WW XCIV Group Therapy - Game Over!

[Danny]

As of post 850:

5 - PurdueBrad - Lathum (790), DaddyTorgo (810), Hoopsguy (822), Claphamsa (823), Dubb (846)

[PurdueBrad]

Ummm, Lathum left.

[PurdueBrad]

YAY, Lathum is back.

[DaddyTorgo]

and Lathum's back! (see i can play that game too)

[PurdueBrad]

ARGH, another person in my head!

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Ummm, Lathum left.

OK, I left because I needed to PM Danny.

This whole not mentioning anything about roles makes it pretty much impossible to say anything and be certain you aren't breaking any rules.

I'll post more when I hear from Danny but it may be a while. I may go back to sleep

The only reason I am even up right now id I had to register for fall quarter classes this morning.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Lathum

OK, I left because I needed to PM Danny.

This whole not mentioning anything about roles makes it pretty much impossible to say anything and be certain you aren't breaking any rules.

I'll post more when I hear from Danny but it may be a while. I may go back to sleep

The only reason I am even up right now id I had to register for fall quarter classes this morning.

So you are saying you know PB is bad due to your role? You aren't going on a gut feeling?

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah - the roles thing makes it tough

*shurg* i think that's more than enough for me to go on...and frankly i hope you don't say anymore lathum, b/c we don't want them to know what kind of role you have. maybe you're just the symapthizer-finder and PB is the sympathizer...etc.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by dubb93

So you are saying you know PB is bad due to your role? You aren't going on a gut feeling?

no, I'm not saying that

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Lathum

no, I'm not saying that

Alright then, I'm completely confused.

[dubb93]

I'll leave it alone, say no more Lathum. I don't want you to reveal any role you may have.

[PurdueBrad]

<------ Desperately hoping that Danny gets back to Lathum.

Timidly sits in the corner, not liking all eyes on me.

[DaddyTorgo]

it's gotta be tough for the person under-fire too

sorry PB

[claphamsa]

Lathum, are you comfortable with the fact that if PB gets voted out and comes back good your fecked?

[PurdueBrad]

Surprisingly, I'm not frustrated. There isn't much I can do here anyway. I worked too hard last night anyway. I got nothing.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

Lathum, are you comfortable with the fact that if PB gets voted out and comes back good your fecked?

No I won't be.

[Alan T]

Clap, why are you pushing that agenda so hard when it is clear that Lathum is waiting for clarification before continuing? You seem deadset on forcing a link there that has not been confirmed.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Clap, why are you pushing that agenda so hard when it is clear that Lathum is waiting for clarification before continuing? You seem deadset on forcing a link there that has not been confirmed.

yeah.

I was voting PB no matter what today, but part of the reason I voted so early was to see how things went down.

Claps reaction and DT's second vote both strike me as interesting.

[Lathum]

Well, nothing from Danny.

I am going back to sleep, then shower/breakfast, then class.

I'll be back on around 1:30 EST.

[Passacaglia]

Why doesn't hoops's reaction strike you as interesting?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Why doesn't hoops's reaction strike you as interesting?

I was wondering the same thing actually. I almost voted for Hoops earlier and then talked myself out of it under the thought that I always feel suspicious about him.

[DaddyTorgo]

I figured you had your reasons Lathum, partidularly given the mechanic of the game

[Lathum]

Hoops provided a sensible explination, however if others want to vote hoops I won't attempt to stand in their way.

I think a 2 way race probably is a good thing today.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Clap, why are you pushing that agenda so hard when it is clear that Lathum is waiting for clarification before continuing? You seem deadset on forcing a link there that has not been confirmed.

well we need some kind of clarification. either he has evidence that pb is bad, or he doesnt.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Lathum

yeah.

I was voting PB no matter what today, but part of the reason I voted so early was to see how things went down.

Claps reaction and DT's second vote both strike me as interesting.

ok, thats good enought for me

unvote PB

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

well we need some kind of clarification. either he has evidence that pb is bad, or he doesnt.

Originally Posted by claphamsa

ok, thats good enought for me

unvote PB

whats good enough for you?

All I said was I was voting PB either way.

[Danny]

I got back to Lathum, but I guess he left before I did.

