeing Goldberg do something, but I just don't see how there is any hype for it.

And while I know its wrestling, wouldn't a worked ref stoppage because he blew out his knee and was repeatedly bashed by a chair after the match require longer than a month layoff?

The whole thing makes Goldberg look incredibly weak.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I would understand if MVP distracted Goldberg by hitting his son and giving Lashley the win. But Goldberg was absolutely squashed in that match. I guess there is always a market for seeing Goldberg do something, but I just don't see how there is any hype for it.

And while I know its wrestling, wouldn't a worked ref stoppage because he blew out his knee and was repeatedly bashed by a chair after the match require longer than a month layoff?

The whole thing makes Goldberg look incredibly weak.

Once the knee went, the beatdown ensued.

Didn't feel like a squash to me up to that point (and, yeah, I actually endured the whole match live ... kid was home, he'll watch nearly anything)

As for hype {shrug}, the follow up is designed to play to a live crowd that won't need any hype to be interested.

The best thing the WWE could do (granted, it's not feasible in the social media era, but hypothetically speaking) is have no one outside Saudi see or hear about the matches in Saudi. They're virtually non-canon. They're a spot show custom built for a money mark.

[albionmoonlight]

This is probably well known in the business, but why are the McMahons selling WWE?

Seems like both of Vince's kids have been in the business for years. It never occurred to me that they wouldn't inherit his shares in the company.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

This is probably well known in the business, but why are the McMahons selling WWE?

Seems like both of Vince's kids have been in the business for years. It never occurred to me that they wouldn't inherit his shares in the company.

It's a peculiar situation IMO, and one that I neither have nor have seen/heard/read a compelling explanation of.

It seems to simply be about the opportunity to cash out. Who knows, maybe Steph would rather just retire rich. (I've always had the sense that Shane would be fine doing that if possible anyway)

Among the many questions I'd have about the aftermath of a sale is whether Trips will retire and enjoy the money or if he'll eventually want to go to work somewhere.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The best thing the WWE could do (granted, it's not feasible in the social media era, but hypothetically speaking) is have no one outside Saudi see or hear about the matches in Saudi. They're virtually non-canon. They're a spot show custom built for a money mark.

I wonder if that's what they would prefer but the Prince wants it to be like a real event. For the amount he's paying, there is likely some expectation of seeing title changes, etc during these shows.

But you're right, in a perfect world for WWE, these would be glorified house shows like the MSG ones where they book big stuff but none of it really counts.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Edgy prediction: CM Punk will not be part of the active roster of any promotion by 8/20/23.

(i.e. two years from today)

My prediction is he will not do anything consequential in AEW in the grand scheme of things. Ratings bump, sure. Sell some tickets and merch, absolutely. Maybe that has a domino effect that trickles down to the whole roster.

Punk is at his best as an anti-authority character and the authority figure in AEW is a complete babyface. It's going to be near impossible to turn Punk heel with this audience too. And at his age and with time off, he's not going to be the same Punk in the ring he was a decade ago.

It's cool he's back and wrestling has some buzz, but I couldn't think of a single feud I'd care about him being in (not counting MJF who could have a good feud with a cardboard cutout if he wanted to). Maybe there is some big plan down the line, but it feels like one of those 1-2 year nostalgia runs.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I wonder if that's what they would prefer but the Prince wants it to be like a real event. For the amount he's paying, there is likely some expectation of seeing title changes, etc during these shows.

But you're right, in a perfect world for WWE, these would be glorified house shows like the MSG ones where they book big stuff but none of it really counts.

But they can just flip whatever belt back, the belts have been so devalued for so long changes are kinda shrugs.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But they can just flip whatever belt back, the belts have been so devalued for so long changes are kinda shrugs.

True. I didn't know who half the champs were when I turned on Summerslam.

I can't tell you how much I hate the two world champions for men and women. Your promotion needs one major champion, the rest should be secondary titles.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

True. I didn't know who half the champs were when I turned on Summerslam.

I can't tell you how much I hate the two world champions for men and women. Your promotion needs one major champion, the rest should be secondary titles.

Yeah, just having a Raw and Smackdown champion devalues both belts. You can only have 1 world champ and have that claim mean something.

[RainMaker]

Same goes for the tag titles. Just not enough teams to fight over 2. Nothing feels special.

AEW has problems but Omega is the champ and the Bucks are the tag champs. Pretty simple shit.

[RainMaker]

And now to rail on AEW. Why would you make Punk's first match IN CHICAGO against arguably the biggest babyface in the company? Isn't the fun of having him in Chicago is the monstrous negative reaction the heel will get?

Why not use a good heel like Ricky Starks who the town can drown out in boos? You can do Darby at any time in any other city. But use this as a chance to show the world some nuclear heat against a heel.

