Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[RainMaker]

I'm probably the only one annoyed by this, but I hate how AEW does post-show press conferences. A press conference idea is fine if you stay in kayfabe (I think NJPW does this), but AEW doesn't. It's just weird to watch a 45-minute blood feud match and then have one of the wrestlers talk about how great it was to work with the person 20 minutes after the show. MJF is the only one I've seen stay in character. Maybe Eddie Kingston but I'm never really sure if he's ever in kayfabe.

Yes, kayfabe is dead, but that just kills any immersion from me.

Another big difference between Vince and Tony is how that CM Punk firing went down. Back in the day, Vince would have cut a heel promo in front of the Chicago crowd. Maybe had Jack Perry come out and cut a heel promo. Instead you get Tony Khan meekly telling the audience why he did it while getting booed. He looked so shook out there too.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm probably the only one annoyed by this, but I hate how AEW does post-show press conferences. A press conference idea is fine if you stay in kayfabe (I think NJPW does this), but AEW doesn't. It's just weird to watch a 45-minute blood feud match and then have one of the wrestlers talk about how great it was to work with the person 20 minutes after the show. MJF is the only one I've seen stay in character. Maybe Eddie Kingston but I'm never really sure if he's ever in kayfabe.

Yes, kayfabe is dead, but that just kills any immersion from me.

Another big difference between Vince and Tony is how that CM Punk firing went down. Back in the day, Vince would have cut a heel promo in front of the Chicago crowd. Maybe had Jack Perry come out and cut a heel promo. Instead you get Tony Khan meekly telling the audience why he did it while getting booed. He looked so shook out there too.

One of the reasons why we stopped watching AEW. They don't care that my kids still think it's all real. For everything that they do right, this wrong is unforgivable in my house.

[Toddzilla]

There's a VERY easy solution to this problem, you know? Best of all it's 100% under your control.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Another big difference between Vince and Tony is how that CM Punk firing went down. Back in the day, Vince would have cut a heel promo in front of the Chicago crowd. Maybe had Jack Perry come out and cut a heel promo. Instead you get Tony Khan meekly telling the audience why he did it while getting booed. He looked so shook out there too.

Of course he was shook. Who wouldn't be telling a Chicago crowd that they just fired their hero and saviour? I'm shocked he had the balls to do it in the first place - not that it was a great idea given he had a video package in the can - but if you want to be a stand up guy, you gotta stand up.

Also, if you're still flabbergasted that AEW doesn't try to turn every single little thing into an angle like WWE, you're 4 years behind the curve. It's always been like that and always will be. Given lawyers had to get involved in the firing and no one in AEW will touch the subject on the record, are you still surprised?

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

ROH is it's own thing ... sort of. Best I can tell, $10/month you subscribe to Honor Club and get stuff that's taped after various Dynamites, Collisions, etc. It's more of a brand than a company.

Think of it kinda like how NJPW Strong titles appear on main brand NJPW shows
at times.

Do you think - had TK been given the opportunity to buy ROH 5 years ago - there'd still be an AEW?

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It's likely to come down to whether NJPW will finally be willing to pay someone to stick around. I have my doubts that's going to be the case (they haven't got a great track record for that lately) but I believe he's happy in Japan (one of the few gaijin I get that feeling from) and he's said publicly that they just need to make a competitive offer and he'll stay.

If he doesn't get that offer and becomes just another Jay White in AEW, it will be a sad turn of events.

The rare quad-dola. I'm waiting for a flight if that wasn't obvious.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Do you think - had TK been given the opportunity to buy ROH 5 years ago - there'd still be an AEW?

Yeah, thought maybe not under that name and maybe not with TK involved.

The kernel of it probably lies with "the EVPS". It might only exist at about the size/level of GameChangerWrestling, but it would exist.

Now if the question is whether the ROH purchase would have the same timeslot, finanical backing, etc as AEW has, that would be a no. TimeWarner would never have touched the ROH brand, not sure a rebrand would have been sufficient either honestly.

