The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

[Mantle2600]

Originally Posted by korme

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but a pretty quick way to level up is smithing. With just one leather strap and iron ingot, you can make an iron dagger. So if you go to a warmaiden and buy all the leather and iron ingot you can, turn the leather into strips and make as many daggers as possible. My roommate leveled up to 100 in smithing in just a couple hours.

And if you use enchanting on them using banish, you could sell those puppies for a grand each and level up your speechcraft and enchanting skills.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mantle2600

And if you use enchanting on them using banish, you could sell those puppies for a grand each and level up your speechcraft and enchanting skills.

Y'know, now that it's come up in the thread, I've never once seen anything enchanted with "banish" in my game (40+ hours in). Didn't even know it existed until it was mentioned up the thread a few posts.

[chinaski]

Just had back too back dragon fights, haven't seen that before. woooo!

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Y'know, now that it's come up in the thread, I've never once seen anything enchanted with "banish" in my game (40+ hours in). Didn't even know it existed until it was mentioned up the thread a few posts.

I'm over 84 hours (split between two characters) in and have only seen a weapon with Banish once, so I think it's safe to say that they are pretty rare.

[Dreghorn2]

This is my first exposure to the series and i am enjoying the heck out of this game.

Suffering restartitis though, LVL 18 with first character (warrior mage) but had my perks all over the map and rerolled.

LVL 20 with my 2nd (assassin) but quit after power leveling some crafting skills that i think were simply going to make the game too easy.

LVL 4 with my new character (archery thief wood elf) who i will try to 'play' sensibly within how i think the game is designed to operate. Also upped the difficulty level after discovering you could actually do that.

The game is huge and very deep, well done to the designers there is no question i will be getting my moneys worth here.

[DougW]

Bummin ... .

I had a 'main char' - Wood Elf Archer, which I was around L25 on. I am a compulsive "Quick Saver", so every now and again, i'll go through and delete a bunch of the auto saves. I kept 2 files .
1) My current Quick Save
2) The save I made right after the beginning carriage ride (so if I wanna make a new char, I can skip that part)

Then, I decided I wanted a break from my Archer, and see what this magic was all about. Made a mage, played a little while .. AND QUICK SAVED by habit. As soon as my finger released the button, I knew what I had did.

The "main" is gone .

Aaargh. So, back to gettin the guy caught up. I changed him a little, cuz honest i wasn't happy being an elf anyway. So, I made a Nord, and altered his stats & racial ability to math the elf. Get the starting stats I want, with the race I want. I don't even feel like I cheated, and can easily whip that into his "lore".

Long story short ... The games endless quests system better be good, because after re-rolling, I'm not impressed with the games replayability.

[mckerney]

Ugh, sorry to hear.

TES V Savegame Manager at Skyrim Nexus - Skyrim Mods and community

There is a save game manager for anyone using multiple characters wanting to avoid overwriting or deleting a characters save.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

All right, I think I need those hints. I followed the map to what seems to be the right place but I didn't find anything. I don't have a shovel either, in case it's buried.

Hint 1: You don't have to use a shovel, but it is inside something on the ground, something big that you normally would not be able to get into, but this one you can.

[BYU 14]

Kind of curious what approaches everyone is taking towards the impending civil war in the game? Are you joining Stormcloak, the Imperials or taking a wait and see approach for now?

I have both quests in my log and have taken the first step of joining the Stormcloak rebellion, but want to let the game develop more before I make my final choice.

[Izulde]

I have the option to join both, but I'm not decided yet. I'll probably end up joining the Legion though, because I'm sick of all these racist Nords hating on my Dark Elf self.

[Big Fo]

I talked to the Stormcloak leader and was given some of their gear but haven't actually started that quest line.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Hint 1: You don't have to use a shovel, but it is inside something on the ground, something big that you normally would not be able to get into, but this one you can.

Hint #2: it is an anus

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I researched the black soul gems, and apparently they contain/release the same amount of power, but they only come from humanoids, whereas regular soul gems apparently only hold the soul of creatures (who knew? I never even noticed that you couldn't suck up humanoids on my own).

That's canon from Oblivion as far as I know.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

Hint #2: it is an anus

Shit, this game is deep.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Shit, this game is deep.

So is the anus.

[SackAttack]

Offhand, at least some named enemies do respawn.

Spoiler

I had a quest in Markarth to kill the spider Nimhe, and in so doing, found a journal thingie on a dead guy. The alchemist wanted me to try and find his notes, and when I went back into the excavation site, Nimhe was alive, well, and waiting for the rematch.

[frnk55]

Do anyone of you guys take a companion with ya? At first I had no interest taking someone with me but now it seems like I'm getting my butt kicked everywhere I go.

