NFL 2023 Offseason/Free Agency/Draft Thread

[albionmoonlight]

That was super funny

[Bobble]

The Lion's schedule reveal video probably has too many insider jokes to be truly enjoyed by all but I thought it was awesome: Detroit Lions 2023 Schedule Reveal A couple of Lions interns used AI technology to replicate the voices Dan Campbell and Brad Holmes playing Madden to introduce the schedule.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

That was super funny

I nearly spit my lunch out all over my computer.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

If this were FOF, Brady would convert him into a punter and cut him.

But since this real life, he is going to make him play left guard.

[GrantDawg]

Look what you've done, @Titans �� pic.twitter.com/KygXk46oI0

— NFL (@NFL) May 12, 2023

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Yeah, I don't watch any of that stuff. I'm not a tiktok person and regardless of what media they use, that's all those are. Blech.

"Get off my lawn!!!"

[Ksyrup]

I guess. I just don't see the point of it since I don't find it entertaining. Specifically here, it's just an extension of the 24 hour news/analysis cycle which I have no interest in. I don't even turn on the Super Bowl until the National Anthem is done and I don't watch pre-game shows. This falls into the same category.

The only reason I would care about this before Week 1's games is if I was planning to attend games. For instance, I expect my daughter to hound the shit out of me to take her to see the Broncos in Detroit in Week 15 or 16 (I think). And funny enough, that's one of the games without a definite date.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

It absolutely amazes me that the NFL gets this much mileage out of an email release. Not only is this not much of a reveal, it's not like we didn't already know who everyone was playing. This is just what order! WOW!

Make your marketing ad dollars I suppose, but yeesh. Big yawn.

I've never understood this either.

[QuikSand]

Just watched the Titans vid for the third time, and it is still hilarious. I think it all comes down to the Fox/NFL music bursting out with each team logo and announcement. Without that, maybe only 20% as good.

[Solecismic]

I have to find a way to get Chester Cheeto into the game.

[miked]

They took something dull and boring and made it funny. Much better than hearing about how Jalen Carter will prove his doubters wrong, or how Jimmy G. is ready to lead the Raiders.

[Solecismic]

The Chargers... tough going with the same idea as last year, but it's even better. You have to look at it frame by frame.

The Peyton Manning/Angela Kinsey/Office theme for the Broncos... great idea, but it played like an endless SNL skit, and not one of the classic ones.

Most of them are kind of silly, but it's still a lot of fun. Carolina's worth a second look, too... a lot going on there.

[cuervo72]

Not to be a killjoy, but:



YouTube from 7 months ago, I KNOW my kid showed me the originals well before that.

[cuervo72]

Local news announces that sale of Commanders is official, Snyder is out. Local news team immediately, collectively: "THANK GOD FINALLY WE HATED THAT FUCKING GUY."

[QuikSand]

finna ban mister cuervo

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Local news announces that sale of Commanders is official, Snyder is out. Local news team immediately, collectively: "THANK GOD FINALLY WE HATED THAT FUCKING GUY."

And their was much rejoicing! I hope some of the stuff about him comes out now that he's gone, but NFL will probably still try to keep it quiet.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by cartman

We asked people on Broadway to help us with our 2023 schedule release. ��

��: 2023 Schedule Release on @nflnetwork pic.twitter.com/31LsUUDn3O

— Tennessee Titans (@Titans) May 12, 2023

Ok, this got hyped in this thread way too much.
Yet I'm sitting here never the less with teary eyes from the laughter.

Edit: and the stuff cuervo72 pointed out as more original was also hilarious.

[JPhillips]

I don't understand the Za'Darius Smith trade for the Vikings. 2 5ths for a 6th, 7th, and Smith just doesn't seem worth doing.

[QuikSand]

In these situations, presumably what he was owed on his current contract was a burden to the team (they feel he's not worth it) and just getting someone to take on the balance of the deal was a win for them, so they didn't require much compensation.

I haven't dug in, but with NFL contracts sometimes being really complicated, this is the usual answer for why certain guys are not desirable trade targets. Contract details.

