Werewolf XLIII - The Big City (Game over)

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by path12

Or you can all just continue to sheepishly follow the herd and avoid making decisions for yourself.

Whatever man. I have been pushing to get a judge elected since the beginning of the game and pointing out the benefits of doing so. If you sit around and wait half of the cycle before pushing for one person to get a majority, we'll be sitting around doing the same thing on Day 5. We need to cohesively get behind one candidate and get them elected or we're going to keep ending up without a judge and no one will be able to hold the mafia accountable. As I and others have pointed out, the judge is going to have to act with some level of transparency, or we will know that they are corrupt and have reason to lynch them. That is a check that gives us all power.

Instead, you act like you would rather have no judge than risk having a mafia member elected, even though we can hold the judge accountable.

[DaddyTorgo]

hmmm

if people want to put me up for the judgeship opposite hoops that's fine. But let's decide if that's actually viable before we give the mafia a chance to use my candidacy to hide votes.

I agree that the 2 votes for BK are suspicious, moreso since CR voted for him yesterday as well from what I remember.

But I wouldn't think BOTH of those people are mafioso. One of them possibly though.

[path12]

Originally Posted by path12 #372

I'm actually leaning towards Blade for my judge vote. Go figure.

Originally Posted by path12 #377

I never throw my vote away. I vote for who I want to vote for. Whether anyone agrees with it is not really my concern.

For the record, I think it's a decent choice. I'm reasonably confident he's not mafia, and there is no better place for him to be accountable to the rest of us. If he does something we don't like, we vote him out.

Originally Posted by Swaggs

It is good that you have finally tossed your support behind someone for judge, but you very well know that you should have declared that you liked DT or Blade yesterday

Just for the record. We can agree to disagree on our belief on how badly the bad guys would like one of their own in the chair.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I disagree about the mafia wanting one of their own as a judge. I think they would prefer to do exactly what they did yesterday, have a frontrunner with a few other players in the running as a anonymous tossaway votes. If one of their own acts as judge, they would have to answer to the masses if they make poor decisions. No judge is better than a mafia controlled judge, in my opinion.

It is good that you have finally tossed your support behind someone for judge, but you very well know that you should have declared that you liked DT or Blade yesterday and really pushed for him from the beginning of the cycle if you wanted one of them to have a chance. I think DT would be a solid choice, as well. I think hoops will be fine and, as I said earlier, I think he is, at worst, a neutral player in this game. Blade, I'm not so sure of, based on some of his comments yesterday (which could have been legitimate or could have been dekes).

I disagree about it being an obvious hint. In the midst of what everyone else was saying, it was not obvious to me and many others. If ntn or anyone else clearly saw that he was going down and did nothing about it, I question that choice. Yes, it would suck to have an outted detective, but it is preferable to a deceased detective. There were several of us on near the deadline that could have swung things in the last 15 minutes, when it was apparent that it was likely to be ntn.

Yesterday, at the beginning of Day One he wouldn't have had the same info.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

hmmm

if people want to put me up for the judgeship opposite hoops that's fine. But let's decide if that's actually viable before we give the mafia a chance to use my candidacy to hide votes.

I agree that the 2 votes for BK are suspicious, moreso since CR voted for him yesterday as well from what I remember.

But I wouldn't think BOTH of those people are mafioso. One of them possibly though.

DT, nothing against you. I would be willing to support and vote for you, if you had drawn support and made your intentions really clear early today or (even better) last night.

But right now, entertaining two candidates is going to lead us nowhere if we need a majority to elect a judge. If you and hoops split the vote, at all, the mafia will be able to cast a few throwaway votes and keep us without a judge again.

I urge you to not do this. If we fall short today, I will be more than willing to support you tomorrow.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Yesterday, at the beginning of Day One he wouldn't have had the same info.

I don't follow?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

DT, nothing against you. I would be willing to support and vote for you, if you had drawn support and made your intentions really clear early today or (even better) last night.

But right now, entertaining two candidates is going to lead us nowhere if we need a majority to elect a judge. If you and hoops split the vote, at all, the mafia will be able to cast a few throwaway votes and keep us without a judge again.

I urge you to not do this. If we fall short today, I will be more than willing to support you tomorrow.

I had assumed that I was the logical choice for a second candidate which is why I hadn't said anything earlier.

Like I said though, I'd rather we get a judge elected, whoever it may be. That wasn't me campaigning for votes just now. It was just me saying "let's decide on a candidate and then unite behind them."

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

No way the mafia actually want one of their own as a judge. From what I can tell behind the scenes there is a lot of information to be had and it'd be very easy for a judge in power to have their entire past sniffed out and dumped on the front lawn for us all to see.

So, in other words, by your logic - everybody who volunteered to be a judge is cleared?

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

So, in other words, by your logic - everybody who volunteered to be a judge is cleared?

I mean cleared to some degree - not full proof obviously. But clear to yor mind.

