Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[RainMaker]

Hate to keep gushing on MJF but even his interviews are great. I'm pretty sure he's trolling here, but the fact you can't be totally sure is what is so good. Even the subtle Bruce Pritchard nod. And that he wears the ring during the interview.

MJF gives his thoughts on NXT 2.0

- via Ariel Helwani podcast pic.twitter.com/eoa0rJV764

— Sean Slate (@slate_s42) March 24, 2022

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

anyone remember "Magnum" Scott Hall?

Yeah, from AWA, didn't even realize at first that he was the Diamond Stud later on because his look changed so much.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Hate to keep gushing on MJF but even his interviews are great. I'm pretty sure he's trolling here, but the fact you can't be totally sure is what is so good. Even the subtle Bruce Pritchard nod. And that he wears the ring during the interview.

MJF gives his thoughts on NXT 2.0

- via Ariel Helwani podcast pic.twitter.com/eoa0rJV764

— Sean Slate (@slate_s42) March 24, 2022

I just love how is is waxing poetic on the "young guys" like a grizzled veteran having just turned 26 LOL

[miami_fan]

My son and I have watched both nights of Wrestlemania. Last night, he watched and enjoyed every minute. His phone remained in his room the entire night. Tonight, he has spent the last 90 minutes going back and forth between the tv and his phone. He spent more time looking at his phone than the main event. Needless to say, Wrestlemania Sunday was a disappointment.

[jbergey22]

Strong Wrestlemania this year. Could have done without Vince McMahon showing off his in ring skills and worrying that he was going to break. Pat McAfee sure was over.

[molson]

I didn't have time to sit and watch it live this weekend, but there were some legendary gifs generated last night. Three great and/or horrific stunner sells, the Jackass shenanigan, and this:

😂 Pat McAfee Still Drinking Beer After Getting A Stunner | Wrestlemania 38 - YouTube

[RainMaker]

I didn't watch the whole thing but what I did see was pretty good. Night 1 seemed considerably better though. I did like AJ and Edge. Also the Zayn-Knoxville match was surprisingly fun like an old Attitude Era hardcore match.

The main event was kind of a stinker for all the build. And the McMahon stuff went on way too long. But it wasn't horrendous or anything.

[RainMaker]

How I feel about Pittsburg. pic.twitter.com/9FY0Gy4ofK

— Maxwell Jacob Friedman™️ (@The_MJF) April 20, 2022

After that wrestler disrespected the Franco statue, the Pgh Airport is done playin games pic.twitter.com/MizMjcuitN

— Bill Crawford (@dveBillCrawford) April 27, 2022

[JonInMiddleGA]

We're still about 1-2 shows behind but, thus far, the international contingent in BoSJ have been real highlights.

Francesco Akira, Alex Zayne, TJ Perkins, Titan, all doing good to great work.
Okay, Clark Connors not so much maybe.

But the imports have definitely reinvigorated the tournament and really been most of the must see stuff so far.

[RainMaker]

That Ace Austin guy from I think Impact is really good.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That Ace Austin guy from I think Impact is really good.

Dammit, I did NOT omit him on purpose. My bad. He's more than held his own for sure.

And I didn't mention Eagles or El P simply because I expect both of them to be damned good on a regular basis.

And in that same vein, I did not omit Lindaman for any reason other than he's based in Japan. He's been another absolute standout so far, with the added bonus one of the most natural Japanese performers on the mic I've seen in quite a while. THAT is a future IWGP Jr champion afaic.

-----

Currently watching the first of the 10 match shows (almost two behind but oh well). A great little moment just now, El Phantasmo does a backflip off the turnbuckle to the outside onto Douiki. What caught my eye? El P didn't look back, not even a glance. He had complete confidence that Douki would be where he should be (or simply didn't give a damn, which IS a possibility). I just thought that told me something about what workers think of Douki.

