Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Then again, they're pairing Ospreay with OC, so maybe they just don't give a shit.

Was watching Dynamite while I did cardio at lunch, that made me cringe, you just put Ospreay over one of your best workers, then pockets saunters down to get into a stare down with him. WTF, pockets must have some pretty compromising photographs, then the train wreck with Jericho interrupting Moxley and Tanahashi....

It's like Tony doesn't really want to succeed at too high a level. If you are going to be a mark and run a wrestling company, do it like Corgan. It's just too bad he doesn't have the endless resources Khan does.

[Toddzilla]

So....anything going on?

[RainMaker]

Story is that it was supposed to be Andrade facing Ospreay at Forbidden Door but NJPW blocked it because of their issues with AAA.

[Toddzilla]

Ah, I KNEW there was a huge story I missed

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

So....anything going on?

I did not have sex with Vince McMahon and he did not pay me to say that.

[dubb93]

I mean, there is zero chance he actually steps away right? This has been his entire life.

[PilotMan]

Manager Vince...it'll all be part of a work somehow.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Could we PLEASE just keep Kevin, Taz, and Excalibur on commentary all night?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Could we PLEASE just keep Kevin, Taz, and Excalibur on commentary all night?

Kevin is better than anyone working in the states.

[BYU 14]

Let's see how Pocket's extortion policy holds up now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Kevin is better than anyone working in the states.

It's crazy to think that we're at a point where he's head & shoulders above anybody else at the job. That was not always the case, it's a credit to his desire to get better and to be fair, to about finding an opportunity that was perfect for him.

Listening to the fossils is pretty much torture at this point.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Let's see how Pocket's extortion policy holds up now.

There is a wrestling God

[JonInMiddleGA]

What a production bungle to cutaway from the ring after the surprise post-match save.

[RainMaker]

Was Cole legit knocked out at the end?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Was Cole legit knocked out at the end?

Unclear still whether he was out OR if he was supposed to get out of the pin but his torn labrum shoulder finally gave up on him.

Also still a fair bit of question whether Okada got hurt in that sequence as well

[JonInMiddleGA]

And I'm pretty sure Moxley didn't plan on getting THIS much color

[JonInMiddleGA]

In case anybody wonders how I even ended up buying this PPV, it's actually kinda simple.

Our plan had been to drive toward Atlanta about 45 mins or so and attend a lucha show (there's probably 4-6 pretty good shows with talent from Mexico & ex-WWE guys here each year). Buuuuut $60/ticket seemed a bit much* for a card that only had 4 guys we'd ever heard of.

Figured it was reasonable to repurpose our planned wrestling expenditure into this event instead.

* not worth that price to us, but it sold out the $125 and $95 seats and sold the rest pretty well, so it wasn't "overpriced" in that sense at all.

[RainMaker]

Good show if you just count thr in ring stuff. Biggest buzzkill was how predictable it was. But I guess that will always be the case with cross promotional shows.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Unclear still whether he was out OR if he was supposed to get out of the pin but his torn labrum shoulder finally gave up on him.

Also still a fair bit of question whether Okada got hurt in that sequence as well

Alvarez tweeted it's a concussion. Makes sense. Seems like his body was trying to finish that match but his brain just wasn't having it. Wouldn't be surprised to hear he didn't remember those last few moments.

Was really nice seeing Shibata. I don't know what his status is in the business but being able to do what he did tonight is still petty awesome.

[SirFozzie]

I don't get TNT and TBS on Fubo, so I had to rely on other means to get the show, and that means I had to wait till the card was over. I may update my thoughts on the rest of the card later, but here's my running thoughts on Blood and Guts.

Blood and Guts Thoughts:

The JAS with the Magic Mike entrance!

Kingston's Crew are appropriately amped for this FIGHT. Claudio is hype. Wheeler Yuta looks like he is completely methed up for the match. WIIIIIILLLD THING! Moxley with the Triple H water spit! Twice! Regal officially retires once and for all by putting over how much damage Claudio and Mox did him. Regal tries to recruit Stone Cold to AEW...

Claudio is going to be larger then so many opponents in AEW which is going to be huge for his push. Sammy is such a great smaller guy for Claudio to show off. Poor Sammy is such a great heel. Never should turn face. Regal is so good at putting over people that he's supposed to hate in his commentary.

REGAL WITH THE HEENAN REFERENCE! "Lose if you have to, win if you can, but always cheat". I nominate Yuta as the new Prince of German Suplexes. So many great germans. Pops it purposefully and with menace.

So many awkward bumps with the distance between rings and cage. They really need to work on that for future matches.

SPINNING SPRINGBOARD UPPERCUT. I missed Claudio so much.

