Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[Flasch186]

The start of AEW from last night? I dunno anyways, the skateboarder versus the big guy wherein Sting eventually showed up? Anyways, that one....that was a tremendous amount of blood for an opener.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And we're finally caught up on G1 Climax -- 17 nights done, roughly 60 hours (counting the post match interview room stuff -- just in time to be able to watch the block finals live about 22 hours from now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

#G1Climax32 semi-final night concludes with probably the best match of the tournament so far.

One more night to go ... with a main event spot at Wrestle Kingdom in January on the line.

Not the outcome(s) I was hoping for but enough that I can anticipate a good, potentially great, Final tomorrow.

[Toddzilla]

Naito and ZSJ only went 2 minutes - did I read that right?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Naito and ZSJ only went 2 minutes - did I read that right?

Yes, which led to an absolute classic meltdown by ZSJ. Tremendous fun.

(That glorious post-match tantrum, which lasted considerably longer than the match itself, has since been followed by "Zack announces "American expedition" to reorganize! “I have not yet won the IWGP World Heavyweight Championship.
"I'll be on 'NJPW STRONG.' It might be good to be on 'Zack Saber Jr. World Tour.'" )

[JonInMiddleGA]

Announcements at the break during tonight's G1 Climax final:

Wrestle Kingdom returns to a one night affair (thank goodness) 1/4, New Year's Dash returns to the schedule 1/5 and NJPW America involves the women of Stardom for the first time as Rumble on 44th Street hits NYC 10/28!

[JonInMiddleGA]

The final days salvaged some, but not all, of an absolutely awfully formatted #G1CLIMAX32 .

Overexpanded field, format destroyed any sense of a tournament until the last three shows.

But absolutely not the fault of the efforts in the ring.

Match of the Year candidates on each of the last 2 nights.
#g1final

[RainMaker]

That was really weird. Not sure if Punk is hurt or what their plan is. Still really hate the interim title thing and think they devalued the title a lot during it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That was really weird. Not sure if Punk is hurt or what their plan is. Still really hate the interim title thing and think they devalued the title a lot during it.

1 of 2 possibilities seem likely:

a) Punk was rushed back too soon (or had a setback) and this squash was to get the match in as promised but put him back on the shelf for more healing time

or b) his decision to go into business for himself on the mic (re: Hangman) went over as poorly with TK as it went over with roughly half the locker room

[Toddzilla]

3) this sets up the rematch at All Out

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

3) this sets up the rematch at All Out

Just seems weird that your build to the PPV is to absolutely squash one of the competitors. Like why would anyone want to see them fight again?

[Flasch186]

Everyone keeps saying it was a squash but it wasn’t. The road agent instruction “Keep strong” definitely was in there because he was very very hurt & wasn’t 100% in moxleys win.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Everyone keeps saying it was a squash but it wasn’t. The road agent instruction “Keep strong” definitely was in there because he was very very hurt & wasn’t 100% in moxleys win.

The TEW is strong in you.

[RainMaker]

I think Ospreay is ridiculously good but I just can't get into the choreographed stuff he does sometimes. That match last night was great but the first 2 minutes with one of the Lucha guys just came across silly. I know I'm in the minority on that since the crowd seemed to enjoy it, but it's just so out of place to me and feels unnecessary for such a talented wrestler.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think Ospreay is ridiculously good but I just can't get into the choreographed stuff he does sometimes. That match last night was great but the first 2 minutes with one of the Lucha guys just came across silly. I know I'm in the minority on that since the crowd seemed to enjoy it, but it's just so out of place to me and feels unnecessary for such a talented wrestler.

There are moments where he falls back into Silly Ospreay, I only saw a couple clips from last night and spotted one of those moments myself. But better there than on a bigger stage I guess.

[RainMaker]

What's the deal with him and Omega? Do they legitimately not like each other?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What's the deal with him and Omega? Do they legitimately not like each other?

They either don't care for each other much OR it's been a pretty good work.
In 2022, unless it involves Eddie Kingston, who can be sure?

(I 100% believe Kingston doesn't like Guevara ... but then again, at this point, who does?)

[RainMaker]

I don't think Kingston likes many people which is sort of the fun part about him.

