Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[JonInMiddleGA]

Dirtsheets reporting this morning that Danielson is out for the remainder of 2023 after surgery to repair a broken orbital bone.

Between the two injuries he'll end up working a total of 20 matches for the year.

[albionmoonlight]

This is how long Sting’s been wrestling.

[RainMaker]

Mysterio is going to make everything look good but Logan Paul is good considering how many matches he's had. That was a legit good match and he is a great heel.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Dirtsheets reporting this morning that Danielson is out for the remainder of 2023 after surgery to repair a broken orbital bone.

Between the two injuries he'll end up working a total of 20 matches for the year.

His first match of 2024 will be WK18 against Okada.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And at the conclusion of tonight's War Games, Hell has officially frozen over.

[RainMaker]

AEW isn't dead but it's veering into TNA waters.

[Toddzilla]

Someone should ask Phil how that blood-money covered dick tastes now.

[Mota]

Well at this point, we know what they have. A huge name that can get ratings, who is largely checked out, and below average in actual wrestling ability. This might get him excited for a month or two, until he remembers how much he hates the WWE, and then we'll probably be back to the Punk we had in AEW.

[dubb93]

I would be floored if Punk acted in WWE like he did in AEW. First off he can’t even pretend to be one of the toughest guys in the WWE locker room. If he gets to the frustrated point in WWE he will just walk out again.

[molson]

I still think he's going to get fired and then make a huge AEW return.

That's kind of his thing.

[Ryche]

My guess is this will be something like a 1 1/2 year deal, he goes into the Hall of Fame in 2025 and then becomes a commentator.

[RainMaker]

I think his behavior will be much better in WWE. They don't need him as much as AEW did. If he acts up, they'll just dump him and have a dozen other guys who can fill his place. And while HHH might have been rough to work with as a wrestler, it seems like most wrestlers like him as a booker.

Plus, this is his last chance at a payday. I don't think he'll ever go back to AEW or find another outlet that can pay as much as WWE. This also allows him to make some money on their video games, documentaries, toys, Hall of Fame, merch, etc. Even if he is cooked in the ring, that's a lot of money to be made just on his name and personality alone.

[Toddzilla]

His contract (purportedly) stipulates he's got to behave, no backstage antics.

That, to me, just gives him an out. The minute he gets tired, restless, or just want's to go, all he has to do is take a swing at someone and he's done.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Plus, this is his last chance at a payday.

Yeah, this. Punk is all about one thing and one thing only now. Getting paid.

[miami_fan]

Tammy 'Sunny' Sytch gets 17 years for deadly drunk-driving crash

[RainMaker]

She looks like Greg "The Hammer" Valentine.

[miami_fan]

I saw another article that had a side by side with one of those pics and the HOF induction ceremony. That ceremony was on April 2, 2011. That has been a hard twelve years for Tammy.

[Toddzilla]

2 decades of drinking and driving does that to a person

[molson]

She put on all of that weight in jail since she was arrested. She's been in custody almost the whole time since last year.

She didn't look good when she killed the guy, but, she was at least 60 pounds thinner.

I'm not sure what to make of that. People don't usually gain a ton of weight in custody. Maybe it's from being off whatever drug cocktail supplement steroid mix that kept her weight down.

[Toddzilla]

I hear they serve a mean pepper steak in the Cook County slammer

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

She looks like Greg "The Hammer" Valentine.

Greg Valentine and Steven Tyler are charter members of the Men Who Look Like Old Lesbians All Stars

[GrantDawg]

I don't follow wrestling so I don't keep up on this thread, but have you guys had a discussion yet on the upcoming movie "The Iron Claw" about the Von Erich brothers? I hadn't heard anything about it till I saw a preview, but OMG! I'm so in for this. When I was a kid, they were THE guys.

[cartman]

yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. I always watched World Class Championship Wrestling on the weekends when I was a kid

[molson]

I posted about it a bit ago - loved the trailer, it's getting good reviews, I can't wait to see it.

Like with most movies like this though, I have heard that wrestling fans shouldn't expect it to be a completely accurate telling of the Von Erich story.

If you already know the story, the movie is going to seem incomplete, with lots of things left out and many things changed. But if you can keep the "based on" concept in mind it seems like everyone likes it. 90% positive on rotten tomatoes so far. I've read people in wrestling who have seen it, most say it is good but feels too short.

[RainMaker]

Aren't they leaving the youngest one out of the movie altogether?

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Aren't they leaving the youngest one out of the movie altogether?

From what I can see Chris isn't cast. I wonder if there will be references to him in the movie? It was pretty bleak when he was wrestling.

