COVID-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (a non-political thread, see pg. 36 #1778)

[whomario]

Big article on some of the Ivermectin grifters

'America's Frontline Doctors' Peddle Bogus COVID-19 Treatment | Time

And this:

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/cov...mpression=true

It's not a purely personal choice to participate in the Darwin Olympics.

[GrantDawg]

Here ya go pic.twitter.com/0Gb0dYZkVL

— Cay Gowey (@cayzzer) August 28, 2021

[Ksyrup]

This dude died.

I'm torn between wanting to laugh, cry and punch this dude in the face. Not only incredibly stupid and selfish, but what he did to his own family is the worst part.

Caleb Wallace, head of ‘San Angelo Freedom Fighters’ to “end covid tyranny” is sedated on a ventilator. He has 3 kids and wife pregnant. He treated himself with ivermectin. Here he in interview: “The science is out there, and it’s saying this is perfectly fine to live with.” pic.twitter.com/zCgUdwbbuC

— Ron Filipkowski (@RonFilipkowski) August 27, 2021

[NobodyHere]

If only the hatred of Donald Trump didn't prevent research into ivermectin!

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

This dude died.

I'm torn between wanting to laugh, cry and punch this dude in the face. Not only incredibly stupid and selfish, but what he did to his own family is the worst part.

He basically dedicated his life to ensure that as many people got sick and died as possible. There is a dark humor in that. More than anything though, the world is a better place without him.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

If only the hatred of Donald Trump didn't prevent research into ivermectin!

Where did the Ivermectin thing come from? Trump hasn't taken a stand on it that I'm aware - although admittedly, I've been blissfully unaware of much of what Trump has said since January.

So Paul is just using the hydroxychloroquine thing as a way to pull Trump into the Ivermectin thing? God I hate that guy so much. He just oozes such a know-it-all, I'm too smart for everybody in this room attitude, it makes me sick.

[thesloppy]

Rand Paul was like the very first politician to get covid, actively avoided quarantining & he somehow thinks that makes him an expert.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

This dude died.

I'm torn between wanting to laugh, cry and punch this dude in the face. Not only incredibly stupid and selfish, but what he did to his own family is the worst part.

Caleb Wallace, head of ‘San Angelo Freedom Fighters’ to “end covid tyranny” is sedated on a ventilator. He has 3 kids and wife pregnant. He treated himself with ivermectin. Here he in interview: “The science is out there, and it’s saying this is perfectly fine to live with.” pic.twitter.com/zCgUdwbbuC

— Ron Filipkowski (@RonFilipkowski) August 27, 2021

Guess he showed us

[cuervo72]

But he's in Heaven now, so laugh's on us!

[Brian Swartz]

We could always take a moment to celebrate the tens of thousands who daily are added to the rolls of those who recovered from COVID.

[Ksyrup]

In many instances, that would simply be a celebration of recklessness and selfishness, and worse, many people take that as proof that they have no reason to get vaccinated themselves. So... I'm thankful for the children who have recovered and for the others who have legitimate reasons not to get vaccinated who survived it, but for the others... no thanks.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

We could always take a moment to celebrate the tens of thousands who daily are added to the rolls of those who recovered from COVID.

you are sooooooo much better than the rest of us.....

[JPhillips]

Me at the Alzheimer's research fundraiser:

WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT DIDN'T GET ALZHEIMER'S?

[JPhillips]

dola

I doubt the simulation is perfect, although they've often been optimistic in their numbers, but the basic thrust of this is probably our future.

A CDC-funded simulation projects that without masking or testing, up to 75 percent of children under 12 could be infected within three months

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Lathum

you are sooooooo much better than the rest of us.....

Not at all. I just don't see the point of repeatedly bludgeoning the same people that literally nobody on the forum agrees with. I think a little balance is useful if only for variety's sake. Maybe there's a purpose beyond what I see to constantly going around in a circle talking about how Public Personality X really should have taken the vaccine when they had the chance, how wrong it is for people to inject themselves with the wrong medications, etc.

[Flasch186]

To showcase the incredible deadly hypocrisy and irony

That is why it’s done over and over… one because it’s incredible and two because it’s alarming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RainMaker]

It is also kind of funny.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

We could always take a moment to celebrate the tens of thousands who daily are added to the rolls of those who recovered from COVID.

That's not what drives the narrative right now.

