Werewolf 40,000: The Horus Heresy CHAOS DEFEATED; MUTANTS SURVIVE

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Blade lynched himself here, and I still say Saldana is 100% on the emperor's side

No. I actually tend to believe you about Saldana, but Blade did NOT lynch himself. You, Saldana and Fouts did that. Your motives may well have been good. The result obviously leaves quite a bit to be desired.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I was told that I am sure 100% that he is devoted to the emperor. I dont know enough about the story to know if someone can be mutant and devoted to the emperor. All I know is Blade was and still is wrong about Saldana being chaos or a wolf.

I would think so, if Chaos wins, they won't so, they really don't want the emperor overthrown.

Not saying Sal is 100% a mutant but, is a case for you thinking he is 100% for the emperor and he isn't Chaotic.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

No. I actually tend to believe you about Saldana, but Blade did NOT lynch himself. You, Saldana and Fouts did that. Your motives may well have been good. The result obviously leaves quite a bit to be desired.

He was given many opportunities though to present his case, and he chose not to. Maybe I am too close to the situation here, but I just don't see how he didn't seem suspicious with his actions.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Do you have a timeline for that? I had to glaze over things, but my impression was that Alan came out in support of saldana unbidden, before saldana had received any heat.

I did a kind of timeline in post 681 (page 14 for me).

[path12]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

I still think we should be at some of the more non-confrontational people.

Kind of hard to look at the quiet people when there's a riot goin' on......

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

He was given many opportunities though to present his case, and he chose not to. Maybe I am too close to the situation here, but I just don't see how he didn't seem suspicious with his actions.

Well, he presented his case well enough so that seven of us believed him. I think some folks just find Blade easy to vote for no matter what he says. Which is a shame, because although Blade can be a pain in the ass, he's also a helluva player and a huge help when good.

[path12]

Dola, I mean pain in the ass in the nicest possible way, Blade.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

Well, he presented his case well enough so that seven of us believed him. I think some folks just find Blade easy to vote for no matter what he says. Which is a shame, because although Blade can be a pain in the ass, he's also a helluva player and a huge help when good.

I personally enjoy playing with Blade and have no problems with him. My sole reason for voting him was he was convinced someone I knew was good was bad and didnt back down.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I personally enjoy playing with Blade and have no problems with him. My sole reason for voting him was he was convinced someone I knew was good was bad and didnt back down.

I know Alan, I wondered how that was going to read and apologize if it came out wrong. I wasn't really referring to anyone in particular, just reacting to how the last few games have gone with him going out early a lot lately.

When I left my office I was 75% you and Saldana were bad. Catching up to deadline, that number is going down quite a bit. As of this moment I wouldn't vote for either of you tomorrow.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I personally enjoy playing with Blade and have no problems with him. My sole reason for voting him was he was convinced someone I knew was good was bad and didnt back down.

You ever see him back down from anything? He believed what he saw to be the truth, and he was good and devoted to the Emporer. And he's dead because of a crusade you and saldana led against him.

Personally, if I were you, I would try to be coming up with something, anything, to explain how both of your versions (yours/saldana's & Blade's) are true. I mean something besides "don't kill me, I'm good".

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You ever see him back down from anything? He believed what he saw to be the truth, and he was good and devoted to the Emporer. And he's dead because of a crusade you and saldana led against him.

Personally, if I were you, I would try to be coming up with something, anything, to explain how both of your versions (yours/saldana's & Blade's) are true. I mean something besides "don't kill me, I'm good".

Im not going to try to fabricate something just to make Blade's story work with mine. I assume after the game is over, we will figure that all out. I'll keep telling the truth and if that gets me lynched so be it. I'm not going to make up stuff to explain things I don't know. I told you all what I did know and so far I have not been proven wrong. (I still say Saldana is 100% on the emperor's side.)

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I personally enjoy playing with Blade and have no problems with him. My sole reason for voting him was he was convinced someone I knew was good was bad and didnt back down.

If Blade was an Imperial and Sal was a mutant, in his eyes (or whatever his role was), Sal whould be bad and possible Sal would be seen as 'not bad' since he was a mutant.

Although.. if Sal is a mutant, we want him gone. Geez.. I missed the obvious that we want a complete victory and that is to eliminate chaos AND mutants.

Anyone.. anyone.. bueller..

Oh well, 24 hours to hash anything out.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Mustang

If Blade was an Imperial and Sal was a mutant, in his eyes (or whatever his role was), Sal whould be bad and possible Sal would be seen as 'not bad' since he was a mutant.

