Werewolf VI - Den of Thieves

[Swaggs]

On the same night that I was killed, I killed Vince.

[Swaggs]

Whoops. Posted too quickly.

At one point, someone mentioned that they saw me with a bloody weapon, so I figured most folks knew that I'd taken out the evil creature Vince.

I'd be interested in hearing who else murdered who, and why?

I noticed Vince making some strange comments and almost overplaying the role of a bandit. I had planned all along to use my kill early, because I wanted to have the chance before I got killed.

[Vince]

I was afraid I was overplaying my hand -- I was just having too much fun with it

Jerk.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I'd be interested in hearing who else murdered who, and why?

Yeah, who killed me?!?!?!

[jeff061]

I'm guessing Digamma.

[KWhit]

And I guess BrianD killed me. Why you do dat?

[digamma]

Yeah, I killed you Jeeber.

I pretty much qualified as least valuable player this game.

I knocked you off because you kept coming up in the voting, so you were either a distraction to us or really a creature. Better to get rid of the threat.

I would not have revealed my role today, but Fouts outed me. Was that a lucky guess or did the creatures have knowledge of the Camp Leader?

[jeff061]

The Warlocks last great ability was knowing everyones roles. It was no coincedence I targeted the Guard, what better way to discredit their defense.

If they had gotten me or Fouts tonight what would Brian have gained tomorrow? He was set to sacrifice someone else.

[Eaglesfan27]

Wow. That was a very nice ability for the Warlock.

[KWhit]

Great game, Peregrine. That was a lot of fun.

[Suicane75]

I'm too trusting to play this game. Jeff tried to kill me and I was still thinking he was a cool dude.

[jeff061]

lol, sorry man , it was only because of the role you had.

Between all the speculation and outcome of the Thomkal situation yesterday and the events of today it's been a very entertaining couple of days.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I'm too trusting to play this game. Jeff tried to kill me and I was still thinking he was a cool dude.

Jeff is pure evil, never trust him. In fact, kill him first in the next game!

[jeff061]

Hehe, right, I'm pulling a Mustang and sitting the next one out. I'm exhausted and not to trustworthy.

[Suicane75]

I was utterly confused because all 3 of you were playing up that you were big time good guys, and i knew that couldn't be true, i figured 1 of you for a bad guy, but I didn't know who, turns out 2 of you were.

[digamma]

I should have gone with my gut Suicane. I knew you had seen me killing Jeeber, but the others knew so much about my role. That threw me for a big loop.

[jeff061]

I just wanted you on my side no matter what. I knew it was going to be between me and Suicane, and who you believed is who would live. Probably would of been closer if Suicane had been around prior to the deadline. I was prepared for another go .

[hoopsguy]

Hey, I tried to kill Jeff before the Thomkal plan

I wasn't set on voting with Jeff today, but was swayed when Fouts and Digamma piled on. I didn't think there were three creatures left (there weren't) so that didn't make sense to me.

Then Fouts knows my role - I never thought of that as a warlock power and didn't know how the creatures would have that information. So that cinched my call tonight.

Was the only way to get the warlock by eliminating the creatures?

Peregrine, who did heybrad convert before I took over? It wasn't much fun being powerless and alone in the game when I jumped in.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I just wanted you on my side no matter what. I knew it was going to be between me and Suicane, and who you believed is who would live. Probably would of been closer if Suicane had been around prior to the deadline. I was prepared for another go .

As I said, im not sure there would of been much of a fight cause I was believing that you only thought you saw that so i was cutting you some slack. Stupid me, lol.

[jeff061]

You scared the crap out of me hoops. I SOO wanted to kill you, but it wouldn't look so nice.

Was the only way to get the warlock by eliminating the creatures?

Yeah

I think heybrad tried to convert Brian, someone did. I'm not sure the whole sequence of events and how it affected him.

[jeff061]

If you had gotten back prior to the deadline and saw my "contradiction" bluff, I think you would of loudly changed your tune .