[Lathum]

OK, I submitted my vote for H--PSG--Y for judge.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I disagree about the mafia wanting one of their own as a judge. I think they would prefer to do exactly what they did yesterday, have a frontrunner with a few other players in the running as a anonymous tossaway votes. If one of their own acts as judge, they would have to answer to the masses if they make poor decisions. No judge is better than a mafia controlled judge, in my opinion.

Again, same question as Tyrith - following your logic, those that volunteered for judgeship are very unlikely to be wolves, correct?

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Lathum

OK, I submitted my vote for H--PSG--Y for judge.

PSG - that's gonna be my new name for hoops for a while. PSG.

Pet Shop Girls!


-Anxiety

[Lathum]

ha!!

I do want to go on record as saying I think Blade would be a better choice.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

No judge is better than a mafia controlled judge, in my opinion.

Wait a minute. Isn't this what I've been saying all along?

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

So, in other words, by your logic - everybody who volunteered to be a judge is cleared?

No, because volunteering for judge and pushing for a judge are different things. It's possible hoops is bad and we kind of forced him into it. However, a giant mafia push to get one of their own in power seems like it would do nothing more than get them into trouble. And most of the people that volunteered for judge never had any chance of being elected.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Again, same question as Tyrith - following your logic, those that volunteered for judgeship are very unlikely to be wolves, correct?

I wouldn't say they are all cleared. I believe that the mafia would much rather have no judge than a judge that is mafia-controlled, though. I don't think they would want a judge, as a judge can sentence people out of the game, basically giving us an opportunity to knock out two of them in one day. And, if one of their own is a judge, they would have to act appropriately or gain suspicion.

I would most closely look at the throwaway votes, particularly after we try to come to a consensus on who we are supporting as a group, to see if they did just enough to keep a judge from coming into office.

[Tyrith]

Personally I'd rather have a mafia controlled judge than no judge because we WILL smoke out a mafia judge and there will be evidence all over the place, which we can use to gather further information and roll up a lot of the team.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by path12

Wait a minute. Isn't this what I've been saying all along?

Out of context.

I think that the mafia would rather have no judge than a mafia-controlled judge. No judge = no sentencing. A mafia judge = maybe more lenient sentencing, but more scrutiny on one of their own, in a game they need to even numbers to win.

I, personally, would rather have any judge, than no judge. Even if we elect a mafia-controlled judge, his actions will be telling.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Personally I'd rather have a mafia controlled judge than no judge because we WILL smoke out a mafia judge and there will be evidence all over the place, which we can use to gather further information and roll up a lot of the team.

Looks like you and I are on the same track here, except you said it in far fewer words.

[Swaggs]

I have to leave in about 10 minutes... won't be back until around 8 PM EST.

And, I will be voting late.

[st.cronin]

Barkeep is now the vote leader, for no reason that I have seen. Fascinating.

[st.cronin]

Also Blade has not said one word today.

[Lathum]

VOTE JONATHAN E

He has been much quieter then usual and his seemingly throw away vote are enough for me to give him my vote.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Also Blade has not said one word today.

IIRC he is in school alot during the day

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Lathum

IIRC he is in school alot during the day

He was pretty noisy yesterday, during the day iirc.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

He was pretty noisy yesterday, during the day iirc.

dunno, maybe he had a snow day yesterday

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Lathum

dunno, maybe he had a snow day yesterday

ya all that snow we get here in AZ

[SnDvls]

dola -
it gets pretty chipper here, but not snow

[Lathum]

[st.cronin]

So Chief Rum and Marathoner cast votes for Barkeep. Chief Rum's vote is marginally understandable given how he has described his role. Marathoner's vote is just baffling. No reason given at all: Perhaps he was hoping to inspire a lynch mob?

I have no feel on Barkeep either way, it's just a very odd vote.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Lathum

IIRC he is in school alot during the day

Originally Posted by st.cronin

He was pretty noisy yesterday, during the day iirc.

If you read, i told you all monday what my schedule was like. To reiterate to cronin, i have classes monday wednesday and friday(though a lot shorter on fridays). Tuesday and thursday im totally free.

Thank you for that lathum, cronin was just trying to get me before i got here to go after him.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Personally I'd rather have a mafia controlled judge than no judge because we WILL smoke out a mafia judge and there will be evidence all over the place, which we can use to gather further information and roll up a lot of the team.

Bingo!

I also very much doubt the mafia would risk putting 1/3 or 4 of their numbers out in the open at this stage of the game. Later on, yeah, but not now.

I am now definitely voting hoopsguy for judge.

And if you follow this logic I really don't understand the argument that someone who declared early for Anxiety yesterday would be a bad guy. You might argue that they would be trying to mislead people about the number of votes but they also run the risk of starting a bandwagon, which is exactly what good guys want.

We need 10 votes from, probably, 14 good guys. If we don't get a judge soon we're never going to get one. We can't afford to split the vote. We can't afford to wait and see. Tomorrow we could be down to needing 9 votes from 12 good guys.