[Ryche]

Yeah, it just came down to him not wanting to play in Minnesota for the contract he had and Minnesota not wanting to sweeten the deal, especially with their tight cap situation. So they got what they could.

He started out great last season but was pretty invisible during the second half.

[Solecismic]

Matt Ryan to CBS. So that looks like retirement. Perhaps he wanted a starting shot or nothing, because it's hard to imagine there wasn't a good backup job out there for him.

Like Philip Rivers, I think he doesn't quite get to Canton. By the old standards for quarterbacks, he's amassed excellent career numbers. And he's 0-1 in the Super Bowl while Rivers didn't get there at all. But in the middle of a run that includes Peyton Manning, Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, it's probably not going to happen. The bigger question is whether Eli Manning, with the two Super Bowl MVP trophies, gets in with much worse regular-season numbers.

[Lathum]

Can we just stop with the Eli Manning nonsense. He gets in first ballot.

[Solecismic]

They don't work like baseball does - "first ballot" is not the same type of concept in that there aren't pedantic voters who think of themselves as somehow bigger than the process itself.

Manning falls into the category of someone who will test the limits of Hall inclusion in a direction - in this case long-term mediocrity in the regular season. Are the Super Bowls enough? We've never had a test as extreme as that. Nor have we had a test like Rivers, which I think we agree goes the other way.

You might be right that it's not a close vote. But it is an interesting question, not nonsense at all (like most of the items on this forum, sadly).

[QuikSand]

I'd say that maybe the best career comp for Eli Manning is Joe Namath. Namath had a career of some volume and some awards but not good efficiency, but obviously had the iconic big game win and most agreed he deserved to go into the HoF.

[Solecismic]

Namath had a serious shoulder injury early in the season following that Super Bowl. He was a shell of his former self, but hung on a long time afterward, because those were the days when destroying quarterbacks physically was part of the game.

Until that injury, it's hard to judge. There were five pro-bowls in his first eight seasons, but AFL. He always threw far too many interceptions, even for his time. I don't think it's a great comparison, but I think you're right that it's in the ballpark. What about Phil Simms or Joe Theismann as comps?

[Lathum]

I mean nonsense as in this topic comes up so often and IMO it isn't even close Hovering top 10 in some offensive categories all time and 2X superbowl MVP and Champion, including against an all time great team. Could have also won a 3rd. Giants were 10-1 when Plaxico shot himself. Changed the whole direction of that franchise.

[Swaggs]

I was trying to see how many QBs were elected on the first ballot:
Bobby Layne - 1967
Bart Starr - 1977
Johnny Unitas - 1979
George Blanda (also a kicker) - 1981
Roger Staubach - 1985
Terry Bradshaw - 1989
Dan Fouts - 1993
Joe Montana - 2000
Jim Kelly - 2002
John Elway - 2004
Dan Marino - 2005
Steve Young - 2005
Troy Aikman - 2006
Warren Moon - 2006
Brett Favre - 2016
Peyton Manning - 2021


And then 17 other (primarily) QBs were elected on subsequent ballots.
These are the inductees after 1970:
YA Tittle - 1971 (1964)
Norm Van Brocklin - 1971 (1960)
Sonny Jurgenson - 1983 (1974)
Joe Namath - 1985 (1977)
Fran Tarkenton - 1986 (1971)
Len Dawson - 1987 (1975)
Bob Griese - 1990 (1980)
Ken Stabler - 2016 (1984)
Kurt Warner - 2017 (2009)


Looking it over, I'm not sure about Eli. I don't think he will be a first ballot guy because his winning percentage (about 51%) is much lower than his contemporaries and, among players with 100 wins, only Moon (49%), Ryan (53%), and Bledsoe (also 51%) are in the same neighborhood. I think he may be in a category with guys like Griese, Namath, and Warner, where he played on iconic, Super Bowl winning teams, but played longer. It will be an interesting case. I think Russell Wilson will be interesting, too.

[Solecismic]

Why doesn't the frequency standard apply elsewhere, then? There are topics here that have thousands of seemingly identical replies. Every once in a while I click on one just to see if anything's actually being discussed. Nope. Never happens.

