Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[JonInMiddleGA]

We're obviously (I mean, it's well-established previously) in different camps about the promotion overall but we actually agree on several specifics from last night

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

MJF is such an ass. The question was if he could even keep a straight face for five minutes. Shameless face pandering to let the crowd kinda get it out of their system, and then going back to the Maximum Cheap Heat stuff.

Well done stuff, he's such gold. As good as there is on the mic in North America* (*that's not grading on a curve, it's just me acknowledging that promos are a different animal in Japan)

Danhausen also immediately getting the RECEIPT from PAC was DOUBLE awesome.

I like Danhausen generally speaking and I dislike PAC ... but that was precisely what the situation needed & I popped for it.

The Acclaimed. Oh god, this could get spicy.. Swerve interrupts so we'll never know what Caster was going to say (which is another reason I think the brawl is real. Caster would be EXPECTED to meta-comment on the whole thing, so, don't even give him a chance to speak.)

Yeah, as eagerly anticipated as the comments were, it's for the best for his future that they didn't give him a chance to get himself in trouble. I know he could, you know he could, they know he could ... so just don't let it happen.

Wardlow is so stuck in neutral, some of this because well, they won't give him anyone real to squash so it's just a one-hit wonder hitting that one-note over and over again. They need to figure out.. something with him. fish or cut bait.

I so badly wanted Lance Archer to appear there. I'm not a Wardlow guy, I don't see much there frankly and consider him more smoke than fire ... but if it's there, a prolonged hoss feud with Archer might be the thing to bring it out.

[RainMaker]

Ladies panicking on my TL don’t worry.

Just cuz there’s a goalie doesn’t mean you can’t score.

Strive for greatness. #Saltoftheearth https://t.co/M4v2qPY9TF

— Maxwell Jacob Friedman™️ (@The_MJF) September 15, 2022

[RainMaker]

I love how Roman Reigns was already doing WWE moves on QBs as a Georgia Tech football player.

CC: @Brady_Quinn pic.twitter.com/yc0W16IdVb

— Jim Weber (@JimMWeber) September 26, 2022

[miami_fan]

Antonio Inoki, famed combat sports trailblazer, dies at 79

I only knew him as the guy who fought Ali and the guy American wrestlers faced when they went to Japan. Never knew he did so much more both in and out of the ring.

Anyone know the reasoning behind this creative decision?

He was also the first Japanese wrestler to win the WWF championship (though the reign is not currently recognized by WWE)

[RainMaker]

Feels like MJF is at that stage the Rock got to where he's such a ridiculously good heel that it just turns him babyface.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Logan Paul impresses in a WWE ring ... and tore his MCL and meniscus, and potentially an ACL

[dubb93]

My 6 year old is officially a huge WWE fan. He's casually watched stuff for about a year now (maybe a couple of shows a month) and enjoyed the game but we are at the point now where he is wanting WWE toys, shirts, belts, and tracks the days down to RAW and Smackdown.

Seeing him watch it reminds me of him at that age. It's also refreshing to watch with someone who thinks everything is real still.

[dubb93]

Also can’t believe I’m saying this, but if Logan Paul would commit the sky is literally the limit for that man in wrestling. I just don’t know that he is going to be willing to commit.

[miami_fan]

Homeland Security Admits It Tried to Manufacture Fake Terrorists for Trump

Sounds like the taxpayer got good value for the money spent to create those narratives in Portland.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Homeland Security Admits It Tried to Manufacture Fake Terrorists for Trump

Sounds like the taxpayer got good value for the money spent to create those narratives in Portland.

DHS Works media into a shoot, film at 11.

[miami_fan]

Oops wrong thread

[dubb93]

When does Tribute to the Troops air? I’m sitting here watching the taping and it’s odd that Gunther doesn’t have his title.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Also can’t believe I’m saying this, but if Logan Paul would commit the sky is literally the limit for that man in wrestling. I just don’t know that he is going to be willing to commit.

It's probably not worth it to commit full time. Seems like the money is in the big shows. There's probably better ways to make money than doing house shows in Rochester.

I also think he's probably better off as a part-time guy. They have so much TV that guys get overexposed so fast. Now he can pop-in for a couple months, make a few million, and then move on. Him being out for Wrestlemania in Los Angeles is a big blow though.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's probably not worth it to commit full time. Seems like the money is in the big shows. There's probably better ways to make money than doing house shows in Rochester.