[RainMaker]

I don't know how I'd survive without one. I have the warrior lady from Riften (can't think of her name) and she has been a ton of help, especially against dragons. They also come in real handy for carrying stuff. Dragon bones and scales are real heavy so I always dump them off on my companion.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by frnk55

Do anyone of you guys take a companion with ya? At first I had no interest taking someone with me but now it seems like I'm getting my butt kicked everywhere I go.

I keep my housecarl with me about 90-95 percent of the time. Mostly for pack mule purposes rather than combat.

[Grover]

One note... followers do not level. They stay at whatever level you were at when you attained them. Lydia gets pretty useless aside from being a pack mule after awhile.

[frnk55]

Thx for the replies. Never thought about having them carry stuff for ya. I'm always at my weight limit. Off to get one.

[hawk4669]

Originally Posted by Grover

One note... followers do not level. They stay at whatever level you were at when you attained them. Lydia gets pretty useless aside from being a pack mule after awhile.

The Prima Strategy Guide says:

"Levels: Most followers automatically level up when you do, so there's no need to worry about a follower 'falling behind' if you go off and adventure on your own, or want to work with someone else for a while."

[Grover]

From a Skyrim wiki:

"No they do not level with you, they remain the same level they were when you discovered the area they are in. Lydia/Faendal will be the weakest companions, but if you wait until you've leveled to max and then hire some of the optional followers they will be scaled to whatever you are. A level 81 follower is possible, who can easily tank Giants/Dragons/Mammoth's."

Through my experience, they do not get stronger. Lydia is at the exact same spot she was when I acquired her at level 5. Regardless of what gear I throw on her, she is easily defeated now that I'm level 18.

[TroyF]

I'm at around level 26 or so and I've never used a follower outside of when it's required. Without getting into spoilers, I found some things in Skyrim that got carrying capacity to 485. Even as a packrat, I'm not having a lot of storage problems. Now selling the stuff off? Damn, that sucks hopping from town to town.

I need to get up to level 75 so I can used the co ownership shopekeeper perk for all the vendors in Whiterun. (as it stands you can offload about 4,500 worth of stuff at one shot. But some of the expensive stuff I'm starting to find is a real pain in the ass to offload.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Grover

From a Skyrim wiki:

"No they do not level with you, they remain the same level they were when you discovered the area they are in. Lydia/Faendal will be the weakest companions, but if you wait until you've leveled to max and then hire some of the optional followers they will be scaled to whatever you are. A level 81 follower is possible, who can easily tank Giants/Dragons/Mammoth's."

Through my experience, they do not get stronger. Lydia is at the exact same spot she was when I acquired her at level 5. Regardless of what gear I throw on her, she is easily defeated now that I'm level 18.

Interestingly, she's still trooping right along for me as I close in on 24. She helped me take down a dragon last night. That was also the same point at which I discovered, offhand, that while the fact of a dragon spawning does not seem to change when you reload, the *type* of dragon that spawns won't necessarily be the same. A blood dragon killed me (although she survived), and on the reload, it was a vanilla dragon.

[Grover]

Maybe it's a PC bug.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Morrowind was one of the worst games I had ever played (horrible, ugly, empty world) yet I went ahead and played Oblivion. I can't say that it was worse but it certainly was in the bottom 10 of all games played. I think I learned my lesson and will leave Elder Scrolls to those that think that is something worth playing.

Bucc, for what it's worth...

I never could get into Morrowind.
I hate Oblivion. It's an empty, vapid word wrapped with a lousy story.
I really liked FO3, especially with a couple of mods and the DLC that actually gave us a decent ending.

After pouring 80 hours into Skyrim over the last 9 days, there's no doubt in my mind that Skyrim is one of the best RPGs I've ever played (stretching back to Wizardry 1) and easily my GOTY. If you have the same general opinions of the games above, I'll explain the (sometimes subtle) differences between Oblivion and Skyrim and why those made such a tremendous difference in overall gameplay quality.

[Blackadar]

Well, after eighty hours, I've finished Skyrim. I'm using the term "finished" very loosely, with dozens of quests unfinished, areas unexplored, many talents/shouts/spells entirely untested and my character "only" level 44. Quest-lines like the Mage's College, the Dark Brotherhood and the Thieves Guild aren't close to being completed. But I think I'm putting my two-handed Nord warrior to rest. After all, he's completed both the main quest line and freed his homeland.

When you think about it, that's entirely absurd...but in a good way. It's hard to imagine that there's that much content unseen and undone in a game after 80 hours of playing. There's really two main quests (dragons, war) and then there's so many other quests that the content just keeps on coming.