And the ending of that match turns out to be a gem, calling back to something that happened in the 1994 BoSJ. That shit is why I enjoy NJPW more than anything in the business. And why Kevin Kelly stands alone atop the current generation of announcers for me.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Idle thought as we try to catch up before Thursday's BoSJ final

Watching the Robbie Eagles - El Phantasmo main event and certainly have nothing but good to say about it. 2 great athletes, a good backstory, main event worthy on any night.

Buuuuut ... I wonder how much of it would translate to a first-time viewer. One that didn't know the backstory, one that didn't see how the two became such bitter rivals?

It's one of the things that I feel like makes NJPW have such a high bar for fan entry. One of the things that makes it work IS the backstories, the callbacks, the history. I'm not sure the casual fan -- or maybe better to even say the mainstream fan, one that watches maybe several dozen shows a year (Raw, Smackdown, whatever) -- can really get the difference between a good match and a great one, not without knowing the story that elevates much of the best of New Japan.

It's a dilemma that I'm not sure has a solution. I know the time investment that being a North American fan of NJPW turns into. And probably the hardest part is all the work that getting into the flow of it requires.

edit to add: Hell, the postmatch "press conferences" add a LOT to every show. If you don't watch those, you're REALLY cheating yourself out of a lot. That's where most of the real character development takes place in NJPW. But for something like BoSJ, that's 20 interviews and probably an extra thirty minutes worth of time investment.

[RainMaker]

This MJF promo, holy shit.

[JonInMiddleGA]

A perfect promo given the situation.

Put the title on a notorious pipebomber, the response is a pipebomb promo.

Turning Punk into the modern corporate Austin/Taker/Rock is pretty ABC stuff if you think about how wrestling recycles storylines.

And the beauty of it all is that MJF isn't wrong in the promo (aside from the "hey buddy, you signed the contract" aspect)

[RainMaker]

It was beeped on TBS. What did he say at the end?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It was beeped on TBS. What did he say at the end?

The gist was "I want you to fire me, you fucking mark"

[BYU 14]

Watched Dynamite while I did cardio today, and 2nd the holy shit on the MJF promo. Somewhere Brian Pillman is smiling.

Here is the last few minutes uncensored if you didn't watch the broadcast

[RainMaker]

Can't remember a promo like that on TV with that much vitriol or passion. The Punk one comes to mind, but it was still pretty calm in comparison.

It'll be interesting to see where it goes. The one that makes the most sense is recycling the Punk/Cena feud with Punk now playing the role of Cena. AEW has been willing to slow build something which I think would be necessary for something like this.

One thing I am rooting against is Tony becoming an on-screen figure and just re-hashing the old authority figure storyline. Vince and Austin pulled it off to perfection, but everyone else seems to fail. It's just gotten boring to me.

[RainMaker]

And the best part of the promo is that just like Punk's pipebomb, there's a ton of truth in it. Tony is a mark. He is splashing tons of money to WWE guys while not paying the other folks who have been drawing. The fans spent all weekend trashing him and then cheered when he arrived on Dynamite.

[JonInMiddleGA]

BoSJ final night was ... eventful.

Controversial booking for the main.
1 heel turn/faction joining, 2 returns from injuries.

If anybody decides to give it a watch, it's definitely a faster paced show than the past three weeks have been. The first half (the undercard tags, etc) were done in less than an hour.

The foreign talent was the highlight of the tourney for me for sure.

It really exposes an underdiscussed issue that I think NJPW is facing, it's been a while since they've homegrown a first rate junior. They seem to be placing their bets on Wato and Yoh, both of which were the least interesting parts of the whole tournament. I fear they see Yoh -- at age33-- as being their replacement for the teen idol that Ibushi has been but I don't see that working for any broader audience.

Seems to me that a dojo focus on finding some juniors might be a good idea, otherwise they're gonna have to buy themselves a few (Pay Lindaman what you have to, he's the most natural native speaking promo they've had in a long time)

[SirFozzie]

Six months ago, Cody Rhodes volunteered to take the brunt of a back-first top rope bump through a flaming table.

And that wasn't half as stupid as going out tonight and wrestling. Not because of spots, but because of geezus chriminey Cody, WHY??????

