Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[RainMaker]

They did put him with Jake the Snake, so they had some hopes for him. But agree, not sure why that died unless it was an availability issue.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It took a completely unexpected G1 for anyone to really discover that he could work though. And he IS 44 now, so maybe that slows the push desire some.

These same peeps still keep Jericho at main event level though and all he really has left is his mic skills. Plus Mox and Kingston are not exactly spring chickens and Punk is 42

Edit: And I realize with Jericho it's to give other younger guys a rub, and Archer doesn't have that credibility built up over here, but still, he is the kind of guy that would have been like Bruiser Brody in the 80's.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

These same peeps still keep Jericho at main event level though and all he really has left is his mic skills. Plus Mox and Kingston are not exactly spring chickens and Punk is 42

Edit: And I realize with Jericho it's to give other younger guys a rub, and Archer doesn't have that credibility built up over here, but still, he is the kind of guy that would have been like Bruiser Brody in the 80's.

Make no mistake, after his G1 performance I'm not crapping on Hoyt at all. He's capable (or was, but presumably still close to that) of doing better work than a lot of people on a lot of rosters.

Here's the thing though: he's not part of the ruling clique AND he's 44. That's going to limit his push ceiling almost certainly

[molson]

Sounds like HHH had a heart attack but is stable and recovering.

[RainMaker]

Question, are chairs gimmicked in wrestling? Seems like a lot of the tables are but the chairs seem legit.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Question, are chairs gimmicked in wrestling? Seems like a lot of the tables are but the chairs seem legit.

Varies afaik. Sometimes the "gimmick" is simply making sure you have a cheap ass chair you know should break.

Blue Meanie described the process this way

Meanie brought up the notion that AEW used a gimmicked steel chair and he then explained how you would go about in creating that.

“Lance Storm said they would take the pins out of the legs for Balls Mahoney’s chair shots,” revealed Meanie. “That was when he was working with Masato Tanaka who had really bad neck problems. But with the chair Cody took, you could tell they worked it over. What you do is hit it on something like a sharp corner and then push the dent back into place. The best way I can describe it is like pushing on a Snapple lid.

“It’s dented to where it’s gonna go 3-4 times easier that if you would have hit him with a chair straight out of Office Max

[RainMaker]

Interesting. I was putting away some chairs over the weekend and thought "this would really hurt to hit someone in the head with".

My favorite "weapon" is the incredibly cheap garbage cans they would use in the past. Wrestlers would sell that like being hit with a brick.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Interesting. I was putting away some chairs over the weekend and thought "this would really hurt to hit someone in the head with".

My favorite "weapon" is the incredibly cheap garbage cans they would use in the past. Wrestlers would sell that like being hit with a brick.

The severity of the blow is directly connected to the sound it makes ... and those things -- particularly the lids -- were loud a.f.

[molson]

About 20 years ago now I was ringside for a RAW show in Syracuse when X-Pac had just returned and was grabbing a chair at ringside to take into the ring during a DX beatdown of the Disciples of Apocalypse I think. Right in front of us, he grabbed a chair from one end of the row of chairs, felt it, put it back, and then grabbed a chair from the other end of the row of chairs. So we figured that one was gimmicked in some way. But ya, it can be done either way. I think if you use it evenly surface-wise against the flat part of the back, it doesn't matter much either way, but there are other chair uses, like that AEW match Blue Meanie was talking about, that it makes sense to make some adjustments.

Edit: As an aside, what a run of shows we had in Syracuse during my college years. We saw the the segment where Stone Cold showed up in a suit to tease he was going "corporate", and then low-blowed McMahon - I think it was the first time they had a physical altercation. And we saw the cage match before the '97 Mania when Bret Hart lost by some shenanigans to Psycho Sid and cut the "this is bullshit" promo that started his heel turn. And, greatest of all, I was there was David Arquette won the WCW World Title.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

I think if you use it evenly surface-wise against the flat part of the back, it doesn't matter much either way

They're definitely not always gimmicked, or at least weren't, depending on where you were.

I know this because David Young and Rick Michaels both used chairs I bought a ticket to sit in more than once waaay back in the NWA-Georgia (later merged into Wildside) days.