[SirFozzie]

United Japan Pro Wrestling is a thing (it's NJPW+9 other promotions)

NOAH, NJPW, AJPW, DDT Pro, Ganbare, Big Japan, DRAGONGATE, TJPW, STARDOM

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

From what I can see Chris isn't cast. I wonder if there will be references to him in the movie? It was pretty bleak when he was wrestling.

They left him out to streamline the story. I hate when movies do that, but I guess it is the reality of trying to get story to fit in a time restricted space.

[molson]

Maybe would have worked better as a Netflix mini-series, but I get that you can't fit it all in 2 hours and have to make choices

But the whole idea that you're making a movie about a depressing Texas wrestling family and have to cut out a whole tragedy that is arguably the worst one, and you feel like you have enough tragedy already, is bonkers. But on the other hand, no matter what, you have to make massive cuts to fit this story into a movie.

[Carman Bulldog]

An excerpt from an interview with the film's writer Sean Durkin where he discusses both the lack of Chris and not making it a series...

I do want to ask about Chris Von Erich, who isn’t in the movie, but also died tragically. I do understand from a narrative standpoint why you couldn’t include him, but how much did you struggle with that?

So much.

Because this movie’s going to be the legacy of that family. And for a lot of people, this is going to be their only entryway into that. I don’t know how you balance making a good movie versus people who won’t know about Chris.

It’s really difficult. I’ve never had a more difficult decision to make as a writer. I care so deeply, so it was painful. But you have to make tough decisions and you have to do what’s best to get the film made. I wrote this script for seven years and Chris was in it for a long time. So there was a point where it became clear that if you separate yourself from the emotional connection to the family and to real life, you have to separate and say, okay, well, this is a movie, these are characters, and the movie just cannot withstand another death at that point in the movie.

It became that simple, which is so difficult from a human level, and that was what you grapple with. But from a storytelling perspective, it was right because the film, it wasn’t about just the grief. It wasn’t about the loss. It’s about the absence of grief and the resurrection and how Kevin gets through it. Also, just the nature of their deaths were very similar – all three brothers who committed suicide. So Chris made it into the film in the sense that the character of Mike is a combination of Mike and Chris in some ways.

Right. Because in real life, Mike’s kind of a big guy, but in this movie he’s smaller, like Chris.

Yeah, yeah. And Mike was an incredible athlete as well. He wasn’t great in the ring, but he was an athlete. So there was just a bit more of that with Chris.

When you told Kevin that you had to cut Chris from the movie, how did he react?

So it’s funny, one of the reasons I didn’t reach out to Kevin too soon was because I knew I had to make difficult decisions. Coming into it as a fan, I love the guy. So I didn’t want to meet him and love him even more, which is what would’ve happened, because you need to keep some distance and you need to do what’s best for the film. So I didn’t reach out to him until I knew what film I was making. At that point, I had made the decision about Chris, and there was other stuff, too. David had a daughter that died. Kerry had a family. There’s a lot of things that we had to take out to fit it into telling a story in a film.

So I started talking to Kevin when we were in prep and had an ongoing conversation while we were shooting and told him about the story, told him what we were focusing on, and we had a really good communication. Then, finally, the week before showing him the movie, we did a big family Zoom. I’d talked to a lot of them individually, but it was like me and their whole family got together and we Zoomed. I wanted to tell them, okay, these are some of the hardest decisions I made, and this is why. I told him about Chris. And just immediately, Kevin was like, “That makes sense.”

I think how Kevin feels is Kevin survived and he hoped that this movie was going to be about the love of brothers and survival. The message that he lives by is that no matter what, even on your darkest day, you keep fighting, life is worth it. That’s what he talks about a lot. I think he just hoped the movie would be that. So when I told him about Chris and some of the other cuts, he was just totally supportive. He was like, “Yeah, absolutely, it seems like the right choice,” which was a huge relief because I spent a really long time fretting that conversation.

If he would have disagreed did he have any power to stop it?

No. No. I just did my best to communicate with them and build the relationship and talk them through everything. Yeah, we’ve become quite close.

When writing this, you had so much to work with, did you ever consider making it a series?

Definitely. The writing process is long. And as you’re writing it you are aware of what’s getting made, what isn’t getting made, and you explore ideas. It’s like, do we transition? Do we try to look at a limited series or something? But, ultimately, I think when I started writing this I felt like it was a movie. I don’t know why. Sometimes I just feel that.

Television was still pretty daring at that point. By the time the conversation came up a couple of years later about whether should we pivot to TV, I was just like, no, television is not a place where interesting things can be explored in an honest way. The balance has tipped back where I feel like television, it’s so bogged down in executives in fear of their jobs as opposed to executives excited by the possibility of how challenging something could be. I feel like, for a while, movies were that and television was this place where you could really explore and do something challenging, and now the balance is back in the film world. I just don’t think that anyone would’ve made this as an interesting series.