[SirFozzie]

MJF just pulled out a classic promo against Samoa Joe. No, I don't mean he came up with a great promo, he just recycled a classic promo against Joe

I had the Booker T reaction

tell me you didn't just say that - YouTube

"Tell me you just did not say that."

[SirFozzie]

And reading a r/squaredcircle thread on who squandered all their talent and never hit it big, while people were bringing up Ultimate Warrior ruining his career with his wackiness and Velveteen Dream for being a sex pest, I had to go old school... I brought up Al Perez. Who decided that he was going to shoot on Ric Flair and hold the NWA title hostage until he got a huge new contract.

I'll let the late great Gary Hart tell the story:

From Al Perez – A Wrestling Career That Could Have Been More , which also has Al Perez's version)

Originally Posted by Gary Hart

Eventually, I pushed for Al Perez to get a run with NWA Champion Ric Flair. Dusty booked a couple of matches between them, and things started off well until Kevin Sullivan. approached me with a serious issue

‘We have a potential problem,’ Kevin said. ‘Al told me he’s planning to stretch Ric and take his belt during his match at the Bayfront Arena in St. Petersburg, Florida.’

I figured Al must have been kidding around and that Kevin took him seriously, so I brushed it off. But, to be sure, I asked Al if he really said that. To my disbelief, Al confirmed it.

‘Ric can’t wrestle, and I can,’ he told me. ‘The Bayfront Arena will be the perfect place to do it. I’ll take that belt from him, and if they want it back, they can give me a big fat contract.’

That was Al’s mindset, and I couldn’t talk him out of it, no matter how hard I tried. His taking Ric’s belt was non-negotiable, and it put me in a real bind. I was always loyal to my talent- but there’s a limit.

Al Perez was looking to sabotage an NWA World Title match that I fought for him to get. I knew I had to do what was right for the business, so I told Al that I couldn’t be a part of his scheme.

Then, I found Kevin and confirmed what Al had told him. Kevin told me not to show up at the Bayfront Arena for their match and that the office would handle it.

I obviously wasn’t there that night, but from what I understand, Al entered the ring, and his whole family was there. He was a Florida boy, and the Cuban community turned out to support him.

As he stood in the ring, Doug Dellinger, the head of security, went down and told him to get out of the ring.

It was then announced that there was a clause in the contract that said that I had to be in Al’s corner, or the contract wasn’t valid, and since I wasn’t there, the match couldn’t go on.

They finally got Al out of the ring. Eddie Gilbert came in to wrestle Ric that night, and they fired Al on the spot.

Al called me as soon as he got home, wondering why I didn’t show up, adding, ‘I thought we were partners.’

‘Yes, we were partners,’ I said. ‘However, I didn’t condone what you wanted to do, and I made that very clear with you. I’m sorry you lost your job, and if there’s anything I can do to help you in the future, please don’t hesitate to let me know.’

We left it at that and went our separate ways. It was an unfortunate ending to a great partnership."

It's dumb enough to decide you're going to shoot on Ric Flair and the NWA cartel, thinking that they're going to give you a huge contract to get the title back, but REALLY dumb to tell multiple people about it beforehand.

It kinda falls under "Are you fucking takin notes on a criminal conspiracy?"

[molson]

I watched episode one of the "Wrestlers" documentary series on Netflix, about Ohio Valley Wrestling, I thought it was fantastic. It has a Beyond the Matt feel, they highlight the lives of a few of the wrestlers, Al Snow as co-owner/booker, the outside money guys that came in and are demanding results, the struggles of putting on a low-budget TV show where nothing seems to work right, a season-long storyline setup (they have to break even by the big show at the end of the summer or the outside money guys are shutting this down).

[Mota]

I've only watched the first two episodes so far, where they get the results of the PPV buys.

But from looking at the wrestlers, I can see why they struggle. I know that when I go to any of the local Toronto indie feds (Smash Wrestling is my favorite), that you're going to see some of these guys in the big feds in a few years. They spotlight people on the way up. And from going to many indie shows, the successful ones book wrestlers on the way up, or on the way down (from WWE/AEW). From what I've seen so far, OVW is full of the wrestlers that didn't make it, and are hanging on by a thread.