They should also fire Guevara for the statement he just put out. I'm not going to go full-on Cornette with the "maintaining kayfabe" stuff, but come on. Say what you want about WWE, but I can't imagine that would fly during an ongoing feud.

For those who didn't see it, here is his statement:

Sammmy Guevara issued the following to Fightful after our report of the Eddie Kingston suspension. The full context can be seen in the previous article.

"As a professional you communicate things that you don’t want to be said (like other people I’ve been in programs with and have worked with Matt Hardy, Jericho and others) and I did communicate of what I didn’t want to be said in this angle and Eddie didn’t. But Eddie did not do the same and Eddie did not mention to me or the coaches or TK or anyone in AEW what he didn’t want said.

So after Tay’s and my match with Sky Blue and Dante I cut a promo on Eddie insulting Eddie and the fans as a heel. Which I know the thing everyone loves to do is hate Me & Tay so I’m the perfect person to play this ass hole character for Eddie to ultimately beat at All Out. I see what people say online about Eddie and his appearance. (Which anyone who legitimately shames Eddie for how he looks can go to hell, it’s the same people who shame me for being too small) so Sammy Guevara the character I could be the physical person playing that person that Eddie can shut up at All Out.

But Eddie did not do the professional thing and communicate to me, which if he did I never would have said it cause the last thing I want to do is hurt someone for real.

So after the promo I get to the back and Eddie is flipping out yelling “YOU CANT CALL ME FAT” over and over as I’m trying to walk down the stairs in gorilla making a big scene. People get in between us, Eddie try’s to pie face me and he more life touches my face it was weird. And everyone backs everyone up. It was unfortunate cause this promo was on a taped show and easily could have been edited (which they ended up doing anyways) i know this isn’t Eddie’s first time being aggressive and getting out of control backstage. I know he had to do some kind of anger management after this whole thing. This whole thing was very unnecessary but it Is what it is, Live & learn I guess, onto the next we go."

Guevara requested to be quoted directly on the matter.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

They should also fire Guevara for the statement he just put out.

It's the sort of shit you get when people who don't have a clue about the business work for people who don't have a clue about the business.

[RainMaker]

It's Russo shit. Like I know it's fake, the deal is that you pretend it's real.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's Russo shit. Like I know it's fake, the deal is that you pretend it's real.

And it's a pretty basis tenet of the entire business.

We know as viewers that "suspension of disbelief" is required. What possible benefit is there to making our end of the bargain MORE difficult?

[RainMaker]

Can someone fill me in on what happened with Ospreay? I don't follow NJPW much, but did years ago before the pandemic. He was a junior heavyweight who just did flippy matches. Talented guy and all, but never imagined him as a heavyweight.

So it seems like he bulked up a lot over the past few years and changed his style. Kind of a hybrid of the flippy stuff with some strong style. Pretty impressive that he can still do the athletic stuff with the added size.

I know I'm late to the party but everything I've seen from him this year is so impressive. He's also not bad on the mic. Again, old news to most of you but was a "wait that's Will Ospreay????" from me.

[hoosierdude]

I second that thought Rainmaker. Surprise to me too.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Can someone fill me in on what happened with Ospreay? I don't follow NJPW much, but did years ago before the pandemic. He was a junior heavyweight who just did flippy matches. Talented guy and all, but never imagined him as a heavyweight.

So it seems like he bulked up a lot over the past few years and changed his style. Kind of a hybrid of the flippy stuff with some strong style. Pretty impressive that he can still do the athletic stuff with the added size.

I know I'm late to the party but everything I've seen from him this year is so impressive. He's also not bad on the mic. Again, old news to most of you but was a "wait that's Will Ospreay????" from me.

His transition to heavyweight was pretty quick. And as he said recently (paraphrasing) "I'm mostly hated for stuff I physically can't even do anymore lol"

[JonInMiddleGA]

CM Punk gonna CM Punk.

That's what happens when a company has zero adult leadership.

{don't worry, if you have no idea what I'm talking about, you'll know by tomorrow if you follow the IWC}

[Toddzilla]

OK, Jon, how much of that was worked? I mean it was def 100% real and legit, but do you think how hard he buried the "EVPs" was at least a little work?