(he had a torn pec, is facing the rest of 2022 off, probably, but still went out and did crazy ass shit)

[RainMaker]

He's a Rhodes and was main eventing a big show. I would have been surprised if he didn't gut it out. Major props to Rollins too who is just flat out incredible (shit gimmick aside).

He'll be out for a while but should be the biggest babyface in the company when he comes back by a country mile. Not quite a Mick Foley moment in HIAC, but not far off. Would be shocked if he isn't the one to take the belt off Roman at Wrestlemania.

[RainMaker]

Then we have AEW who will have an interim/vacated title which absolutely sucks. I'm guessing their ratings told them that Punk was the right choice but he looked real old in that title match and old on Dynamite this week.

They have a far better product than WWE these days but they have their WCW/TNA moments.

[BYU 14]

Hopefully they are smart and put the belt on Danielson, let him progress again as a heel and it sets up a dream match when Punk gets back. But to your point, Punk is definitely nowhere near where he was when he left wrestling.

I still don't know if the MJF drama is a work. I can see it as such with some of the veterans they have in the back possibly pushing it, but I have no confidence that Tony Khan is savvy enough to run with it.

[RainMaker]

I would think Tony Khan is not dumb enough to give a live mic to a talent on the outs like MFJ. But maybe I'm giving him too much credit.

Tend to agree with the Cornette stance on this. Tremendous promo that makes MJF look like a star. But turning your company heel is never good. Burying the roster is not good either. And this completely crushes Wardlow who you just spent 2+ years building up.

The only one who got over is MJF which I would not do unless I had him locked up for a long ass time.

[molson]

Rhodes actually seems like a better fit in WWE. He maybe needs an editor, a structure, where he can just be a big-time main event talent without all the weird stuff.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I would think Tony Khan is not dumb enough to give a live mic to a talent on the outs like MFJ. But maybe I'm giving him too much credit..

Then you also know Cornette's opinion on this

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Then you also know Cornette's opinion on this

For as many things as Jim and I don't agree on, boy oh boy do we match on both MJF and TK.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Six months ago, Cody Rhodes volunteered to take the brunt of a back-first top rope bump through a flaming table.

And that wasn't half as stupid as going out tonight and wrestling. Not because of spots, but because of geezus chriminey Cody, WHY??????

(he had a torn pec, is facing the rest of 2022 off, probably, but still went out and did crazy ass shit)

He is Virgil Riley Runnels Jr.'s son. It is what he is supposed to do.

[JonInMiddleGA]

G1 Climax field revealed tonight during Dominion.

I'm ... pretty meh.

4 blocks of 7, block winners advance to semi-finals on 8/17, finals on 8/18

I'll just lazily copy & paste somebody's Twitter list, I'll underline the outsiders just to make 'em jump out for you

Okada Tanahashi Naito Goto Tama Tonga Shingo Chase Fale Yujiro EVIL Tom Lawlor Juice JONAH YOSHI-HASHI Yano Ishii Cobb O-Khan Henare Ospreay
SANADA Jay KENTA ELP Taichi ZSJ Lance Archer Finlay

Lots of paint-drying caliber fatasses for a G1.

I'm pretty unimpressed and really not motivated about this.

Quite happy about ELP getting added

edit to add:
For our math fans, I'll just steal from Twitter to explain how larger is actually smaller
luchablog ( @luchablog)
4 blocks of 7 is 84 matches (+2 semifinals and 1 final)
2 blocks of 10 is 90 matches (+1 final)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Love him or hate him, a performance like the one tonight by Jay White makes it tough not to breathe with The Switchblade.

Damned good work, damned good.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Love him or hate him, a performance like the one tonight by Jay White makes it tough not to breathe with The Switchblade.

Damned good work, damned good.

I was lucky enough to see him on excursion several years ago, wrestling in Smash Wrestling in Toronto. No idea he'd be this big, but he was really good even then.

They also had Kaito Kiyomiya who became the GHC Champion, and I didn't see that kind of potential at all from him, he was much more green for sure on excursion.