[RainMaker]

So the report out there is they wanted to turn Adam Cole, one of the best wrestlers in the world, into Keith Lee's manager on the main roster.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

So the report out there is they wanted to turn Adam Cole, one of the best wrestlers in the world, into Keith Lee's manager on the main roster.

Well he is an indie geek, so it would seem that's a generous offer! /s

[RainMaker]

One of the few who stays in character.

pic.twitter.com/djHXwdMZjq

— Maxwell Jacob Friedman™️ (@The_MJF) September 13, 2021

[BYU 14]

MJF is such an old soul when it comes to the nuances' of wrestling, and he can work too. Totally would have been a perfect fit in the territory days.

[RainMaker]

How did the old territories deal with injured wrestlers who held titles? Saw that Samoa Joe relinquished his title and it just seems like it happens a lot in modern wrestling. Can't really ever remember a scenario when I was a kid when that happened.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

How did the old territories deal with injured wrestlers who held titles? Saw that Samoa Joe relinquished his title and it just seems like it happens a lot in modern wrestling. Can't really ever remember a scenario when I was a kid when that happened.

It really didn't happen as much since the impact moves were nowhere near as prevalent. Many wrestlers would work through legit injuries long enough to get the title off of them, or do something similar to what they did with Dynamite Kid after his back surgery.

As far as I can remember nearly all of the "major injuries" that had wrestlers in the hospital were works so they could go on a tour of Japan, or something like that.

Example of that (DeBiase sold it with neck brace and hospital bed and all before leaving to Japan) When he "recovered" there was a ton of heat that played on for 4-5 weeks IIRC. I saw a couple of those follow up matches in Augusta when I was stationed at Fort Gordon.

[molson]

It's kind of fun to look at one of the told territory championship Wikipedia pages and see all the shenanigans that went down. It was pretty common for the titles to be vacated because of injuries or guys leaving the company. But I'm sure injuries were less of an issue because nobody cared about concussions, and guys could take a few months off without anybody necessarily noticing.

But here's some highlights of the "notes" portion of the Wikipedia chart listing the NWA Florida Heavyweight champions, all of these incidents resulted in a vacating of the title

-Title vacant when Dusty Rhodes was headed to Japan.
-Title was stripped due to Ladd leaving the territory
-Won by forfeit-Windham injured in auto accident.
-When Graham has been injured.
-Windham went to tour Japan.
-Vacant after Hernandez fired for dressing room fight with Wahoo McDaniel.
-Wins tournament final by forfeit when other semi-final match ends a double disqualification (LOL, I always wanted to see this happen, I don't think even WCW ever did this).
-Humperdink gave him the title.
-Mike Rotunda asked for the title back after Steiner had been champions for several months. Rick refused later NWA stripped Rick Steiner of the title, since he never officially won it and the Title is abandoned by Jim Crockett Promotions while Steiner holds it.
-Title returned after when Mutoh films show Ninja illegally used karate to win the belt.

One thing I do kind of remember from the AWA, and some other stuff I've seen and watched in the years since, the promotions didn't always announce these things. A guy was just never heard from again, and the next week, they'd start a tournament for the vacant title, with no explanation as to why.

This is why I always found this Jerry Lawler clip kind of interesting. I kind of remember all this going down. He had just been stripped of the AWA championship because he refused to defend the title until Verne Gagne paid him (which never happened). Of course that's no fun to explain on TV. So Lawler comes up with this entire kayfabe explanation for the Memphis audience as to why he's not the AWA Champion any more, after it was such a big deal for the Memphis fans that he beat Kerry Von Erich and unified the AWA and WCCW titles and was a real, kind of, "world champion"

Memphis Wrestling: Jerry Lawler renounces and denounces the AWA World Heavyweight Title - YouTube

[RainMaker]

Weird you bring that up because I just watched their Superclash match the other day on YouTube. Von Erich bled like crazy in the match. Really well done. Lawler was such a good heel.

[Toddzilla]

I think we may have seen the last of Ric Flair in a major promotion

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well ... damn.

Naito out of the G1, knee injury
(presumably this is not a work, they wouldn't go that far this early in the tournament)

edit to add:

During his G1 Climax 31 opening match on September 18 in Osaka, Tetsuya Naito suffered an injury to his left knee.