[Blade6119]

My day action is sent in, and cronin was my target. Ill let you know what i found out if its worth noting in comparison to my DT target

[Tyrith]

The thing is that I would find Marathoner's vote much less suspicious than CR's in a vacuum, because we did talk about BK yesterday and CR put the second vote on someone. As it stands if nothing else happens I'm willing to write it off as a bunch of nothing....for now.

[hoopsguy]

I think the reasons to vote Barkeep49 from yesterday (when I voted for him) are still there - his conflicting statements about his wealth being the most noteworthy.

I have no problem with path12 questioning my judge candidacy - I know I would do the same if certain people were nominated. But I would encourage people to pick an alternate quickly if we are considering going in that direction.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

If you read, i told you all monday what my schedule was like. To reiterate to cronin, i have classes monday wednesday and friday(though a lot shorter on fridays). Tuesday and thursday im totally free.

Thank you for that lathum, cronin was just trying to get me before i got here to go after him.

Trying to get you? I guess you didn't actually notice who I voted for.

[Blade6119]

VOTE ST. CRONIN

With a day action pending, it may yet change...before i get results back though, hes still far and away my top suspect

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Trying to get you? I guess you didn't actually notice who I voted for.

I noticed who you voted for, and you didnt vote me day one. This may sound odd, but i would have trusted you more had you voted me back. Your seeming desire to avoid a face-off or the spotlight makes me doubt you more. It may be confusing, but thats where i stand

[hoopsguy]

Blade6119, a couple of questions about your abilities - not that I'm expecting an answer, but maybe I'll be surprised:
1. Are your abilities based on spending cash?
2. Were you wiped out yesterday or just diminished in bankroll?

Just wondering how you are collecting information on people if it is money based and you are broke.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I noticed who you voted for, and you didnt vote me day one. This may sound odd, but i would have trusted you more had you voted me back. Your seeming desire to avoid a face-off or the spotlight makes me doubt you more. It may be confusing, but thats where i stand

Very confusing. You're suggesting I ignore several decent candidates to vote for the one player who is semi-cleared? That's about insane.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Blade6119, a couple of questions about your abilities - not that I'm expecting an answer, but maybe I'll be surprised:
1. Are your abilities based on spending cash?
2. Were you wiped out yesterday or just diminished in bankroll?

Just wondering how you are collecting information on people if it is money based and you are broke.

My ability itself is not based on cash...im looking for an item. But once i found i had to be able to purchase it to reaps its benefits, which i can no longer do(to answer your second question) as i was reduced to a small amount(<100). I am now forced to bet to have any hope of making it back, and id imagine i will be dead before i even get close. Im on the look-out for a new job, so anyone with a lot of cash might want to stay on the look-out for my job opening up

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Very confusing. You're suggesting I ignore several decent candidates to vote for the one player who is semi-cleared? That's about insane.

You seem to be ignoring that person when it comes the the judge to vote for whoever you do that is not cleared(hoops i think). So forgive me if i dont exactly take you at your word, as you saying you take one approach while i see you taking another(granted, in a different vote)

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

You seem to be ignoring that person when it comes the the judge to vote for whoever you do that is not cleared(hoops i think). So forgive me if i dont exactly take you at your word, as you saying you take one approach while i see you taking another(granted, in a different vote)

I would have pushed for you if I thought we could get consensus. There were a number of people who were dead-set against you being a judge on day 1.

Pushing for you as a judge (as path in fact did) is to me a very wolfish play. It would be a way to create division in the village, and possibly put off any judge being elected for another day or so.

[Narcizo]

I'm leaning towards voting ImTheCrew at the moment. Unless I'm mistaken he's fairly new playing WW and seems to be acting exactly like a new wolf would play - trying to gauge and go with the consensus and not stick out at all. As far as I can see the lynch vote in day one makes Swaggs and ITC the most suspicious people. I'm prepared to give Swaggs the benefit of the doubt for announcing for Anxiety so early, naive as that may make me seem. ITC has done nothing to make me trust him and has acted suspiciously in my mind.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I would have pushed for you if I thought we could get consensus. There were a number of people who were dead-set against you being a judge on day 1.

Pushing for you as a judge (as path in fact did) is to me a very wolfish play. It would be a way to create division in the village, and possibly put off any judge being elected for another day or so.

Well this was a post that moved you a bit up my list...my day action is still coming, so you and i will soon know if i can trust you more

[Blade6119]

So cronin, what kind of role did you say you had?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

So cronin, what kind of role did you say you had?

I have not said, and will not. For the moment.

[Blade6119]

Or if anyone has any posts by cronin talking about his situation, id like if they could quote them for me. Im doing a comparison between DT and cronin in my head right now

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I have not said, and will not. For the moment.

Did you enjoy our fight in the cafe?

[st.cronin]

Not really. You are quite the boor, you know. Somebody really ought to teach you some manners.