To me, the fact that he name checked Page but not the Bucks or Kenny leads me to believe they want to turn this into an angle. I know, they want to turn *everything* into an angle, but with Tony sitting there eating shit while Punk rants, it just seemed too....real?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

OK, Jon, how much of that was worked? I mean it was def 100% real and legit, but do you think how hard he buried the "EVPs" was at least a little work?

To me, the fact that he name checked Page but not the Bucks or Kenny leads me to believe they want to turn this into an angle. I know, they want to turn *everything* into an angle, but with Tony sitting there eating shit while Punk rants, it just seemed too....real?

Most indications are that it was mostly Punk taking advantage of the much richer version of Dixie Carter, a money mark when all is said & done.

Given what we've heard in recent months, it would be on brand for Punk and the EVPs to be almost completely incompatible. I mean, that'd be a LOT of egos to get along in any situation.

The one thing I think isn't getting enough consideration is that Punk may have been motivated by nothing more strongly than a desire to make sure HE was the talk of the next day instead of MJF.

The Chicago crowd being strongly pro-MJF, on the heels of the crowd being roughly 50-50 for Mox, that had to sting the most overblown ego currently under contract anywhere.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The latest dirt sheet info from the post-media altercation in the back is that Punk threw a punch/punches at at least one of the Bucks.

Will be interesting to see how TK handles that, given that he just suspended (legit, not work, apparently) Eddie Kingston for taking a swipe at Guevara.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

CM Punk gonna CM Punk.

This was pretty funny. Punk is outraged about having to talk about Colt Cobana even though nobody asked him about Colt Cobana.

CM PUNK SHOOTS ON COLT CABANA, ADAM PAGE, AEW EVPS & MORE--- AEW ALL OUT 2022 MEDIA SCRUM - YouTube

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

CM Punk gonna CM Punk.

That's what happens when a company has zero adult leadership.

{don't worry, if you have no idea what I'm talking about, you'll know by tomorrow if you follow the IWC}

Say what you will about HHH, but this promo he cut on Punk was as spot-on as it gets. Punk is always the martyr and while he talks a big game about helping the business, his motives have always been to help himself. He has never elevated anyone he has ever worked with.

That shit worked when he was a really good wrestler in an industry where guys like him didn't normally go mainstream. But now he looks washed in the ring and there are guys who do his antihero gimmick much better.

The more time passes, the more you realise this promo wasn't entirely wrongpic.twitter.com/kFBTtd7rq3

— Just Talk Wrestling (@JustTalkWrestle) September 5, 2022

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

This was pretty funny. Punk is outraged about having to talk about Colt Cobana even though nobody asked him about Colt Cobana.

He said Scott Colton numerous times after saying how he should never have to say Scott Colton's name.

The whole thing would have been a reasonable argument for CTE concerns if not for the reality that Phil Brooks has been well established as a complete prick for a long time now.

[Toddzilla]

FFS the same jerkoffs who reported ad nauseum about the MJF situation for days an basically got every single detail wrong are now trying to tell us they know the play-by-play of what happened backstage at AEW while the owner of the company took questions about being 13-years old in ECW arena and didn't, you know, go check on his biggest star and the EVPs of the company he owns purportedly getting into a major fracas.

The only consistency here is that the sheets consistently get this shit very wrong, so I don't buy a word of any of it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

FFS the same jerkoffs who reported ad nauseum about the MJF situation for days an basically got every single detail wrong are now trying to tell us they know the play-by-play of what happened backstage at AEW while the owner of the company took questions about being 13-years old in ECW arena and didn't, you know, go check on his biggest star and the EVPs of the company he owns purportedly getting into a major fracas.

The only consistency here is that the sheets consistently get this shit very wrong, so I don't buy a word of any of it.

There's no indication TK had the slightest clue what was occurring off-stage while he continued to talk. For as little as I think of the guy, I don't know that you can read anything into his inaction if he was unaware.

Should somebody have told him? That's probably a different question.

[JonInMiddleGA]

fwiw

Sports Illustrated have reported that Kenny Omega, The Young Bucks, Pat Buck, Christopher Daniels, Michael Nakazawa, and Brandon Cutler have all been suspended by the promotion. CM Punk and Ace Steel will either be suspended or will be gone from All Elite Wrestling by the end of Wednesday.

I'm not linking to the SI article referenced here cause I think they are/were one of the links that used to break threads around here.