Also, a review that references having to scale back the amount of family tragedy so that the story would be believable...

A true-life American tragedy that leverages the summery Texas idyll of “Dazed & Confused” into a larger than life — but heartbreakingly sincere — re-telling of “King Lear,” “The Iron Claw” is a wrestling epic inspired by a legend so sad that writer-director Sean Durkin felt like he had to sand it down in order for it to seem believable on screen. Inverting the fake it so real ethos of a sport that’s long been enjoyed as a form of steroidal theater (its operatic melodrama sustained by the exaggerated nature of its spectacle and vice-versa), Durkin’s film dials back the body count so that the scale of its loss doesn’t make it impossible for audiences to accept that it actually happened, or to exalt in the love that it ultimately left behind.

[GrantDawg]

I was thinking early on that they cut Chris' death because real life seemed too extreme. I don't know what that says about the family that their tragedy is beyond believable fiction.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Breaking news tonight in NJPW

"Effective December 23, Takami Ohbari and Michiaki Nishizawa will step down from their positions as President/Representative Director and Director respectively".

The new President of NJPW? Hiroshi Tanahashi

And, given the history and all, this doesn't feel like a work nor a figurehead thing.

[SirFozzie]

related to Okada possibly leaving?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

related to Okada possibly leaving?

One of many things yet TBD

Here in the batcave we've talked numerous times about the things that we'll never know for sure (due to the close mouthed nature of wrestling in Japan)

For example: did Ohbari advocate throwing a Brinks truck at Okada and the board said "excuse me, have you seen the yen lately?" OR the opposite, did Ohbari want to let him walk and the board said "excuse me, do you know who Okada IS?"

The one that affects most as a viewer perhaps is what does this do to the booking? It feels like the booking has been whatever Gedo wants under the previous regime. Does Tana take a more active role in at least saying yes/no to specific ideas, programs, etc?

[Mota]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Breaking news tonight in NJPW

"Effective December 23, Takami Ohbari and Michiaki Nishizawa will step down from their positions as President/Representative Director and Director respectively".

The new President of NJPW? Hiroshi Tanahashi

And, given the history and all, this doesn't feel like a work nor a figurehead thing.

That's pretty insane. Stardom also changed their leadership a few weeks ago, seems like the owners aren't too happy with how things are going.

In other news, has any tag team member benefitted from an injured partner as much as Kyle Fletcher from Aussie Open? The guy has looked amazing as a singles performer. Also, his match at ROH Final Battle against Kommander was pretty insane.

[JonInMiddleGA]

f4wonline.com

Meltzer writes:

Another key reason has been that there were issues with staff members and Ohbari’s usage of power over them. Another major reason was that Ohbari had heat with a number of people, including the company’s top star, Kazuchika Okada. Okada was said to have wanted him out. Others said that Ohbari never really understood the wrestling business and didn’t respect the value of Okada. One person said that Ohbari saw Okada as the lead role actor in a touring show.

[SirFozzie]

AEW has had more botches/awkward spots at World's End then their last five PPV's combined.

[RainMaker]

I think it was Bischoff who said AEW is TNA but live in big arenas.

[RainMaker]

Also the Edge and Christian match was incredible even if they did a dumb twist at the end. Saw someone mention that Edge has entered his Perc Angle phase.

[RainMaker]

Not sure if Ibushi is legit hurt but that was a rough watch.

[SirFozzie]

In what's a set back for all involved, apparently a wrestling writer insinuated that Chris Jericho was abusive and a bad person (which may or may not be true), but the internet tried to connect-the-dots with tweets and likes turned into "Chris Jericho tried to be a sexual predator to a young female wrestler in AEW", which caused lots of hassle (and was the reason Jericho was chanted at/boo'd at World's End).

Now the writer is backtracking on his tweets and the conjecture is falling apart, but the damage has been done, probably to all sides. If the story isn't true (and it doesn't seem like it is), the next predator wrestling story will automagically be seen as false/damaging, which is the last thing that vulnerable people need.

[RainMaker]

And no one mentioned that The Rock made an appearance last night and is maybe teasing a match with Roman at Wrestlemania,

[Mota]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

And no one mentioned that The Rock made an appearance last night and is maybe teasing a match with Roman at Wrestlemania,

That would be really cool, but isn't Cody currently supposed to get that match?

I've got my tickets for both Wrestlemania nights. I still don't like WWE, but I'm watching the PPV's so that I'll at least know what I'm watching. Mostly I'm going for my son who is going to be 20 and it could be the last big trip we go on together.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Not sure if Ibushi is legit hurt but that was a rough watch.

I just watched the match, Ibushi was in no shape to wrestle. He was a danger to Marafuji, almost dropped him on his head a few times because his ankle was giving out on him as soon as he would lift Marafuji up.