It would actually be an incredible way to turn Cody heel. Just have him demand the first match against Punk and heel it up the whole time. Then you have your "authority" figure he can go after for awhile.

The Cena-Punk match was fun because the crowd wanted to boo Cena. No one wants to boo Darby.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Why not use a good heel like Ricky Starks who the town can drown out in boos?

Because they aren't trying to get Starks a rub.

They're stuck in that sense a bit, the key heels on the roster are all guys who really don't need the rub.

[Toddzilla]

This is a pretty cool behind-the-scenes look into the production of the CM Punk return from the control room - starts a 5:46

[RainMaker]

So it seems like Punk implied we'll be seeing Bryan Danielson soon in AEW.

[Mota]

Yup, and Adam Cole appears to be done with WWE.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Sad stuff overnight/today, as former WCW and TNA Wrestler Shannon Spruill aka Daffney Unger has died.

The confirmation of her death comes from family after hours of turmoil overnight following a very disturbing social media post that pointed strongly toward her having suicidal intentions.

Family & friends worked with authorities trying to find her, complicated by the fact she had moved to a new address only a week ago and few if any knew where she currently lived.

The whole thing saddens me even more than usual having met Shannon, out of character, some 20 years ago as part of a client's sales event. What I remember most is a surprisingly quiet, very sweet young girl who was in need of coffee and trying to study for an upcoming exam backstage while we all killed time.

I truly hope she rests in peace.

[Ryche]

Was one of my favorites, so different from most of the female wrestlers at that time.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Finally got around to watching Walter vs Dragunov.

And you have that match and WWE management seems to make a conscious decision that they DON"T want that?

Simply WTF.

Best match I've seen in quite a while, though I will add a thought: that match worked better for me because I been watching Walter for quite a while now and have seen him work against Ospreay and Riddle and others who have similar size disparity as Dragunov and so I know the roadmap for making Walter vulnerable, which made this more believable and therefore easier to be sucked into.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Yeah, there's too many BC vs BC matches. Yeah, there's zero surprises.
Yeah, there's going to be a lot of very skippable matches.

But under the circumstances I'm not sure what anyone could have expected. I think there's a lot of underestimation (denial?) by the IWC of how reluctant wrestlers are to go to Japan right now.

You kinda gotta work with what you have and right now this is what they have. Still the best event in the business, but with the limitations it's not going to be what anyone (including NJPW themselves) would like it to be.

G1 CLIMAX 31 ENTRANTS REVEALED!
A Block:
Kota Ibushi
Tomohiro Ishii
Toru Yano
Shingo Takagi
Tetsuya Naito
Zack Sabre Jr.
Great-O-Khan
KENTA
Tanga Loa
Yujiro Takahashi

B Block:
Hiroshi Tanahashi
Kazuchika Okada
Hirooki Goto
YOSHI-HASHI
SANADA
Taichi
Tama Tonga
EVIL
Jeff Cobb
Chase Owens

[RainMaker]

All Out was pretty good. Little surprised they dumped all those debuts into one event.

Tag match was great and that's not a style I'm terribly into. But the way it built up the crowd was pretty incredible.

Loved MJF-Jericho. The trolling by MJF at the entrance, the false finish, etc. MJF is just so good.

Women's title match was kind of meh and had some sloppiness. And while I like the main event, there was no one who thought Christian was actually winning which took a little something off. Also Omega matches in AEW are starting to get repetitive with the same run-ins.

Probably would have saved Adam Cole's debut for another night, even if it made a nice fake out.

[miami_fan]

WWE, WE’VE GOT A PROBLEMhttps://t.co/ytCwTtxILs

— Mick Foley (@RealMickFoley) September 7, 2021

[Mota]

WWE better start keeping track of their contracts, and locking in whoever they value, because it seems like more and more of the wrestlers are counting down their time and looking to make the jump to AEW.
The momentum has dramatically changed.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

WWE better start keeping track of their contracts, and locking in whoever they value, because it seems like more and more of the wrestlers are counting down their time and looking to make the jump to AEW.
The momentum has dramatically changed.

For the first time, one that could actually have long term value has made a move. THAT could prove significant. The rest, largely, were just spare parts anyway.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

For the first time, one that could actually have long term value has made a move. THAT could prove significant. The rest, largely, were just spare parts anyway.

Initially, Chris Jericho and Jon Moxley were HUGELY important for AEW. It solidified them as a real major league promotion. They already had some real draws in The Elite, but they were still linked to NJPW and RoH, and it wouldn't necessarily have made them stand out to the general public without a few big WWE names. I don't think they would be here without Jericho.

From what I've been reading, Brodie Lee may have been the person that was the catalyst. The treatment of him during his sickness and his passing was the deciding factor for Bryan Danielson to make the move.

Then you get parts that you could argue were under utilized in Malakai Black and Adam Cole. Those guys could be a lot more than they were in the WWE.

