Werewolf CLXI - GAME OF THRONES: GAME OVER!! (See Post #2356--Page 48)

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Nor, for that matter, would Lord Renly be an attractive option, given what happened to the last Lannister to flee there. Which leaves only Lord Stark as a refuge, and the Houses Stark and Lannister can hardly be said to be on friendly terms at the present time.

-Lord Varys

I was not aware that any Lannister had fled to Lord Renly. Clegane fled and was tracked down and executed by Stannis. Why did you think anyone had fled to Renly?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

There's only one Lannister who I'm at conflict with, and he's sitting on the throne in King's Landing right now.

Interesting. The game is afoot my lords. House Stark lays the groundwork to welcome Lord Tywin as a bannerman. The precedents are certainly there - the friendship between Lord Tywin and the late Lord Eddard Stark began during the War of the Ninepenny Kings. Indeed, Jamie Lannister was once intended for Lysa Arryn, which would have cemented a tripartite blood-alliance between Riverrun, Winterfell, and Casterly Rock.

It remains to be seen what Lord Tywin will do.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I would say that most that flee would probably not want to head to Stannis. Especially a Lannister bannerman.

But it is interesting that you say this. Do I detect a crack in the facade of Stark-Dragonstone relations? Do you speak for yourself or your liege, Karstark?

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Interesting. The game is afoot my lords. House Stark lays the groundwork to welcome Lord Tywin as a bannerman. The precedents are certainly there - the friendship between Lord Tywin and the late Lord Eddard Stark began during the War of the Ninepenny Kings. Indeed, Jamie Lannister was once intended for Lysa Arryn, which would have cemented a tripartite blood-alliance between Riverrun, Winterfell, and Casterly Rock.

It remains to be seen what Lord Tywin will do.

It also remains to be seen if you will answer a direct question rather than spouting history lessons Lord Varys.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I was not aware that any Lannister had fled to Lord Renly. Clegane fled and was tracked down and executed by Stannis. Why did you think anyone had fled to Renly?

I misspoke of course. Baratheon's at Dragonstone and Storm's End, it can be quite confusing when one sorts through as much information as I do. I would not trust a stag with my life were I a lion in these days though. After the death of your late husband, I have no doubt the Stags are disinclined to view any lion favorably, and would cooperate to bring justice for their brother down upon the head of any lion that falls into their hands.

-Lord Varys

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

It also remains to be seen if you will answer a direct question rather than spouting history lessons Lord Varys.

[ooc] But i'm a history major by trade, and i love the history of Westeros. Plus I think it's adding cool flavor to the game, and also, at times, it's wrapped around indirect answers. Staying in character [/ooc]

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I misspoke of course. Baratheon's at Dragonstone and Storm's End, it can be quite confusing when one sorts through as much information as I do. I would not trust a stag with my life were I a lion in these days though. After the death of your late husband, I have no doubt the Stags are disinclined to view any lion favorably, and would cooperate to bring justice for their brother down upon the head of any lion that falls into their hands.

-Lord Varys

I see your father has a representative here - he could indicate whether he will be sending me a raven prior to his deadline, or if he desires that I spend my raven for the day on him.

-Lord Varys

[hoopsguy]

I'm reluctant to spend my raven for the day to reach out to you right at this moment, Varys. But I would happily reply if a raven found its way to my quarters.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm reluctant to spend my raven for the day to reach out to you right at this moment, Varys. But I would happily reply if a raven found its way to my quarters.

I understand perfectly. I imagine you have a lot on your plate at the moment.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Except executing my father would aid my son greatly. I doubt any king will execute my father as Casterly Rock will immediately be inherited by Joffrey.

Yes, I doubt that any lord in this land other than Joffrey will execute Tywin, unless they already had Joffrey agreed to bend the knee. If Joffrey had Casterly Rock in his possession he still could not rule the realm, but he could decide the winner by bending to another king. That's too much wealth to be allowed in one boy's grip. Tywin will be held by whoever Tywin turns to. The man may have too many soldiers to be captured. The only question is whether that King will use Tywin to cement an alliance or to lord over the others.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Yes, I doubt that any lord in this land other than Joffrey will execute Tywin, unless they already had Joffrey agreed to bend the knee. If Joffrey had Casterly Rock in his possession he still could not rule the realm, but he could decide the winner by bending to another king. That's too much wealth to be allowed in one boy's grip. Tywin will be held by whoever Tywin turns to. The man may have too many soldiers to be captured. The only question is whether that King will use Tywin to cement an alliance or to lord over the others.