That's all content worth doing, because Skyrim is one of the best RPGs of all time. Considering that I've never liked any of the Elder Scrolls games until now and I tend to prefer Bioware's story-driven RPGs more, I'm astonished how good this game really is. There's a great mix of self-exploration and story driven content. The story-driven content isn't as epic as you'd find in U7, ME2 or BG, but it's better-than-average. Where the game really shines is combining that content into perhaps the best open world ever seen in a RPG along with the dynamic quest generator that helps make the world feel alive. When the occasion arises that these come together, the game surpasses all expectations.

For instance, I had to go steal something for a quest. Breaking into the house was going to be difficult with all the guards around. As I'm sneaking around trying to find a way in, a dragon attacked. Using the commotion to my advantage, I slipped around the dragon and the guards attacking it to complete my mission. It wasn't scripted, but it was a very fulfilling RPG experience.

The random dungeons were well crafted and almost always visually stimulating. Not every one told a story, but I was always pleased at the chance to go explore yet another cave of Skyrim. Heck, I stumbled on some great content just scaling mountains and coming face-to-face with a dragon or other epic creature.

I had a problem with the game crashing...about once an hour it'd just shut down. But given that when it did I was able to restart in a matter of seconds, the annoyance was minimal. I have a sneaky suspicion that the graphics aren't super-awesome on a top PC, but I couldn't have been more pleased with the overall performance and on my 4 year old rig. Given what I'm running, I was concerned the game wouldn't run well at all. Instead, I was blown away by the spectacular visuals and was pleased with the sound as well.

It's the mark of a great RPG that as soon as I'm done I want to replay it. I did that with Ultima 7. I instantly replayed PS:T. BG2, ME2, KOTOR...all were replayed. In this case, I'll probably load a couple of mods (night sky, texture enhancements) and start again, this time with a dangerous assassin who stands to lose big-time if the Empire can't keep control of Skyrim...

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Grover

From a Skyrim wiki:

"No they do not level with you, they remain the same level they were when you discovered the area they are in. Lydia/Faendal will be the weakest companions, but if you wait until you've leveled to max and then hire some of the optional followers they will be scaled to whatever you are. A level 81 follower is possible, who can easily tank Giants/Dragons/Mammoth's."

Through my experience, they do not get stronger. Lydia is at the exact same spot she was when I acquired her at level 5. Regardless of what gear I throw on her, she is easily defeated now that I'm level 18.

I trust the Wiki over the strategy guide typically. From the next line of the USEP.net wiki it looks like you should be able to cause your followers to level.

If you have an attachment to a certain follower and wish to continue to use him or her after he or she has become obsolete, you can update his or her stats by dismissing the companion, then opening the console, clicking the follower in question, typing "disable" and then typing "enable" without the quotation marks, then ask them to rejoin. The follower's inventory will remain unaffected, but his or her stats will all be updated to match the player's current level.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Bucc, for what it's worth...

I never could get into Morrowind.
I hate Oblivion. It's an empty, vapid word wrapped with a lousy story.
I really liked FO3, especially with a couple of mods and the DLC that actually gave us a decent ending.

After pouring 80 hours into Skyrim over the last 9 days, there's no doubt in my mind that Skyrim is one of the best RPGs I've ever played (stretching back to Wizardry 1) and easily my GOTY. If you have the same general opinions of the games above, I'll explain the (sometimes subtle) differences between Oblivion and Skyrim and why those made such a tremendous difference in overall gameplay quality.

Thank you. I'll put together my thoughts on specifically why I hated both those previous games and see how Skyrim could be different. Since Risen 2 won't be out till next year, my boys and I are looking for a game to play this Christmas.

[Drake]

A moment of silence for Aela the Huntress, late wife of the Dovakin.

Apparently, the civil war in Skyrim split the household when the late wife decided (without informing her husband) to defend Whiterun from the Stormcloak invasion. The Dovakin, a known Stormcloak supporter, was under the impression that he had left the little woman at home in Riften making sandwiches.

You can imagine his surprise when he personally cut her down before the gates of Whiterun.

On a positive note, she had the entire contents of her store on her, which should ease the short-term financial pressures of the now single income household.

When reached for comment, the Dovakin remarked, "She's not dead. I've got her soul in this gem right here in my pocket. I'll probably use her to enchant a battle axe. Ye Gods, is the air thick with metaphor, or is it just me?"

[DaddyTorgo]

This game is sweet!

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Thank you. I'll put together my thoughts on specifically why I hated both those previous games and see how Skyrim could be different. Since Risen 2 won't be out till next year, my boys and I are looking for a game to play this Christmas.

Cool, because it's hard to pinpoint the changes between Oblivion and Skyrim without addressing the specifics. Off the top of my head, here's some that made all the difference in the world to me between the two games. These are in no particular order, though the top ones are probably more important.

