College Football Recruiting (2012 Class) Discussion

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Balldog

This just in, not everything read on internet message boards is true.

If Pat Fitzgerald is saying the coaches met and all agreed there was nothing illegal then I think that has quite a bit of merit.

How dumb would Meyer have to be to start doing violations just after OSU got put on probation?

[mauchow]

FOr the Big 10 coaches to put together a meeting regarding this tells me there might be something more to this. Again, we'll likely never know what it was.

Balldawg, nothing wrong with it.

[DeToxRox]

If I had to guess the issues with Urban stem from over signing because of how close OSU was to their 82 limit (since they are down 3 for the next few years).

[DeToxRox]

A little postmortem on the 2012 class. Regarding DGB:

Other schools that found out they had been cut actually hadn’t been in the race for months. John Beckham decided he didn’t want Dorial to play at one school after he saw a coach slam a headset at the end of the game instead of simply handing it to a waiting assistant.

The coach was Notre Dame’s Brian Kelly, Tracy Beckham said.

That kind of story has popped up a few times over the course of this year.

[DeToxRox]

Also ND fans are really hating Urban Meyer as well. Apparently he has had support staff compile every negative tweet ND players have made about life in South Bend and put them together in a little book to show off to kids who are considering ND and OSU just to show them how miserable life in SB can be.

[bronconick]

I know that Hoke was trying to flip Brionte Dunn from OSU for at least a few weeks leading up to signing day. So it's pretty obvious he doesn't have a problem talking to verbals from other Big Ten schools. If the rest of the conference is going to complain about that, it'll be going back to Ohio State/Michigan and the Little X sooner rather than later.

I hope these guys complaining never interviewed for other jobs while employed. Only an "unethical" company or school would try to pick them off when they're "committed" elsewhere. Idiots.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by bronconick

I know that Hoke was trying to flip Brionte Dunn from OSU for at least a few weeks leading up to signing day. So it's pretty obvious he doesn't have a problem talking to verbals from other Big Ten schools. If the rest of the conference is going to complain about that, it'll be going back to Ohio State/Michigan and the Little X sooner rather than later.

I hope these guys complaining never interviewed for other jobs while employed. Only an "unethical" company or school would try to pick them off when they're "committed" elsewhere. Idiots.

Hoke already came out in an interview in the last day or two where he said verbals are fair game.

[Balldog]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

If I had to guess the issues with Urban stem from over signing because of how close OSU was to their 82 limit (since they are down 3 for the next few years).

He clarified this during his presser that they are at 81, a few other players have decided to leave the program they are finalizing paperwork and will announce soon.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Balldog

He clarified this during his presser that they are at 81, a few other players have decided to leave the program they are finalizing paperwork and will announce soon.

Yeah I think some of the other coaches are more worried about the practice of signing kids without the scholarships officially open. It's no big deal but there is still a lot of antiquated beliefs in the conference. I don't give a shit because our coach knows how the game is played and isn't being left behind in the dust.

[Balldog]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

FOr the Big 10 coaches to put together a meeting regarding this tells me there might be something more to this. Again, we'll likely never know what it was.

Balldawg, nothing wrong with it.

Last night on my way home they were saying on the local radio that they called the meeting to address this. However, I read last night that this was a regularly scheduled meeting.

[Matthean]

The 2012 class and ones in the future will prove that there are only two football programs in the Big Ten who have a clue about what it takes to recruit on a national level. I'm just glad Michigan is one of them.

EDIT: Hoke even hammers home about how they tell recruits a commitment to them should be as a good as signing. I think it's why when Michigan got verbals and Meyer came in people didn't flip to OSU.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Matthean

The 2012 class and ones in the future will prove that there are only two football programs in the Big Ten who have a clue about what it takes to recruit on a national level. I'm just glad Michigan is one of them.

So you are admitting that it takes a higher level of illegalities to recruit successfully on a national level if you are not in the SEC?

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

So you are admitting that it takes a higher level of illegalities to recruit successfully on a national level if you are not in the SEC?

Not illegal. When Lloyd Carr was at UM there was an unwritten rule that guys didn't go after other Big Ten schools commitments which is just dumb. Rich Rod and Joe Tiller had a big flap over it and Hoke has continued on with it, as he should.

What Matthean is talking about is that the Big Ten still relies too much on Midwest talent and it has to be able to recruit itself in every state. Northwestern has started doing this under Fitzgerald and had its best class ever.

