Werewolf CXL - The Dark Knight Returns - GAME OVER

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

What did I ever do to you?

Fixed with a smilie (or saddy?)

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by dzilla77

Commo is pinging me as well, particularly for his early vote on CF and his interactions with Danny.

Vote Commo

I early voted CF because he asked me for my vote and was asking strange. If I would have been home my normal two hours to deadline I probably would have tried to get the vote off of CF as he started to seem like a villager, but I couldn't do that where I was. Any part of my interactions with Danny that ping you in particular you want clarification on?

[J23]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Here is why I think it is important they don't reveal. We know there are a possible 5 bad guys and I think we go off the assumption there is always 1 supervillian until we see multiple kills. Once we see a night of multiple kills we start focusing in on two supervillians, sure we may be a day off because of them trying to kill the same person, but really we are just a day off on 1/2 the equation as the deranged already know Two-Face. Really though ideally we hit two face, but we should be focusing our efforts on getting deranged up in the running as well and not just supervillians.

As for blocks, there are important blocks still remaining for our one BG left in Dawes and the two forensic officers. We need to ensure we get the most out of these blocks and have them be martyred protecting one of them, not killed because they came out.

We have more than one cop, couldn't another cop guard the one who comes out saying they made the block? The one who blocked could then guard the seer in case his reveal is legit.

Speaking of our seer, did I miss a posting of who he had scanned as clear? Is there a disadvantage of posting who he's scanned that I'm not thinking of? (maybe narrowing down conversion targets for 2face or something?)

[Commo_Soldier]

About to head off to work, some final thoughts.

I think Tyrith is probably a villager.

I'm not a fan of the way Danny has been voting people up all over, could be the normal way he operates, but to me it leads to unnecessary reveals like yesterday or no chance to reveal like day 1.

Vote Danny

Heading into work, be on phone until about two hours to deadline.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by J23

We have more than one cop, couldn't another cop guard the one who comes out saying they made the block? The one who blocked could then guard the seer in case his reveal is legit.

Speaking of our seer, did I miss a posting of who he had scanned as clear? Is there a disadvantage of posting who he's scanned that I'm not thinking of? (maybe narrowing down conversion targets for 2face or something?)

We did have more than one, Abe was lynched day one as a cop so we are down to one now.

[MrBug708]

I think there are three cops left, one of which has the BG role

[Chief Rum]

Well, one cop and two forensics officers. We should probably avoid mixing the two types. They do completely different things.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

About to head off to work, some final thoughts.

I think Tyrith is probably a villager.

I'm not a fan of the way Danny has been voting people up all over, could be the normal way he operates, but to me it leads to unnecessary reveals like yesterday or no chance to reveal like day 1.

Vote Danny

Heading into work, be on phone until about two hours to deadline.

I didn't vote Mau and had nothing to do with his reveal. Day 1, I never voted Abe and his roled lynching certainly had nothing to do with my votes. That whole argument that my voting people up "causes reveals" is ridiculous. I create action in which to get vote history and gauge people's actions. People don't need (and certainly don't) reveal when I put something out there and see what catches on. A quiet game with little action favors the wolves. They can plan better, help set candidates and manipulate things more.

[mauchow]

I meant to say this sooner.. I scanned tyrith last night and he's not our killer.

[Danny]

And for the most part, you are the only one I have been trying to get voted up. But yes, when I am a villager, I will try and help dictate or even force the action. It certainly is better than letting the wolves do so.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

I meant to say this sooner.. I scanned tyrith last night and he's not our killer.

I'm the last person to be questioning Seer scans, but what made you pick Tyrith?

[Danny]

I'm trying to think if Commo's reaction and voting me is worse or better for him. It doesn't appear that I would be getting a ton of votes based on the thread action, so unless he is trying to protect Chief Rum, would he make that vote?

[Danny]

Probably Crimson's post saying he was sure Tyrith was a wolf.

[The Jackal]

I'm still fine voting Tyrith, especially with mau not being totally trusted. But the BG should still probably guard him tonight.

[MrBug708]

I'm pretty certain Mauboy is good. Even though he revealed when he wasn't the leading vote-getter, I would have made the same reveal, especially if I knew I might not be around to watch any last minute switches. Two-face can't kill him so the danger isn't there that would normally be there

[Chief Rum]

Questions for Autumn:

1. What is the order of night actions? Specifically, if a player is converted to a supervillain on a given night and on that very night, Rachel Dawes scans him, will she see him as a supervillain or a non-supervillain?

2. When a disturbed citizen becomes a supervillain, are they told the identities of the other disturbed citizens? Or is it just the other supervillains?

[MrBug708]

And it really sucks that if Mau is the Seer, he can't be night killed, can't be converted, and can't be corrupted, while when I'm the Seer I get lynched because I could be lying, could be corrupt, or could be converted.