Damage was incurred to his left meniscus and MCL. Naito is unable to compete on the remainder of the G1 Climax tour, and does not currently have a timetable for return. All his remaining tournament matches will be counted as losses via forfeit, with opponents gaining an automatic two points.

[SirFozzie]

Give me this. Lots of this. A Hell of a lots of this.

[Flasch186]

That omega v Daniels match was awesome.

[SirFozzie]

Speaking of Bryan Danielson and awesome matches, if you like strong style heavy impact matches with grappling, go to youtube and watch the Rampage Buy In Bryan Danielson-Minoru Suzuki match.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well ... {insert multiple profanities here}

I won't outright spoil it, but a legit injury abruptly ending the G1 Climax feels like some sort of metaphor for this entire tournament this year.

NJPW right now feeling like some of that cursed shit that WWE went through for a while.

[RainMaker]

That is a terrible way to end things. For a minute I thought it was some weird work. Hopefully not a serious injury and he can be back in a few months.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Looks like ROH is going to do some reimaging of their own. Hopefuly they'l avoid using the 2.0 branding at least.

My guess is that they'll cut the full-time roster down to roughly TV show size, starting with the highest paid employees out first. Get rid of guaranteed deals as much as possible, just work whoever is available around a remaining few.

Frankly, I'm surprised Sinclair has kept putting money into it as long as they have. From their standpoint, the whole thing has been a pretty big failure (since it's TV has been largely irrelevant for them after most affiliates -- even though they owned a lot of the stations -- refused to carry the show anywhere but late night/overnight)


ROH Wrestling on Twitter: "… "

edit to add: Alvarez reporting that
ROH TALENT CONTRACTS WON'T BE RENEWED AMID HIATUS ANNOUNCEMENT
BY BRYAN ROSE | @BR26 | OCT 27, 2021 2:01 PM

Contracted talent signed to Ring of Honor won’t have their contracts renewed as the company looks to go on hiatus and re-evaluate in the first quarter of 2022.

Bryan Alvarez is reporting that contracted talent will not have their contracts renewed and are allowed to work anywhere they want immediately. However, they will finish out remaining ROH dates for 2021.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If Meltzer is correct, this is bigger than even I expected. He says that they've released ALL talent from their contracts (presumably effective after a final TV taping and the PPV).

That would include: Rush, Bandido, Brody King, Silas Young, Mike Bennett, Maria Kanellis, Angelina Love, Mark Briscoe, and Jay Briscoe.

[RainMaker]

Wow. That's a pretty big blow. Not terribly unexpected though as they have fallen quite far. You have AEW doing their thing and it seems like Impact is even investing in talent these days. With NJPW doing US dates, they have to be the 5th promotion in the country. And heck, I've heard more buzz from places like GCW than ROH in the past year.

[RainMaker]

So I'm guessing Page is beating Omega at the PPV? I can't remember a babyface being this over in awhile in any promotion.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I see from Twitter where we've reached the point that Kenny Omega is wrestling Alan Angels.

Yeah, I suddenly have a crystal clear understanding of just how far Omega has fallen and why his peak seems to me like it was a million years ago.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I see from Twitter where we've reached the point that Kenny Omega is wrestling Alan Angels.

Yeah, I suddenly have a crystal clear understanding of just how far Omega has fallen and why his peak seems to me like it was a million years ago.

What do you consider to be his peak?

Obviously the Okada matches a few years back were total classics, but he's been on fire in AEW as well. Once he started his singles run after his tag team storyline, he's put on a ton of great matches, and has been a sell not only in AEW, but so many of the other feds that they have been tied with.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

What do you consider to be his peak?

Somewhere in 2017 most likely.

but he's been on fire in AEW as well.

Frankly, most of what's been done there falls flat with me for simply being beneath him (correction: not "him", beneath the supposed "best wrestler in the world today" whomever that happens to be)

He's also spent far too much time there -- aside from the utterly absurd tour of every 2nd/3rd tier promotion in the country -- nearly invisible (tho I still can't swear that there were medical reasons for at least some of that, tho I suspect it's more mental)

He's gone from someone I'd say (and DID say) was clearly either #1 or #2 in the world for a good 2 year stretch or longer to someone that's virtually an afterthought to me. And maybe even barely an afterthought.