And no, it is close with Manning. Maybe there's nothing new to add, but I'd counter those top tens with look who is ahead of him. That's just the new longevity combined with more passing and safer passing. If you look at metrics, he's not close at all. But can metrics be overcome by Super Bowls? If you're not talking about Namath's promise as the greatest upset in NFL history, you're probably talking about Super Bowl 42.

Of course I've mentioned this before. I'm the one who has brought it up a few times, and here I am doing it again as Ryan and Rivers are going to define the "but no playoff success" side of the argument. Ryan's apparent retirement is news, and he's one of the last (Rodgers is the last) of that group that redefined the quarterback position and longevity.

So forgive me if I've offended you. You last posted in this item during the draft about something to do with a kid and the Jets, I think. We can go back a few weeks to that if you like. I didn't watch the draft, I just followed online, so maybe it will be really interesting for me, too.

[albionmoonlight]

If I had a team and you gave me the choice between Eil and Rivers, I'd take Rivers and not even think about it. I think that he was the much better QB.

The argument that Eli belongs in the HOF and Rivers does not is easier for me to understand than the argument that Eli is better than Rivers. Does that make sense?

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

If I had a team and you gave me the choice between Eil and Rivers, I'd take Rivers and not even think about it. I think that he was the much better QB.

The argument that Eli belongs in the HOF and Rivers does not is easier for me to understand than the argument that Eli is better than Rivers. Does that make sense?

This is a good take. They were both good, long-time competent quarterbacks that were really good when they were on good teams, but didn't exactly make average teams into contenders. First ballot guys like Brady and Rodgers did make their teams a notch (or more better).

Of the guys listed by Jim, I think Brady, Rodgers, and Brees are first ballot guys.

I would put Ben closer to Eli than those guys, but I think Ben was like half a tier better, number and efficiency-wise and they both won 2 Super Bowls. Eli is and was about 100x more likable than Ben, so I think that may benefit him among writers. I think they will both eventually get in, but it may be closer to the 10-year mark than first ballot.

I see Eli's record as 117-117 on football reference (different from the record I listed above - maybe didn't have his last four games or playoffs) and I think that is just hard to overcome (Ben's is 168-81, Brady is 251-82!!!!, Brees is 172-114, and 147-75 and counting), despite the Super Bowl wins.

[JPhillips]

I think Eli should be a difficult choice, but given the way the voting works and the popularity of the entire family, I expect it's a gimme.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

If I had a team and you gave me the choice between Eil and Rivers, I'd take Rivers and not even think about it. I think that he was the much better QB.

The argument that Eli belongs in the HOF and Rivers does not is easier for me to understand than the argument that Eli is better than Rivers. Does that make sense?

Maybe but I'd 100% switch to Eli once the playoffs started.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Danny

Maybe but I'd 100% switch to Eli once the playoffs started.

He was 8-4 in the playoffs, with an average game score of 53 (not bad). Both conference championships were in overtime. Average score of 19.3 to 19.0.

Rivers was 5-7, 21.5-21.9, little bit worse on the game scores. The Patriots ended three of his playoff efforts.

I think I'd rather have Rivers, but when you get to the whole "it's a team game thing, so don't overthink it" argument, maybe you go with the guy who could stick an impossible pass to the top of a nobody guy's helmet with the game on the line anyway?

Is it still a no-brainer if Eli isn't likeable and has the Manning name?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Why doesn't the frequency standard apply elsewhere, then? There are topics here that have thousands of seemingly identical replies. Every once in a while I click on one just to see if anything's actually being discussed. Nope. Never happens.

And no, it is close with Manning. Maybe there's nothing new to add, but I'd counter those top tens with look who is ahead of him. That's just the new longevity combined with more passing and safer passing. If you look at metrics, he's not close at all. But can metrics be overcome by Super Bowls? If you're not talking about Namath's promise as the greatest upset in NFL history, you're probably talking about Super Bowl 42.

Of course I've mentioned this before. I'm the one who has brought it up a few times, and here I am doing it again as Ryan and Rivers are going to define the "but no playoff success" side of the argument. Ryan's apparent retirement is news, and he's one of the last (Rodgers is the last) of that group that redefined the quarterback position and longevity.

