Werewolf XXXVI: Resident Evil (S.T.A.R.S. Wins! Post #1424)

[spleen1015]

Guys, next time I am gone for about 4 hours, can you spare me the novel when I get back? Sheesh. 5 freaking pages. I'm glad I'm not slow reader.

I am happy to see Lathum turn up Ozwall.

[hoopsguy]

Just be glad you were not gone for four hours during the Necromancer game Although this one is up to a big post count so far ...

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Just be glad you were not gone for four hours during the Necromancer game Although this one is up to a big post count so far ...

Not my fault

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Oh I see what you are saying. I was just saying zombie vs umbrella. We obviously know Lathum wasn't a zombie. I was referencing Cronin as the zombie and you on the same side as Lathum (umbrella)

Ok, I can see how you see that. But really, who are you after? Zombies or Umbrella?

[hoopsguy]

Alan, they do not count. You still have less than 1K posts.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Ok, I can see how you see that. But really, who are you after? Zombies or Umbrella?

Primarily Zombies since its our win condition
Secondarily Umbrella since they are out to kill our roles that will help us find zombies.

So hypothetically you are saying if you were Umbrella you would try to convince us that going after you would cause us more problems long run and bring the zombies closer to their winning condition?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Alan, they do not count. You still have less than 1K posts.

I am going to post 400 baby names in the baby name thread and catch you

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Just be glad you were not gone for four hours during the Necromancer game Although this one is up to a big post count so far ...

good times. good times

[Mr. Wednesday]

Umbrella is in a precarious position right now; they need to take STARS down to win, but they also kinda need to thin the ranks of the zombies a bit too so that the zombies don't win first.

(Not that I mind them having a dilemma on their hands. )

[Alan T]

ahh well bed for me.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Primarily Zombies since its our win condition
Secondarily Umbrella since they are out to kill our roles that will help us find zombies.

So hypothetically you are saying if you were Umbrella you would try to convince us that going after you would cause us more problems long run and bring the zombies closer to their winning condition?

What I am saying is this: If you say cronin is the zombie in the zombie vs umbrella situation... why in the world would you go after me? You are contradicting yourself, how can you not see it.

[Tyrith]

I think killing down another umbrella or two would be really good for us because we can't let them control the vote, they WILL kill us. Once we have them down to a managable number we can keep any remaining identified ones alive as warm bodies so we don't lose. Until then, slaughter away at the evil corporate empire!

[st.cronin]

I am afraid I don't entirely understand the Fouts connection, either. I wish I did. I don't know who I will vote for tomorrow.

[path12]

Just caught up. I actually feel a bit better about Alan than I did -- in my mind I had either Alan or Lathum being bad. Agree that this is great for us, both for ending the nemesis threat and not being a stars.

[st.cronin]

Yeah, I feel better about Alan, too. I don't think this will be much help in us finding a zombie though. Zombies don't know who umbrella is, or vice versa. I'm going to go through the votes tomorrow, though, just to see if there's anything there.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Yeah, I feel better about Alan, too. I don't think this will be much help in us finding a zombie though. Zombies don't know who umbrella is, or vice versa. I'm going to go through the votes tomorrow, though, just to see if there's anything there.

I think he's STARS but his theories are wacked. I just don't know how to prove him wrong, other than dying at the end of a rope.

[Glengoyne]

I'm digging back through today's posts to see if I can improve my trust levels a little bit. I'm leaning a little bit toward Hoops, and to a lesser degree Tyrith and Wednesday. I'm still up for grabs with the other vote getters this afternoon.

Perhaps we can hope for a bit more of an eventful night tonight. I'm again hoping for that glorious clash of night actions to give us something to go on.

[Abe Sargent]

I personally find it scary how often Tyrith and I think alike in WW

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

I personally find it scary how often Tyrith and I think alike in WW

This has come to my attention to. We came in around the same time, it's like we're forever linked in WW spirit. Or maybe it's because I read your column independent of all this. Either way, it's still freaky.

[Chief Rum]

Well, I will probably be heading off to bed soon, and then won't be around again until tomorrow evening (should be before deadline). I still think Alan's theory should be locked at closely, and either st cronin or Fouts considered for the lynch. I would lean st cronin, as I have mentioned, but the theory can be proven one way or the other.

Obviously, this could all change with night actions, but I won't see those until just before the deadline. So I will vote when I return.