And for those who may not be familiar with Alan Angels, let me clarify something: I'm not purely hating on the guy. I've seen him numerous times, he was trained in Atlanta, worked around the scene in Georgia pretty regularly. He's serviceable at worst, but the ceiling is pretty low too.

What punched me in the face about this particular match and really prompted my comment was this: Omega has gone from working at the highest level against the best in the world to working a guy who wasn't even a consistent main eventer on C level indy shows, and couldn't draw flies. And who STILL wouldn't be a consistent main eventer nor be able to draw flies.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Somewhere in 2017 most likely.

Frankly, most of what's been done there falls flat with me for simply being beneath him (correction: not "him", beneath the supposed "best wrestler in the world today" whomever that happens to be)

He's also spent far too much time there -- aside from the utterly absurd tour of every 2nd/3rd tier promotion in the country -- nearly invisible (tho I still can't swear that there were medical reasons for at least some of that, tho I suspect it's more mental)

He's gone from someone I'd say (and DID say) was clearly either #1 or #2 in the world for a good 2 year stretch or longer to someone that's virtually an afterthought to me. And maybe even barely an afterthought.

And for those who may not be familiar with Alan Angels, let me clarify something: I'm not purely hating on the guy. I've seen him numerous times, he was trained in Atlanta, worked around the scene in Georgia pretty regularly. He's serviceable at worst, but the ceiling is pretty low too.

What punched me in the face about this particular match and really prompted my comment was this: Omega has gone from working at the highest level against the best in the world to working a guy who wasn't even a consistent main eventer on C level indy shows, and couldn't draw flies. And who STILL wouldn't be a consistent main eventer nor be able to draw flies.

I feel like this is more about your anti-AEW stance than anything about Kenny Omega. If you've watched Kenny in the past 1.5 years, he's been awesome. His tag team storyline with Adam Page was really entertaining. They had what was arguably one of the best tag team matches of all time against the Young Bucks.

As a touring champion, he's fought all kinds of guys that aren't in the main event, and elevated them. He's not losing to Alan Angels, and I haven't seen that match yet, but I'm sure he made Angels look great.

This year my favorite match of his was against Ray Fenix. It was mind blowing. It's my favorite match of 2021 so far.

And they put him into a 30 minute draw against Bryan Danielson, to give the world a sneak peak of what Danielson can do when you take McMahon's reigns off him.

He won the PWI 500 this year for the 2nd time in his career.

And as the champion of AEW, he is drawing live show numbers that are bigger than WWE is. Not exclusively due to him, but as the champ and the focal point, you always get some of the credit or some of the blame.

So yeah, Omega is still awesome.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Mota

I feel like this is more about your anti-AEW stance than anything about Kenny Omega. If you've watched Kenny in the past 1.5 years, he's been awesome. His tag team storyline with Adam Page was really entertaining. They had what was arguably one of the best tag team matches of all time against the Young Bucks.

As a touring champion, he's fought all kinds of guys that aren't in the main event, and elevated them. He's not losing to Alan Angels, and I haven't seen that match yet, but I'm sure he made Angels look great.

This year my favorite match of his was against Ray Fenix. It was mind blowing. It's my favorite match of 2021 so far.

And they put him into a 30 minute draw against Bryan Danielson, to give the world a sneak peak of what Danielson can do when you take McMahon's reigns off him.

He won the PWI 500 this year for the 2nd time in his career.

And as the champion of AEW, he is drawing live show numbers that are bigger than WWE is. Not exclusively due to him, but as the champ and the focal point, you always get some of the credit or some of the blame.

So yeah, Omega is still awesome.

I also don't think they presented the Omega/Angels match last night as anything other than a glorified squash, so it's not like anyone was pretending this was some kind of "contenders challenge" bullshit.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

I feel like this is more about your anti-AEW stance than anything about Kenny Omega.

I can assure you that I'm perfectly capable of ripping AEW without attaching any particular wrestler to it. This is about my disappointment with Omega's output, plain & simple.

The Page storyline had to be paid off (or still needs to be paid off) but that wasn't new or groundbreaking to anyone that knew the backstory already. But for my KO criticism, I don't fault him for the lack of payoff, that seems to rest with Page.

What I've learned is that without compelling stories, his work suffers. Not his workrate, just the overall impression of the work. There needs to be something that actually matters for his matches to stand out. (Contrast with, say, several of the luchas that come to mind who can be don't-miss caliber almost at random). He's still better than a whole bunch of people, but he doesn't belong in the best of the best conversation in quite a while now.