1. Oblivion never felt like a world, but more like a few areas broken up with miles of bland computer-generated terrain. After a few hours with Oblivion, I was already tired of the world because of the "sameness". The dungeons were even worse, with the same 3 dungeons being repeated over and over again. It was large, but it was not engaging or rewarding. For a game predicated on having a beautiful, open world, that's the kiss of death right there. If a player doesn't feel rewarded by exploration, there is no game.

Skyrim feels like a contiguous, hand-crafted, beautiful world. I really never got tired of exploring it and was continually rewarded by that exploration. Caves and dungeons were consistently fun, engaging and different. It was awesome just walking along the road at night, watching the moon rise up or the weather close in to a blinding blizzard. Exploration wasn't *always* awesome - there were some disappointments - but it usually was excellent. As I said before, I believe Skyrim is the best open world I've ever played in a MMO. Considering my favorite before Skyrim was the brilliant world of Ultima 7, that's massively high praise from me.

2. Oblivion's quests generally sucked. The main quest wasn't compelling and most of the side quests were bland. The NPCs were shells and often it was just a pain trying to find them, especially in that bloated main city.

The tighter cities of Skyrim make it easier to find quest NPCs. When you do, the quests are generally more rewarding. There's still a ton of "fetch this" quests, but many of them are pretty good. There's really two main quest-lines and while they're not as engaging as Bioware's epic story-driven RPGs, they're still pretty good. So unlike Oblivion, I'd wander for a while in Skyrim and then I'd polish off some quests. And there's plenty of engaging off-quests that also help keep you entertained.

I still prefer Bioware's story-telling method to Bethesda's way. Bioware crafts an epic story with wonderful twists and turns. In Bethesda's game, you ARE the story in many ways. But this is the first Elder Scrolls game where I thought there was *enough* of a story so I only had to fill in the details and not make the whole damn thing up as I went.

3. The character advancement system has changed for the better. They still have the same basics, but the constellations (essentially the Fallout 3 "perks") in Skyrim lend themselves to some great class customization and a fair amount of replayability. While I never really liked Oblivions character scheme, the one in Skyrim feels pretty natural.

4. Better voice acting and theming generally all-around. I never got a feel for the world of Oblivion and consequently I didn't give much of a shit about it. I really got a feel for the Nordic world of Skyrim and I like it, so I ultimately cared what happened to it. That made a big difference.

5. The auto-mob leveling in Skyrim felt much more natural than it did in Oblivion. I wasn't finding too many bandits with top notch weapons. The economy is still a joke, but it's simply not as obvious of a deficiency in Skyrim.

6. It seemed that Oblivion's "dynamic" gameplay was limited to watching the odd wolf chase down a rabbit. In Skyrim, you will see some non-scripted moments that become very epic. Read my post above (the one with a screenshot of my character) and you'll see what I mean. There were 3 or 4 moments of "did that just fucking happen?" in Skyrim and I can't wait to experience a few more of those.

7. Skyrim runs far better, even on the same rig.

8. The interface is better, but still not good.

9. The 3rd person camera is better and actually usable.

Also, did you play Fallout 3? If so, what were your impressions of that game?

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Drake

A moment of silence for Aela the Huntress, late wife of the Dovakin.

Apparently, the civil war in Skyrim split the household when the late wife decided (without informing her husband) to defend Whiterun from the Stormcloak invasion. The Dovakin, a known Stormcloak supporter, was under the impression that he had left the little woman at home in Riften making sandwiches.

You can imagine his surprise when he personally cut her down before the gates of Whiterun.

On a positive note, she had the entire contents of her store on her, which should ease the short-term financial pressures of the now single income household.

When reached for comment, the Dovakin remarked, "She's not dead. I've got her soul in this gem right here in my pocket. I'll probably use her to enchant a battle axe. Ye Gods, is the air thick with metaphor, or is it just me?"

Heh, we picked the same chick...I usually don't have a thing for hairy girls either.

I finally had to leave her at home. I kept killing her when she'd get in the way of my sword or she'd screw up my stealth. But then she turned out to be very handy, since she had the shop (free money! easy selling of stuff!). I hired on an elf chick to be my pack mule while Aela led the good life in Solitude.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Bucc, for what it's worth...

I never could get into Morrowind.
I hate Oblivion. It's an empty, vapid word wrapped with a lousy story.
I really liked FO3, especially with a couple of mods and the DLC that actually gave us a decent ending.

After pouring 80 hours into Skyrim over the last 9 days, there's no doubt in my mind that Skyrim is one of the best RPGs I've ever played (stretching back to Wizardry 1) and easily my GOTY. If you have the same general opinions of the games above, I'll explain the (sometimes subtle) differences between Oblivion and Skyrim and why those made such a tremendous difference in overall gameplay quality.

Ok, help me decide whether this game is for me or not.