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by jeff061

If you had gotten back prior to the deadline and saw my "contradiction" bluff, I think you would of loudly changed your tune .

Thats true.

[Vince]

From a creature's perspective...

On the first day, I wanted to make sure I voted for someone that wasn't going to be lynched. That's why I lingered off the JeeberD bandwagon. Little did I know that Mr. W would end up getting the noose anyways.

On night one, we were worried that Qwik was either a guard/spy type, or was trying to convince people that he was one. Either way, he already had people listening to him, and we wanted that to end quickly.

Two fun byproducts of killing him were that A) It made him look MORE like a Spy type that needed to be offed, therefore putting more suspicion on Jeeber (who he had voted for) and B) It made KevinNU7 look a little guilty, since Kevin had voted for Qwik's lynching. Both guys weren't on our side, so we liked the outcome.

In Day 2, when SirFozzie got run down by a marauding bandwagon, Raiders Army slipped up at some point in his typing and put "PMs" in there. I seized the opportunity to put him in a bad light without looking like I was really implicating him by questioning his motives. Sadly, I think this move is what got me lynched.

We decided on Night 2 to go after Coffee Warlord for a few of the benefits we had gained by killing Qwik on Night 1 -- Henry would start to look suspicious, and it would confuse people some more. With no one having even brought up our names as potential lynch-ees yet, and 3 bandits dead, we were feeling pretty good about ourselves...

...then the shit hit the fan with two of us going down in one night, rather unexpectedly. I didn't converse with Fouts at all after that, other than a couple of PMs congratulating him on the brilliance of his move by declaring his "Role." I was mighty impressed with that one

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I was being converted when Henry attacked me.

I didn't think I was lying about not choosing who to view until Suicane starting talking like he had. I was confident that Neon never had talked like that and the role didn't say anything about it, so I had little choice but to go with it, since I knew Thom would notice the difference between us.

From what the role said, my interpretation was that they saw what went on during the night as a whole, not specific targets, because there had been no information either in the role description or Neon's reveals that he had targetted specific people. Perhaps I misread his posts.

As for you thinking I might put the two of you up with my votes, I was thinking of putting Neon up actually for his unfathomable to me vote for Brian. I really thought he had been converted and the whole Brian vote was a smokescreen.

I'd also like to apologize to the bandits left in the game at the point I did my plan. What I should have realized was that my plan worked in reverse. It got the creatures agreeing with it, the bandits not.

[henry296]

There was one clue that might have lead us to realizing that Jeff's conversion was what caused my attack to fail. My description kept referring to a blue light and the same blue light was in the description of the warlock's creation.

I am now 0 for 2 as a bandit. In this game my wild speculations to spur discussion was the key to my demise.

[Neon_Chaos]

Wow. I was THAT close to ending this.

BUT NOOOOO... Y'ALL DIDN'T VOTE FOR FOUTS.

[jeff061]

Like I said Thom, until Suicane started saying he targeted people I thought the Guard role was played just like you just explained. That's why I was pretty sure about Neon, because I never got the impression targets were picked throughout the course of the game.

[digamma]

Thomkal, you had to try. No worries. It was a great effot.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by digamma

Yeah, I killed you Jeeber.

I pretty much qualified as least valuable player this game.

I knocked you off because you kept coming up in the voting, so you were either a distraction to us or really a creature. Better to get rid of the threat.

I would not have revealed my role today, but Fouts outed me. Was that a lucky guess or did the creatures have knowledge of the Camp Leader?

I have to say I'm glad Digamma killed you Jeeber. Everyone was so focused on you and I was so sure you weren't a creature with Coffee Warlord's comments and the fact that Suicane was still alive after voting for you three times in a row I think. Ironically that's when I thought he might be a creature-because he was trying his hardest to get a bandit killed.

[hoopsguy]

In hindsight, the warlock having the ability to see roles really was disruptive. I guess it isn't a total unbalancing factor given that the warlock is not sure to be spawned if the stones pass hands, but that knowledge gives the creatures a huge edge in the late stages.

