Werewolf XX - Of Demons and Elementals (Humans Win!)

[Blade6119]

Hoops, scratch my comment about ASU knocking off USC...that was my dynasty...we both get them mixed up...ive already had one entire game review wiped after i posted it in yours, got angry and deleted it, and then realized i didnt copy it

[Passacaglia]

Okay, Barkeep, I believe you for now. I'll unvote when I have a better idea who I want to vote for.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

And now things get more complicated...if i believe this, you bring back saldana over king? Interesting either way...very

I've thought seriously about king. But the key is to bring back a guarenteed human. The only such person we have is saldana because he was killed by wolves. I suspect King is good and has a good role. But in keeping my lower risk philosophy that Hoops correctly pointed out, I'd rather bring back the sure thing.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I've thought seriously about king. But the key is to bring back a guarenteed human. The only such person we have is saldana because he was killed by wolves. I suspect King is good and has a good role. But in keeping my lower risk philosophy that Hoops correctly pointed out, I'd rather bring back the sure thing.

How would king not be a human...it says human under his name on player list...so unless you think he was a cunning demon(which i dont think his description fit) i dont see how its possible...care to elaborate?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I've thought seriously about king. But the key is to bring back a guarenteed human. The only such person we have is saldana because he was killed by wolves. I suspect King is good and has a good role. But in keeping my lower risk philosophy that Hoops correctly pointed out, I'd rather bring back the sure thing.

But CW's post 669 pretty clearly states king is human.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

How would king not be a human...it says human under his name on player list...so unless you think he was a cunning demon(which i dont think his description fit) i dont see how its possible...care to elaborate?

Yes. I had thought the rules said we didn't find out which side they were on. Instead it says roles are not revealed. So I had never bothered to check the list.

[hoopsguy]

OK, then here is my list of players

Hoopsguy: human, role TBD
Ardent: ???
Blade: Duke?
Dacman: Elemental, once lynched already
SnDvls: ???, vouched for by Cronin
Passacaglia: ???
Path: ???
Cronin: ???, vouched for by Hoops
Gram: ???, targeted by Cronin
Taz: Tie-breaker?
WVU: previous tie-breaker, already used power.
Barkeep: Priest?
Dubb: ???, vouched for by Hoops

One of the ??? is an assassin (speculative, but almost a certainty).
At least one more is an elemental.
Both the druid and the warlock are still to be identified.
Believe there are two additional demons out there.

That is my grid as of now.

As far as I know, we are not sure that the person in the tie-breaking roles is a human. We do know that WVU selected an elemental, which almost certainly means he is not elemental.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Yes. I had thought the rules said we didn't find out which side they were on. Instead it says roles are not revealed. So I had never bothered to check the list.

My other question...you recently stated it would be stupid to do a double kill on saldana, but now you claimed he would be the one you bring back from the dead...if you wouldnt do a double kill, then you dont think hes important...why then would you bring him back? And Schmidty is around(ive seen him in thread twice today and he apologized for being gone) so he was an option

[Blade6119]

OK, then here is my list of players(bold equals known role...and i consider mine known since if you dont know it by now you arent even playing this game)

Hoopsguy: im fairly sure i know what role he claims to have...havent seen anyone else fit that role, so im tempted to but it
Ardent: has seemed good, been my most trusted non-clear this whole game...trust has been mutual, which makes me like him more
Blade: Duke
Dacman: Elemental, once lynched already
SnDvls: ???, vouched for by Cronin Has been useless this game, and only talks when asked to...not playing like a villager or like himself really
Passacaglia: Has seemed genuinely good, which is a giant change from most games where i feel he is quiet and does next to nothing...thats either the change of a player for good of the team, or a wolf
Path: Ya, about him...WVU of last game it seems to me...which is bad
Cronin: My top suspect...just keep doing odd things...hoops vouching for him helps, but only a little
Gram: No one outside of me has supported him, which tells me hes good...you can think differently, but wolves dont die this easy...especially in a close game like this
Taz: Odd 2nd tie breaker role...not sure coffee would make a role like taz said
WVU: previous tie-breaker, already used power.
Barkeep: Priest reveal...odd play in regards to saldana, and trying to use role on day one before we really know much
Dubb: Horribly off his normal play...which is what makes me sad...cronin and dubb would be my top two kill if i HAD to kill right now, and those are the only two being vouched for by Hoops

[Barkeep49]

Blade you're trying too hard to prove me guilty. Schmidty was not present until after Night 2. I should use my power to bring back a nonexistent player?

Now that I know that schmidty and king are confirmed good guys I would considering bringing back one of them. My lack of understanding of the rules is why I was saying saldana.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Blade you're trying too hard to prove me guilty.