Regal loves the fight, you can hear it.

Moxley in early, and let the NASTINESS commence.

We're only halfway in and we have people getting forked up already. They need a pencil to honor the original sheik while they're at it, just for weapon bingo. And we have Color! Menard with the greatest lights are on but no one's home bloody look. Triple Hammer Elbows. Parker is a nine hundred percent great chickenshit heel before Claudio catches him and they get to play Parker Punishment Pinball.

Taz gets to use the word plethora! Someone gave him a word of the day calendar for christmas, didn't they?

Taz and Regal, being known as supreme ass-kickers, are loving this and putting it over so much.

And never mind Annie Lenox's Walking on Broken Glass, Jon Moxley's Piledriver on Broken Glass is the song of violence for the 2020's

and here's the thing about Blood and Guts compared to NXT WarGames. They are willing to go that extra mile in just sheer "We have so much hate that we're going to to things that would get us years in prison, and you can't stop us". And they don't spend a lot of useless time facing off when there's fighting to be done.

Did that Piledriver on glass happen during PiP (I got this... um. elsewhere). Yup. I didn't think they'd show the replay when they came back.

Oh my god that pop up European from Claudio. You just hang in mid air, looking down at Claudio, and look down, and know what's about to hit you at nine billion miles an hour. So good. Eddie has that "deranged Austin" look down when he's looking at Jericho. Just casual *thwack thwack thwack thwack* with the cane to get his hands on Jericho.

That awkward space between rings strikes again with the Hagerbombed through the table. Looked so uncomfortable.

Sheesh. The last time I saw this much ring disassembling, Daniel Bryan was fired from WWE. God.

RUBBING ALCOHOL TO THE OPEN WOUND OF MOX! JUDAS EFFECT INTO THE TACKS. DAYUMN. Mox has twenty tacks in his back and legs and takes a DDT on the tacks for good measure. No surprise, but Jon Moxley is one sick fuck.

JR with the Jezebel reference. Classic.

Oh no, Jerico climbing to the top of the DIABOLICAL STRUCTURE (JR didn't use that one, but you know that he wanted to). and Kingston's like "You've just activated my trap card!"

Nice that most of the top of the cage is reinforced, makes this top of the cage stuff more active. I wish there was fighting in the ring, but you know, I guess they want everyone to focus on the roof.

Sammy says his goodbyes to Jericho, knowing what's about to happen.. I'd like to think he said "If I don't make it Chris, stay away from Tay, you got it?"

BON VOYAGE SAMMY!

Funny, the landing is just perfect, as the towel on Sammy makes it looks like he's a neck brace already. Best time for a PiP. No one's gonna change the channel during THIS commercial break. HOCKEY FIGHT ON TOP OF THE CAGE!.

I think this cage top area fight is a bit too long, but eh.

Running Boot in top of the cage? OW.

GIANT FUCKING SWING ON TOP OF THE CAGE? OK. That's fucking nuts.

DOUBLE SUBMISSION ON TOP OF THE CAGE FOR THE WIN.

Holy shit.

[BYU 14]

With the bumps Sammy takes, I honestly hope he makes to 30 before he has to retire

[JonInMiddleGA]

There seems like a pretty fair chance this MiTB is the weakest WWE PPV in history.

I'm not sure even the main event can save this after a parade of the terminally uninteresting (at best) and horribly unspeakably annoying.

[RainMaker]

I haven't watched WWE much but do they normally put 5 minutes of commercials between their PPV matches? If they need time, why not put a promo package foe the people who aren't watching the 10 hours a week of the product?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

There seems like a pretty fair chance this MiTB is the weakest WWE PPV in history.

I'm not sure even the main event can save this after a parade of the terminally uninteresting (at best) and horribly unspeakably annoying.

Wasn't there an old ECW one (the WWE version) that was bad back in the day. Like the only act people wanted to see was Punk and they buried him minutes into a multi man match.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I haven't watched WWE much but do they normally put 5 minutes of commercials between their PPV matches? If they need time, why not put a promo package foe the people who aren't watching the 10 hours a week of the product?

Not to this extent. It's been so over the top tonight that I'm wondering if there's either a match that went so / one that's getting cancelled.

[RainMaker]

And when did the Usos start wrestling at such a slow pace? This tag match is boring as hell. I know they're in Roman's stable but they don't have to wrestle like him.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Wasn't there an old ECW one (the WWE version) that was bad back in the day. Like the only act people wanted to see was Punk and they buried him minutes into a multi man match.