Interesting to see the recently promoted Pat Buck and Christopher Daniels caught up in the suspensions, guessing it was because they didn't stop the whole mess?

[Mota]

Something needs to happen, that's for sure. Tony has lost control of the locker room, and it really feels like the best days of AEW are behind them. If CM Punk wants to be a malcontent and piss off everybody, he can go back home again. This is quickly becoming another WCW where the wrestlers are running the show, and we all know how quickly it can spiral.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Mota

Something needs to happen, that's for sure. Tony has lost control of the locker room, and it really feels like the best days of AEW are behind them. If CM Punk wants to be a malcontent and piss off everybody, he can go back home again. This is quickly becoming another WCW where the wrestlers are running the show, and we all know how quickly it can spiral.

It's a difficult thing because while yea Punk said a bunch of stuff he had no business saying....you also have three company Executive Vice Presidents literally kicking his locker room door in after he wouldn't answer it (according to some reports, reports are all over the place.) Going to be fascinating to see how this ends up playing out. IDK if Tony has it in him to fire Punk.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Mota

Something needs to happen, that's for sure. Tony has lost control of the locker room, and it really feels like the best days of AEW are behind them. If CM Punk wants to be a malcontent and piss off everybody, he can go back home again. This is quickly becoming another WCW where the wrestlers are running the show, and we all know how quickly it can spiral.

Casual fan alert so this may be obviously wrong but isn't that the selling point of AEW? That Tony Khan is not controlling the locker room? Of course there has to be a balance but just reading about the suspensions read more WWE than what AEW was supposed to represent. Or is that not what it was supposed to represent?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by dubb93

It's a difficult thing because while yea Punk said a bunch of stuff he had no business saying....you also have three company Executive Vice Presidents literally kicking his locker room door in after he wouldn't answer it (according to some reports, reports are all over the place.) Going to be fascinating to see how this ends up playing out. IDK if Tony has it in him to fire Punk.

If you're going to try and destroy someone's career, they may kick your door down and look for a fight.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

If you're going to try and destroy someone's career, they may kick your door down and look for a fight.

I think generally when you bad mouth high ranking company executives you generally get called in for a meeting and/or a call from HR that results in you being suspended without pay or fired. I don't think it's standard to have a company executive kick your door in and start a fight.

I mean the only play here is to either fire them all or fire none of them IMO. Both are going to be hard to stomach.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Casual fan alert so this may be obviously wrong but isn't that the selling point of AEW? That Tony Khan is not controlling the locker room? Of course there has to be a balance but just reading about the suspensions read more WWE than what AEW was supposed to represent. Or is that not what it was supposed to represent?

Giving talent freedom in the ring and on promos is a good thing. It makes for a more organic product. But having wrestlers sabotaging characters and storylines is bad for business.

Tony sounds like a genuinely nice guy. But you can't always be the nice guy in this business. The fact that half the roster has a title now and they are putting on 15 match PPVs shows he is just trying to appease everyone. And trying to appease everyone leads to your biggest star feeling emboldened enough to sit next to you and trash the company and most of the roster.

The company desperately needed someone who could put their foot down. Someone who would nip these things in the bud. And now they're left with a pretty monumental shakeup that could be the downfall of the company.

[Toddzilla]

Sidebar

I hope Tommy End (Malakai/Aelister Black) is going to be okay and he gets whatever help he may need and finds peace.

[molson]

Meltzer says Punk is injured and needs surgery and will be out for a while regardless. So that will be a convenient saving-face "suspension"

I admit I'm pretty entertained by all this stuff. I miss WCW backstage insanity.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Sidebar

I hope Tommy End (Malakai/Aelister Black) is going to be okay and he gets whatever help he may need and finds peace.

Same. Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up back in WWE. I believe his wife is still with the company and he seemed to get along well with HHH.

The House of Black stuff was a nice idea in AEW but they never really did much with it.

[SirFozzie]

He got a limited release, meaning he can't sign with WWE for quite a while.

[RainMaker]

MJF is so good

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

MJF is so good

That was so much gold.

[JonInMiddleGA]

On a side note, could Trent Baretta look or work any worse than he has tonight?

He looks like he ate Colt Cabana and has worked lighter than a feather. He's made Cassidy look like f'n Shibata.