I do think we should be constantly warning of not being vaccinated, presenting the stats etc. Although not near as bad as last year (infections & deaths), it is still bad enough that requires the constant reminders.

Sharing the good stories about recovery may (actually will) confuse the issue for many.

[Edward64]

With that said ...

We read about how much more likely unvaccinated will die vs vaccinated. Do we know what the mortality risk is overall in current day with the Delta? If I was unvaccinated, do I have a 1% chance of dying or a 4% chance of dying? I've seen stats but I'm confused. Using just an example from recent articles ...

1.3% of fully vaccinated dies. What is the likelihood of death after being fully vaccinated for COVID-19? | WOWK 13 News

Unvaccinated are 15 times more likely to die (and 4.4x as likely to catch covid) ERROR: The request could not be satisfied

Worldometers reports that raw stats but there is a lag between infections and deaths. And it clumps stuff some last year so that skews the % some. But it reports about 73,000 new infections yesterday. So swagging it ... 73,000 x 1.3 = 949 deaths for vaccinated. x 15 = 14,235 for unvaccinated. So for 73,000 infections, we would expect 15,184 deaths.

We are no where close to that number. We will likely not get near that number. Anyone know the % of unvaccinated dying from covid as a % of infections.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

dola

I doubt the simulation is perfect, although they've often been optimistic in their numbers, but the basic thrust of this is probably our future.

Is there a link to this study somewhere?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Edward64

With that said ...

We read about how much more likely unvaccinated will die vs vaccinated. Do we know what the mortality risk is overall in current day with the Delta? If I was unvaccinated, do I have a 1% chance of dying or a 4% chance of dying? I've seen stats but I'm confused. Using just an example from recent articles ...

1.3% of fully vaccinated dies. What is the likelihood of death after being fully vaccinated for COVID-19? | WOWK 13 News

Unvaccinated are 15 times more likely to die (and 4.4x as likely to catch covid) ERROR: The request could not be satisfied

Worldometers reports that raw stats but there is a lag between infections and deaths. And it clumps stuff some last year so that skews the % some. But it reports about 73,000 new infections yesterday. So swagging it ... 73,000 x 1.3 = 949 deaths for vaccinated. x 15 = 14,235 for unvaccinated. So for 73,000 infections, we would expect 15,184 deaths.

We are no where close to that number. We will likely not get near that number. Anyone know the % of unvaccinated dying from covid as a % of infections.

I feel like we're still on the front edge of the deaths for Delta because of how they're trailing indicators. Also, that 1.3% number for fully vaccinated seems really high. Looking at the article, I think that's a limited sample pool in West Virginia that's particularly noisy. We saw in the previous, pre-Delta waves that the case fatality rate was under 1%, unless your hospital system got overwhelmed and therapeutics could not be widely administered, at which point it jumped to 3-5%.

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Not at all. I just don't see the point of repeatedly bludgeoning the same people that literally nobody on the forum agrees with. I think a little balance is useful if only for variety's sake. Maybe there's a purpose beyond what I see to constantly going around in a circle talking about how Public Personality X really should have taken the vaccine when they had the chance, how wrong it is for people to inject themselves with the wrong medications, etc.

SI

[Brian Swartz]

*sigh*. That's not what I'm doing.

Originally Posted by Edward64

I do think we should be constantly warning of not being vaccinated, presenting the stats etc. Although not near as bad as last year (infections & deaths), it is still bad enough that requires the constant reminders.

Sharing the good stories about recovery may (actually will) confuse the issue for many.

I view this as being like going up to random smoker and warning them about the health consequences. What's the chances of them saying 'Bless you, citizen! I've been walking around smoking these things for decades and I had no idea they were killing me!! You've done me a great service!!'

Anybody who cares to know, knows at this point. I think it's *always* valuable to have an accurate, proportionate picture. We are also paying a price for the lack of it in the exaggerated views much of the country has of the impact of the virus. But I will bend to the obvious will of the forum and leave everyone be to go round and the round the mulberry bush covering the same exact territory with nobody in opposition, no contrary view entertained, nothing new learned, etc.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

We could always take a moment to celebrate the tens of thousands who daily are added to the rolls of those who recovered from COVID.