Then he is dumb enough to do a moonsault out of the ring, and hurt his other ankle. He could barely put any weight on the one foot already, which is probably why he hurt the other foot.

Props to Marafuji for SO CAREFULLY lifting him up for several moves, and carefully placing him on his back without any impact to the injured feet/ankles.

Ibushi should probably take another year off or retire, I'm sure that this is not the Ibushi that Tony Khan thought he was getting.

[SirFozzie]

There's no words to express the dive on NXT tonight.

https://twitter.com/WWE/status/1742356670674559336

I want to nickname it the Tope con YEET-lo.

what do you call it anyway? A rope-lift springboard dive?

edit:If it wasn't for the fact that helmets are very hard plastic, before they do that again, they should have him put on a jet pilot helmet and salute the launchers like they're in top gun.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Mota

That would be really cool, but isn't Cody currently supposed to get that match?

I've got my tickets for both Wrestlemania nights. I still don't like WWE, but I'm watching the PPV's so that I'll at least know what I'm watching. Mostly I'm going for my son who is going to be 20 and it could be the last big trip we go on together.

I think Cody is firmly plan B after The Rock came out last night and said he’s going out to eat and he’s going to sit at the head of the table.

Cody also was a Vince hire and since Vince has left creative Cody has gone from programs with Rollins, Reigns, and Brock to tag/multi man matches and Nakamura.

[RainMaker]

I'm guessing Cody was the plan but if you can get the Rock, you get the Rock. Bad luck for him but this is a massive match up.

[JonInMiddleGA]

New Japan Pro Wrestling presents Wrestle Kingdom 18 live from the Tokyo Dome. |
njpwworld dot com has the coverage (including English commentary) starting at 230a (Eastern U.S.)

As is tradition, the pre-show features the New Japan Ranbo (think "battle royale") with the final four going into a match the next day for the 2024 KOPW Title.

And from there, a hot start and a hot finish with some potential to drag a bit in the middle

IWGP Jr. HEAVYWEIGHT TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH
Catch 2/2 (Francesco Akira & TJ Perkins) vs War Dogs (Maloney & Connors) (C)

NJPW WORLD TV CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Zack Sabre, Jr (C)

SPECIAL SINGLE MATCH
Yota Tsuji vs Yuya Uemura

SPECIAL TAG MATCH
Kaito Kiyomiya & Shota Umino vs EVIL and Ren Narita

NEVER OPENWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH
Tama Tonga vs Shingo Takagi (C)

IWGP TAG TEAM & STRONG OPENWEIGHT TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH
Bishimon (Yoshi-Hashi & Goto) vs El Phantasmo & Hikuleo (C)

IWGP Jr. HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH
Hiromu Takashi vs El Desperado

IWGP GLOBAL HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP/INAUGURAL CHAMPION 3-WAY MATCH
Will Ospreay vs Jon Moxley vs David Finlay

SPECIAL SINGLE MATCH
Kazuchika Okada vs Bryan Danielson

IWGP WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH
Tetsuya Naito vs Sanada (C)

[JonInMiddleGA]

No shortage of storylines again this year, though maybe not the consistency in them I might wish for.

War Dogs are brilliantly hatable as dastardly heels, Akira plays the underdog well here ... but my gut wonders if there's going to be a TJP turn in the offing

The newly appointed (real-life) company President & Ace of NJPW Tanahashi vs the only TV champion in history

The breakout star of the youngsters Tsuji against perhaps the guy youngster doing more than anyone expected in Uemura

Kiyomia & Shooter against their rivals across two companies, including the newly heel-turned Narita

Tag belts up for grabs, pity I don't find myself able to get excited.

Hiromu vs Despy, where a win for Despy might cement him as the new face of the Junior Division and free Hiromu to move up to heavyweight (though honestly the Ticking Time Bomb hasn't looked great for most of the past year, have time & mileage taken their toll?)

The three-way match for a new title belt could be very good but is also a helluva mess. You have the best wrestler on the planet in 2023 Ospreay, who has already signed to AEW. You have Moxley who is already AEW. And you have the only NJPW roster member Finlay, who has felt like nothing short of an underwhelming mistake as the leader of Bullet Club. There isn't a really good outcome here no matter what they do afaic.

Okada vs Danielson should be an entertaining as hell war.

And will the main event finally give the fans what they've waited so long for, the LIJ roll call in the Tokyo Dome? Or will the surprisingly disappointing title run for Sanada continue? A great case of waiting too long too pull the trigger on Sanada PLUS him being underwhelming at best as a champion. I want that Naito moment ... I'm just not certain at all we're going to get it.

[RainMaker]

Those last 3 matches should be incredible. Rest of the card isn't bad either.