The Santino Bros constantly put on wrestling shows featuring 80's WWF guys and can draw 1,000 people. I think the lack of results is on Al Snow, as much as I like the guy.

[dubb93]

I just read the single dumbest wrestling related news story I think I’ve ever read. Nick Khan says the new company is “hyper focused” on creating an annual draft event for UFC and WWE.

I have alot of questions….but I guess my first would be he hasn’t really worked there as long as he has thinking WWE is real this entire time has he?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I just read the single dumbest wrestling related news story I think I’ve ever read. Nick Khan says the new company is “hyper focused” on creating an annual draft event for UFC and WWE.

I have alot of questions….but I guess my first would be he hasn’t really worked there as long as he has thinking WWE is real this entire time has he?

There's a feeling that the WWE will be taking in a number of declining/aging UFC guys to transition them to a new career. I imagine there's one or two WWE guys (especially some of the ones that haven't even made it onto NXT yet) who might entertain a notion of trying a UFC fight or two (or maybe, whaddyacallit, the reality series thing they do)

[molson]

The talent releases have started. Most notably Dolph Ziggler, who has been there 19 years.

[Mota]

Most of the wrestlers haven't been used extensively in some time now.

Still sucks for someone like Ziggler who has been there for so long.

[molson]

WWE also moving Smackdown to USA for 40% more than they were getting at Fox. $1.4 billion for 5 years. Not too shabby.

RAW will probably be shopped and might deliver even more money. It also might move nights.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by molson

WWE also moving Smackdown to USA for 40% more than they were getting at Fox. $1.4 billion for 5 years. Not too shabby.

RAW will probably be shopped and might deliver even more money. It also might move nights.

The article I read said that purchasing the rights to Smackdown will preclude USA from renewing Raw and NXT, so those 2 will definitely be on a new network.

I'll wager a sawbuck that NXT somehow ends up on Wednesdays

[Toddzilla]

Raw to ESPN - book it

[JonInMiddleGA]

WWE has released Matt Riddle (confirmed by Riddle a short while ago)

[RainMaker]

Riddle has to be high on the list of wrestlers who just blew up their career. I was never a huge fan of his act, but the guy was totally over a year ago. Their was a genuine thought that he could be the one to dethrone Reigns. And the stuff he did with Orton was as popular as anything going in WWE at the time.

[Mota]

AEW better not sign Riddle. He's got a ton of charisma, but they just got rid of CM Punk, it should be max effort to have locker room harmony now.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Riddle has to be high

Ya, probably.

[Toddzilla]

one of Raw or NXT (maybe even smackdown) to Wednesdays - book it

[Edward64]

Looking good.

[SirFozzie]

I almost wish that the rumor that "AEW is buying NJPW" was true. Only because Jon would prove the earth is round, as he would hit Low Earth Orbit without needing propulsion.

I do expect Khan to announce a closer working relationship (like co branded PPV's two-three times a year, maybe a Super Bowl of Wrestling where the AEW/ROH champions take on NJPW champions. (Eddie Kingston would have to fight himself, of course)

edit: I wonder if he'd be interested in buying NJPW's library, if only to make themselves look better for a WBD-Max deal.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

I almost wish that the rumor that "AEW is buying NJPW" was true. Only because Jon would prove the earth is round, as he would hit Low Earth Orbit without needing propulsion.

I do expect Khan to announce a closer working relationship (like co branded PPV's two-three times a year, maybe a Super Bowl of Wrestling where the AEW/ROH champions take on NJPW champions. (Eddie Kingston would have to fight himself, of course)

edit: I wonder if he'd be interested in buying NJPW's library, if only to make themselves look better for a WBD-Max deal.

I've said, just here in the batcave, for the better part of a year now that I expect NJPW to be sold.