Ah, December to Dismember 2006. Less than 5,000 in the building in Augusta, GA and the lowest buy rate in WWE history (prior to the WWE Network)

Heyman was fired less than 24 hours later. Big Show turned down $1m/year to stay and worked only one more match before "retiring"

After discussion here, we agreed that we've seen at least one worse: Battleground 2017: Jinder vs Orton Punjabi Prison, Cena vs Rusev Flag Match, and the shockingly bad AJ vs Kevin Owens match

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Tonight he worked a teenaged prospect called Austin Theory (I think he has had a cup of coffee with Evolve). Tomorrow night he works Gunner.

Solid effort by both guys tonight, the kid is green but they did a nice enough match, suitably stiff. Oddball booking, Theory wins via DQ when he's attacked by a would-be title challenger. Could have just as easily had him attack Riddle ("you don't BELONG HERE" was said at one point) and let him have the DQ win.

Riddle was cool with the fans, played the tweener well. Nothing but respect for his effort tonight afaic.

edit to add: Here's a very quick clip (if the link works)
https://www.facebook.com/jon.loveles...1321311137484/

This post -- from December 2017 -- aged rather well I think

[JonInMiddleGA]

G1 Climax is underway.

For better or worse ... and I fear for much much worse.

I dislike the expanded field, I absolutely HATE the new format.

They have an extremely tough road ahead to keep me engaged over 33 days, and to be honest, I've never been less engaged going into a G1 since I started watching NJPW regularly.

[JonInMiddleGA]

pro tip: KENTA promos are absolute gold lately

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

G1 Climax is underway.

For better or worse ... and I fear for much much worse.

I dislike the expanded field, I absolutely HATE the new format.

They have an extremely tough road ahead to keep me engaged over 33 days, and to be honest, I've never been less engaged going into a G1 since I started watching NJPW regularly.

I have almost zero interest in it with the expanded field. Heck, you could probably make a better case that the field should be trimmed down from previous years.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I have almost zero interest in it with the expanded field. Heck, you could probably make a better case that the field should be trimmed down from previous years.

Yeah, there's gonna be some six degrees of hell ugly matches at a level we've never seen in the G1 before.

FB memories noted for me that this is our 5th year watching G1 in full.

[Mota]

I find there are too many matches in the G1 now. I was able to watch them all when it was 10 nights. Now they're more than 20 nights? That's just insane. By the time I'm done watching the G1, I'm 6 more months behind on the product, LOL.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

I find there are too many matches in the G1 now. I was able to watch them all when it was 10 nights. Now they're more than 20 nights? That's just insane. By the time I'm done watching the G1, I'm 6 more months behind on the product, LOL.

This year is down to 87 matches, fewer than in 2 of the last 3 years.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

This year is down to 87 matches, fewer than in 2 of the last 3 years.

I'll be completely honest, I'm still working on 2018 NJPW. I've been watching all the main shows and tournaments since around 2009, but definitely lagging behind more and more lately. For me, that change from 10 night G1 to 24 nights killed me. I started skipping all the opening matches and going right to the tournament matches, even though you miss some storylines.

[RainMaker]

Is there a good site or Twitter account that mentions which matches are worth watching? I'd love to watch it but I honestly don't care (or even know in some cases) the competitors.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Is there a good site or Twitter account that mentions which matches are worth watching? I'd love to watch it but I honestly don't care (or even know in some cases) the competitors.

A certain amount of YMMV applies to your question but this might be the closest thing I've seen ahead of time. It previews night by night with the matchups

G1 Climax Preview, Part II: Night-by-Night


re: YMMV -- a good example might be Filthy Tom Lawler. If you like him / his style, you're more likely to enjoy his matches. If he's not your cup of tea going in, I doubt much will happen in G1 to change that. Same applies to Jeff Cobb, Jonah, and really any of the one trick ponies (and there's quite a few of those this year)

Will this year's G1 have a genuine breakout body of work, like Lance Archer 3(?) yrs ago? My guess is no, because each guy works fewer matches and with less variety in opponents My son says, fwiw, if there is one this year he thinks David Finlay could be that guy.

That's different, of course, from who gets a push (look for that to maybe be Henare & Cobb, if anybody other than the usual suspects). Even if Henare & Cobb both reached the final four or beyond, I don't see me enjoying them any more than the near-zero level I have them at as the G1 begins. They are what they are, you either enjoy them or you don't.

I also saw a great observation about G1 a few days ago, roughly said that it isn't used to raise/lower people's positions in the grand scheme of things but rather to solidify the higher/lower position they'd moved to over the past year's body of work. I thought about that a bit and realized it was pretty much true.

[BYU 14]

Looking forward to the FTR / Briscoe Brothers match on the upcoming ROH PPV, and hopefully this means the Briscoe's, Khan and the network have worked something out that allows them to appear on AWW TV

[miami_fan]

Put it on your calendar, set your alarm. Here is a match that you did not ask for.