I also think he's probably better off as a part-time guy. They have so much TV that guys get overexposed so fast. Now he can pop-in for a couple months, make a few million, and then move on. Him being out for Wrestlemania in Los Angeles is a big blow though.

I get it, he’s already a rich dude. I just think what he does is pretty fickle as many top social media stars have dried up over night. I don’t think he needs to be doing a ton of house shows but the man won’t hit anywhere near where he could if he continues to wrestle 3 matches a year. I honestly think if he would get more reps in that in 5 years you could be looking at one of the top workers in the world which is to say nothing of his charisma and all that.

Also between the botched table spot at Smackdown last night and Rhonda legit falling off the top rope at Tribute for the Troops (I have never seen this happen before last night) it was a bad night for women’s wrestling. Honestly it was a weird Smackdown. Super hot opener and then show just kinda died on us. There were super long stretches of just commercials and backstage segments(the ring announcer actually sang a song to keep up engaged during one commercial break-backstage segments only-commercial break segment.) I’ve previously been to several RAW shows (years ago) and wasn’t really expecting the down time. Things definitely picked up when Roman came out at the end and then Tribute for the Troops started but I don’t know how well that will play on TV as a large portion of the crowd left when Smackdown ended(atleast 25%.)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Wrestle Kingdom 17 card is now set, January 4th at the Tokyo Dome

Ryohei Oiwa vs. Boltin Oleg - Kickoff Show
New Japan Ranbo - Kickoff Show
Satoshi Kojima, Yuji Nagata, & Togi Makabe vs. Tatsumi Fujinami, Minoru Suzuki, & Tiger Mask - Antonio Inoki Memorial Match
Francesco Akira & TJP (c) vs. Lio Rush & YOH - IWGP Junior Heavyweight Tag Team Championships
KAIRI (c) vs. Tam Nakano - IWGP Women's Championship
FTR (c) vs. Bishamon - IWGP Heavyweight Tag Team Championships
Zack Sabre Jr. vs. Ren Narita - NJPW World TV Championship
Karl Anderson (c) vs. Tama Tonga - NEVER Openweight Championship
Keiji Muto, Hiroshi Tanahashi, & Shota Umino vs. Tetsuya Naito, SANADA, & BUSHI
Taiji Ishimori (c) vs. Hiromu Takahashi vs. El Desperado vs. Master Wato - IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship
Will Ospreay (c) vs. Kenny Omega - IWGP United States Heavyweight Championship
Jay White (c) vs. Kazuchika Okada - IWGP World Heavyweight Championship

[Toddzilla]

You need to go out of your way to watch the Omega/Osprey presser from this morning.

[RainMaker]

That was terrific. Felt bad for Jay White and Okada after that.

Ospreay was really impressive. Didn't know he had that in him.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Opsreay promo was excellent ... which leaves me fearing the worst for the booking (it'd be SO njpw to have him lose after that and have to wait years to get the win back)

[RainMaker]

I think it would make sense to have Ospreay win this one. Omega win at an AEW PPV. And then have the blowoff at Forbidden Door 2.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think it would make sense to have Ospreay win this one. Omega win at an AEW PPV. And then have the blowoff at Forbidden Door 2.

I agree ... which is why I have so little faith in it actually being booked like that.

(Yes, I'm rather sick of watching NJPW act like AEW's bitch and making bad decisions repeatedly, so my expectations are fairly colored)

[Toddzilla]

Osprey's post-match presser is another must-fucking-watch. He took the presser from Monday and topped it x10.

[RainMaker]

Incredible match. Not sure I understand the finish. Feels like Ospreay needed that win more than Omega. And it continues to make NJPW look like the minor leagues.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

And it continues to make NJPW look like the minor leagues.

More & more, it feels like they think they're TNA and only matter when they can bring in people from outside.

With the $$$$ being thrown at Sasha (reportedly more than they paid Jericho), I expect we'll start to see a steady exodus of longstanding employees as their contracts expire.

It's clear that the current "leadership" is looking to go other directions.

[RainMaker]

I was too tired to look up reactions but that Sasha debut was brutal. Didn't seem like the crowd cared and then she botched her move.