He won the PWI 500 this year for the 2nd time in his career.

Which was the latest in a steady string of bewildering moves by PWI that really discredit their publication (tho not nearly as absurd as several others they've made recently)

[RainMaker]

I haven't been impressed by his run the past year or so. A belt collector gimmick can work, but they didn't really pay it off or utilize those other titles much. What was the point of the whole Impact thing in the end?

And outside of that, he's been booked as a run-of-the-mill chickenshit heel. Similar to what you find out of EVERY SINGLE HEEL in WWE.

He can still put out great matches (although they have become predictable). But I find him incredibly boring these days. Even this multi-year payoff with Hangman is kind of falling flat for me.

[RainMaker]

In other news, we may have found out why Moxley was looking so bloated lately. Hope things go well for him because when he is on, he is a really fun wrestler.

Bit off topic but I was on the same plane as him years ago. Was right after he got called up. Surprised at how big he was in person.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

I also don't think they presented the Omega/Angels match last night as anything other than a glorified squash, so it's not like anyone was pretending this was some kind of "contenders challenge" bullshit.

Agree. I thought it was just an opportunity for Omega to get a win, do some heelish stuff after the match, and then allow Hangman to make a save and have a one-on-one face-off. Here's the end of the match.

Streamja - Simple video sharing

[JonInMiddleGA]

from FFO

KEITH LEE, NIA JAX, EVA MARIE, B-FAB PART OF 18 WWE RELEASES
BY ETHAN RENNER | @ETHANRENNER | NOV 4, 2021 4:41 PM

Shortly after WWE's quarterly investors call wrapped, the company began making cuts to their talent roster, citing "budget cuts" as the reason.

From the main WWE roster, Keith Lee, Mia Yim, Nia Jax, Karrion Kross Lince Dorado, Gran Metalik, Harry Smith, and B-Fab have been released.

From the NXT roster, Scarlett, Ember Moon, Franky Monet, Jessi Kamea, Katrina Cortez, Jeet Rama, Oney Lorcan, Trey Baxter and Zayda Ramier have been let go.

[SirFozzie]

"Budget cuts" on a day that they up their profit projection for a year where they half didn't have fans due to the pandemic to $300 million.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

In other news, we may have found out why Moxley was looking so bloated lately. Hope things go well for him because when he is on, he is a really fun wrestler.

Bit off topic but I was on the same plane as him years ago. Was right after he got called up. Surprised at how big he was in person.

We were at a Dragon Gate USA show that he was on, we were in line to get into the show, and all the wrestlers had to walk past us to get into the building. Moxley was very polite, said "excuse me" to my son as we shuffled to the side a bit to let him in. He was definitely a big dude. I think that was the match where he sliced his nipple on the guard rail during a match.

The one that really surprised me was Drew McIntyre. That guy is MASSIVE. He obviously looks big on TV, but he looked superhuman in person. Super tall, and jacked.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

"Budget cuts" on a day that they up their profit projection for a year where they half didn't have fans due to the pandemic to $300 million.

They're like other sports at this point, they're made for TV and the live events are pretty irrelevant.

[RainMaker]

They did have a massive roster at one point. Still, some of those names I don't get.

Keith Lee seems hard to miss on. I know he's not great on the mic but a big guy who can move like that?

Kross isn't great in the ring but I thought his act with Scarlett in old NXT was pretty good.

New NXT is pretty bad. Only thing going for it is Ciampa and Steiners' kid who has the worst ring name I can remember.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

They did have a massive roster at one point. Still, some of those names I don't get.

Keith Lee seems hard to miss on. I know he's not great on the mic but a big guy who can move like that?

Kross isn't great in the ring but I thought his act with Scarlett in old NXT was pretty good.

New NXT is pretty bad. Only thing going for it is Ciampa and Steiners' kid who has the worst ring name I can remember.