Could you say this again using different words? I didn't quite get where you were going with this.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Mustang

If Blade was an Imperial and Sal was a mutant, in his eyes (or whatever his role was), Sal whould be bad and possible Sal would be seen as 'not bad' since he was a mutant.

Blade never said Saldana was a mutant IIRC. Blade was trying to bait GE and Grey yesterday. He switched to Saldana after Sal said he saw Blade talking to a still unknown person, because Blade knew he never left his residence.

Then everything went to hell and it turned into Blade/Saldana.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Mustang

If Blade was an Imperial and Sal was a mutant, in his eyes (or whatever his role was), Sal whould be bad and possible Sal would be seen as 'not bad' since he was a mutant.

Although.. if Sal is a mutant, we want him gone. Geez.. I missed the obvious that we want a complete victory and that is to eliminate chaos AND mutants.

Anyone.. anyone.. bueller..

Oh well, 24 hours to hash anything out.

Yup, I noted the complete victory conditions as well, and that's why I originally pushed for GE earlier today. I felt (and still feel) that his Day 1 actions were very odd, but not so much like a wolf. That's why I hypothesized he is a mutant and should be voted for, for lack of another target (at the time). Some continued odd patterns of posting today, along with Blade's revelation of the conversation between Greyroofoo and GE have only added to my suspicions.

That said, I am still not ready to give Alan T/sal a free pass here. Has it occurred to anyone that they may have hatched this whole plan as wolves in PM's, and took a calculated risk by aiming at Blade, whom has been known to be an easy voting target who is not well trusted. If it fails, of course, it could backfire disastrously, but if it succeeds (and it did), Alan and saldana could very well spin it exactly as they are now, setting themselves up as good and wide open. If there are three wolves, too, it wouldn't necessarily end the game to do this, still leaving a possibility for victory even if it fails.

Is it a stretch? Of course. But it is one version of today's events that explains the difference in stories between Blade and saldana--saldana could be lying.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by path12

Blade never said Saldana was a mutant IIRC. Blade was trying to bait GE and Grey yesterday. He switched to Saldana after Sal said he saw Blade talking to a still unknown person, because Blade knew he never left his residence.

Then everything went to hell and it turned into Blade/Saldana.

That's another thing I still don't get. How does saldana not know who he followed last night? He said he didn't follow Blade, but the person he followed met Blade. He claimed to not know who he followed. I thought the witness selected who he follows; how would saldana not know this?

Perhaps it's some twist in the witness role for this particular WW game by tanglewood. Or perhaps saldana (and Alan) didn't want to name another player, because they knew doing so would bring on two people discouting their story, instead of just Blade. Blade by himself you can blow by, because people don't trust him in WW games. If Blade and someone else both denied a meeting (presumeably someone with more believability), it would be harder to ward off the naysayers.

[st.cronin]

I'm really puzzled by what happened yesterday. I was as sure that Blade would turn up funky as I've been about somebody in a long time. There were too many holes in his story. I assume that he was probably spinning some shit, and the question is WHY. What happened that night - I would still like to hear more from GE and greyroofoo about that. I would like GE to explain the game mechanic which allowed him to know that Blade was good. I would like to hear more from Alan about why saldana is so important, even though saldana himself said his witness was a 1-time use. I would like to kill some Chaos. But, alas, I wait in my cell with Fouts.

[Chief Rum]

My current suspect list:

1. saldana
2. GE
3. Greyroofoo
4. AlanT (but he jumps to the top if sal turns bad)
5. Fouts
5. bulletsponge (because the bastard keeps voting for me )

I don't have much trust for anyone, but I feel a good level of trust for twothree, st. cronin and path. Although I am not sure I would have put Fouts and st. cronin together in the security chamber.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Yup, I noted the complete victory conditions as well, and that's why I originally pushed for GE earlier today. I felt (and still feel) that his Day 1 actions were very odd, but not so much like a wolf. That's why I hypothesized he is a mutant and should be voted for, for lack of another target (at the time). Some continued odd patterns of posting today, along with Blade's revelation of the conversation between Greyroofoo and GE have only added to my suspicions.

That said, I am still not ready to give Alan T/sal a free pass here. Has it occurred to anyone that they may have hatched this whole plan as wolves in PM's, and took a calculated risk by aiming at Blade, whom has been known to be an easy voting target who is not well trusted. If it fails, of course, it could backfire disastrously, but if it succeeds (and it did), Alan and saldana could very well spin it exactly as they are now, setting themselves up as good and wide open. If there are three wolves, too, it wouldn't necessarily end the game to do this, still leaving a possibility for victory even if it fails.