Can see how Sasha would get a big pop in the States but it just doesn't seem like the Japanese audience cares much and it's a huge waste of money.

[RainMaker]

And I like Sasha. But I think her gimmick is far more suited for an American audience.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Osprey's post-match presser is another must-fucking-watch. He took the presser from Monday and topped it x10.

Jay White post-match presser was also strong.

[JonInMiddleGA]

A fairly interesting New Year Dash*.

We get a tease of what's next for Suzuki, we get a new faction for Taka and most of the Suzuki-gun remnants, we get Jay challenging Hikuleo to a loser-leaves-Japan match, we get an even newer member for TMDK, we get next challengers for most of the belts, and we have a Dragon as KOPW.

And oh yeah, we got to see Okada & Omega in a tag match ... as partners.


*until it was tweeted about, I never consciously realized that the correct name for the event is "Year" not "Year's" which is how most people tend to say it.

[Toddzilla]

NYD was cute, nothing spectacular, but fun to watch.

I am curious how the "Loser Leaves Japan" match is going to turn out.

[dubb93]

WWE looks like they could be headed for possibly years of litigation with Vince giving his notice today that he plans to vote himself and two former execs that are loyal to him as board members. To do this it appears he would have to fire three existing board members. In order to get no one to fight this he added the juicy part to all of this.....if they don't allow him to do this he will block any and all media rights deals in the future (and the deals are reportedly due to be renegotiated shortly.)

It's unclear if the first part actually violates any laws (you could argue Vince knows that doing this could impact the company negatively considering how his exit was forced) but I imagine having Vince back on the board will be bad PR overall but I think his added part about basically nuking the company off TV could for sure have some legal ramifications if a minority shareholder decides to make a point of it.

TLDR Vince is who we thought he was.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Actually, my read was that all the media rights deals would be subject to his approval regardless, but the end goal is he's returning in order to facilitate the sale of the company.

Stock rose 23% with hours of the news.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Actually, my read was that all the media rights deals would be subject to his approval regardless, but the end goal is he's returning in order to facilitate the sale of the company.

Stock rose 23% with hours of the news.

The stock went up on the rumors of a possible sale yea, but there really isn't any reason for Vince to come back and be involved in any of that IMO. He's toxic at this point.

Khan for instance, is 100% capable of leading those discussions if that is the direction they choose to go.

There is also a whole world of distance between subject to his approval due to how much stock he holds and him basically saying even if you get the best deal you could ever get it's finna be a no from me if you don't put me on the board.

[RainMaker]

Does his statement change anything? I was under the impression that he owned a controlling stake in the company. So of course he could refuse to accept a new media deal or do practically anything he legally wants with the company.

The sale makes sense. The demand for not just live content but archived content is still pretty high (although I bet they wish they had sold last year). Plus they have an endless supply of intellectual property.

I guess the question becomes whether Vince gets involved in the day-to-day stuff again.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Does his statement change anything? I was under the impression that he owned a controlling stake in the company. So of course he could refuse to accept a new media deal or do practically anything he legally wants with the company.

Minority stockholder rights are a thing. He can't act as the majority shareholder in any way that would intentionally hurt the minority shareholders. Pretty big gray area but I think taking the WWE off of TV (and maybe even the threat) would probably qualify here. You could make arguments that after the board decided the guy with 2 pending sexual assault lawsuits and countless more allegations coming back would be bad for business that him forcing himself back could qualify here too. With his money though any court case would be tied up probably until his death honestly. He could drag this out forever.

As for getting involved in day to day operations....I'd say that is basically worst case scenario at this point for everyone not named Vince. The product has improved, the stock price has improved, and the morale in the company have all improved with him gone.

[RainMaker]

I think people are interpreting his statement on the media rights as a threat when it's not. I take it as "I'm not going to allow us to sign a media deal that will hamstring us in sales talks".

If the company is to be sold, signing a long media rights deal significantly changes the landscape. I'm guessing the company is much more appealing to Comcast or Disney if they don't have a 10-year deal to air one of their programs on Fox. The companies buying WWE likely want to decide that stuff.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dubb93

but there really isn't any reason for Vince to come back and be involved in any of that IMO

He still owns the majority stake, that's reason enough.

As for Khan, I'd say he's probably among the most likely to be ousted. I figure Steph & Trips may not be long for the place either.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

He still owns the majority stake, that's reason enough.