So forgive me if I've offended you. You last posted in this item during the draft about something to do with a kid and the Jets, I think. We can go back a few weeks to that if you like. I didn't watch the draft, I just followed online, so maybe it will be really interesting for me, too.

I'm not in the least bit offended. I just think it is silly that people think 2 titles and some very good career passing numbers wouldn't put him in the HOF. I am admittedly insanely biased, but IMO he easily gets in if foe nothing else being a 2X Superbowl winner and MVP. Once is a fluke, twice isn't.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

He was 8-4 in the playoffs, with an average game score of 53 (not bad). Both conference championships were in overtime. Average score of 19.3 to 19.0.

Rivers was 5-7, 21.5-21.9, little bit worse on the game scores. The Patriots ended three of his playoff efforts.

I think I'd rather have Rivers, but when you get to the whole "it's a team game thing, so don't overthink it" argument, maybe you go with the guy who could stick an impossible pass to the top of a nobody guy's helmet with the game on the line anyway?

Is it still a no-brainer if Eli isn't likeable and has the Manning name?

You definitely know better with advanced statistics. I'm going more on my viewing as I watched all these playoff games by both passers. Rivers in particular always seemed to choke late in the games from my memory. Could be wrong though.

[bronconick]

NFL sells a wildcard game to NBC for $110 million which will be a Peacock streaming exclusive. Hopefully the Buccaneers make it so it blends with all the piracy.

[Carman Bulldog]

The guy never received a single vote for MVP or Offensive Player of the Year nor was he ever an All-Pro. He somehow only managed to make four Pro Bowls, two of those as a replacement selection at that, and it's not like he was in the AFC with Brady and Peyton. The only statistical category he ever led the league in was interceptions, which he did three times squarely in the middle of his "prime." He was never top 3 in passing yards and only once finished top 3 in passing TD's.

Sure, he's 10th in all-time pass yards and passing touchdowns but both of those categories are defined by the era in which we are in. While being 10th all-time sounds great, it's a lot less impressive when he's only 9th in his own era.

Of his 16 seasons in the NFL, he only won a playoff game or games in 2 of those seasons. Don't get me wrong, what he did do in those two playoff runs was extremely impressive and really is in complete contrast to the rest of his career. It will help that he's well liked by the media, has the Manning name, and gets extra points from many for knocking off the Patriots twice, including the 2007 juggernaut.

But aside from getting on a heater in two playoff runs, the rest of his career was completely middling and was defined more than anything by his impressive durability.

It will be an interesting test case in terms of how much weight gets put on those eight playoff starts compared to the other 238 games he started in his career. But I don't agree that he's a sure thing, let alone first ballot.

[Jstraub]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

If I had a team and you gave me the choice between Eil and Rivers, I'd take Rivers and not even think about it. I think that he was the much better QB.

The argument that Eli belongs in the HOF and Rivers does not is easier for me to understand than the argument that Eli is better than Rivers. Does that make sense?

I agree with this. To me, clearly Eli belongs in the HOF but he was not clearly a better QB than Rivers. Rivers does not belong in the HOF IMO.

Its called the Hall of FAME, not the hall of statistics. I appreciate the voters who agree with me who believe its more than just stats. Its about doing something that makes them 'famous' in the playoffs or super bowl. Eli is a slam dunk in this regard. What is Rivers famous for? Having 20 kids, saying 'dad gum' and underperforming in critical games/moments.

[Danny]

I'll add that I don't necessarily think Eli belongs in the hall. I just don't think very highly of Rivers after watching much of his career.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by Jstraub

Its called the Hall of FAME, not the hall of statistics. I appreciate the voters who agree with me who believe its more than just stats. Its about doing something that makes them 'famous' in the playoffs or super bowl. Eli is a slam dunk in this regard.

Manningham and Tyree should be HOFers then? They made the catches. If they don't then Eli (probably) doesn't win 2 Super Bowls. He'll get in because of his name. Above average QB but not a HOF guy. Neither is Rivers.