First, I'm much more into action RPG as oppose to character RPG. I don't roleplay nor do I care much for the story in any RPG games. My interest has always been to take a person and build him into someone strong, however I desire to put the points into. For most games, I prefer to learn to become a mage since I don't like swordfighting or close combat that much. But if I recall from the previous games, you start out by choosing what the person will become but still has nothing at first. That's ok, I can accept that.

Instead of the story that I care about, I play these type of games solely for the quests and explorations. There are many quests that advance the story and that's cool, I just want to solve and accomplish the quests so I can get the points to use. One of my criticisms of all RPG-like games is that somewhere around the halfway point (or a little beyond), one is already strong enough and then it becomes busywork. But that's ok too.

Ok, specifically about Morrowind. After getting into Gothic (and a few other like games at the time), I found Morrowind's world to be the ugliest and emptiest world I could possibly imagine. For example, I recall going north out of one of the big cities where you have find a valley. It was quite a long ways but along the rocky, boring paths, there were absolutely nothing to pick up, nothing to look at and almost nothing to do (e.g., kill creatures for points). Other paths were like that too. The city had stuff to do but those weren't too interesting, if I recall. I quit after going on another long quest over very ugly, boring and empty terrain (beyond the opening harbortown). It's been a long time, I may be mixing up games.

With Obliviion, I reached the top of the mage level (completing all of the mage quests) and went into the first big portal. While the world was not ugly, it was still rather monotenous and empty. In Gothic 2 and 3, we had a great variety of geography and landscapes that made being in the world fascinating. I recall after leaving the opening castle, making my way to the first city (sorry that I don't know any of the names). Then having to go south quite a way. Lots of hills, forests, creeks but almost nothing to pick up and very little to fight. They made a fairly nice world but forgot to populate it with items and creatures. Very boring.

The second criticism was utter lack of challenge on the missions. In one of the latter mage quests, I was in the city on the coast. I was given an important quest that would pretty much put me close to the top. I thought this would be a hard one. Nope, just outside of town the trail led up a side of a mountain, fought off 1 or 2 things (creatures or bad guys, I forget) and got the important artifact. How lame is that? Not only quick but there were nothing to it. I like quests where you have to chain together 4-5 different things (not doing the same thing 4-5 times).

I guess my main criticism is that I hate dungeons. Oblivion was filled with these fucking things and most of them followed the exact same layout. The other ones were just a bigger variation of all of the other dungeons. None of them were interesting or fun, just a tedious crawl and there were too many of them.

By the way, I quit in the first big portal because while I didn't have any problems (I was quite strong), it was very tedious and I didn't see the point anymore.

In Morrowind, they gave you a large empty, ugly world where all of the action took place in the cities. In Oblivion, they gave you a large empty world where all of the action took place in the towns and dungeons. I know you can't escape having caves, tunnels or underground areas but they should be kept at a minimum. Most of the fighting should take place in the natural world for it to be fun for me. The world (the hills, forests, meadows, deserts, mountains, swamps, beaches, canyons, etc.) should be filled with things to pick up (that are useful) and creatures/bad guys to fight. And such world should be changing. Not just respawning but going back out to meet/fight a new group of people over the same ground.

So, is Skyrim more of the same type of world/action as Morrowind/Oblivion or has it changed to be more like Gothic/Risen/RDR/2Worlds?

[Izulde]

Funny. One of my friends has her 360 lock up on her and now my PS3 locked up on me on the same night. First time that's happened to me with Skyrim.

[Qwikshot]

The PS3 does slow down over time. I just save and shutdown and restart and back to normal.

Level 37 now. I really need to upgrade perks in one handed and armor. Found an ebony armor (awarded actually) that is quiet, and poisons people who get up too close, but I hate that it emits black smoke (aura) that skews my arrow shots over time.

Deathlords not so tough anymore, Briarheart Forsworn however are my new nemesis.

[Apathetic Lurker]

I've been lucky so far.....Only one crash in about 35 hours

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Ok, help me decide whether this game is for me or not.

I'll do my best!

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

First, I'm much more into action RPG as oppose to character RPG. I don't roleplay nor do I care much for the story in any RPG games. My interest has always been to take a person and build him into someone strong, however I desire to put the points into. For most games, I prefer to learn to become a mage since I don't like swordfighting or close combat that much. But if I recall from the previous games, you start out by choosing what the person will become but still has nothing at first. That's ok, I can accept that.

You have some pretty free-form character development in this game. If you want to become a mage, using your mage skills ramps up the effectiveness of those skills. The game doesn't level your character in a traditional way - it's the leveling of your skills that drives your overall character level. When you do level, you can add a bit to either your health, stamina or magic. But the real development comes with a perk point (you get one each level), that allows you to really drive your specialization. For example, a perk might add 20% to all your spells or make spells of a particular type cost only half the mana.

Most of this is the character development from prior Elder Scrolls games, yet it feels less "gamey" and the perks really help shape your character the way you want to play the game.