[Toddzilla]

Jeff Hardy was arrested this morning. Driving with a suspended license, DUI alcohol/drugs, violations of driving restrictions.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Jeff Hardy was arrested this morning. Driving with a suspended license, DUI alcohol/drugs, violations of driving restrictions.

He probably needs to just step away. His matches with AEW have been scary to say the least. He is a shell of his former self and at this point, with some of the sloppy talent they have on that roster he is playing with his long term health.

[Toddzilla]

Per Marc Raimondi of ESPN, Jeff Hardy's two blood alcohol tests were 0.294 and 0.291 - 3.7 times legal limit.

[RainMaker]

I know some people said he's just getting older and sloppier, but he looked really off at Double or Nothing. Like they had to bring someone out to help him with his boot in the middle of the match. Then he ran off into the crowd after.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Love him or hate him, a performance like the one tonight by Jay White makes it tough not to breathe with The Switchblade.

Damned good work, damned good.

Great match although felt the finish was a little underwhelming.

I feel like Jay White is one of the more underrated promos in the industry. Very direct and pointed with everything he says. A style that is pretty unique today. Not even sure what I could compare it to.

Little surprised they went with White. I thought the Forbidden Door PPV would be a little more unique with Okada who feels more NJPW than White. Hopefully they find a match for him and some others at the PPV.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Great match although felt the finish was a little underwhelming.

I feel like Jay White is one of the more underrated promos in the industry. Very direct and pointed with everything he says. A style that is pretty unique today. Not even sure what I could compare it to.

Little surprised they went with White. I thought the Forbidden Door PPV would be a little more unique with Okada who feels more NJPW than White. Hopefully they find a match for him and some others at the PPV.

I have my doubts about Okada wanting to make the trip over right now. His first child is due in August.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I know some people said he's just getting older and sloppier, but he looked really off at Double or Nothing. Like they had to bring someone out to help him with his boot in the middle of the match. Then he ran off into the crowd after.

He apparently sustained a concussion in that match, which would account for much of his performance and erratic behavior afterwards, but honestly, if I didn't know who he was my opinion would be he has no business on TV.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I have my doubts about Okada wanting to make the trip over right now. His first child is due in August.

This would be disappointing. You need Pkada for Forbidden Door. Like WWE needed Goldberg for the Invasion.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

This would be disappointing. You need Pkada for Forbidden Door. Like WWE needed Goldberg for the Invasion.

Why should he bother? We just got signals that it'll be Pockets vs Ospreay.

The only way Orange Cassidy should be that close to Ospreay is if he bought a ticket for a meet n' greet.

If they'll do that, why would anyone be dumb enough to get involved with the money mark and his booking? This is all more than a little idiotic on NJPW's part afaic.

[miami_fan]

Is WWE Board shorthand for Linda or Stephanie?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Why should he bother? We just got signals that it'll be Pockets vs Ospreay.

The only way Orange Cassidy should be that close to Ospreay is if he bought a ticket for a meet n' greet.

If they'll do that, why would anyone be dumb enough to get involved with the money mark and his booking? This is all more than a little idiotic on NJPW's part afaic.

I have no clue how Pocket's is not a jobber at this point. Khan is an idiot continuing to book him so strongly, while he jobs Samoa Joe to the human pipe cleaner and a monster like Lance Archer to virtually anybody with a pulse.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I have no clue how Pocket's is not a jobber at this point. Khan is an idiot continuing to book him so strongly, while he jobs Samoa Joe to the human pipe cleaner and a monster like Lance Archer to virtually anybody with a pulse.

That's what happens when the male Dixie Carter gets the book.

[RainMaker]

I actually don't mind OC in a lower card comedy role. Kind of like how Santino was booked in WWE. But I did burst out laughing when I realized they were going to have Ospreay, one of the best wrestlers on the planet, fight him at Forbidden Door.

Shit, I'd rather them just have Dax get another shot at Ospreay. That match wasn't half bad.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Why should he bother? We just got signals that it'll be Pockets vs Ospreay.