[Alan T]

I am having problems this game getting feelings that really ping me as bad so far. Yesterday I had a nagging feeling inside of me where for some reason I felt Lathum and Dubb were acting in a way that they were protecting ntn. That actually led to my placing my vote there as much as PurdueBrad's discussion during the day. With ntn being good, I obviously don't feel quite as strongly about Lathum or Dubb any longer. (even though for some reason the way Dubb has involved himself in the conversations in both days feels a bit off to me, and I can't quite place why).

There was another grouping that I noticed, but couldn't quite figure out from day 1 as well.. I think I remember it as Hoops + Packerfanatic, but for the life of me can't remember what it was about those two. I do note however that Packerfanatic felt a bit too agreeable with me this morning regarding the Lathum vs PB thing.

Still, even with the people I listed, I didn't get any real strong wolf pings from them or anyone so far this game. I've had quite a number of people that feel ok to me though which also is weird.

[hoopsguy]

I haven't heard anything yet that has convinced me that there is a better vote to be had today than PB.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Hoops provided a sensible explination, however if others want to vote hoops I won't attempt to stand in their way.

I think a 2 way race probably is a good thing today.

His explanation was pretty much the same as DT and clap's really -- he was just a little wordier and cautious about it, and suggested that he might switch (which, of course, means he might not). I don't think it makes him any better than those two.

As for voting hoops, I didn't really expect you to stand in my way (and I don't know how you could, to be honest). I'm not really wanting to vote him at this point (though, like Alan, I had considered it earlier) -- I just don't think he should be left out of the list of people potentially trying to make this a runaway for PB. But I'm also not really looking to vote for anyone at the moment -- there's a lot of votes out there considering how early it is, and for the time being, I'm staying out of it.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Danny

I got back to Lathum, but I guess he left before I did.

I have a follow up question in but basically I can't say much.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I haven't heard anything yet that has convinced me that there is a better vote to be had today than PB.

By this, do you mean that your earlier reasons still apply, or that despite what appears to be a slight backtrack from Lathum, you still think PB is the best choice?

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I can tell you that there is no reason (at least in my mind) for a linkage with PackerFanatic and me. What I did note about him yesterday is that on two separate occasions he followed Pass on votes.

Post #284 - Pass votes Lerriuqs (who voted for him first)
Post #333 - PF votes Lerriuqs
Post #341 - Pass unvotes Lerriuqs
Post #357 - PF unvotes Lerriuqs
Post #370 - Pass votes NTN
Post #374 - PF votes NTN

What do I make of this? Honestly, I don't know but I've got it down as some kind of linkage between the two of them until proven otherwise.

[Lathum]

Pass, I gotta be honest. You are playing the same exact way you played during the Office Space game when you were a wolf.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

By this, do you mean that your earlier reasons still apply, or that despite what appears to be a slight backtrack from Lathum, you still think PB is the best choice?

I'm not sure how much of a backtrack is here. Lathum has made it clear he wants to let us know something about his role and/or involving PB but has also made it clear Danny is not letting him do so. Could be wolf BS or it could mean he caught PB.

[Lathum]

Ok, that's about all I can say as per Danny.

I'm not the seer or BG, nor do I want the seer or BG to come out. However, I stand by my vote for PB and hope we get some meaningful discussion/ vote history from today.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Pass, I gotta be honest. You are playing the same exact way you played during the Office Space game when you were a wolf.

Man, I barely remember the Office Space game -- since I was a wolf, I probably didn't live long. What did I do there?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I'm not sure how much of a backtrack is here. Lathum has made it clear he wants to let us know something about his role and/or involving PB but has also made it clear Danny is not letting him do so. Could be wolf BS or it could mean he caught PB.

That is true, but he's also been worried about the people following him on his vote. If he's that sure, why is he so worried about them?

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

By this, do you mean that your earlier reasons still apply, or that despite what appears to be a slight backtrack from Lathum, you still think PB is the best choice?

We had three people in a vote yesterday. One of them has been proven to be good (NT). So PB is a person of interest for the vote today.

PB would also have been a person of interest for people with good roles and actions last night, although my (stated) preference would have been EF. So with him having a higher likelihood of drawing investigative actions last night, that makes him more interesting than the average bear.

Take these two points, then add in that a player came out and voted him right away today and I think that there is certainly smoke here.