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Instead of the story that I care about, I play these type of games solely for the quests and explorations. There are many quests that advance the story and that's cool, I just want to solve and accomplish the quests so I can get the points to use. One of my criticisms of all RPG-like games is that somewhere around the halfway point (or a little beyond), one is already strong enough and then it becomes busywork. But that's ok too.

The Elder Scrolls games have never been strong on story. Bioware tells a story in their games. In Bethesda games, you ARE the story. But the Bethesda games are heavy on exploration and quests. The world is open, huge and interesting.

Some of the quests feel like busywork in this game too, but it's really up to you whether or not you want to do them.

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Ok, specifically about Morrowind. After getting into Gothic (and a few other like games at the time), I found Morrowind's world to be the ugliest and emptiest world I could possibly imagine. For example, I recall going north out of one of the big cities where you have find a valley. It was quite a long ways but along the rocky, boring paths, there were absolutely nothing to pick up, nothing to look at and almost nothing to do (e.g., kill creatures for points). Other paths were like that too. The city had stuff to do but those weren't too interesting, if I recall. I quit after going on another long quest over very ugly, boring and empty terrain (beyond the opening harbortown). It's been a long time, I may be mixing up games.

With Obliviion, I reached the top of the mage level (completing all of the mage quests) and went into the first big portal. While the world was not ugly, it was still rather monotenous and empty. In Gothic 2 and 3, we had a great variety of geography and landscapes that made being in the world fascinating. I recall after leaving the opening castle, making my way to the first city (sorry that I don't know any of the names). Then having to go south quite a way. Lots of hills, forests, creeks but almost nothing to pick up and very little to fight. They made a fairly nice world but forgot to populate it with items and creatures. Very boring.

I can't speak very well for Morrowind, but from what I remember I too think the world was kind of ugly and boring.

I remember Oblivion's world very well, and I entirely agree with you - the world was empty and devoid of personality. It wasn't well populated with monsters and was largely computer generated, lending a "sameness" to all the areas.

Skyrim's world has been hand-crafted and packed with interesting stuff. You're not going to be attacked every 5 yards, but there's almost always a beautiful vista to view, a pack of giants to attack, a cave to explore or the ruins of an old castle on the horizon. The world is absolutely chock full of stuff and the different areas are quite distinctive.

It's funny that you mention Gothic 2 & 3 as games you like, because they're often compared to the Elder Scrolls games. They're definitely RPG-grognard games rather than action RPGs. Others may disagree, but I think Skyrim is probably the closest to a Gothic-style game than any other Elder Scrolls game.

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

The second criticism was utter lack of challenge on the missions. In one of the latter mage quests, I was in the city on the coast. I was given an important quest that would pretty much put me close to the top. I thought this would be a hard one. Nope, just outside of town the trail led up a side of a mountain, fought off 1 or 2 things (creatures or bad guys, I forget) and got the important artifact. How lame is that? Not only quick but there were nothing to it. I like quests where you have to chain together 4-5 different things (not doing the same thing 4-5 times).

The challenge varies on the various Skyrim quests, but rarely did I feel that an important quest was a cakewalk. Well, that was until my character became a bit overpowered, but by then I was close to done so I didn't increase the difficulty level.

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I guess my main criticism is that I hate dungeons. Oblivion was filled with these fucking things and most of them followed the exact same layout. The other ones were just a bigger variation of all of the other dungeons. None of them were interesting or fun, just a tedious crawl and there were too many of them.

By the way, I quit in the first big portal because while I didn't have any problems (I was quite strong), it was very tedious and I didn't see the point anymore.

Yeah, I quit Oblivion for many of the same reasons. Tedious, pointless...etc.

I like dungeons, but the cookie-cutter aspect of Oblivion's dungeons removed all desire to go explore them. Every dungeon in Skyrim is different, though the castles are a bit "samey". While they may use some of the same tiles in various dungeons, I probably explored 30-40 of them and they were almost all different and generally interesting. Some were downright breathtaking in beauty or design. I love the designers of Skyrim's dungeons because they didn't make me backtrack all the way through the dungeon when I was done! There was always a well-hidden shortcut out...sometimes it's the little things that make a difference.

If you don't like caves/dungeons/ruined castles to explore, then you may not like Skyrim. If you don't like them because they're not rewarding to explore (like those in Oblivion), you'll probably feel rewarded by those in Skyrim.

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

In Morrowind, they gave you a large empty, ugly world where all of the action took place in the cities. In Oblivion, they gave you a large empty world where all of the action took place in the towns and dungeons. I know you can't escape having caves, tunnels or underground areas but they should be kept at a minimum. Most of the fighting should take place in the natural world for it to be fun for me. The world (the hills, forests, meadows, deserts, mountains, swamps, beaches, canyons, etc.) should be filled with things to pick up (that are useful) and creatures/bad guys to fight. And such world should be changing. Not just respawning but going back out to meet/fight a new group of people over the same ground.