Kwhit, when are you looking to start your next game?

[Thomkal]

Oh and from the role description I never would have known the Camp Leader had the bandit kill ability. Good job keeping that under your hat Digamma

[jeff061]

Actually I never asked, was there any reason I was targeted to be converted? I still can't believe I got attacked and converted the same night. I could probably of laid low til the end of the game if that hadn't of happened.

I know Vince and Schmitty were thinking about others to convert, which did not happen.

I think the fact the the camp leader role could be passed around to bandits alluded to the fact that they got a kill. At least I did.

[Neon_Chaos]

Day 1 - Scouted in general. Saw Masked looking out for anythign suspicious (thought he was a guard). Saw someone (BrianD) playing with vials from the tower.
Day 2 - Followed Suicane. Saw that he WAS a guard. Also saw Swaggs and TazFTW with bloody weapons.
Day 3 - Followed Fouts, saw that he was looking into each tent, and was coughing and wheezing in an abnormal manner.
Day 4 - Followed EaglesFan, saw him sleep.

I have to admit, Fouts threw me off with that "tasked to find the leader" thing. When BrianD revealed himself, I asked Fouts if he was now the most useless member of the party since the leader had revealed himself, I knew something fishy was going on. I was waiting for a reply from Fouts (who was online for the most part of that night), and when he didn't reply, I knew he was a creature, or for them. Too bad BrianD kicked my ass and ripped my heart out before I could say anything.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Oh and from the role description I never would have known the Camp Leader had the bandit kill ability. Good job keeping that under your hat Digamma

I didn't have it at the beginning of the game, but picked it up after night 1 when vexroid dropped out.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

From what the role said, my interpretation was that they saw what went on during the night as a whole, not specific targets, because there had been no information either in the role description or Neon's reveals that he had targetted specific people. Perhaps I misread his posts.

As for you thinking I might put the two of you up with my votes, I was thinking of putting Neon up actually for his unfathomable to me vote for Brian. I really thought he had been converted and the whole Brian vote was a smokescreen.

I'd also like to apologize to the bandits left in the game at the point I did my plan. What I should have realized was that my plan worked in reverse. It got the creatures agreeing with it, the bandits not.

We were told by Peregrine in a PM that we could choose to either watch in general, or follow a specific person around during the night.

[jeff061]

We also wasted a convert to give Brian a step up the ladder with his powers. We didn't know what it would do, at the time it was the action that made him public and invulnerable.

So the tradeoff would of been that by the end of the game Brian would of been invulnerable, but he would not know the rolls and we would of had three creatures.

[KevinNU7]

FYI, the spy's/sherriff's men converted BrianD to a Sherriff's Man at the beginning of the game. I guess this warlock role superceded that cvhange

[Thomkal]

I thought they would lose the ability to do a kill if they received the Camp Leader role during the game.

I was trying to come up with who the creatures might convert and I mentioned it with Neon and Fouts. But I was very worried that they would go after someone unexpected, which is in part why I made such a big deal about not killing Mr. Simperless. Fouts timed (well he didn't have much choice since he was the only one left) his conversion very well with Neon, RA, or Taz looking like a prime candidate at the time.

As for using my power on Mr. S on day 1, man I didn't want to at all. Didn't want to take another player out on day 1, didn't want to waste my power. But when I was the only one who voted for him. I figured I was dead. Either he would kill me himself if he was a bandit or creature, or someone would target me thinking perhaps I knew something about him since (after Brian took his vote off him) I was the only one voting for him. I wanted to make sure I got the chance to use my bandit kill power before I died, because I really thought I was dead and or converted after the final vote that night. In reality it kept me alive and I laid low the next two votes so people would turn to others.