Fair enough. They really should have forced him out when all the allegations hit. It's pretty disgusting that he's back in charge after all that he has done and with the litigation and possible (although unlikely) charges still pending.

I think people are interpreting his statement on the media rights as a threat when it's not. I take it as "I'm not going to allow us to sign a media deal that will hamstring us in sales talks".

Also fair even though that is not the way I'm taking it. Time will tell though.

If the company is to be sold, signing a long media rights deal significantly changes the landscape. I'm guessing the company is much more appealing to Comcast or Disney if they don't have a 10-year deal to air one of their programs on Fox. The companies buying WWE likely want to decide that stuff.

Not going to argue that if you were going to sell then now is the time to get that done, but if they aren't sold by the time the deals are up you can't just not put your shows on TV. That all gets me back to where I don't know what the point in the statement was if it wasn't a threat.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The three ousted board members were Dillon (former Chief Legal Officer of ExOne Company) , Speed (former EVP & CFO of Six Flags) , and Wexler (ex-SVP General Motors).

In addition, reportedly, Lahoud (CEO of Majid Al Futtaim - Leisure, Entertainment & Cinemas) and Singh (ex Presof Home Entertainment, Sony Pictures) also resigned from the Board of Directors.

[dubb93]

Wonder if there will be any sponsorship fallout? I imagine Fox and NBC won’t say anything as they both almost certainly want to buy WWE.

[dubb93]

Just read that one of the people who resigned was in charge of the WWE’s internal investigation into Vince’s allegations. That would be quite the statement.

[SirFozzie]

Kinda expected this, after all, we all know that retirement stips in wrestling never stick...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Just read that one of the people who resigned was in charge of the WWE’s internal investigation into Vince’s allegations. That would be quite the statement.

But I'm not sure it's a statement of anything quite so definitive as "yeah, I'll be about as welcome here as a torn rotator cuff"

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Wonder if there will be any sponsorship fallout? I imagine Fox and NBC won’t say anything as they both almost certainly want to buy WWE.

Interesting to me that the first speculative article I've seen doesn't list Fox among the most likely early suitors.

The Saudis, Amazon, Comcast, Endeavor (aka the old William Morris Agency) and CAA (the other big time artist rep company), and Liberty Media were the ones mentioned by that particular financial analyst (one among the many I'm sure)

[molson]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Kinda expected this, after all, we all know that retirement stips in wrestling never stick...

I chuckled.

[RainMaker]

The Saudis always made the most sense. I never understood why they tried to go thr golf route. MMA and wrestling feels much easier.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The Saudis always made the most sense. I never understood why they tried to go thr golf route. MMA and wrestling feels much easier.

I can’t even imagine what that could look like. I think maybe they would be pretty hands off on creative, but ask for the older stars to be featured more. Would we be looking at all the big events moving to Saudi? And the women? That’s kind of a bad thought to think about.

[Carman Bulldog]

So he's not actually the majority shareholder in the sense that he only owns around 37.6% of the company. However, the specific type of shares that he owns allow him 80.6% of the voting power.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

So he's not actually the majority shareholder in the sense that he only owns around 37.6% of the company. However, the specific type of shares that he owns allow him 80.6% of the voting power.

When he "retired", those b-stocks with extra voting power should have been converted to regular stock. Obviously he never planned on being away for too long.

[JonInMiddleGA]

"Sources" say that NJPW does not expect to be able to re-sign Jay White when his contract expires shortly, same sources say WWE frontrunner to acquire him.

[JonInMiddleGA]

per PWInsider, Stephanie McMahon has resigned from all WWE positions today

edit to add: Quotes from Vince, Steph, and new CEO Nick Khan
https://www.pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.php?id=166852

[Carman Bulldog]

Has Vince ever really cared about anything but creative? There's usually always been other people there that have focused on the admin operations while Vince takes the lead on creative. From what I understand, any shareholders calls or meetings always involved Vince doing a brief opening and then turning it over to others to talk actual business.

If anything, I have to think that this ultimately ends with
a. Vince taking over creative; or
b. A sale negotiated by Vince which involves him staying on with the new owners and remaining in charge of creative

I can't imagine he came back for any other reason except for wanting to be involved in creative.