There's lots of fighting both below and above ground in Skyrim. Most of the quests are going to require you to go underground, but some of the most fun/epic battles (dragons, giants, mammoths) take place in the "natural" world.

To give you an idea on how many dungeons there are in Skyrim, there's an achievement for exploring 50 of 'em. So there are a bunch. While that may seem like a lot, it'd probably take you a solid two hours to run from one side of the world to the other (the world is pretty much a big circle). This is one big world, so you're not tripping over a cave every two feet or anything like that.

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

So, is Skyrim more of the same type of world/action as Morrowind/Oblivion or has it changed to be more like Gothic/Risen/RDR/2Worlds?

I tend to feel the Gothic/Risen series is generally close kin with the Elder Scrolls series, so I'm not sure I can answer your final question.

Some of the same stuff you didn't like about Oblivion/Morrowind is some of the same stuff that I didn't like. To me, the world may be big and open, but it was empty and pointless. And in an open game like the Elder Scrolls games, if you don't care about the world you're in, why bother being in it? After all, what's the use of putting up with poorly written fetch-quests to yet another cookie-cutter dungeon when you don't give a rat's ass about the world as a whole?

After 80 hours in Skyrim, I never got that feeling. I want to explore around the next bend, see what was over the next mountain range, to hope that the blizzard would break for a moment so I could scan the horizon for my next exploration target. Add that to more compelling quests and some better character improvements and I quickly became engaged by Skyrim.

To wrap it up, I think much of what you didn't like about the previous games has been changed to make a major difference. At least, it did for me. Remember, I'm a hater of Morrowind and Oblivion yet I think Skyrim is pretty damn brilliant. There's another guy at my office who doesn't play many RPG games (he likes action games) and he's been sucked into Skyrim for 70 hours so far and is also loving it.

Maybe someone else can chime in too?

[Qwikshot]

Well, I think in Skyrim you are never going to be bored. There is always something to do, and if you do go out into the wilderness you have to be prepared.

I was blown away by Morrowind, perhaps it was ugly but it was fascinating to me simply because it was so alien from D&D.

That said, Skyrim is better.

Skyrim can be overwhelming, you really are in freeform here. I mean right from the beginning you make choices not really knowing much about the world, people, or anything. So you don't know what the impact is.

The world is pretty active, I mean, one cool thing I saw was I was able to stalk a frostbite spider that was just wandering the road above Morgal, the thing is, I think it was scripted. I could have just tracked it with sneak (boosting my sneak skills) or killed it outright, or just left it alone...it had no bearing on the story, but it was there.

I've seen wolves chase rabbits. Foxes wander into the winterscapes. Bears or saber cats seem to loom in more wild areas. Of course, the occasional traveler, brigand or assassin wanders out (if you hit a certain level you get jumped by a fanatic). Pick a direction and go and you'll find a ruin, castle, town, bandit hideout, dwarven ruin, magic stones, homes, abandoned homes or fortresses.

There are stories within stories, I ventured upon a raiden caravan, two dead. A diary was on the woman, it stated she was not excited at the prospect, and tried to talk her husband out of the merchant business, but agreed to join him because she did not want him to go alone. You can bet your bottom dollar I found the raiders camp just northward and executed every last bugger there.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Stuff

I generally agree with you, but I think you missed the boat on a couple of things.

Of all the Elder Scrolls games, I think Skyrim is the most structured. While the game is certainly freeform in nature, the two "main" quests (dragons and the war) help keep those that need it a bit more focused. This is coming from personal experience - I really appreciated having those two main themes/quests present in the entire world. While I could certainly choose to go off and do my own thing for hours or days, I always could come back to those two central pillars. It kept me grounded in the world and gave it more feeling.

The spider probably wasn't scripted. He was probably generated by the radiant quest generator. The radiant questing allows Skyrim to generate quests pretty dynamically and can lead to some really interesting interactions. I've seen bandits get into pitched battles with the forsaken in the wilderness. I once entered a cave to find a party of 7 falmers butchering a bunch of bandits in the most bloody fashion.

Sometimes it gets a bit funny. I exited a cave once and had a guy run up to me. He said, "here, hold this sword". Just then, a bear that he aggroed came up and killed him. I killed the bear. Just as I was finishing slaughtering the bear, another guy came up and said "did you see a guy running this way?" while the dead corpse of the first runner was nearby. Turns out the first runner stole the sword, which I gave back to the 2nd guy. It's not always perfect, but it does keep things interesting.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Of all the Elder Scrolls games, I think Skyrim is the most structured. While the game is certainly freeform in nature, the two "main" quests (dragons and the war) help keep those that need it a bit more focused. This is coming from personal experience - I really appreciated having those two main themes/quests present in the entire world. While I could certainly choose to go off and do my own thing for hours or days, I always could come back to those two central pillars. It kept me grounded in the world and gave it more feeling.