The only way Orange Cassidy should be that close to Ospreay is if he bought a ticket for a meet n' greet.

If they'll do that, why would anyone be dumb enough to get involved with the money mark and his booking? This is all more than a little idiotic on NJPW's part afaic.

Unless there is a fat check attached, I don't get what NJPW is getting out of this deal.

If it's to bring attention to talent here, it's not working. I know who Ospreay and Jay White are. But I have no clue who anyone in Ospreay's stable is. And while I know who Tanahashi is and have seen matches, I don't really know a ton about his history.

Just feels like the event isn't made for me, which is fine. And that's kind of a problem with AEW in general. I feel like half the roster is people I don't know much, if anything about. When they brought in Danhausen, I legitimately didn't know he was a wrestler until he wrestled a match.

I don't need the product dumbed down to WWE levels, but let me in on who some of these people are if you want me to care.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Is WWE Board shorthand for Linda or Stephanie?

So what are the odds that leak came from Steph or Hunter? Steph was sort of forced out it seems and then a couple of weeks ago there is an article citing WWE sources trashing her performance.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Unless there is a fat check attached, I don't get what NJPW is getting out of this deal.

If it's to bring attention to talent here, it's not working. I know who Ospreay and Jay White are. But I have no clue who anyone in Ospreay's stable is. And while I know who Tanahashi is and have seen matches, I don't really know a ton about his history.

Just feels like the event isn't made for me, which is fine. And that's kind of a problem with AEW in general. I feel like half the roster is people I don't know much, if anything about. When they brought in Danhausen, I legitimately didn't know he was a wrestler until he wrestled a match.

If you don't follow the indies closely AND aren't a daily consumer of the IWC, then yeah it's gonna be tough.

As for the stable, here's the rundown on who and when they joined

Aaron Henare April 4, 2021
Francesco Akira April 9, 2022
Great-O-Khan * October 16, 2020
Jeff Cobb November 15, 2020
Kyle Fletcher September 19, 2021
Mark Davis September 19, 2021
T.J. Perkins September 26, 2021
Will Ospreay *L October 16, 2020

So you've got "Khan on the Cobb", likely future IWGP Tag Champs and possibly ROH Tag champs as well. O-Khan might be the hottest young guy in NJPW for the past year or so, having overcome an incredibly stupid introduction and gimmick, both by having a surprising amount of versatility in the ring and being one of the best speakers -- in a "speaks intelligently" sense -- in the company.

Fletcher & Davis aka Aussie Open, best known for their work with RevPro. Been in/out of NJPW since 2018.

Henare, former Young Lion out of New Zealand. Missed most of 2018 with an achilles injury. Turned heel and joined UE about a year ago.

TJP is, pretty much, TJP. The former Puma gives them a cruiserweight and a veteran presence

Akira is the newest member, had a solid BoSJ. REALLY young, Italian, promising though.

I don't need the product dumbed down to WWE levels, but let me in on who some of these people are if you want me to care.

Other than Excalibur, they don't have anyone who can explain it. (okay, Regal could but he isn't on commentary that much)

JR didn't seem to know the name of Ospreay's finisher (based on the clip I saw), resorting to "WHAT A SHOT"

And Skeevone is just drawing a paycheck

[RainMaker]

Thanks for the breakdown. Didn't know the stable was that big.

Not sure if you're caught up or not but

Spoiler

didn't O-Khan and Cobb just win the tag titles?

Excalibur did seem to be the only one willing to tell me who these people were. Schiavone didn't seem to care and JR was just blurting out stuff that made no sense. I don't think it would hurt for them to put together a 2-3 minute video package with the history of the group and why they matter. I think all they said was Ospreay is a 2-time IWGP champ on the chyron.

Then again, they're pairing Ospreay with OC, so maybe they just don't give a shit.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Thanks for the breakdown. Didn't know the stable was that big.

Not sure if you're caught up or not but

Spoiler

didn't O-Khan and Cobb just win the tag titles?

Yeah, that was last week, my brain just wasn't sure if I was remembering correctly or not (I watched that at, what, 4a?)