I don't get any sense that Bushiroad has their heart in the ownership at this point and aside from the cuts their getting from some of the endorsement deals, I don't think the revenue (or at least profit) has met their expectation for the NJPW brand nor from leveraging it into their other properties.

I don't believe a US owner would survive in Japan, regardless of who it was, and not even if they literally changed not one single thing about the visible product. That's a market that's more nuanced than Memphis ever thought about being and I don't believe a gaijin company would be accepted by fans.

[RainMaker]

What is the deal with AEW and having 100 titles? Is it to just keep the talent happy or is Tony just a belt mark? They have 2 different trios championships in the company for christ sake. They have 7 different singles titles, and that's not including when they have defenses of IWGP titles on their shows too.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What is the deal with AEW and having 100 titles? Is it to just keep the talent happy or is Tony just a belt mark? They have 2 different trios championships in the company for christ sake. They have 7 different singles titles, and that's not including when they have defenses of IWGP titles on their shows too.

I'm really not a big fan of the ROH brand. If it really was a separate show, that's fine, but the titles are defended on AEW regularly. They already had too many titles, but now it's completely ridiculous.

It's definitely not the ROH that many of us loved years ago. I tried watching the weekly TV show, and it's pretty bad. There's only so much TV that one company can produce.

[Toddzilla]

Also, every ROH title is on an AEW regular at the moment. ROH needs to go away.

Sell it to CM Punk and let that asshole run his own company and let him melt down as many times as he wants.

[Carman Bulldog]

A title is simply a prop. It's much easier for a feud to be about a title than figuring out another reason for two people to be fighting. I say this as someone who generally likes Tony Khan, but too many titles is simply a crutch for lazy booking.

[Toddzilla]

Another idea is to have a "Night of Champions" PPV and have each of the respective AEW and ROH title holders unify the belts. It "keeps the lineage" of the ROH titles alive and then you can just stop running ROH shows until there's an legit outlet.

Cuts the number of belts in half in 1 night.

[Toddzilla]

as if it were still a secret, Adam Copeland is in Seattle

[RainMaker]

Darby Allin is going to kill himself someday. I just don't think you can do the stuff he does safely.

If anyone is looking for a great match, Dragunov vs Hayes on the big NXT show was incredible. About as violent as I've ever seen in NXT, let alone WWE. Dragunov is a star and would be considered one of the best in the world if he wasn't stuck in NXT.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Darby Allin is going to kill himself someday. I just don't think you can do the stuff he does safely.

If anyone is looking for a great match, Dragunov vs Hayes on the big NXT show was incredible. About as violent as I've ever seen in NXT, let alone WWE. Dragunov is a star and would be considered one of the best in the world if he wasn't stuck in NXT.

Yeah, the other day he did one of those coffin drops from the top tope onto an actual coffin outside the ring. That's a really long way to land on something that's not flat, and your back taking the direct impact. It's totally different than a flat back bump, because it's not flat, and you're not landing on an even surface. He's definitely going to have a serious injury, or just a series of small ones that add up.

[RainMaker]

Christian threw him 3 times on to the actual steps in their match. I think twice from the ring apron. There was one where Christian actually stops and just doesn't do it because he realizes how fucking stupid it is.

Like maybe there is a way this is done safely, but good lord. Kind of reminds me of old ECW where a couple smaller guys would take insane bumps.




[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Kind of reminds me of old ECW where a couple smaller guys would take insane bumps.

OhmyGAAAAAAD they just killed Spike Dudley !

[dubb93]

Took the boy to Fastlane last night. Been going to wrestling with the boy for a couple of years now every time they come to Indy or Cincy and I haven’t heard anything quite like what LA Knight is getting right now. All over the streets people yelling “Yea.” Inside the arena during every intermission LA Knight chants. During his match my son told me he had a headache because it was so loud.

I’m just trying to figure out how WWE messes this up.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Christian threw him 3 times on to the actual steps in their match. I think twice from the ring apron. There was one where Christian actually stops and just doesn't do it because he realizes how fucking stupid it is.