Is it a stretch? Of course. But it is one version of today's events that explains the difference in stories between Blade and saldana--saldana could be lying.

I have thought about this, too. Perhaps saldana/Alan = Chaos, and greyroofoo/GE = mutants?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I have thought about this, too. Perhaps saldana/Alan = Chaos, and greyroofoo/GE = mutants?

In my hypotheses, that is how it would play out. Although the one flaw there is that I don't think mutants can "convert", like you would think Chaos could. After all, either you are a mutant or you are not. So if GE and greyroofoo are mutants, then that meeting wasn't about converting. And if it wasn't about converting, what the heck was it about?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

My current suspect list:

1. saldana
2. GE
3. Greyroofoo
4. AlanT (but he jumps to the top if sal turns bad)
5. Fouts
5. bulletsponge (because the bastard keeps voting for me )

I don't have much trust for anyone, but I feel a good level of trust for twothree, st. cronin and path. Although I am not sure I would have put Fouts and st. cronin together in the security chamber.

Why Fouts? And why do you trust path? Path has twice made what I consider to be an odd move.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Why Fouts? And why do you trust path? Path has twice made what I consider to be an odd move.

I would have to go back and look to be sure, but my impression is that Fouts was vocal earleir today in support of sal and Alan. He did vote for Blade, and was the tiebreaker that got Blade killed.

path is just a hunch, really. He voted for greyroofoo, who was probably my primary suspect today if I didn't feel responsibility to participate in the close vote so close to the deadline (I didn't want to hide from the Blade/sal debate). He has also made some comments and observations that I tend to agree with, so maybe it's as simple as he thinks like me AND I am good SO he must be good. My trust in path is weaker than it is with you and twothree.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

In my hypotheses, that is how it would play out. Although the one flaw there is that I don't think mutants can "convert", like you would think Chaos could. After all, either you are a mutant or you are not. So if GE and greyroofoo are mutants, then that meeting wasn't about converting. And if it wasn't about converting, what the heck was it about?

Could one of them have been giving instructions to the other?

[twothree]

Finally got caught up. My head is spinning. Chaos is mighty strong in this game of Werewolf. I applaud whoever is behind all of it. Even if it turns out to be the villagers causing the chaos.

I would like to point out that saldana was the first to vote for Realdeal on day 1 and lobbied for his execution. Result realdeal the invulnerable to night kills player was executed and was an imperium. Then on day 2 saldana was the first to vote for blade and lobbied for his execution. Result Blade the bodyguard was executed and turned out to be an imperium. Remember this for later everbody.

Having wrote that, I will not be voting for saldana tommorrow. I will be casting my vote for greyroofoo, who tried to meet with GoldenEagle and possibly tried to convert him.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Could one of them have been giving instructions to the other?

Hmm, maybe. Can mutants communicate via PM? I would guess that that bit about the mental psyker suggests no, that it is a one time per night thing. But then, if you can communicate telepathically (isn't that what psykers do, someone who knows this universe confirm please, Mustang?), would you bother to meet in person?

I think another possibility is that greyroofoo might be a wolf, and the wolves decided that GE acted odd enough to be a potential target for conversion. In that way, a conversion could happen--convert GE into a Chaos mutant (and how F'd up would that be?).

But that's just speculation out of my ass, I will admit. That meeting between GE and greyroofoo is really odd, and I don't buy their explanation for a minute.

[Alan T]

I will say, if Saldana ends up being against the Emperor, lynch me. Since my usefulness is zilch. The only information I have provided so far in this game is that killing him would be bad. If that information is wrong, what good am I?

[Fouts]

Well, it appears we were duped. Blade's story was so crappy that I didn't think there was a way for it to be the truth.

Some people are holding back information, which isn't helping us. Waiting until the deadline to post you know somebody is good doesn't help.

If you want to lynch me over the blade kill, go ahead. My only usefulness is in the tiebreakers. I'm going to try and stay low tomorrow and let somebody else take the lead. I royally screwed this one up.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I will say, if Saldana ends up being against the Emperor, lynch me. Since my usefulness is zilch. The only information I have provided so far in this game is that killing him would be bad. If that information is wrong, what good am I?

for all we know, your a badie who scaned him somehow, found oput he was a goodguy and is now hiding behind him. if things went bad today or tomorow Sal would get the axe first most likely, he would turn up good, thus making you look better.