[saldana]

chubby, do we get to see the "lucky" vote total or just the standard one....i am gonna guess we dont, as that would turn things into a math exercise instead of a logic one.


i would guess that the other umbrella votes were spread out among cronin, brian and sndvls (i am aware this includes me)....i dont have the time right now, but my biggest suspicions would be for whoever started the brian run as the 3rd candidate....it would have been too obvious to pile on cronin to try and save lathum, so i am thinking they started a 3rd candidate to try and spread things out and make it easier to manuever at the end...fortunately they couldnt because the gap widened out too far.

[Chubby]

Day breaks once again and the fine citizens of Raccoon City descend upon the center of town. With the death of an Umbrella scientist the day before, the town hopes that it was a quiet night...

They would be wrong...

After a headcount it is determined that not one but TWO people are missing. The citizens fan out and begin to search the homes for the missing people.

Their first stop is the home of saldana. The door appears to have been smashed in and the house is a mess. The villagers scour the house for any sign of life before finding saladana's lifeless body in the bathroom. It appears that saldana was getting ready to take a shower and was clubbed in the head with his bottle of Herbal Essences before having his brains sucked out through his nose. At least he smells good...

The coroner quickly looks over the body and finds nothing of importance. Saldana's gun and holster sit hanging on a hook next to the sink.

After viewing that gruesome scene the next cry for help comes from the house of Tyrith. Tyrith's mouth and ears were sown shut with his eyeballs removed. His skull was cracked wide open and there appeared to be brains on a plate sitting besides his dead body. The fork and knife on the plate appeared body and used. Coulnd't the zombies have at least put away their dishes after their meal?

Inside Tyrith's house people find a few odd things. A bottle of serum, a lie detector machine, and a bright light. All look like they had been placed where they were very recently. Tyrith's gun was still in it's holster unused, you'd think people would fight back when attacked...

Day Three ends Friday 11pm EST.

[hoopsguy]

Not surprised at all about Tyrith - was just about positive he had interrogated Cronin on Night 1 based on his posts.

The Zombies are not helping our cause much with their STARS only kills.

[hoopsguy]

They only got one kill on the first night, but two last night.

Thoughts - they probably have three members to take this approah. If they had four they would have had two kills last night (barring a bodyguard block). The alternative theory is that they only had two and went solo with their attacks last night after being a little spooked yesterday. But that doesn't make sense in light of us getting an Umbrella yesterday - there is no hot trail leading to them in plain sight.

[hoopsguy]

Both of the newly dead voted for Bullet on Day 1. Tyrith went with Lathum yesterday and Saldana voted for SnDvls.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

They only got one kill on the first night, but two last night.

Thoughts - they probably have three members to take this approah. If they had four they would have had two kills last night (barring a bodyguard block). The alternative theory is that they only had two and went solo with their attacks last night after being a little spooked yesterday. But that doesn't make sense in light of us getting an Umbrella yesterday - there is no hot trail leading to them in plain sight.

I think this still is consistant with the theory of 3 zombies.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, are you still looking to play Cronin vs Fouts today for the vote? If so then please re-state the case in light of where we stand right now. If not, a simple "no" is fine.

[Mr. Wednesday]

FYI, my availability is going to be somewhat limited today, as I'm going to be spending a lot of time in meetings. I'm hoping to be able to check in after lunch, possibly later afternoon, and evening.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Alan, are you still looking to play Cronin vs Fouts today for the vote? If so then please re-state the case in light of where we stand right now. If not, a simple "no" is fine.

Give me a few minutes. Re-reading everything from Tyrith real quick

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Not surprised at all about Tyrith - was just about positive he had interrogated Cronin on Night 1 based on his posts.

The Zombies are not helping our cause much with their STARS only kills.

Can you show us how you knew this? I didn't see it.

[hoopsguy]

Sure, I'll list a few Tyrith posts from yesterday from my notes:

#471 - lynch of Cronin does not excite him
#516 - rather vote for Fouts than Cronin
#556 - doesn't think Cronin is a bad guy, is annoyed that Cronin self-voted
#587 - asks Cronin what he is going to do
#600 - Cronin's reasoning is sound
#602 - really does not want us to kill Cronin

He moved around on several other players, but had a lower level of certainty on them than he did with Cronin. Which made me believe he was exactly the role he had once I started searching yesterday for someone who might have scanned Cronin Night 1. This was the time that I changed my philosophy for yesterday to not vote for Cronin - can pull up those posts as well if you want me to do this.

Anyways, sucks to lose this STARS role but it vaults Cronin to the top of my trusted list for today. There cannot have been a conversion yet (by rule), so I feel very confident in him today.

[Fouts]

Wow, good catch.

[LoneStarGirl]

Bah....how the hell do they get two kills?

I dont know about my availability today, GE And I are househunting for a couple of hours after work, but i'll be in to put a vote in.

