Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

That hack hasn't been credible in at least 4 decades

You're high.

Me & Jimmy, well we have oxygen in common on most stuff (if you know his politics, you understand) ... but he's not only one of the top two managers ever but in many respects one of the 3-4 best minds the business has ever seen.

I get frustrated with him now at times, there's plenty of times now when I find myself saying "nope, Jim, you're missing the point". Some of that is blinders, some of that is personal issues with certain people.

But over his run, few have ever come close to being as good much less better.

[miami_fan]

ERROR: The request could not be satisfied

WWE Superstar Bray Wyatt has tragically died at the age of 36, WWE executive Triple H announced on social media.

"Just received a call from WWE Hall of Famer Mike Rotunda who informed us of the tragic news that our WWE family member for life Windham Rotunda - also known as Bray Wyatt - unexpectedly passed earlier today. Our thoughts are with his family and we ask that everyone respect their privacy at this time."

[RainMaker]

Whoa, that's terrible. They've been very cryptic about his absence but it seems like he haas been battling some demons.

[PilotMan]

Holy shit. That's shocking.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

RIP to a legend. I saw him wrestle as a kid at an independent promotion of some sort in Chicago (my friend's Mom was the ring announcer!). The whole place was nuts for him and he signed autographs for everyone after covered in blood and sweat. Was maybe the coolest thing a 10 year old could see.






This deserved more recognition. Not sure there's anyone that's done what he's done over a career. He was fully next level.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Whoa, that's terrible. They've been very cryptic about his absence but it seems like he haas been battling some demons.

Family said, through whathisname at Fightful, that he'd battled a heart issue exacerbated by Covid. Today died from a sudden & unexpected heart attack.

(the unexpected being that he was apparently cleared to return to action just two weeks ago)

[Front Office Midget]

I would consider Bray Wyatt to be one of the most charismatic workers of this generation. I tuned out of WWE post-2017 so definitely missed a lot of his work, but you could argue that his heel work is what helped both Daniel Bryan and the Shield to the moon- it is hard in the modern era to get legitimate heat, but the pop after Bryan turned on Wyatt was insane, and that was just as much to Bray's credit as it was to Bryan.


Great babyfaces need great heels to foil them, and it needs to be "right place, right role, right time", and Wyatt's 2014 work was beautiful as a heel. His promos were often littered with more poetry and truth than typical wrestling promos.

Very sad.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Front Office Midget

Very sad.

The thing that's made me saddest about this in some respect is how many people said something along these lines "when I first got called up/signed, you were the first person to welcome me/help me/be my friend"

A real sense that he was "that guy', the one who made sure that the new kid in class had a table to sit at for lunch or something. Those people kinda get a +1 to all levels or something.

[NobodyHere]

36 is way too young to die.

[miami_fan]

It's wild that the Wyatt family debuted in November 2017 and now in August of 2023 two of the three original members have passed away.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The thing that's made me saddest about this in some respect is how many people said something along these lines "when I first got called up/signed, you were the first person to welcome me/help me/be my friend"

A real sense that he was "that guy', the one who made sure that the new kid in class had a table to sit at for lunch or something. Those people kinda get a +1 to all levels or something.

Yeah, he seemed universally liked and I can't find a negative thing said about him as a person. He had two young kids which makes this even sadder.

[dubb93]

I really hope they step back and give us all time to process the loss. I know it’s silly because they don’t know him, but my boys are pretty worked up about Bray. I hope it’s more than a small video, a graphic overlay, and then business as usual. We could do with putting the soap opera on hold a week and processing the situation. Let his friends honor him and let us process what happened.

My boys haven’t really experienced much loss and this is really the first time since my oldest was an infant that a death has really hit anyone they cared about even if it was just someone they watch on TV.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Yeah, he seemed universally liked and I can't find a negative thing said about him as a person. He had two young kids which makes this even sadder.

Four, and yeah, one of the very few that you'll never hear anyone say anything bad about him. It's always the good ones that leave us too soon.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I really hope they step back and give us all time to process the loss. I know it’s silly because they don’t know him, but my boys are pretty worked up about Bray. I hope it’s more than a small video, a graphic overlay, and then business as usual. We could do with putting the soap opera on hold a week and processing the situation. Let his friends honor him and let us process what happened.

My boys haven’t really experienced much loss and this is really the first time since my oldest was an infant that a death has really hit anyone they cared about even if it was just someone they watch on TV.

Someone on Twitter I saw remark that this was "my generation's Eddie Guerrero" and while that might be a bit overdoing it IMO (simply due to career length) it's probably not a horrible analogy either

[Mota]

So I bought tickets for Wrestlemania next year, going both nights. Terrible seats where we'll be watching the screens most of the night, but my son begged for years to go, and he'll be 20, this is likely one of the last years we'll have a chance to do this together.

I tried watching some WWE so that I'm not totally lost when we go to the PPV, and I just can't. It's just not written for me. I prefer NJPW, Stardom and AEW which I currently watch. Maybe I'll just watch the PPV's.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Mota

So I bought tickets for Wrestlemania next year, going both nights. Terrible seats where we'll be watching the screens most of the night, but my son begged for years to go, and he'll be 20, this is likely one of the last years we'll have a chance to do this together.