[RainMaker]

MJF reminds me of The Rock in the late 90s. Ability to just completely control a crowd. Jericho mentioned that he will hit a point where he won't be able to be a heel anymore. Kind of like The Rock.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

On a side note, could Trent Baretta look or work any worse than he has tonight?

He looks like he ate Colt Cabana and has worked lighter than a feather. He's made Cassidy look like f'n Shibata.

I think he had spinal fusion surgery and just hasn't looked right since. Doesn't help that he is going against some crazy athletic wrestlers in that match.

[SirFozzie]

Ok. Watched it live, and rather then reacting then (because it would have been gushing fanboy-level shit, I was that pumped up), fell asleep for a few hours. Now, However is the time to REACT.



Highly professional way to open the show. No attempts to be too cute, refer to things in an oblique way, and the fact that they didn't even say any of the suspended folks names (due to the ongoing investigation) or show their faces makes me think it's a shoot. (If it is, the fact that Punk is likely out long term (I've heard a year) due to his injuries means they likely will not turn it into a worked shoot later.

MJF is such an ass. The question was if he could even keep a straight face for five minutes. Shameless face pandering to let the crowd kinda get it out of their system, and then going back to the Maximum Cheap Heat stuff.

Mox wasn't having ANY of this crap. I wonder if Tony let him leave early as a thank you for coming in on his day off. Honestly, if Moxley was a bit (ok, at least five-ten years) older, I'd buy another Minoru Suzuki tour and let the two of them run riot (not Ruby) through the backstage, beating up anyone who doesn't take pro wrestling and the RING seriously. (Someone in the middle of a silly angle? Suzuki-Moxley show up and beat the shit out of them, and just walk away.). But seriously, this was one of those things where the emotion behind it made the promo organic and thus, awesome.

The trios match was well.. insane. Danhausen Falcon Punching Alex's jimmies was awesome. Danhausen also immediately getting the RECEIPT from PAC was DOUBLE awesome. Triple Canadian Destroyer was Triple (of course) Awesome. While I think that Orange/Friends deserve a trios title run, they're an act that doesn't NEED the belt right now, while Death Triangle have been stuck in neutral collectively (other than PAC's title) and needed the belts more.

One complaint. Way too much taunt spamming at the beginning, but at least they got rid of it as the match went on. They should have gone straight to the finish after the Destroyers, but that was a minor quibble (it conditions folks to only expect a pinfall after a finisher)

I feel sad that this looks like the end of Dark Order, with Andrade headhunting Vance.

Toni Storm-Penelope Ford was to me, a meh to meh+ match (but that's a lot because there was so much insanity in the other matches). No challenge in the result really

The Acclaimed. Oh god, this could get spicy.. Swerve interrupts so we'll never know what Caster was going to say (which is another reason I think the brawl is real. Caster would be EXPECTED to meta-comment on the whole thing, so, don't even give him a chance to speak.) I'm probably going to catch some heat for this, but heel Swerve's facial expressions remind me of a famous rapper. Sadly, it's Flava Flav. The thought of the pop in two weeks when the Acclaimed (Hopefully) win the belts in NEW YAWK CITY! warms my pro-wrestling soul.

If you told anyone from the Ruthless Agresion era that the top catchphrase in 2022 is "Now Scissor Me, Daddy Ass!" they'd wonder where the hell things went wrong.

Wardlow is so stuck in neutral, some of this because well, they won't give him anyone real to squash so it's just a one-hit wonder hitting that one-note over and over again. They need to figure out.. something with him. fish or cut bait. Then again with the other titles hot potatoing lately, maybe it's good that Jade and Wardlow hold down the secondary singles belts with an infinite lock.

Danielson-Page 3 wasn't on the levels of the first two, but that just means it was **** awesome instead of ***** awwwwwwwwesome (and truth be told, Jericho half-spoiling the result in his promo took away some of the shine from the match).

Sad that Wheeler Yuta is no longer the Pure Champion but it's great to see that there was no shenanigans, and they give the fans what they want. I half-question why this was the main event behind Danielson-Page, but I get that they wanted to finish with the hometown pop)

They threaded the needle very adroitly. It looks like we won't see or hear from any of the fight parties for several months+, which while sad, is possibly the best for the roster, where they get a chance to shine. The brass ring is available boys, now grab it.