Did you read my whole list or just your name? I said right now cronin and dubb were my top two, and presented cases worse then yours for at least 3 other people outside of those two. Your not my main target, so if you think im pushing too hard for you i pity cronin...you reveal your role when your not my main target, told us the -2 when you werent my #1 target, and continue to defend yourself when im not focusing on you...but all the defending your doing makes me look at you more and more

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

sun and st.cronin only seem to show up when they get called out...go back through their posts recently(especially sun) and they always come like 5 posts after someone called them out...all interesting to me...where you tie in with your supposed clearing of cronin i havent decided yet, but cronin and sun are my leading baddies right now based on everything...i tend to believe you and your role(especially after the double saldana kill...i dont feel you would do that)

LOOK AT THE TIME STAMPS YOU FOOL!!!

1) it's a holiday I'm spending my day with my family if that makes me guilty so be it.
2) look at the time stamps. you are pushing so hard to off me, and for what reason. You've made everyone scared of you having a duke/lord/whatever role that no one wants to take you out for fear of reprecrusions. Quit doing the s**t to the wall technique. Nothing you have thrown out has stuck. You keep pushing for a role reveal from everyone. Well I'll give you mine then if you want it so bad. I'm a minstral with a magical harp. I can bring back one player from the dead, but I can't choose who to bring back, it's random. If I could pick one player I would pick king as I believe he was the seer, but like I said I don't get to choose. I am using my power tonight as I already PM CW to use it. You will see after the night action that I wasn't lying...period. Blade get off your high horse and look at the facts for once, you are hurting the villagers. Now you've gotten three players to reveal their roles...WVU, Taz and now me congrats.

[Barkeep49]

That line was in response to your rapid series of questions. Your nitpicks. You had no such list posted when I began my post. I had to go back and find Schmidty's sign-in to confirm my memory that he was not around for me to bring back in night 2. That took time. Hence my response, something I would not have said after you posted your list.

[hoopsguy]

Hmm, tonight could be VERY interesting.

1.) Could there be two people with the power to raise?
2.) If so, would there only be 3 demons total?

Saldana, glad you are still reading along

[hoopsguy]

Blade, just to be very cryptic and to invoke the spirit of Vizzini once again - I know the role you think I have, but I don't have that role. But I am still human.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

2) look at the time stamps. you are pushing so hard to off me, and for what reason. You've made everyone scared of you having a duke/lord/whatever role that no one wants to take you out for fear of reprecrusions. Quit doing the s**t to the wall technique. Nothing you have thrown out has stuck. You keep pushing for a role reveal from everyone. Well I'll give you mine then if you want it so bad. I'm a minstral with a magical harp. I can bring back one player from the dead, but I can't choose who to bring back, it's random. If I could pick one player I would pick king as I believe he was the seer, but like I said I don't get to choose. I am using my power tonight as I already PM CW to use it. You will see after the night action that I wasn't lying...period. Blade get off your high horse and look at the facts for once, you are hurting the villagers. Now you've gotten three players to reveal their roles...WVU, Taz and now me congrats.

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Pass: You want me to tell the role. Blade's said he doesn't want me to.

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

My list of suspects, based on my impressions.

Most suspicious: Barkeep, hoopsguy (both requesting role reveals)

I didnt ask for role reveals...i said i wouldnt be against it, but i never said i wanted them...im stunned at this, especially after barkeeps reveal...i find it highly dislikely both can bring someone back from the dead, but possible i guess...he obviously didnt read the whole thread, i never wanted a reveal from WVU or taz...if you think im pushing for role reveals then im interested...very interesting read though sun

[hoopsguy]

I also think I'm getting smeared with a broad brush on the role reveals thing, but it wasn't important enough to respond directly to at the time.

I'm intently interested in knowing what the roles are because it helps me make good decisions. But most of the time I'm trying to work through them on my own, with targeted questions that are not meant to generate "OK, here is my role" answers.

The only time I can think of (off the top of my head) in this game where I talked about role reveals was when I asked about the elementals early on. And that was because I was pretty certain I knew the identity of one at the time, not that I was asking them to step forward.

[st.cronin]

If you lynch Grammaticus and what I think happens, happens, I will be a target for demons tonight - or a target for lynch tomorrow. If you lynch me, it's game over for me, but you will all still have a chance.

I'm betting my entire game on it being ABSOLUTELY essential that we kill Gram TODAY.

I am NOT a demon, and my calling out Gram has probably put me square in their sights. But what I know means we have to kill Gram now.