Ric Flair will team up with Andrade El Idolo against Jeff Jarrett and Jay Lethal in his final match pic.twitter.com/Y4Kfdcxvi0

— B/R Wrestling (@BRWrestling) July 18, 2022

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Put it on your calendar, set your alarm. Here is a match that you did not ask for.

It sold a helluva lot of tickets, at pretty hefty prices (considering the rest of the card)

I wouldn't pay the going rate for it, wouldn't make the trip to see it either ... but there wasn't a shortage of people who would

[JonInMiddleGA]

And while I'm skeptical of the quality that a Flair main event will have, the card itself is quietly turning out to be pretty okay

Wolves vs Machine Guns, and Fenix v Taurus v Lareo Kid v Bandido could both be bangers.

When the Briscos are in one of the weaker matches (not sure the young Von Erichs are ready for that tbh), it's a decent card.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It sold a helluva lot of tickets, at pretty hefty prices (considering the rest of the card)

I wouldn't pay the going rate for it, wouldn't make the trip to see it either ... but there wasn't a shortage of people who would

Eh, people will pay good money to watch a lot of things. It does that mean the product will be any good. It has the feel of Mae Young's final match to me.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Eh, people will pay good money to watch a lot of things. It does that mean the product will be any good. It has the feel of Mae Young's final match to me.

It should be pretty by the numbers honestly.

Lethal & Andrade will carry the bulk of it, Double J will try to cheat and fail, Flair will tap him out with the Figure Four. Easy peasy, fans go home happy.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Lethal & Andrade will carry the bulk of it, Double J will try to cheat and fail, Flair will tap him out with the Figure Four. Easy peasy, fans go home happy.

Yeah, if this was a singles match, I'd be skeptical. But Andrade and Lethal are pros who will do most of the work. JJ looks to still be in incredible shape and can probably still do a few things. Flair will come in, get the shit kicked out of him for a bit, fire back, and submit JJ.

This isn't HBK trying to do his gimmick at 60. Flair is a master of doing a lot with as little as possible. I'm still blown away watching some of his old matches and seeing how good he was with how little he did.

[RainMaker]

Because I was insanely bored after having my knee scoped and in bed, I decided to fire up a few Russo Nitro episodes. I don't really remember that era well and I believe I had long tapped out on WCW when he came in. But I had to see what it was like.

It is the most bonkers, nonsensical wrestling show I've ever seen. Like I'm not even talking about the lack of matches, terrible finishes, and bad comedy. The show just makes no sense. People would be friends in the first hour and hate each other at the end for no reason. Stipulations would just sort of come up when a finish happens in a match.

I don't know how to even explain it outside of it feeling like you gave a sheet of paper to a 12 year old and said "write a 2 hour wrestling show". It was almost entertaining in a trainwreck sort of way. Also Russo booked himself like a total badass.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Jay White, declaring this tournament as "The Tojay Show" (pronounced like the NBC morning program), is just ... gold.

Trust me.

The backstage promos are getting better and better, as quite a few guys are really finding their characters. Sho as "disconnected from reality guy" is far more entertaining than anything he's done since his heel turn for example.

[SirFozzie]

Ok. I've gotten several hours of COVID-infused "sleep" to try to dampen my disappointment at that result, but I'm still not pleased with it.

So you get angry,snarky, defensive Foz instead of clear-thinking Foz.

The only vehicle to have more people step off, confused and crying then the Eddie Kingston bandwagon is the infamous porn BangBus.

Jericho and Kingston was a battle of pro wrestling and sports entertainment. And folks, nothing says sports entertainment like a hastily rushed main event that has the wrong guy win and everyone wondering "What was the purpose of that?". All it needed was Tony S. yelling "Folks, we're out of time, we'll see you on Thun...er.. Rampage!"

Maybe from now on, we should let super important matches lead off the show instead of at the end, because well, one of the problems with a show that offers its performers such freedom is that timing and time management can rear its head...

Honestly, I know, "In Coach Tony we trust", but I just don't get it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

VINCE MCMAHON ANNOUNCES RETIREMENT FROM WWE | PWInsider.com

You could sink a battleship, or ten, with all the flaws of Vincent Kennedy McMahon.

That said, I'd say the odds are better of the company collapsing over the next few years than there are of the product improving.

I'm not at all sure that the WWE survives to this day, even in the current weakened state, without the sheer force of will and final say so of its leader.

[miami_fan]

Does this may it more or less likely that a sale happens soon?

[JonInMiddleGA]

And shortly after the announcement a reportedly "livid" Brock Lesnar walked out of the Smackdown taping.