Like maybe there is a way this is done safely, but good lord. Kind of reminds me of old ECW where a couple smaller guys would take insane bumps.




They wrote him off TV with the con-chair-to-arm because in April next year, he's climbing Mount Everest, and will be going into training for that.

Darby Allin On When He Can Climb Mt. Everest, Wanting Discovery To Document It

That is, if his arm isn't already seriously hurt.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Watching NJPW Destruction live (cause, shrug, why not), my randomliy insightful offspring had an interesting comment.

If you had said even two years ago that there'd be a match with Kevin Knight, Kushida, Clark Connors and Dan Maloney ... and that Kushida would be the least interesting and likely weak link in the match, I'd have said you were nuts.

But here we are.

[JonInMiddleGA]

3.5 hours later and we still have the Jr Title triple threat AND the HW title main event to go.

There hasn't been anything wrong with much of the show to this point but Christ on a crutch, Destruction does NOT need to be a 4.5 to 5 hour show

It's turned into an endurance test for viewers/fans before we get to the two primary matches.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Absolute shitshow of a main. And bless his heart, it wasn't even Evil's fault that it was horrendous. He might have been the only guy involved who understood the assignment.

[molson]

The Iron Claw trailer came out today and looks pretty slick.

I think wrestling fans will probably have to accept that some things have to be glossed over or removed to make it all work as a movie (there's no evidence from the trailer or cast list that Chris exists in the movie, for example). I'm sure there will be a lot to complain about in that regard if people are so inclined.

My guess from the trailer is that they focus on the family dynamics (mostly brotherhood and Fritz being a dick), the death of David, and the illness drama and death of Mike. The wrestling scenes look great but I'd guess those will be sparse and quick.

[RainMaker]

It is weird that they left out Chris. Maybe they thought that's just too much sadness for one movie. Also forgot that MJF is in this movie playing Lance.

[RainMaker]

Is there a reason that NJPW doesn't do 3-way or 4-way matches much? I generally hate those matches unless it's an early card spotfest. Never really thought much but the more I watch NJPW, the more I appreciate how they rarely do it.

[SirFozzie]

Mostly because they prefer matches with a clean winner and loser, and feel like it devalues titles to put them in multiway matches often (lower grade titles are not as protected)

[JonInMiddleGA]

There have been few with anything on the line, interesting to look at the notable ones and notice that all have included at least one gaijin

2005 - Lesnar (his IWGP title win) over Chono and Fujita
2013 - Devitt vs Ibushi vs Low Ki
2018 - Goto vs Elgin vs Taichi
2018 - Cody vs Kenny vs Ibushi

[JonInMiddleGA]

Impact Wrestling to rebrand as TNA Wrestling in January

https://cultaholic.com/posts/impact-...m-january-2024

[dubb93]

Tonight marked the third Saturday in a row I was able to take my boys to a wrestling show. WWE Fastlane followed by a local “company” that runs one show a year at our local farmers market, and then tonight we went to the next town over and saw a local show that runs a show monthly with wrestlers that wrestle all over the Midwest and sometimes certain Impact Wrestling talent that live locally.

I’m going to be sad next Saturday when I don’t have a show to take them to. They have had an absolute blast. For the record they are 7 and 5.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by dubb93

For the record they are 7 and 5.

That's the best age! I used to take my son to ROH back when he was 5, and it was the best time. The wrestlers love the kids. He got so much attention until he turned 14, and then the wrestlers suddenly only wanted to spend time with him if he bought an 8x10", LOL.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Mota

That's the best age! I used to take my son to ROH back when he was 5, and it was the best time. The wrestlers love the kids. He got so much attention until he turned 14, and then the wrestlers suddenly only wanted to spend time with him if he bought an 8x10", LOL.

Most of the local guys have been great. Only one guy so far loudly yelling he won't even talk to anyone unless they buy a picture during the intermission. Funny thing about that is he was playing a face, but I guess he just doesn't care about that kind of stuff.