This brings up something that crosses my mind occasionally & I think it's something that influences how I played Oblivion as well as Fallout 3.

I tend to slow play the main storyline in the earlier levels, using the sidequests & random encounters to not only improve my characters skills but also (I think) to help define him for myself. Not just who he is but how he fights, how he approaches dialogue challenges, etc. It's as though I'm trying to give him a life as well as some character before he embarks on heroic quest number one with limited skills & little rational chance for success. It's a way of suspending disbelief perhaps.

I think it would crash & burn with the masses, but I think I'd actually be interested in playing a console game that was structured more along those lines; one where you piddled around improving yourself before not only embarking on the grand mission but before it even really became clear to you (in-game at least) what that grand mission was.

The spider probably wasn't scripted. He was probably generated by the radiant quest generator. The radiant questing allows Skyrim to generate quests pretty dynamically and can lead to some really interesting interactions. I've seen bandits get into pitched battles with the forsaken in the wilderness. I once entered a cave to find a party of 7 falmers butchering a bunch of bandits in the most bloody fashion.

Sometimes it gets a bit funny. I exited a cave once and had a guy run up to me. He said, "here, hold this sword". Just then, a bear that he aggroed came up and killed him. I killed the bear. Just as I was finishing slaughtering the bear, another guy came up and said "did you see a guy running this way?" while the dead corpse of the first runner was nearby. Turns out the first runner stole the sword, which I gave back to the 2nd guy. It's not always perfect, but it does keep things interesting.[/quote]

[Drake]

I just hit level 55 and I've still only done the main quest as far as climbing the 7,000 steps. On the civil war front, I just did the Fort Neugrad mission.

On the other hand, I own all of the houses, am leader of the Companions and the Thieves Guild, and likely two or three missions from the end of the Dark Brotherhood questline and the College of Winterhold line. There are only one or two Daedric quests I'm missing (Hircine and somebody else, don't remember who.)

A big part of that expansion was exploiting the muffle spell to max out illusion, then exploiting the hell out of sneak, lockpicking, smithing, enchanting and alchemy -- alchemy being the hardest by far, but once you're churning out those $1k daggers, that's a hell of a lot of coin for just grabbing all of the stock in the assorted herbalist shops.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Drake

alchemy being the hardest by far

Heh, as was the case with Oblivion, alchemy is my highest leveled skill (along with smithing)

Drives my son crazy, "are you seriously picking flowers while running from a dragon? SERIOUSLY?!?!?"

[Drake]

I'm not normally a huge fan of alchemy. I can never remember to actually use the poisons I make, and tend to remember a slow-healing spell over the instant restore health potion. (Plus, you know, that slow healing spell ramps up my restoration, whereas drinking the potion gains me nothing.)

Like you, though, if I'm not careful I run around snagging just one more Fly Amanatia and before I know it, end up with 50 lbs of ingredients sitting in my inventory and wondering where all the space went.

In Oblivion, alchemy tended to be the last thing I leveled, but I ran across a post/method for exploiting the engine (maybe even linked from here) using the synergy between smithing/enchantment/alchemy to end up with weapons that do something like 6k damage per hit. A normal person, I suppose, would just console command themselves up in a new character to test out the exploit. That feels like cheating to me.

(You'll note my slippery slope: exploiting illusion/sneak/enchantment/smithing/alchemy isn't cheating. Using the console is. I see the inconsistency. I don't mind even the most blatant exploits if I've still got to give tedious hours to it in order to achieve the desired outcome. It feels less like exploiting and more like just practicing until I get really good at something. I can rationalize it, in other words.)

[Peregrine]

One of my best screenshots so far, I think.

[RainMaker]

I don't use the potions all that much. But I do grab ingredients, make potions, and then sell them for gold. Helps build up alchemy and speech.

[Blackadar]

[thesloppy]

I just found the best follower ever: a stray dog. I haven't seen anybody else mention animal followers in the thread yet (you're apparently allowed one in addition to regular companion, and they don't take commands or carry anything), anybody else got one?

Fuck everybody else, it's me and stray dog against the world.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I just found the best follower ever: a stray dog. I haven't seen anybody else mention animal followers in the thread yet (you're apparently allowed one in addition to regular companion, and they don't take commands or carry anything), anybody else got one?

Haven't seen a stray that would follow but I did see where you could buy one as a follower.

I'm already having enough trouble keeping Lydia from getting killed, no way I'd take on the responsibility (and incessant reloads) needed to keep a dog alive.