I tried watching some WWE so that I'm not totally lost when we go to the PPV, and I just can't. It's just not written for me. I prefer NJPW, Stardom and AEW which I currently watch. Maybe I'll just watch the PPV's.

I’m super jealous man. I got the early access code but I couldn’t justify the prices. Hopefully by the time my oldest is 20 I’m finally at a financial place where I can justify the prices. We are going to Fastline and sitting row 3, but those tickets are like the equivalent of trying to listen to WrestleMania from the sidewalk outside in price.

[Mota]

Yeah, I paid $500 per ticket for the 2 night combo tickets, which is insane. Looked on Ticketmaster and they're already going for $700 (nosebleeds directly at the 50 yard line).

So if he acts like an a-hole in the next several months, I can just resell the tickets, LOL.

[RainMaker]

So does AEW have 2 world champs but they're separate because Punk can only get along sith a few people and has to be on the Saturday show no one watches? I don't understand any of it.

[RainMaker]

Also, is ROH it's own thing? Why are the ROH tag belts a thing in AEW?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Also, is ROH it's own thing? Why are the ROH tag belts a thing in AEW?

ROH is it's own thing ... sort of. Best I can tell, $10/month you subscribe to Honor Club and get stuff that's taped after various Dynamites, Collisions, etc. It's more of a brand than a company.

Think of it kinda like how NJPW Strong titles appear on main brand NJPW shows
at times.

[Mota]

I loved ROH for many years, but it died during COVID.

In addition to trying to watch WWE, I tried to watch teh ROH weekly program, and it's pretty bad. It's basically the equivalent of AEW Dark Elevation or whatever the sub-sub brand used to be.

[molson]

AEW setup a whole new show just because CM Punk couldn't get along with people, but then right before Al In starts, he gets into some kind of fight with Jack Perry (which, per custom, resulted in Perry being sent away from the arena), but apparently now, Punk threatened to quit, and both are suspended pending the classic Punk-era "AEW investigation" of workplace violence.

I almost can't wait to see what happens next.

[RainMaker]

That Jericho entrance was incredibly cool.


Also Jericho is incredible. That match with Ospreay, despite his age, was incredibly good. He even showed up at the RevPro show to attack Ospreay. He's really one of the best to ever do it.






[RainMaker]

Does anyone know what happened to Ibushi? Not a huge expert on his stuff but he seems to have fallen off a lot in the ring.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Does anyone know what happened to Ibushi? Not a huge expert on his stuff but he seems to have fallen off a lot in the ring.

Well for starters, he's 41 now. And he's coming off, what, a 17 month layoff and has only worked four actual matches.

Time wounds all heels.

[Mota]

Enough is enough, Punk will destroy the entire company if they let him keep doing what he is doing. You just need to look at the common theme in all these altercations. Time to call it a loss and let the "real" world champ stay at home for the rest of his contract. I'm sorry, but while he may be a draw, he hasn't done anything remotely good since coming back.

[molson]

TMZ has some more info on Bray Wyatt's death.

He was hospitalized for a heart issue a week before he died, and had a follow up appointment the morning he died. He was supposed to be wearing an external heart defibrillator but wasn't wearing it when he died while taking a nap. I think I remember reading that he had the heart issues before (and that might have been why he had that long hiatus before), but it seems to have gotten much worse since he got COVID in March.

https://www.tmz.com/2023/08/28/wwe-b...adid=social-tw

[albionmoonlight]

Saw some very random trivia earlier today.

What is the only WrestleMania main event in which both participants used their real names (as opposed to wrestling stage names)?

Spoiler

WrestleMania 19: Kurt Angle v. Brock Lesnar

[JonInMiddleGA]

AEW terminates CM Punk "for cause", effective immediately

https://twitter.com/AEW/status/1698071772543738090

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

AEW terminates CM Punk "for cause", effective immediately

https://twitter.com/AEW/status/1698071772543738090

I wonder if there is any chance he shows up on RAW proclaiming himself the real worlds champion?

[molson]

There was one report, which Khan seemed to confirm with comments he made tonight, that Punk actually lunged at Khan and some monitors fell over onto Khan during the whole fracas.

I don't think Endeavor-owned WWE currently doing great business will want anything to do with Punk. And he seems too full of himself to work for less money in Japan or something. What a way to go out. He cost himself millions because he couldn't stop attacking co-workers, and then also the owner of the company (who was a total mark for Punk and more than willing to look past almost all transgressions and build the company around him).

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I wonder if there is any chance he shows up on RAW proclaiming himself the real worlds champion?

He looked pretty washed in the ring and seems impossible to get along with. I also found his AEW run to be really boring outside of the MJF stuff (which MJF carried). Just don't see the upside for WWE which has been cruising.

Also feels like a win for AEW long term. Give Ospreay that money.

[Front Office Midget]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Also feels like a win for AEW long term. Give Ospreay that money.