[Solecismic]

Rivers isn't particularly charismatic. His appearance in the league was tied to a popular player who had a Hall of Fame career leaving San Diego (and indirectly to Alabama's extraordinary success in recent years - Nick Saban claims he left the NFL because the Dolphins wouldn't let him sign Brees). His career was entirely overshadowed by New England's run. Our last sight of him was a rather poor, old, fading star failing to get anything going in Indianapolis. He's an easy player to dismiss.

These discussions are interesting, I think. Statistics aren't a bad way to decide things - they measure something. The question is what. When we look at Russell Wilson and we see the ring and another almost-ring, do we discredit that because he wasn't particularly good in either game, or do we recognize that he has won at an incredible pace and brought those teams to that position?

I think you need longevity and you need to be a leader on excellent teams. However, the last 20-25 years has seen rules changes that make it possible for quarterbacks to stay healthy.

The eight quarterbacks with the most career wins since 1974, including playoffs, who are not already in the Hall:

Brady (285), Brees (181), Roethlisberger (177), Rodgers (158), Rivers (136), Ryan (127), Manning (125), Wilson (116), Flacco (109). However, with few exceptions, it's the quarterbacks with unusually high winning percentages who make it.

Losses since 1974, including playoffs:

Brees (121), E.Manning (120), Favre (119), Testaverde (117), Ryan (115), Rivers (114), Moon (104), Marino (103), K.Collins (102), Stafford (100).

It feels right that Ryan and Rivers don't make it. They're the stats are there, but they haven't led great teams guys. Maybe Rivers could have been that guy if not for New England, but it doesn't work that way. You look at the Hall, and the only relatively recent guy who's in but feels like he fits that category is Fouts.

Manning's the opposite. I think you could argue his case either way. Sorry to belabor that if that discussion bothers you.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I think Eli should be a difficult choice, but given the way the voting works and the popularity of the entire family, I expect it's a gimme.

I wonder how much juice there would be for Eli if his last name was "Plunkett."

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

The eight quarterbacks with the most career wins since 1974, including playoffs, who are not already in the Hall:

Brady (285), Brees (181), Roethlisberger (177), Rodgers (158), Rivers (136), Ryan (127), Manning (125), Wilson (116), Flacco (109).

Chuck Klosterman made the point about Wilt Chamberlin that his statistical dominance over his peers was so huge that it almost hurts his legacy--the numbers don't quite seem real, so we subconsciously discount them.

Brady's win stats are the same way. I mean look at that! Brees, Roethlisberger and Rodgers are really good QBs who won a lot. And Brady is 100+ wins over any of them. I'm not even sure how to process that.

[NobodyHere]

Well the cheating didn't hurt his win totals.

[Swaggs]

Hines Ward is an interesting comp for Eli. Different positions, obviously, but he is a 2x Super Bowl winner with a Super Bowl MVP and a 4-time pro bowler. He finished in the top 10-15 in most career receiving statistics (when he retired and became eligible, at least - he has been surpassed in some since). Top 5-10 in the major career receiving categories in the playoffs. Known as a "game changer" for his blocking and well-liked in his post-playing career (media and Dancing with the Stars).

He has been a semi-finalist 7 times and never made it to the final round of voting.

[miked]

Eli Manning averaged 22 TDs and 15 INT per season while barely completing 60% of his passes. He got lucky in 2 superbowls. Is that the caliber of a HOF QB? He threw 30+ TDs 3 times in his career, the same amount of times he threw over 20 picks.

[sovereignstar v2]

Stoked to hear that Peacock will have an exclusive Wild Card game on their streaming service - how exciting!

/s

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

Stoked to hear that Peacock will have an exclusive Wild Card game on their streaming service - how exciting!

/s

I'm sure it will be on their free service. You just have to deal with annoying ads.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I'm sure it will be on their free service. You just have to deal with annoying ads.

Really? I'd figure the whole point of doing this is to get people to sign up for paid Peacock.

Or to sign up for the "free trial" and then 10% of the people never get around to cancelling it.

Peacock's one of the few streaming services we don't have, so I'd like to try to avoid it.

[albionmoonlight]

My big question is whether NFL+ will still allow me to stream the games available in my area. Between that and Sunday Ticket, I'd be able to catch every game w/o having cable or the equivalent.