Case in point, in 2013 in state talent in Michigan is just bad. There are 5 kids who will be consensus 4* type kids. Ohio is loaded and so is Illinois. MSU will be forced to focus in other states but they don't usually leave their comfort zone and will struggle for it. Meanwhile Michigan has other areas they have in roads in to make it easier.

Now sure, UM and OSU are national schools and will draw elite talent from all over from its names alone. However having these relationships in place makes it far easier.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

A little postmortem on the 2012 class. Regarding DGB:

Other schools that found out they had been cut actually hadn’t been in the race for months. John Beckham decided he didn’t want Dorial to play at one school after he saw a coach slam a headset at the end of the game instead of simply handing it to a waiting assistant.

The coach was Notre Dame’s Brian Kelly, Tracy Beckham said.

That kind of story has popped up a few times over the course of this year.

I believe it, but on the flip side you have Stephon Tuitt, Aaron Lynch, and Gunner Kiel's mothers. I'd say on balance parents are usually on ND's side (due mostly to the academics).

Any AZ posters with info on Neal? Is his dad looking for something, or just enjoying the increased attention his son's extended recruitment is getting him?

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

So you are admitting that it takes a higher level of illegalities to recruit successfully on a national level if you are not in the SEC?

Michigan and OSU did nothing illegal. The SEC will be the ones pushing the envelop including people like Saban with over signing. Michigan grabbed a 5* recruit from Missouri. They grabbed a 4* OL from Tenn. and Cal. They got 2 more 4* players from outside of the Big Ten area last year. The last time MSU grabbed a 4* player outside of Big Ten country was 2007. Wisconsin hasn't since 2009 but they did it twice. You need to win your state no matter how crappy it is, but you need to pull from outside of your area as well.

It's interesting to look at MSU recruiting. The past two classes had a combined 9 players from Michigan. During RR's last two full classes they had 22. This was the effect RR was having on Michigan. He was losing the state even if MSU couldn't translate that to more on a national level. MSU will now be forced to go outside of Michigan for talent and that doesn't play to their strength. Michigan in this class alone pulled in 9 from instate and then added talent from outside of the Big Ten.

For my own personal amusement, I looked up what will be MSU's senior class as they were rated back at the time. Seven 2*, one 4*, and one of the 3* players(Worthy) is going pro. Even if MSU does a good job coaching their talent, that's not a lot to work with. Michigan on the other hand recruited 4 4* RBs in two years and only one has remotely panned out. (shakes fist at RR)

[CraigSca]

And Stefon Diggs chooses Maryland Woot!

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

And Stefon Diggs chooses Maryland Woot!

I don't know if his deciding late moved him away from Michigan or not since he was looking at them when they had no WR commitments, but that's one of the guys that somewhat got away from them.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Matthean

I don't know if his deciding late moved him away from Michigan or not since he was looking at them when they had no WR commitments, but that's one of the guys that somewhat got away from them.

Michigan never officially offered him because of character concerns. In late November he even said in an interview that Michigan wanted him to fix some issues (some in the class, some outside it) before they could have him on a visit. He said he was trying to get things right in order to visit but it never happened.

[CU Tiger]

1- less than 50% he qualifies
2 - Bust potential
3 - Arrest Potential
4 - WIth the hand fully out...sanctions potential



been drinking a bit

[DeToxRox]

So the last remaining 5* player in the 2012 class, Davonte Neal was set to announce today at an Elementary School in Arizona. 600 kids were out of class to watch him make his announcement. After nearly an hour of highlights of his HS career it was announced Neal decided not to show up. Apparently he wants to go to Arizona and his dad wants him at Notre Dame and since neither side backed down they just decided to not let the school know they weren't coming.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

After nearly an hour of highlights of his HS career

Don't forget the kids' xylophone performance!

[Ksyrup]

Brian Hamilton @ChiTribHamilton
RECESS! RT @NDatRivals: Luke Neal informs Irish Illustrated that he and son Davonte are back at Kyrene de la Esperanza Elementary School.

[Ksyrup]

This is beyond ridiculous.

@azc_obert: The school is waiting for Fox Sports Arizona to return for Davonte Neal signing...

The students will not reassemble for Davonte Neal signing. But principal said Davonte will go to each classroom and apologize.

[DeToxRox]

Fox Sports Arizona declined to show back up lol.

[Matthean]

This is like the male version of kiddie beauty pageants. The father just needs to let the kid decide for himself.