Ospreay stole the show the last 2 PPVs. Haven't seen much of him before, but clearly knows how to tell a story in the ring. Granted, he was working with legends in Omega and Jericho, but he seemed right at place with them. And he's only 30. I agree they should prioritize getting him on the main roster and building him into one of their top stars.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Front Office Midget

Ospreay stole the show the last 2 PPVs. Haven't seen much of him before, but clearly knows how to tell a story in the ring. Granted, he was working with legends in Omega and Jericho, but he seemed right at place with them. And he's only 30. I agree they should prioritize getting him on the main roster and building him into one of their top stars.

It's likely to come down to whether NJPW will finally be willing to pay someone to stick around. I have my doubts that's going to be the case (they haven't got a great track record for that lately) but I believe he's happy in Japan (one of the few gaijin I get that feeling from) and he's said publicly that they just need to make a competitive offer and he'll stay.

[Mota]

The one interview he gave after jobbing to Moxley because of the foot injury and before the PPV was unbelievable. Other than that, I haven't seen the CM Punk that used to be my favorite wrestler in the WWE days.

I thought that CM Punk was the voice of the voiceless, but it turned out he was just a malcontent.

EDIT - and his wrestling skills have also deteriorated tenfold, he doesn't look or wrestle like an athlete in 2023.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Mota

EDIT - and his wrestling skills have also deteriorated tenfold, he doesn't look or wrestle like an athlete in 2023.

I wonder if that's part of his discontent - coming back and realizing wrestling has passed him by. The top guys now are better than he was in his prime, at least in the ring.

Plus there seems to have been an element of him wanting to be a "locker room leader", giving advice, being respected, and the top guys maybe respected who he is and what he's done, but didn't particularly see him as that guy they needed to take direction from, and certainly didn't want to kiss his ass.

[Toddzilla]

Kingston and Moxley all told us what was up with Punk 2 years ago. Shit, Punk himself said if you have a problem with Jungle Boy then you were the real problem.

Idk what's going on in Phil Brooks' head, but I hope he gets the help he needs.

[Toddzilla]

This is like the 5th or 6th AEW PPV in a row in which the lead up to it and promotion of it have been total dogshit.

Fortunately, it's also like the 11th or 12th in a row where the actual wrestling has been absolutely fucking incredible.

[SirFozzie]

I will hear no slander against Orange Cassidy. EVER.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

I will hear no slander against Orange Cassidy. EVER.

It ain't slander if it's the truth: He's a comedy act, one that wears very thin since it's basically only one joke.

He could be more, he's a capable enough wrestler. Nothing particular outstanding but capable (and there's nothing wrong with that).

In the end all he does is damage the credibility of anyone that's supposed to be taken serious that ends up put in the ring to deal with his 3rd rate act.

Comedy has a place -- I love me some Toru Yano -- but that place is rarely a main event and it's hard to take AEW seriously as long as they push this clown as anything other than the clown he is.

[Mota]

It's a one trick joke that has lasted for 3 years in AEW? He just came off an incredible title run where he defended the title 30 times, and showed a ton more character to his personality over this time.
I think it's pretty obvious that he's way more than the cool bored guy that we first saw several years ago.

[SirFozzie]

Yeah Jon, you're wrong. Cassidy has shown much more than being a one trick pony. He's unique amongst wrestling, sure.. but let's look at all the good matches he's won over his International title reign.

[Flasch186]

One his slow burn character arc is awesome

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

It's a one trick joke that has lasted for 3 years in AEW?

The ultimate bunch of marks.

It's neither a company nor a fan base I have much respect for honestly.

The product has moments to be sure, those are just often surrounded by absolutely unbearable crap.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The biggest achievement of Cassidy's career is destroying the legacy of Shibata.

I literally have no desire to ever see Shibata in a ring again after, of all the characters in the business, he devalued everything he's ever done by getting in the ring with a sack like Cassidy.

Fuck that mfer, and fuck TK for booking him on TV.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The ultimate bunch of marks.

It's neither a company nor a fan base I have much respect for honestly.

The product has moments to be sure, those are just often surrounded by absolutely unbearable crap.

(obi-wan kenobi), who's more markish, the mark, or the mark who calls the first mark a mark.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The biggest achievement of Cassidy's career is destroying the legacy of Shibata.

I literally have no desire to ever see Shibata in a ring again after, of all the characters in the business, he devalued everything he's ever done by getting in the ring with a sack like Cassidy.

Fuck that mfer, and fuck TK for booking him on TV.

Did you prefer managing the Midnights when it was Beautiful Bobby and Loverboy Dennis or Bobby and Sweet Stan?

[SirFozzie]

Just to probably be considered more of a (wrestling) heretic by Jon's standards.. Dennis and Bobby were good, Bobby and Stan were GREAT.

[RainMaker]

I don't mind Orange Cassidy if he's booked right. He's a comedy character who should be in the same role as someone like Santino was. A nice change of pace during a show.

He's been better than I thought but I don't think he should be a champion in the company. There are way too many good wrestlers in AEW for that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Did you prefer managing the Midnights when it was Beautiful Bobby and Loverboy Dennis or Bobby and Sweet Stan?

I'm a Bobby & Stan guy, but that's largely due to familiarity. For whatever reason(s), I feel like I saw that incarnation probably 10x as much as the other.