Let's start with a caveat: today's followup reports that suggest that vax status was involved in many of yesterday's release decision might (or might not) affect how the moves are assessed

Beyond that, Lee is an odd case I think. I've previously compared him to (of all things) Viking Raiders aka War Machine. Different level obviously but similar to me in this respect: capable of unexpected physical feats but once you've seen that and there's no surprise factor then it's less shiny. I've seen Lee have some good matches, but most of those were in Evolve 4 years ago. His highest rated work, starwise, seems to have been in PWG just before that. And many of the opponents in those matches ended up in NXT but only Riddle has made a successful transition to the main roster IIRC (I might be overlooking somebody)

In short, Lee works best in particular types of matches and against particular types of opponents, and that's not really what the WWE does on their main roster. Whether that's good or bad isn't relevant here, the fact that they simply ... don't ... is what matters when considering the cuts they make.

Plus, he turns 37 next week, and the physical changes from early 30s to late 30s aren't always kind.

And with the rebranding of NXT, I'm not sure many late 30s and beyond guys are going to be around much longer for anything other than to put people over. My description of it elsewhere yesterday was that they're going to be gatekeepers mostly and several past/present/future releases haven't been with the company long enough to really be established for that role.

------------

Kross feels like an even rarer case to me: someone whose valet somehow adds rather than distracts/detracts. I don't know that I can even explain why I feel that way, but that's pretty much always been my take on that pairing. For whatever reason, they chose to separate them, and that was pretty much it for Kross. Again, 36 years old, again not in the company long enough to play gatekeeper.

----------------

I go back to something I said in my discussion with the kid last night: they may not be right in their decision making process but I'm getting the feeling I at least understand what logic -- however flawed -- they're using.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Kross feels like an even rarer case to me: someone whose valet somehow adds rather than distracts/detracts. I don't know that I can even explain why I feel that way, but that's pretty much always been my take on that pairing. For whatever reason, they chose to separate them, and that was pretty much it for Kross. Again, 36 years old, again not in the company long enough to play gatekeeper.

I can explain it. Scarlett is insanely hot as that character. Have to go back to Sunny to think of a valet who was that hot in a role in my opinion.

All the other stuff makes sense. Didn't know Lee was that old. But it's still weird that he got a mega push like 2 years ago and then they just stopped.

Maybe that's what's so confusing. I get the people who aren't on TV or who were never seen as stars. But Kross had a massive push like a year ago. Lee 2 years ago.

Nia Jax getting cut is LONG overdue. Way too dangerous in the ring. I understand a woman that size isn't easy to find, but she needed some work in developmental and had no business putting good talent at risk.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I can explain it. Scarlett is insanely hot as that character. Have to go back to Sunny to think of a valet who was that hot in a role in my opinion.

I didn't even necessarily think of her as being all that hot tbh .. I mean, she could show up with a box of Saltines & I'd not complain ... but she somehow just worked.

All the other stuff makes sense. Didn't know Lee was that old. But it's still weird that he got a mega push like 2 years ago and then they just stopped.

Maybe that's what's so confusing. I get the people who aren't on TV or who were never seen as stars. But Kross had a massive push like a year ago. Lee 2 years ago.

Goes to another of my sneaking suspicions: they've given up on finding people who can write (meeaning angles, not promos) for certain people. Both guys had the runs you mentioned, then they just sorta stopped (tho Lee was likely health related). I feel like they've just given up on finding a writing staff that can keep some people relevant and are just going to go with "okay, you know how to write for A but not for B? Fine, we'll keep A and let B go"

[RainMaker]

Full Gear was a really great show and that's from someone who doesn't watch much wrestling these days. Can't say enough about how good MJF is. Not sure if he planned out the finish of the match, but that callback was incredible.

For those who don't follow, MJF told Darby Allin during a promo months ago he'd beat him with a side headlock takedown. Well in their match, that's how he beat him (well after punching him with a diamond ring on). Just a perfect heel.

[BYU 14]

MJF is an incredible talent, especially for his age.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

For those who don't follow, MJF told Darby Allin during a promo months ago he'd beat him with a side headlock takedown. Well in their match, that's how he beat him (well after punching him with a diamond ring on). Just a perfect heel.

MJF and Jay White are pretty much as good as heels get in 2021. Both are spectacular on the mic (though MJF far ahead in consistent excellence) transcending their ring work.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

MJF and Jay White are pretty much as good as heels get in 2021. Both are spectacular on the mic (though MJF far ahead in consistent excellence) transcending their ring work.

I don't know where he falls but Eddie Kingston is terrific too.