[Ksyrup]

He went with ND, which is the dad's choice. Or so I read. I'd never heard of the kid before today. I guess he got what he wanted.

[bhlloy]

Now all we need is ND to pull the offer and the father to refuse to sign the LOI to Arizona and I think we've covered all the recruiting drama bases.

The one thing I would say in the father's defence is their sometimes can be very real reasons you wouldn't want your kid staying closer to home. I'm not going to condemn him offhand for wanting him to end up somewhere like South Bend. Of course, there's just as much chance that the dad is being a diva

[Matthean]

Another reason to cheer against the evil empire. I swear when they play their school song I expect to here Imperial March.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

He went with ND, which is the dad's choice. Or so I read. I'd never heard of the kid before today. I guess he got what he wanted.

Yay? I guess I hope it works out, but I would have rather had Darby or Greenberry, even as flaky as they were.

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Now all we need is ND to pull the offer and the father to refuse to sign the LOI to Arizona and I think we've covered all the recruiting drama bases.

The one thing I would say in the father's defence is their sometimes can be very real reasons you wouldn't want your kid staying closer to home. I'm not going to condemn him offhand for wanting him to end up somewhere like South Bend. Of course, there's just as much chance that the dad is being a diva

It was the father. If you want more background info - he's the one from this thread Parents and High School athletes - Front Office Football Central

[MrBug708]

Tee Shepard, Not a Domer

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I agree USC has been too cautious in the past. If what I have heard about Armond is true, no school should ever clear him to play football.

What I heard has been confirmed. Armond had a heart attack on the practice field. His father and him are now looking to get paid by suing USC for giving him Toradol injections which they are claiming caused his heart attack. At first glance, seems like a ridiculous law suit.

[MrBug708]

The lawyer is a bring big name in the bay area. He's either looking for a lot of exposure or he thinks he can win

[dawgfan]

Doesn't sound like a ridiculous lawsuit to me - sounds like a wake-up call for athletic trainers all across the NCAA.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/risks-...5#.UOXOX4Zm18F

[MrBug708]

USC and lawsuits seem to be a match made in heaven

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Tee Shepard, Not a Domer

Kind of weird how that story played out with where this thread is now... Shephard had a heart condition that was noticed when he got to Notre Dame. The story seems to be that it was operated on, he would have been cleared to play, he chose to leave school for different reasons (probably the same wonderful advisers that caused him to be ineligible for 2 of his last 3 HS seasons), and those same "advisers" are the ones spinning it as a medical issue to retain his eligibility.

One has to wonder if Shepard or (more importantly) Darby has any regrets about switching since they'd probably be starting in the title game Monday night.

[Matthean]

Did Gunner end up red shirting? I don't see why he wouldn't.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Doesn't sound like a ridiculous lawsuit to me - sounds like a wake-up call for athletic trainers all across the NCAA.

Despite Risks, College Football Still Using Powerful Painkiller - ABC News

It is ridiculous because the science in the medical community does not support any link between Toradol and heart attacks in people with no underlying heart disease.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

It is ridiculous because the science in the medical community does not support any link between Toradol and heart attacks in people with no underlying heart disease.

No link? The only way there would a connection is if he had an underlying heart condition?

Obviously he'd have a stronger case if it were kidney damage, but I'm having a hard time believing that there's no link to heart attacks for those without a prior condition given the warnings.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Did Gunner end up red shirting? I don't see why he wouldn't.

Well, it's Brian Kelly, so I wouldn't rule out him playing 4 quarterbacks and pulling Gunner's Shirt Monday night , but as of now, yes he is. (Without any inside info, I'd still put the odds of him being in South Bend in 2016 under 50% - I don't see him sitting behind Golson for 3 more years, and if he is good enough to pass him on the depth chart I think he would go pro after his 4th year here.)

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

No link? The only way there would a connection is if he had an underlying heart condition?

Obviously he'd have a stronger case if it were kidney damage, but I'm having a hard time believing that there's no link to heart attacks for those without a prior condition given the warnings.

No link, but do a search on Medline, Pubmed, or any of the major medical databases and the science doesn't support the link which makes me think this case doesn't have any legs.

[Eaglesfan27]

Dola -

Besides the medical literature search, I talked to a bunch of friends who are all ED doctors at my job. They all agree that they use Toradol regularly and they only worry about a MI in people with severe coronary artery disease. The major issue with Toradol (like many NSAID's) is the risk of GI damage.

[DeToxRox]

Davonte Neal is leaving ND.