Not. Bitter. At. All.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

And it really sucks that if Mau is the Seer, he can't be night killed, can't be converted, and can't be corrupted, while when I'm the Seer I get lynched because I could be lying, could be corrupt, or could be converted.

Not. Bitter. At. All.

i still think you were a wolf

[The Jackal]

Mau can be NKed if/when there is a new supervillain, that's for sure.

[The Jackal]

I should just say Dawes there, but you know what I mean

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Questions for Autumn:

1. What is the order of night actions? Specifically, if a player is converted to a supervillain on a given night and on that very night, Rachel Dawes scans him, will she see him as a supervillain or a non-supervillain?

2. When a disturbed citizen becomes a supervillain, are they told the identities of the other disturbed citizens? Or is it just the other supervillains?

Order is

1. Scans
2. Protect
3. Kill

So a "conversion" would happen after the scans.

All Supervillains always know all the other Supervillains. They never know the Disturbed Citizens. They're too busy being super to deal with that.

[Tyrith]

Bug, it isn't that I have anything against you, it's that I don't have anything against anyone else. That's our problem.

On my phone, will probably check in again later.

[Chief Rum]

Okay, so mau's scan doesn't clear Tyrith of being converted last night. He would have been converted (if that's what happened) after the scan.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Danny

I didn't vote Mau and had nothing to do with his reveal. Day 1, I never voted Abe and his roled lynching certainly had nothing to do with my votes. That whole argument that my voting people up "causes reveals" is ridiculous. I create action in which to get vote history and gauge people's actions. People don't need (and certainly don't) reveal when I put something out there and see what catches on. A quiet game with little action favors the wolves. They can plan better, help set candidates and manipulate things more.

That is ok in a normal game, but when wolves can't talk and very few are known to other voting history is harder to go off of. Still can help but not as much, if anything I just see constant movement as a way we get people revealed. Much like last night, mau was not in the lead when he revealed, but when there is lots of movement and different runs, which it seems to me you try to do on different people some may reveal when they don't have to. I completely understand trying to get a read on people, but it doesn't always have to be done through voting.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Danny

I didn't vote Mau and had nothing to do with his reveal. Day 1, I never voted Abe and his roled lynching certainly had nothing to do with my votes. That whole argument that my voting people up "causes reveals" is ridiculous. I create action in which to get vote history and gauge people's actions. People don't need (and certainly don't) reveal when I put something out there and see what catches on. A quiet game with little action favors the wolves. They can plan better, help set candidates and manipulate things more.

I agree that that sort of action is your normal method but I'm not understanding why you think it's applicable here. What do you hope to gain by pushing Crimson close to mau, for example? I don't think normal voting standards apply here - everyone should be voting for who they think is most likely to be a baddie/least likely to be a goody. And I think you'd realise that which is what makes me wary of you. Along with the strange interaction with Commo.

[Narcizo]

Woh! How did that happen? 15 minutes time difference and I say exactly the same thing as Commo, except less well. Not quite up there with DT's effort yesterday but still pretty impressive.

[Abe Sargent]

Was Listening to: Armen van Buuren featuring Nadia Ali, Who is Watching?

Now Listening to: Frankie Valli, Can't Take my Eyes off You

Next in Queue: Pristina, The Killing Jar

[Narcizo]

Unless explicitly countered I'm presuming that mau is the seer and that there are two killers so the bodyguard has to be protecting mau tonight.

[mauchow]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I'm the last person to be questioning Seer scans, but what made you pick Tyrith?

I chose him as I figured he would be a Lynch candidate today based on what others were saying.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Or, Occam's Razor, I could be a villager with a helpful theory that didn't end up working out. The far more likely result.

I just have a hard time seeing you following that theory onto voting for Crimson given the way he was acting. The theory was pointing to Crimson being Two-Face. Did you honestly think anyone is going to play like that if they're the only wolf in the game? I get that hind-sight is 20-20 but I'm not really buying it.

Not keen on your hesitance in considering candidates today. Like yesterday it feels like you're looking for pointers to help you decide where to vote.

[Narcizo]

Like I was saying yesterday, not like you were doing yesterday.

[Zinto]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I'm still fine voting Tyrith, especially with mau not being totally trusted. But the BG should still probably guard him tonight.

Even if you 100% believe Mau, you could still vote Tyrith since his scans only show Super Villains which there are at most two, so he could still be one of the three deranged citizens.

[Chief Rum]

That's the thing, though, Narc, there's not a lot to go on in this game, and even the voting trends we're trying to find are guesses in a game in which there is only one real wolf to start. The wolves and could be wolves can't even talk to each other either.

You're seeing wolfy hesitance in my approach. But what's really happening is that I am trying to glean something--anything--from what little we do have, and that takes time and posts. And especially when most of the day, I am checking in from work and catching up.