And then CM Punk and Bryan Danielson tip the scale.

It's really not one part, but a series of events that all built up which led us to this moment.

As a fan of pro wrestling, I've followed RoH, NJPW and AEW over WWE for years now. But my son was always a WWE fan. Now he is watching AEW every week as well, so even the casuals are catching on.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Mota

WWE better start keeping track of their contracts, and locking in whoever they value, because it seems like more and more of the wrestlers are counting down their time and looking to make the jump to AEW.
The momentum has dramatically changed.

What makes this development even more stupefying is that WWE did it to themselves. They re-worked a bunch of deals in early 2020 when the pandemic started which put them in the situation they're in now.

[molson]

The WWE willingly has let lots of wrestlers go, after years and years of hoarding talent. I don't think they see themselves in a competition for talent with AEW. And there was that news a week or so ago that they will not be looking to add any independent talent. I still think they're preparing for a sale.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

Initially, Chris Jericho and Jon Moxley were HUGELY important for AEW.

I won't argue that, it's why I included the phrase "long term" though.

I'm not sure what Black will / won't end up being. But Cole has the highest long term ceiling, by far, of anyone they've signed that had major league experience.

Almost everyone else that moves the needle any IS short-term, due to their age, physical condition, mental condition, whatever.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by molson

The WWE willingly has let lots of wrestlers go, after years and years of hoarding talent. I don't think they see themselves in a competition for talent with AEW. And there was that news a week or so ago that they will not be looking to add any independent talent. I still think they're preparing for a sale.

I think the news about them no longer recruiting independent talent is the craziest thing. It's like MLB announcing that high school and college players are no longer eligible for the draft. Sure they want to develop their own talent from scratch, but that takes YEARS. What's going to happen is they'll have a developmental roster full of jacked 6'6" guys that have various amounts of charisma, and don't know how to wrestle at all. There are very few Lesnars out there that can just "get it" in a short period of time. It takes most wrestlers years to get their "voice".

[RainMaker]

I think what Moxley and Jericho did to get them credibility, Punk and Bryan help to get them over the next hump (of being the minor leagues). I was skeptical at first, but both got a ton of mainstream press for their returns. Still think Punk is going to struggle in time because of what makes his character popular, but Bryan should excel in that environment. Plus this is a company that desperately needed some main event babyfaces.

I don't get some of the other signings. Andrade seems pointless. While I think Miro is talented, I haven't seen anything special out of him and they already have a couple of hosses on the roster. Can't for the life of me figure out why they wanted Big Show or Mark Henry (which felt like TNA moves). Even Christian seems odd, although I guess if his job is to get young talent over, it'll be worth it.

I think they should pass on Bray Wyatt. That's someone that probably benefits more from having a big spot on Impact or ROH.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Mota

I think the news about them no longer recruiting independent talent is the craziest thing. It's like MLB announcing that high school and college players are no longer eligible for the draft. Sure they want to develop their own talent from scratch, but that takes YEARS. What's going to happen is they'll have a developmental roster full of jacked 6'6" guys that have various amounts of charisma, and don't know how to wrestle at all. There are very few Lesnars out there that can just "get it" in a short period of time. It takes most wrestlers years to get their "voice".

I thought they had a really nice setup years ago with mixing homegrown talent and indie stars. Selling out major arenas with just a Hulu deal and network show. If anything, it was the main roster that completely botched the call-ups.

Maybe they think they can go back to the mid-2000's and create a new batch of John Cena's and Dave Bautistas'. But that was a time where indie wrestling was at a weak point and I just don't see them replicating it.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think what Moxley and Jericho did to get them credibility, Punk and Bryan help to get them over the next hump (of being the minor leagues). I was skeptical at first, but both got a ton of mainstream press for their returns. Still think Punk is going to struggle in time because of what makes his character popular, but Bryan should excel in that environment. Plus this is a company that desperately needed some main event babyfaces.

I don't get some of the other signings. Andrade seems pointless. While I think Miro is talented, I haven't seen anything special out of him and they already have a couple of hosses on the roster. Can't for the life of me figure out why they wanted Big Show or Mark Henry (which felt like TNA moves). Even Christian seems odd, although I guess if his job is to get young talent over, it'll be worth it.

I think they should pass on Bray Wyatt. That's someone that probably benefits more from having a big spot on Impact or ROH.

I have never understood why they are not pushing Lance Archer more, he should be a monster heel, great look and can work. Or push him as a Mopxley style face and let him and Miro do a program.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I have never understood why they are not pushing Lance Archer more, he should be a monster heel, great look and can work. Or push him as a Mopxley style face and let him and Miro do a program.

It took a completely unexpected G1 for anyone to really discover that he could work though. And he IS 44 now, so maybe that slows the push desire some.