Oh, my bad. I have definitely learned something new today. Thank you for these enlightened facts that add greatly to the conversation. And definitely are not being contrarian just for contrarian's sake:

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Not at all. I just don't see the point of repeatedly bludgeoning the same people that literally nobody on the forum agrees with. I think a little balance is useful if only for variety's sake. Maybe there's a purpose beyond what I see to constantly going around in a circle talking about how Public Personality X really should have taken the vaccine when they had the chance, how wrong it is for people to inject themselves with the wrong medications, etc.

EDIT: Carrying around a persecution complex isn't something that helps teach or understand. Where's the new view? The new perspective to learn from that distinguishes it from just being a contrarian rebuke?

SI

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Edward64

With that said ...

We read about how much more likely unvaccinated will die vs vaccinated. Do we know what the mortality risk is overall in current day with the Delta? If I was unvaccinated, do I have a 1% chance of dying or a 4% chance of dying? I've seen stats but I'm confused. Using just an example from recent articles ...

1.3% of fully vaccinated dies. What is the likelihood of death after being fully vaccinated for COVID-19? | WOWK 13 News

Unvaccinated are 15 times more likely to die (and 4.4x as likely to catch covid) ERROR: The request could not be satisfied

Worldometers reports that raw stats but there is a lag between infections and deaths. And it clumps stuff some last year so that skews the % some. But it reports about 73,000 new infections yesterday. So swagging it ... 73,000 x 1.3 = 949 deaths for vaccinated. x 15 = 14,235 for unvaccinated. So for 73,000 infections, we would expect 15,184 deaths.

We are no where close to that number. We will likely not get near that number. Anyone know the % of unvaccinated dying from covid as a % of infections.

Dunno if that helps, but some general thoughts without bothering to look for hard data:

Vaccinated individuals are less likely to get tested, both because of on average much milder symptoms and being required less llikely to be routinely tested,making this a moot point. CFR for Vaccinated in many places will be much inflated compared to Unvaccinated because a) there's more people having virtually no symptoms and b) even with the same 'level' of symptoms might be less likely to be tested. That's just the reality, wether that's sensible or not. As a result the 'cohort' of vaccinated individuals will already be preselected to include comparatively many with significant symptoms and risk factors. And ironically vaccines are expected to be less effective the older the person is, though it is as little a factor here as one could hope for in a first 'draft' especially.

CFR is dependent on test frequency and distribution, making it similarly problematic, doubly so in small samples. And it's never your risk, unless you are the average personified. This also depends on available treatment, available care etc, etc.
Delta is quite a bit more likely to result in hospitalisation or death all things being equal compared to Alpha/Wildtype based on half a dozen big studies now from the UK, Canada, China and a couple more places i forget (correcting for age, vacc status, sex and even time of test and place of test to correct for testing volume going up/down).

Only reasonable way to measure nowadays is either by preselecting samples (like the UK infection survey) or look at hospital data, the more detailed (f.e. by different demographics and age groups) the better. Then calculate odds vacc/unvacc taking into account % of population/age group so you don't get stupid headlines like "more vaccinated in hospital than unvaccinated" at UK levels of Vaccine coverage (where f.e. 3-4% of over 50s are unvaccinated and thus 'only' 40% or similar are unvaccinated in hospital).
Everything else is utterly pointless to communicate to the general public.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

*sigh*. That's not what I'm doing.



I view this as being like going up to random smoker and warning them about the health consequences. What's the chances of them saying 'Bless you, citizen! I've been walking around smoking these things for decades and I had no idea they were killing me!! You've done me a great service!!'

.

Smokers know for the most part it is bad for them, they choose to take the risk.

Anti vaxers truly believe taking the vaccine is worse than the prospects of Covid, for a variety of reasons. Then you have people like these radio hosts who validate those thoughts.

I fail to see how your example makes any sense.

[JPhillips]

Why don't we talk more about the 85% of smokers that don't get lung cancer? Even smokers that get lung cancer often die from something else. Kind of puts the anti-smoking campaigns into perspective, IMO.

[GrantDawg]

Why don't we talk about the houses that aren't destroyed by the hurricane?

[JPhillips]

On a more serious note, tomorrow I'm going to a funeral for a fellow church elder that died last week from COVID.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Why don't we talk about the houses that aren't destroyed by the hurricane?

[Ksyrup]

This is a tremendously interesting thread.

This is a good point.

When anti-vaxxers cite their freedoms, constitutional rights, and–the whitest thing of all–the Founding Fathers to rail against vaccine mandates, do they know what they're talking about?