[Fouts]

I am still very suspicious of SnDvls. Unless some damning airtight information comes out, this will be my vote.

vote SnDvls

[Fouts]

Crap, I'm such a newb.

vote SnDvls

[Alan T]

Ok, looked through all of Tyrith's posts. I don't agree with you hoops about Tyrith's opinion of Cronin.

I guess these are the questions I am asking myself:

1) Who did Tyrith view night 1.

2) Can Tyrith's role only say Umbrella vs not Umbrella (Ie: if he gets a zombie will he even know)

3) With tonight being night 3, and the zombies able to start converting, are we wanting to still go after umbrella today, or take a possible chance on a zombie


As for #1, at first I thought you might be right that it was Cronin. I went through all of his posts expecting to see his opinion of Cronin change from day 1 to day 2 indicating additional knowledge of his role. The catch here though is his opinion of Cronin did NOT change. He said the same things day 1 to day 2 about him. The entire time he was consistant about Cronin saying he thought Cronin was pushing ideas and got himself in trouble based on that alone, and just hasnt gotten away from the heat yet. He said the entire time yesterday that his gut feel is Cronin was good but we likely need to kill him at some point. Either Tyrith tried very carefully to mask his opinions so someone that would read day 1 to day 2 for consistancy wouldn't catch on just yet or he chose to view someone other than cronin night 1 with the assumption that Cronin was good.

That took me then to who did I think he viewed.. Im pretty sure he didn't view me, I also think he didn't view Hoops, Fouts or Lathum. So I honestly don't know who he did view. I guess that leads to my second part of the question... would he even know it if he interogated a zombie. Based on his role, it looked like Umbrella only which still wouldnt tell us much about Cronin if my theory about him being a zombie is correct.

I guess then in my mind it leads me to #3 where if we think we feel pretty good that we have an umbrella in our sites (Fouts) do we go after him today to remove the further competition, or do we take a chance with a possible zombie (Cronin) in an effort to hopefully get the infector before night 3?

I personally like the safe play on Fouts, but I'm open to suggestions.

[Fouts]

Alan, I will say this about you - you are consistent. Wrong, but consistent.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I read Tyrith differently than you did then.

Day 1 - he argued along the lines of "we don't want to kill a player for being vocal" and Cronin was in that mix

Day 2 - he argued "anyone but Cronin", and pretty much everyone was in the mix for his vote instead of Cronin

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

I vote we ban cronin from WW if he's going to be so unsporting about this. It's not like everyone was advocating lynching you for the sake of lynching you do, dude. Grow up.

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Honestly, I don't think cronin is a bad guy, I think he's a good guy that made a massive fuck-up yesterday and is unacceptably frustrated because he can't dig himself out of the hole. We can't just narrow beam on him like this, it's not gonna get us anywhere. I'm still advocating lynching him at some point because we're gonna need to look at voting records later, but if we do it now and he comes up good we're resetting the game information wise, just down four good guys.

If you were Tyrith (proven STARS) and you had scanned Cronin the night before and learned he was STARS, then see him self-vote how would you react? Maybe something like this?

[hoopsguy]

Furthermore, if you are Tyrith coming off the Saw game, and had put yourself in a position of doubt after Day 1 while being a good guy, then watched the mob string you up on Day 2, wouldn't you have some sympathy for the guy who is in position to be strung up on Day 2 in this game?

You have the ability to scan him at night and determine what is the right course of action with that vote. If he is a bad guy, nudge them in that direction. Challenge people who defend him, etc. If he is a good guy, do what you can to save him because you still have intense memories of being in that position the game before and not feeling like you had anyone supporting you - other than, perhaps, the guy who is now on the hot seat in Day 2 of this game (Cronin).

Hope I'm remembering the Saw game approrpriately - I'm sure the people who were in it can correct me if I'm less than 100% accurate with the reporting of events.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

If you were Tyrith (proven STARS) and you had scanned Cronin the night before and learned he was STARS, then see him self-vote how would you react? Maybe something like this?

Tyrith could only see Umbrella/non-Umbrella. Why do you imply that he learned Cronin was STARS?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

If you were Tyrith (proven STARS) and you had scanned Cronin the night before and learned he was STARS, then see him self-vote how would you react? Maybe something like this?

I don't think Tyrith was looking for Cronin to be lynched yesterday. But he wasn't on day 1 either.. I think you were missing my point though.. I don't see anything change from Tyrith from day 1 to day 2 which leads me to think that he didn't scan him but more importantly than that, if Cronin is a zombie I doubt Tyrith would have known anyways. His role says he finds Umbrella members. That is a pretty specific role.