Aaah, but prisoners may only be held for one day, not indefinitely. You do raise an intriguing point about Lord Tywin possessing the might of Casterly Rock and thus potentially being unable to be captured though. Committing the necessary forces to capture Lord Tywin if he flees might also leave claimants weakened on other fronts.

-Lord Varys

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

But it is interesting that you say this. Do I detect a crack in the facade of Stark-Dragonstone relations? Do you speak for yourself or your liege, Karstark?

Neither. And Both.

I was actually speaking to the notion that the last Lannister bannerman who found himself in Dragonstone is no longer with us. Circumstances are different in each case and I really don't know what any side will do if Tywin flees.

It was a noble attempt to destabilize relations however. S

[Autumn]

You can rest assured, Lord Karstark, that there is no secret alliance between Tywin and myself. I've never spoken to the man.

[DaddyTorgo]

Lord Stark,

That makes much more sense now as corrected. I had thought for a moment that perhaps you were a Lannister!

[Coffee Warlord]

It's George Martin's fault. He was clearly too occupied with ranting about the Jets to read properly.

[hoopsguy]

Were I in fact GRMM, this would be the post where I use 1,001 words to describe last nights meal.

[mauchow]

No one is honorable

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

It's George Martin's fault. He was clearly too occupied with ranting about the Jets to read properly.

[ooc] [/ooc]

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Circumstances are different in each case and I really don't know what any side will do if Tywin flees.

It was a noble attempt to destabilize relations however.

Destabilise relations between whom? There is no need for me to destabilize relations between anyone. The laws of the land will take care of that for me today.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

[ooc] But i'm a history major by trade, and i love the history of Westeros.[/ooc]

(ooc "by trade?" You go around giving history lectures? I majored in History as well. But that was so long ago that its history in itself. )

[path12]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

What do the kings know about the damage to their honour?

We now know the extent of our decisions to keep our bannermen from the prior turn. There have been ramifications from that decision, though we still believe we did the honorable thing.

[Narcizo]

(ooc can I just say that I love using "whom" correctly. It wasn't that long ago I found out how to use it. Can't believe I went around for 30+ years not knowing about it)

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by mauchow

No one is honorable

Nope, and I'm not sure how quickly that will be changing either.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Yes, I doubt that any lord in this land other than Joffrey will execute Tywin, unless they already had Joffrey agreed to bend the knee.

I suspect that the best move for Joffrey at this point is to bend the knee to someone. The question is whom he feels the best house to do that to is.

[Chief Rum]

Some things of note. Please read carefully, there are some rule clarifications here that could affect gameplay

1. It has come to my attention that I did not include that a bannerman could choose to Flee his faction, even if he is not an Enemy of the Realm. This option is available to all bannermen at any time.

But keep in mind, all other rules with Fleeing stay in place, which means you are Disavowing yourself and leaving half of your men and gold and any non-family lands with your former liege. Additionally, you will never again be able to rejoin the faction you leave in this manner.

2. A bannerman who is free or "rogue" can actually participate in any war, if the war goes to a second day, much like uninvolved other Houses. However, the bannerman cannot initiate war (as Kings can). And if the bannerman chooses to join a battle, he will immediately be captured by the battle's winning King, whether it is the King he is fighting or the King he is fighting beside.

One other note: My second job did me no favors. I am scheduled every night this week through Saturday. So the deadline will be run late through this week.

[Chief Rum]

Lathum is busy with personal matters, and has asked to be replaced in the game.

For those not sure, he is Theon Greyjoy of the House Stark faction.

I have a PM out to a potential replacement, and I hope to have him in soon.

Just in case anyone is wondering where Lathum is.

[Chief Rum]

Left over notes from last night's action...

Harrenhal and King's Landing were both raided last night successfully. Both are Lannister lands.

Additionally, an attempt was made to raid the Karhold last night, but it failed.

[Autumn]

It seems King's Landing cannot offer the Lannisters much protection.

[MrBug708]

It seems someone bothered to raid me?

[Chief Rum]

A minor but key rule change, which I think is best for the game...

Before, I allowed for an Enemy of the Realm's honor to be cleaned up by the dishonored Lord giving his gold to the poor, and the liege matching it.

I have come to realize that this is very open to manipulation as is. So I am instituting a 20000 gold minimum to be given to the poor to clean up a dishonored Lord's status with the realm.

The ideal would be for 10000 gold to come from the Lord and a matching 10000 gold to come from the new liege. However, many Lords may not have this money. The "acquiring liege" may choose to cover the difference. So let's say a Lord whom has fled has only 5000 gold. His new liege would put in 15000 gold to cover the difference for the fled Lord to clean up his honor.

A rich Lord does not have the option of paying all 20000 gold to clean his honor up. Any King choosing to take on such a Lord will need to contribute at minimum 10000 gold for his rehabilitation.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

[Coffee Warlord]

That makes way more sense.