What if I told you this happens EXACTLY every 100 years?

A thread. https://t.co/oKHhVozGhO

— Michael Harriot (@michaelharriot) August 29, 2021

[Ksyrup]

I don't understand why all of these people have to die when we could just stop counting cases so they don't exist.

Average US deaths/day via @CNN:

Right now: 1,274 deaths/day
10 days ago: 820 deaths/day
20 days ago: 514 deaths/day
30 days ago: 305 deaths/day

— Ryan Struyk (@ryanstruyk) August 29, 2021

[albionmoonlight]

Duke is not messing around. The freedom that private universities get to protect their students without having to get the blessing of GOP members of the state legislatures is nice.

If employees don’t get vaccinated by Oct. 1, they will be terminated and will not be eligible for rehire with Duke in the future. https://t.co/Dxh0hHdBnB

— The News & Observer (@newsobserver) August 29, 2021

[Mota]

Originally Posted by molson

He basically dedicated his life to ensure that as many people got sick and died as possible. There is a dark humor in that. More than anything though, the world is a better place without him.

Similar to what you said. There's a difference between wishing death upon someone, and acknowledging karma.

[Ksyrup]

No one had to wish death upon him. He took care of it himself.

[Ksyrup]

My employer did the same (although I'm not sure about the "future employment" part). There are 6-9 holdouts in my company of about 50 people. They have until September 10th to get the first shot or tender their resignation on the 11th.

[miami_fan]

It may or may not be a thing. Of course, we are still dealing with small sample sizes, pun not intended, but each bit of information that comes out seem to coming to the same conclusion.

COVID-19 could cause male infertility and sexual dysfunction – but vaccines do not

[Lathum]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.raw...ele-2654836582


Another one gone. Good riddance.

[AnalBumCover]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

My employer did the same (although I'm not sure about the "future employment" part). There are 6-9 holdouts in my company of about 50 people. They have until September 10th to get the first shot or tender their resignation on the 11th.

My employer has deactivated all building access cards to those who have not provided proof of vaccination (the vaccination card), though we haven't opened the office yet, and most (read: non-essential employees) are still working from home.

[Ksyrup]

So a Cincinnati area judge has ordered doctors to administer Ivermectin to a patient. Good Lord.

EDIT/Correction - a hospital has been forced to provide Ivermectin based on a doctor's prescription.

If the science backs up that this is as bad for you as it seems, I hope doctors like this lose their licenses.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

No one had to wish death upon him. He took care of it himself.

Even if someone wished death on him, that is not what killed him. That would be "magic thinking" and not science. Sort of like what anti-vaccers believe in.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by AnalBumCover

My employer has deactivated all building access cards to those who have not provided proof of vaccination (the vaccination card), though we haven't opened the office yet, and most (read: non-essential employees) are still working from home.

Well, my employer gives us 4-day weekends around most of the major holidays, so these people have to make a decision coming off of an extra long Labor Day weekend as to whether they want to go find another job as good as the one they currently have.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Lathum

QAnon conspiracist dies from COVID-19 he called a hoax to the very end - Raw Story - Celebrating 17 Years of Independent Journalism


Another one gone. Good riddance.

Has to feel shitty to die from a disease you think doesn't exist. Like why are you even in the fucking hospital pal?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Has to feel shitty to die from a disease you think doesn't exist. Like why are you even in the fucking hospital pal?

I'm sure he thinks the doctors were killing him

[Flasch186]

That’s the conspiracy I read

The claim is that the doctors are killing these people to get at Desantis 🤦‍♂️

One of my Realtors falls for every single Russian conspiracy push there is


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cuervo72]

If the doctors are killing them, they just shouldn't go to the hospital.

[JPhillips]

Yeah, a lot of theories that the ventilators are the cause of death.

[Brian Swartz]

My favorite I've heard lately is that the 'cemetery shot' is about population control, but also half of the vaccines given out are placebos. In no reality can both simultaneously be true.

[CrimsonFox]

i just keep wondering if I've caught covid anytime since getting the vaccine

[Ksyrup]

There are 120 counties in Kentucky. As of yesterday, the only one that is NOT in red is Woodford County, where I live. Not so coincidentally, Woodford just so happens to have the highest vaccination rate in the state.

This is not brain surgery.