SnDvls is human, I promise.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

If you lynch Grammaticus and what I think happens, happens, I will be a target for demons tonight - or a target for lynch tomorrow. If you lynch me, it's game over for me, but you will all still have a chance.

I'm betting my entire game on it being ABSOLUTELY essential that we kill Gram TODAY.

I am NOT a demon, and my calling out Gram has probably put me square in their sights. But what I know means we have to kill Gram now.

SnDvls is human, I promise.

dola

SnDvls is the ONLY human I am sure about. I trust nobody else.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

If you lynch Grammaticus and what I think happens, happens, I will be a target for demons tonight - or a target for lynch tomorrow. If you lynch me, it's game over for me, but you will all still have a chance.

I'm betting my entire game on it being ABSOLUTELY essential that we kill Gram TODAY.

I am NOT a demon, and my calling out Gram has probably put me square in their sights. But what I know means we have to kill Gram now.

SnDvls is human, I promise.

Are you saying gramat is a demon? You have yet to say that, just its important to kill him. And without role details, how did you come across this info

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I didnt ask for role reveals...i said i wouldnt be against it, but i never said i wanted them...im stunned at this, especially after barkeeps reveal...i find it highly dislikely both can bring someone back from the dead, but possible i guess...he obviously didnt read the whole thread, i never wanted a reveal from WVU or taz...if you think im pushing for role reveals then im interested...very interesting read though sun

see post #482

weather he was going to die or not you flat out asked for it.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Are you saying gramat is a demon? You have yet to say that, just its important to kill him. And without role details, how did you come across this info

I thought it was obvious that he was a demon. Sorry if it seemed like I was mincing words.

GRAM IS A DEMON

I know this. If I told you how I knew it, you wouldn't believe me, and the demons would chop me into tiny bits. Which they probably will anyway. Two things are important: Don't lynch SnDvls, and kill Gram.

[hoopsguy]

From St. Cronin, Post #918

If you lynch Grammaticus and what I think happens, happens, I will be a target for demons tonight - or a target for lynch tomorrow. If you lynch me, it's game over for me, but you will all still have a chance.

I'm betting my entire game on it being ABSOLUTELY essential that we kill Gram TODAY.

I am NOT a demon, and my calling out Gram has probably put me square in their sights. But what I know means we have to kill Gram now.

SnDvls is human, I promise.

Some of this is bullshit. I'm just not sure how much.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I thought it was obvious that he was a demon. Sorry if it seemed like I was mincing words.

GRAM IS A DEMON

I know this. If I told you how I knew it, you wouldn't believe me, and the demons would chop me into tiny bits. Which they probably will anyway. Two things are important: Don't lynch SnDvls, and kill Gram.

I will kill gramat today if you can give me a slightly plausible story...dont though if its a role that can still harm the wolves...but if its a one shot i wouldnt mind more details

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

see post #482

weather he was going to die or not you flat out asked for it.

If a seer is going to die, would you want him to give his info of what he knows? I specifically asked WVU to wait until the deadline and it was sure he was dying. Not defending it, but that role reveal saved his life, which we now know to be a villager. And just for you i can go quote at least 5-6 times i said to not reveal roles...would you care for me buddy?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I will kill gramat today if you can give me a slightly plausible story...dont though if its a role that can still harm the wolves...but if its a one shot i wouldnt mind more details

It is not a one shot deal, but we are one bad move away from losing. That's why I had to come forward.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

It is not a one shot deal, but we are one bad move away from losing. That's why I had to come forward.

If i dont hear an argument against this in the next few minutes, i will submit my PM then...if your wolves, you can expect me to be 10 time more annoying next game...if your good, lets win this thing

[Blade6119]

if you think i need to...we could just lynch him since it sounds like we might have enough and i can send in a contingency PM...if hes going to die already i dont need to use my role

[hoopsguy]

Blade, hold up on the submit for a sec ...

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, are SnDvls and Gram the only two roles that you know?

If you know more, don't tell me how many more you know. Just that it is more than these two players.

[Barkeep49]

Blade it's essential you use your role to verify that you're a villager.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Blade it's essential you use your role to verify that you're a villager.

Id be happy to, and right now gramat is taking a dive...i just dont like that he hasnt defended at all and no one else has besides myself...Sounds eerily bad like im getting set up

[Blade6119]

hoops, its been about half an hour and im hungry...want me to wait till after dinner to send it in?

[hoopsguy]

Was hoping that Cronin would reply. Don't let me hold you up on eating ...

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Was hoping that Cronin would reply. Don't let me hold you up on eating ...