Oh and Vince I went back and looked at all your posts after you were killed (something I encourage every one to do every time there's a kill) and you did have some pretty telling comments there. Including one where you made a point of mentioning some conflict between Brian and Coffee. After you were dead, I reread that post and was pretty sure you were trying in advance to take the spotlight off Brian making it seem like he was not on your side. Sadly it got lost in the shuffle when all the stuff with Henry and Airhog happened, and well then we know what happened with Brian.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by henry296

There was one clue that might have lead us to realizing that Jeff's conversion was what caused my attack to fail. My description kept referring to a blue light and the same blue light was in the description of the warlock's creation.

I am now 0 for 2 as a bandit. In this game my wild speculations to spur discussion was the key to my demise.

Actually Henry what did you in for me besides the confusion over exactly what people were seeing or not seeing was that you were too late in revealing the full truth about what you had seen rather than little bits. You were trying to protect yourself of course. But since I didn't know that regular bandits would see anything when they used their bandit kill (because I didn't and thought it would be the same with all bandits), The whole stayed in my tent the first two days and then all of a sudden you were seeing things at night confused me until you finally revealed everything. But it was too late by then. If you had come out right after the Airhog vote with all that information, I likely would have believed you. Perhaps not.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Kwhit, when are you looking to start your next game?

Soon. I'm just finishing up solidifying the roles. Look for a signup-type thread in a day or two, and then we'll probably get started on Monday.

[Peregrine]

In hindsight, the warlock having the ability to see roles really was disruptive. I guess it isn't a total unbalancing factor given that the warlock is not sure to be spawned if the stones pass hands, but that knowledge gives the creatures a huge edge in the late stages.

Well keep in mind that he only learned that the very last night before the last day, so it was important but not crippling. And honestly I gave him that instead of what I had originally thought, which was letting him create another creature that night. That definitely would have been crippling, so I didn't do it.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by KWhit

And I guess BrianD killed me. Why you do dat?

Yes, it was me that killed you. The main reason I did it was because you were one of the few people I knew not to be a creature. I could tell that something cool would happen after I sacrificed someone and I wanted to make sure it happened right away and wasn't delated because I failed to sacrifice a creature.

Also, you tend to be play this game well, and you scare me.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I have to admit, Fouts threw me off with that "tasked to find the leader" thing. When BrianD revealed himself, I asked Fouts if he was now the most useless member of the party since the leader had revealed himself, I knew something fishy was going on. I was waiting for a reply from Fouts (who was online for the most part of that night), and when he didn't reply, I knew he was a creature, or for them. Too bad BrianD kicked my ass and ripped my heart out before I could say anything.

You were a guard and that made you pretty powerful. Also, you seemed to have seen some major things already, so we had to get rid of you. At this point in the game nobody could prevent me from killing my victim, so I chose you.

[BrianD]

My path through this game was very confusing. I started off as the vial owner, so that made me a bandit-but-not-quite. Then the first night I got blackmailed to be a king's man. Then both spies died and Heybrad went AWOL so I was on my own again but starting to feel an afinity for the creatures. The next night I sacrificed KWhit to become the warlock, but two of the creatures died. The next night, the creatures used their convert to give me more power and my role became public. I had no idea what to do once I became public so I kept mostly quiet and threw out some random comments.

[Barkeep49]

Saw that this was asked up thread but in case he missed it just wanted to also ask KWhit when his game was going to start. I need something to do at work now that I'm back from vacation.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Day 1 - Scouted in general. Saw Masked looking out for anythign suspicious (thought he was a guard). Saw someone (BrianD) playing with vials from the tower.
Day 2 - Followed Suicane. Saw that he WAS a guard. Also saw Swaggs and TazFTW with bloody weapons.
Day 3 - Followed Fouts, saw that he was looking into each tent, and was coughing and wheezing in an abnormal manner.
Day 4 - Followed EaglesFan, saw him sleep.