Thats what led to my second question.. with it day 3, do we take a chance on someone who seems like a likely zombie with less clues than someone who is likely to be an umbrella just to take a shot at the infector?

[Alan T]

I dont know, my gut tells me both Fouts and St.Cronin aren't stars and it doesn't matter which way we go today. But I'm curious to what people think about something that Fouts did say last night. Even though I'm sure fouts said it for self-preservation, but part of it actually is true..

If we do kill Fouts, and he -IS- umbrella, it helps us. However we are at night 3 and someone likely will be converted.

If we try for Cronin and he -IS- a zombie, its possibly ~33% that he is the infector and no one will get converted.

The odds to me are better to go after Fouts, but maybe risk/reward is better going for Cronin. Hoops its weird to me that you are just glossing over the whole fact Tyrith was scanning for Umbrella and not zombies. its as if you are trying to push that Cronin is now cleared into everyone's minds for some agenda that you have.

[hoopsguy]

Point taken, Fouts. He learned Cronin was non-Umbrella (not conclusively STARS) so he is playing odds here since Cronin can only belong to one opposing faction and not two.

[hoopsguy]

Consider me corrected on the Tyrith scan issue, as it would only clear Cronin of being an Umbrella.

However, going after him in a lynch means you are taking a lower mathematical play than just about anyone else in the game if you accept that Tyrith scanned him.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I dont know, my gut tells me both Fouts and St.Cronin aren't stars and it doesn't matter which way we go today. But I'm curious to what people think about something that Fouts did say last night. Even though I'm sure fouts said it for self-preservation, but part of it actually is true..

If we do kill Fouts, and he -IS- umbrella, it helps us. However we are at night 3 and someone likely will be converted.

If we try for Cronin and he -IS- a zombie, its possibly ~33% that he is the infector and no one will get converted.

The odds to me are better to go after Fouts, but maybe risk/reward is better going for Cronin. Hoops its weird to me that you are just glossing over the whole fact Tyrith was scanning for Umbrella and not zombies. its as if you are trying to push that Cronin is now cleared into everyone's minds for some agenda that you have.

I'm obviously biased about the first part of this post, but I agree about hoops trying to push that cronin is cleared.

Another fishy thing is that cronin threw a fit and saved himself. Lathum threw a fit, didn't save himself, and we all know why now. Do people with important roles get pissy when they are about to die without using them?

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Consider me corrected on the Tyrith scan issue, as it would only clear Cronin of being an Umbrella.

However, going after him in a lynch means you are taking a lower mathematical play than just about anyone else in the game if you accept that Tyrith scanned him.

I'm not sure anyone other than you and Tyrith knew Tyrith was the Interrogator.

[hoopsguy]

I think we continue to try and get the best candidate for the day without worrying about Zombie vs Umbrella. I would greatly prefer to get a zombie, but I do not want to reduce our chances of taking out an opposing player just to try and prevent a conversion.

Lets assume there are 3 zombies and 3 Umbrella for now. I think that is the probable lowest their numbers are at this point in the game. There are 14 people left in the game now. On sheer random, a person who is STARS is going to be approaching 50% likelihood of identifying an opposing faction. But if we want to potentially throw away someone who is linked with Lathum, then the percentage drops to the 25% range.

I'll take the 50% today if choosing between these scenarios. And hope that the Infector is blocked, that the zombies take out an Umbrella, or that some other factors come into play with night actions that give us a bigger edge in days to come. But right now I want to reduce the number of opponents we face.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Consider me corrected on the Tyrith scan issue, as it would only clear Cronin of being an Umbrella.

However, going after him in a lynch means you are taking a lower mathematical play than just about anyone else in the game if you accept that Tyrith scanned him.

Thats the catch, I still disagree with you on the scanning thing. I still don't see much changed from day 1 to day 2. Tyrith had the same approach both days with Cronin.

I am thinking right now that its worth the push on Cronin. We've seen alot of votes on Cronin in the first two days, with the votes yesterday obviously being more meaningful than the first day when Cronin's neck was on the line. If we do lynch Cronin today and he turns up a zombie between yesterday and today we have a good footprint of people to go after possibly. We can always come back and deal with Fouts later I think.

Vote St.Cronin

[hoopsguy]

OK, I guess I'll look for other people's thoughts on Tyrith's Night 1 selection on who to interrogate - does anyone other than Alan think Cronin was not the choice?

Alan, it doesn't help me to trust you when the scenarios that you concoct keep including the wrong people. Bullet on Day 1 (I followed along), Fouts/Cronin standoff for you on Day 2 (I think Cronin is STARS, think there is a higher mathematical likelihood here than any other player in the game at the moment), and continuing down this path on Day 3.