My CF vote yesterday was mostly about the theory I presented being the only one presented to that point that had any kinda logic behind it, and the fact that he was in the mix. I wasn't going to avoid the Commo-CF runoff that was going at that point; that would have been even more suspicious. And both CF and Commo were posting all over the place, so not like I could choose one over the other on the basis that one is being more subdued. mau hadn't really come up as a candidate yet, and in any case, it seems proven that a vote there is not a good one either.

So not sure what you want me to do in that situation. Go against my own theory, find another candidate on what reasoning, and do a throwaway vote on someone not in the running?

It seems to me I am damned if I do, damned if I don't, with your thinking.

[Zinto]

And the way that night actions are processed there was only one super villain when the scan took place.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Vote - CF

He's been weird, almost too weird

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Does this mean I can be in the Commo circle of trust finally?

On re-reading I have to say that this is pinging me somewhat. It makes sense given the last game but still it's comments like this that people have to be wary of.

I have to say I really wish I could be around a lot later than I am here. I'm really interested in seeing how the voting develops at the time.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

My CF vote yesterday was mostly about the theory I presented being the only one presented to that point that had any kinda logic behind it, and the fact that he was in the mix. I wasn't going to avoid the Commo-CF runoff that was going at that point; that would have been even more suspicious. And both CF and Commo were posting all over the place, so not like I could choose one over the other on the basis that one is being more subdued. mau hadn't really come up as a candidate yet, and in any case, it seems proven that a vote there is not a good one either.

It wasn't solely Commo-CF at the time of your vote. Mau was there as well. But I can see your point but you know, you would say all that if you're a wolf.

[Narcizo]

But yes, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Isn't that the motto of Werewolf.

[Zinto]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

The problem is that there is nothing to be active about. We know nothing and don't have the ability to learn anything, with the exception of 2-3 players. And except for mauboy we need those players to stay quiet for now. There's nothing to be said except for sheer speculation. Honestly, and this is no slight against Autumn, I don't think this ruleset promotes a very active game - there's no catalyst to keep people engaged when we're so in the dark.

I disagree with this. Every game there is only a handful of people who really know anything. Sure voting records are a little easier to look at in those games but it doesn't stop anyone from speculating about anything. All being UTR does is make it harder to get a read on you the way that most lynches happen on, which is not hard evidence, it is all vibe.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

On re-reading I have to say that this is pinging me somewhat. It makes sense given the last game but still it's comments like this that people have to be wary of.

I have to say I really wish I could be around a lot later than I am here. I'm really interested in seeing how the voting develops at the time.

I tend to refer to previous games when making humorous comments (like the latter was). It's also not the first comment I made towards Commo this game

[Narcizo]

I'm not going to leave my vote hanging as might be the case if I leave it on Chief

Unvote Chief Rum
Vote Commo

I don't care if it becomes a runaway - I'm more concerned about getting a bad guy with two killers on the loose than voting record.

[Narcizo]

Like I said - most suspicious of Commo, Chief, Lathum and Danny at this point. I want one of them lynched and I don't want the vote going over to Zinto or whoever becomes the flavour of the moment this time.

[Commo_Soldier]

So why make me the runaway?

[Lathum]

Vote Narcizo

[Zinto]

I hope you are coming back with a reason for voting Narcizo, Lathum since just voting him without an explanation doesn't do anything for anyone.

[MrBug708]

PackerFanatic
Sndvls
Lathum
NTNdeacon
Dzilla77
J23
Saldana
Mckerney
Daddy Torgo

This is a pretty big list of people of we have no insight on whatsoever and it's already day 3

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I agree that that sort of action is your normal method but I'm not understanding why you think it's applicable here. What do you hope to gain by pushing Crimson close to mau, for example? I don't think normal voting standards apply here - everyone should be voting for who they think is most likely to be a baddie/least likely to be a goody. And I think you'd realise that which is what makes me wary of you. Along with the strange interaction with Commo.

You're probably correct here. Since there has only been one wolf who is known to others, reading vote history is not very helpful as long as two face is not involved.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

PackerFanatic
Sndvls
Lathum
NTNdeacon
Dzilla77
J23
Saldana
Mckerney
Daddy Torgo

This is a pretty big list of people of we have no insight on whatsoever and it's already day 3

Yeah, maybe Tyrith was on the right track with his suggestion to vote out people who are not really contributing anything.

[SnDvls]

I still have no information as a vanilla villager so I'm just gonna throw something a the wall and see if it sticks.

vote PackerFan

again no reason 'cept I don't want to vote Commo at this point

[Autumn]

Gotham News Ticker ... many questioned in case of Two Faced Killer

Tyrith - The Jackal
Commo_soldier - zinto, dzilla77, packerfanatic, mckerney, Narcizo
Chief Rum - Danny
MrBug708 - Tyrith
Danny - commo
Narcizo - lathum
PackerFanatic - Sndvls

[The Jackal]

Boy we're spread out