I have to admit, Fouts threw me off with that "tasked to find the leader" thing. When BrianD revealed himself, I asked Fouts if he was now the most useless member of the party since the leader had revealed himself, I knew something fishy was going on. I was waiting for a reply from Fouts (who was online for the most part of that night), and when he didn't reply, I knew he was a creature, or for them. Too bad BrianD kicked my ass and ripped my heart out before I could say anything.

See this was the kind of information I was looking for when I did my plan. You were trying to protect Suicane's role from becoming public knowledge and for very good reason. And if you were right about your assumptions with Fouts if you had made them in public, you would have been even more of a target. But when Brian was revealed as the warlock, my goal was to clear as many people as I could as quickly as I could with the help of my fellow bandits. You had to know as a revealed Guard you were a target for death/conversion and all that information would be lost. If either you or Suicane had stepped forward at that point, it might have been a different ending. Sadly I had nothing to go with to let you know for sure I was just a bandit when I was doing my plan, and with my forceful implementation of it I can't blame anyone for keeping their information to themselves. But sometimes you need to take a leap of faith. We did with Fouts to our detriment, but it works the other way too.

I guess I look at the "Seer/Guard" roles a little differently than most. There simply comes a time when you MUST reveal what you have seen and not in a cryptic manner. Yes it likely means your death, but which is worse your death with no information revealed, or your death after giving the rest of the people on your side some information that could win the game for them? Jeeber (sorry to pick on you again Jeebs) died in the first game without revealing anything as a Seer. You died before you could voice your specific concerns about Fouts other than the cryptic comment about Fouts being the most useless character, which made no sense to me.

Things like this is what gets me so frustrated, its almost like people on the "good side" don't want to win if it means sacrificing themselves. I consider it a win for me personally if I die before the game ends, but my side wins, because I likely gave them information that helped them win. I sacrificed myself in Werewolf V and it netted us a Sorceror and a Wolf. (and unknowingly another wolf )

But again I'm sure I wasn't giving you much reason to trust me at this point, so sorry about that, but I'm not sure you would have revealed before your death anyway.

[Suicane75]

Lokking back I agree with you, I made some rookie mistakes no doubt.

[Thomkal]

Oh I wanted to give a thumbs up to Hoops for how he just jumped in with both feet when he got into the game. Had to be a bit intimidating at that point, but you really got into the flow of things quickly.

Also just in case I wasn't clear in my other posts, a big thumbs up to Jeff and Fouts for using the warlock reveal to their advantage using the fact that he couldn't be killed except by a special role as yet unrevealed in the game when we knew there was going to be roles revealed like that. That was very very clever, and by the time I caught on I was too frustrated to fight anymore. Big thumbs up for using my own plan against me too.

:::throws Fouts around the forums as promised:::

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Actually I never asked, was there any reason I was targeted to be converted? I still can't believe I got attacked and converted the same night. I could probably of laid low til the end of the game if that hadn't of happened.

I know Vince and Schmitty were thinking about others to convert, which did not happen.

I think the fact the the camp leader role could be passed around to bandits alluded to the fact that they got a kill. At least I did.

Jeff, I had to convert somebody that wasn't in the limelight, and was online often enough to discuss strategy.

Thomkal, Vince didn't know Brian was the warlock. The creatures had no contact with him until the night I converted Jeff, which was the same night Kwhit was sacrificed.

Great game. I enjoyed it, even though it was nerve-wracking.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Oh I wanted to give a thumbs up to Hoops for how he just jumped in with both feet when he got into the game. Had to be a bit intimidating at that point, but you really got into the flow of things quickly.

Also just in case I wasn't clear in my other posts, a big thumbs up to Jeff and Fouts for using the warlock reveal to their advantage using the fact that he couldn't be killed except by a special role as yet unrevealed in the game when we knew there was going to be roles revealed like that. That was very very clever, and by the time I caught on I was too frustrated to fight anymore. Big thumbs up for using my own plan against me too.

:::throws Fouts around the forums as promised:::

Yeah, you made me feel bad about gaining everyones trust, but hey, creatures are evil! I have a feeling people won't trust me in these games for awhile.