[Mustang]

As a note, psykers abilities aren't limited to items just as being psychic and communicating. There are alot of different abilities that can be done by a psyker depending on what they are. For example, Chaos psykers could summon demons while other races just may use their abilities for a defensives nature. Essentially, psykers are magic users (in a way). It is also possible for a psyker to be demonically possessed or even go insane. As a further note, the Astronomican is essentially a large group of strong psykers that allow for faster than light communication and are attached to the emperor...

[st.cronin]

Golden Eagle and greyroofoo really need to explain themselves, I think.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by twothree

Having wrote that, I will not be voting for saldana tommorrow. I will be casting my vote for greyroofoo, who tried to meet with GoldenEagle and possibly tried to convert him.

I don't think Grey tried to convert GE. If Blade can be believed (which he probably now can), he was standing watch over GE last night. If Grey was going there to convert GE, the bodyguard should have worked to fend him off. I'm believing that Grey and GE are already on the same team. That is the only way it makes sense that he got past the bodyguard. I'm just not sure which team they are on.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Golden Eagle and greyroofoo really need to explain themselves, I think.

I would concur.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Could you say this again using different words? I didn't quite get where you were going with this.

I meant that it was possible that Blade was right in that Sal was bad. (mutants and chaos are both bad to the Imperials)

It could also mean that, if scanned, Sal could be viewed as 'For the Emperor'.

Hope that makes a little more sense...

I thought before that maybe this was the case going on that one group was a mutant and one group good. Although.. it is still a hunch but, the above case could explain alot more.

And, if it is the case, I would have to vote Sal tomorrow as it stands.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I don't think Grey tried to convert GE. If Blade can be believed (which he probably now can), he was standing watch over GE last night. If Grey was going there to convert GE, the bodyguard should have worked to fend him off. I'm believing that Grey and GE are already on the same team. That is the only way it makes sense that he got past the bodyguard. I'm just not sure which team they are on.

There is a certain logic to that. Is it possible in this scenario that AlanT and saldana are telling the truth? Is there any way to make that fit?

[Mustang]

Note: I know I'm taking alot of liberties here in trying to explain what was happening today and just coming up with one possible scenario... Could just be waaaaay overthinking it. (Don't we all have the tendency to do that..)

[Fouts]

How did twothree and GE know that blade was good? Can anyone explain that?

[st.cronin]

Also I'm pretty sure that greyroofoo and GE have given conflicting accounts of their meeting ... which is really pretty mind blowing when you think about it.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Also I'm pretty sure that greyroofoo and GE have given conflicting accounts of their meeting ... which is really pretty mind blowing when you think about it.

Misinformation works against us, I don't know what they are doing. Too many shady people in this game.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Fouts

How did twothree and GE know that blade was good? Can anyone explain that?

Personally.. no idea. Not this many people can have this many roles but, sure alot of people that 'know' everything about alot of people.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Misinformation works against us, I don't know what they are doing. Too many shady people in this game.

I agree. Question for you: If you were path, what would you have done night 1?

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I agree. Question for you: If you were path, what would you have done night 1?

Well after day 1 I thought the most important person was GE. I'm not sure what your role does. I haven't had any problems with path's choices though. His job is pretty difficult.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Well after day 1 I thought the most important person was GE. I'm not sure what your role does. I haven't had any problems with path's choices though. His job is pretty difficult.

I'm just surprised that he hasn't locked himself up. That would have been my night 1 move.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I'm just surprised that he hasn't locked himself up. That would have been my night 1 move.

Good point. He trusts you enough to keep you safe, but not alone with him.

[st.cronin]

Golden Eagle is in thread and still refusing to explain himself.

[Fouts]

saldana has been sitting in the thread for a long time, too. I wish we could PM each other since we're locked up together.

[st.cronin]

Hopefully morning brings some solid, trustworthy information.

[path12]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I'm just surprised that he hasn't locked himself up. That would have been my night 1 move.

I thought of that, but what really happened was this. It was originally going to be you and one other person who shall remain nameless. This other person would not have been able to use his night action if he had been in the cell. I discovered this very near my deadline. So I removed him and decided that I didn't trust anyone enough to be put in with you and frankly at that deadline didn't think of putting myself in.

I may have to cancel some night actions in the future though now that our bodyguard is dead.

[path12]

Dola, that first part should read 'I thought of that after the fact,'

[path12]

Originally Posted by Fouts

How did twothree and GE know that blade was good? Can anyone explain that?

It was explained at the time, but I'll wait until after morning to discuss it further.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Good point. He trusts you enough to keep you safe, but not alone with him.

For the delayed quadruple dola, there's truth to this statement. That's partly why you're both in there together.