[Chief Rum]

This is much belated, but...

...the stag of House Baratheon of Storm's End no longer flies above King's Landing. It appears that the official emmissary of King Renly has left House Lannister and returned to Storm's End.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

A minor but key rule change, which I think is best for the game...

Before, I allowed for an Enemy of the Realm's honor to be cleaned up by the dishonored Lord giving his gold to the poor, and the liege matching it.

I have come to realize that this is very open to manipulation as is. So I am instituting a 20000 gold minimum to be given to the poor to clean up a dishonored Lord's status with the realm.

The ideal would be for 10000 gold to come from the Lord and a matching 10000 gold to come from the new liege. However, many Lords may not have this money. The "acquiring liege" may choose to cover the difference. So let's say a Lord whom has fled has only 5000 gold. His new liege would put in 15000 gold to cover the difference for the fled Lord to clean up his honor.

A rich Lord does not have the option of paying all 20000 gold to clean his honor up. Any King choosing to take on such a Lord will need to contribute at minimum 10000 gold for his rehabilitation.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Is this amount based upon the amount of gold that the bannerman has at the time they flee, or the amount of gold they have at the time they are captured by a potential liege? This seems to be an important point if there is potential for different amounts as time passes.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Is this amount based upon the amount of gold that the bannerman has at the time they flee, or the amount of gold they have at the time they are captured by a potential liege? This seems to be an important point if there is potential for different amounts as time passes.

Captured. I think that's in the (admittedly enormous) rules.

[Coffee Warlord]

Tywin results coming?

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Tywin results coming?

I hope so.

[Coffee Warlord]

So does I think every freakin' player.

[Chief Rum]

The news rockets from tower to tower, stunning everyone who hears it. Can it be? Can perhaps the most powerful and feared Lord of the Realm be on the run? Yes!

Tywin Lannister has chosen to Flee his majesty's justice!

King Joffrey Baratheon has lost a Hand as well as a grandfather, and the tithing to Casterly Rock as well, although much of Tywin's wealth and power transfers to Joffrey in his absence.

Tywin Lannister is now on the loose, without a faction and an Enemy of the Realm. He may be targeted for capture.

[hoopsguy]

The lack of ravens at Casterly Rock led me to believe otherwise.

[Autumn]

I didn't expect anything different. If Joffrey is anything like his grandfather, he would know he had to have his grandfather's head. Tywin can live longer, perhaps, in other King's court.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

King Joffrey Baratheon has lost a Hand as well as a grandfather.

Technically, I believe I'm still his grandfather. Although I'm not sure about my status on his Christmas card list at this point.

[Narcizo]

I find that to be ... disappointing, father.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

King Joffrey Baratheon has lost a Hand as well as a grandfather,

(ooc Spoiler for season three/some book or other.

Spoiler

I thought that was Jaime

)

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

(ooc Spoiler for season three/some book or other.

Spoiler

I thought that was Jaime

)

Heh heh

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

The 1050 men captured along with Clegane have dispersed back to their homes, now without a lord.

The 600 gold Clegane had in his treasury has gone into the treasury of House Baratheon of Dragonstone.

The title to Clegane's Keep is now under demesne of King Joffrey Baratheon, head of House Lannister.

Clegane had no ships under his control.

As a reminder for those who might seek to capture me - the title to Casterly Rock holds considerably more value than that of Clegane's Keep. I also have a greater force and greater wealth than Clegane.

If someone wishes to put me to the sword, bring a big army.

If someone wishes to bring me into their fold, it would likely be beneficial to both sides for us to work out an arrangement rather than following the capture/kneel two-step.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I find that to be ... disappointing, father.

Truth be told, so do I. My preference would have been to continue supporting Joffrey. I think he has the opportunity to be a more just and fair ruler than his blackheart reputation would suggest.

However, there is information that you are not privy to that made the departure almost mandated on both sides.

[Narcizo]

I imagine the Lannister camp will be awfully quiet from now on. Looks as though Jamie will have to be Hand, so there is no cause to talk outside of private council.

If Jamie or Joffrey wish to discuss the situation they can send me a raven today. But in order to get a reply the raven would have to be dispatched quickly. I would not take any precipitous action before seeing the day out though.

[Chief Rum]

Word is that several large groups of men bearing different pennants are all tearing up the countryside in their efforts to track down The Lannister and his army.

[Coffee Warlord]

Gee. How. Shocking.

[Chief Rum]

I am going to step away to do some work and get lunch, and give any Kings out there a chance to react to this news.

I will return in two to three hours, and depending on how things go up to then, something might or might not be happening.