Alright, ill check back in like an hour or two after dinner...unless you say otherwise a PM will be sent to duke gramat

[Passacaglia]

Wow. So many factions going on. I'm not sure that lynching Gram is the right thing to do -- but on the other hand, I see so many other choices out there, that I'm fine with this ploy. We get one wrinkle smoothed out, and clear Blade as a villager. Perhaps the night will see Barkeep and SnDvls cleared as well. Of course, I'm also worried that things will be even more complicated after that!

I'm heading to bed -- I guess I'll see in the morning what Blade decides.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

So we have two tie-breakers? Weird.

Or three.

[hoopsguy]

Path, care to expand? I'm looking for reasons to trust you and don't have them quite yet. Would love to hear what you think about today's discussion.

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Path, care to expand? I'm looking for reasons to trust you and don't have them quite yet. Would love to hear what you think about today's discussion.

Yeah, sorry if that was cryptic, I was just surprised when I saw it and had to note it (it's taken awhile to catch up).

My answer: Taz is now completely in my circle of trust.

That said, I have found myself suspicious of St Cronin for awhile now. However, in reading the past two days in one chunk, and really surprisingly since I was ready to vote for him again up until this very page, I think I'm going to believe him this one time and vote Gram. If I'm wrong, I know where to go next time.

As for me, I'll agree with what Taz said earlier. My role isn't as important as others, except for the fact that I am 100% human. If you don't trust me and want to go that way, OK. Maybe the dead role will be more interesting.

VOTE GRAMMATICUS

[hoopsguy]

So are you vouching for Taz's role? Because I'm curious what part of his actions put him into your circle of trust.

Playing a non-descript villager/human can be a very fun way to play the game. Less pressure, and it forces you to rely solely on your game-reading skills rather than depending on the moderator to spoon-feed you info. But everyone has their own way they like to play the game.

[path12]

I'm saying we have the same role.

[hoopsguy]

So how do both of you break ties?

[path12]

Beats me.

[hoopsguy]

But you trust him? It makes sense to you that both of you would have the same role, as opposed to him having some way of learning your role (perhaps by a favor?) and presenting it as his own?

I'm just trying to figure this out, not tell you how to think. But if someone else was claiming my role I don't think I would be very trusting without something in the role helping me understand why it is shared.

[Blade6119]

well well...it sounds like were getting repeat roles(barkeep and sun/wvu, taz, and path)...i have a wodnerful feeling we have a few liars in that bunch

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

But if someone else was claiming my role I don't think I would be very trusting without something in the role helping me understand why it is shared.

i agree with this...if someone else claimed the duke role they would be dead, as i would kill them...every role that has been killed so far has been unique, quite unique...i have a very hard time believing even one role is doubled up, let alone two(and one of those two with three people claiming it...2 after one already proved to have it)

[Blade6119]

dola, and its mighty convenient that they claim to be able to break ties when we surely wont have a tie today and prob. cant risk having one any other day and having the demons trick us(if we make it to tomorrow)....

and with all the votes on gramat, can i use my role? I can change the outcome of a lynch, but im not sure i can change it to who was already being lynched

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

But you trust him? It makes sense to you that both of you would have the same role, as opposed to him having some way of learning your role (perhaps by a favor?) and presenting it as his own?

I'm just trying to figure this out, not tell you how to think. But if someone else was claiming my role I don't think I would be very trusting without something in the role helping me understand why it is shared.

When I first read his statement about Blade being incorrect about himself breaking ties, no, I didn't believe him. When he described the role, I started to believe him as the description matched mine. Now, it's obviously possible that he is lying and presenting as his own, but as has been mentioned a few times in the last five pages or so, the role is ordinary enough in this game to be suspicious in and of itself.....so I figure he's probably telling the truth, we both think we have the tiebreaker, and some other element decides which of us really does.

Regardless, it wouldn't change how I feel about my vote right now. It seems to me that it is much more important to find out if Cronin can be trusted or not than Taz.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

well well...it sounds like were getting repeat roles(barkeep and sun/wvu, taz, and path)...i have a wodnerful feeling we have a few liars in that bunch

*shrug* You can think what you'd like. I am not lying.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Wow. So many factions going on. I'm not sure that lynching Gram is the right thing to do -- but on the other hand, I see so many other choices out there, that I'm fine with this ploy. We get one wrinkle smoothed out, and clear Blade as a villager. Perhaps the night will see Barkeep and SnDvls cleared as well. Of course, I'm also worried that things will be even more complicated after that!

I'm heading to bed -- I guess I'll see in the morning what Blade decides.

I couldnt agree more with everything you said...i think im going to kill gramat more to find out about sun, cronin, hoops and dubb then any real feelings about gramat