I've also weighed a couple of possibilities of how this would not work out well for the villagers. Probably tops on that list is that Lathum is the Sympathizer and is deliberately creating an exercise that wastes our time by creating that 1:1 trade that Clap has been pointing out this morning. But I think Lathum would probably have waited one more day to spring that, especially since the Sympathizer role would "scan good".

Overall, I think the risk/reward on this vote beats a random vote on another villager. I'm willing to move if someone can come out and create a more convincing case for getting a wolf than what I see around PB right now.

Oh, and in the event that Lathum is leading us in the wrong direction then at least PB has told us he has a minor role. So we wouldn't be making a really big mistake lynching him, right? That is a very distant consideration in my decision but I figured I would add it as well to more or less wrap up my thought process on the vote as it stands right now.

The only reason I don't like putting together long posts like this on my thoughts is that it potentially provides an outlet for other people to justify their votes. Normally I like to sit on some of this stuff for at least a little while to see how others read the situation.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I'm not sure how much of a backtrack is here. Lathum has made it clear he wants to let us know something about his role and/or involving PB but has also made it clear Danny is not letting him do so. Could be wolf BS or it could mean he caught PB.

But putting it this way helps me get some perspective, and try to see if both sides are right here. Maybe Lathum's role lets him block someone from making an action, and the combination of him choosing to block PB, combined with no kill, means that Lathum is thinking that the odds are better on PB than anyone else, as far as he's concerned?

[hoopsguy]

Pass, what you are describing sounds an awful lot like the ability we just lost with NTN. I would be mildly surprised if there were that much overlap between good villager roles.

[Lathum]

All I can say is I have my reasons for voting PB. If others chose to follow that's fine, but I am not going to openly campaign against him. Sorry for being so cryptic but I can't go into more detail.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

The only reason I don't like putting together long posts like this on my thoughts is that it potentially provides an outlet for other people to justify their votes. Normally I like to sit on some of this stuff for at least a little while to see how others read the situation.

You certainly didn't have to put it in a long post if you didn't want to. I would have been satisfied if all you had said was that it's not just because of Lathum's actions.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Man, I barely remember the Office Space game -- since I was a wolf, I probably didn't live long. What did I do there?

you were very passive aggressive in defending certain players and possible mechanics and whatnot.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Pass, what you are describing sounds an awful lot like the ability we just lost with NTN. I would be mildly surprised if there were that much overlap between good villager roles.

That's a good point. Then again, we have 20+ people all with some kind of role? I could see it. But I'll have to look up ntn's role again to remind myself.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Lathum

you were very passive aggressive in defending certain players and possible mechanics and whatnot.

I don't really see myself as passive aggressive here -- just trying to tap in to what everyone is thinking, and how they view the game. And I certainly don't think I'm defending anyone today -- I don't trust anyone, you're all wolves, and the problem is that I can only vote for one of you!

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Lathum

whats good enough for you?

All I said was I was voting PB either way.

this tells me its not based off some role, that you just decieed to vote before you went to bed.

[Autumn]

An interesting choice to criticize EagleFan. As one of the top vote getters yesterday an attack by the Needies suggests (but certainly doesn't prove) that he's a regular patient. So, why would they direct their attention to someone who might have been a contender again today? NTN coming up good, EagleFan looking good, this leads us to consider PurdueBrad, the other votegetter from yesterday. It makes me wary about chasing PB.

(I think I'm remembering the vote getters correctly though I need to go back and write the numbers down.)

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Pass, what you are describing sounds an awful lot like the ability we just lost with NTN. I would be mildly surprised if there were that much overlap between good villager roles.

Just looked -- yeah, what I'm talking about sounds EXACTLY like ntn's role, which is probably what made me think of it. Poo.

[PurdueBrad]

Hey guys, without a reveal from either Lathum or I (which neither do I want nor can either of us do apparently), I have no reason or way to fight this.

Here are my thoughts the rest of the way for the village:

I would assume at least 1 of the first 5 on me are wolves.

I still am very suspicious of Telle (but given my ntn read, take it for what you will)

Martin D mildly pinged me but it is likely me over-personalizing his vote

I'll be around but I laid it all out yesterday. Also, for the seer or anyone else that got info about me last night: I'm probably not worth saving so do NOT reveal in anyway. In fact, I would encourage you to put a vote on me too just so the wolves can't do their own vote analysis.