Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Those last 3 matches should be incredible. Rest of the card isn't bad either.

I'm not looking forward to trying to stay engaged during the middle of the card honestly ... cause that should hit around 330a-430a.

This is basically our Super Bowl in the batcave every year now. Paired with New Year Dash the following night -- which is usually entertaining and enlightening, especially for undercard feuds -- it's an extravaganza.

But back to back overnighters/allnighters are a grind at my age.

[RainMaker]

I'll be watching on delay and hoping not to come across any spoilers online till then.

[RainMaker]

I also think Ospreay wins the belt. I know he's AEW bound, but still seems like he cares a lot about NJPW and wants to continue working with them at times.

Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like this is a title meant to be a title that is defended around the world and in other promotions from time to time. Similar in a way to the US title it's replacing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I also think Ospreay wins the belt. I know he's AEW bound, but still seems like he cares a lot about NJPW and wants to continue working with them at times.

Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like this is a title meant to be a title that is defended around the world and in other promotions from time to time. Similar in a way to the US title it's replacing.

I'm just pretty much never a fan of putting a belt on someone that isn't under contract to you. It makes you look cheap ... but NJPW seems determined to whore themselves as much as possible soooooo ...

Most than likely just an angle but the recent Naito stuff about (paraphrasing) how the company needs to have a little more self respect and respect for their own workers rings very true to me. And I've watched them less in 2023 than I have any time in the last 5-6 years in part because of this very thing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Watching ELP torment the poor translator in the WK pre-show press conference might be one of the most entertaining things I've seen in a while.

It's gold ... interesting to see him re-embrace his heel delivery too

[JonInMiddleGA]

English feed crashed twice (including the entire Ranbo), third time around the audio was a second ahead of the video, thereby you heard the pin before you saw it.

We finally gave up and switched to the Japanese commentary.

The new app is absolute shit - and has been since roll out - and yet again the English feed is broken, an increasingly common problem.

It ought to be fucking embarrassing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hey, whaddya know. The audio/video English are synched on PC through the website.

Unlike the piece of trash app.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And FML, Tama Tonga confirms (in the post-match presser) that January is his final month with NJPW "wants to work somewhere closer to his family"

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well alrighty then ... I personally didn't have Matt Riddle to NJPW on my bingo card for 2024.

Hat tip to the pundits who DID call this (including Super J-Cast who called it about three weeks ago)

[RainMaker]

I guess Dolph Ziggler might be NJPW too? Solid in-ring guy. I also think Riddle will do well.

Thought the show was great. Not usually a fan of triple-threat matches, but that was pretty damn good. Maybe the mix of all 3 styles made it more enjoyable. Sad to hear Tama Tonga is leaving, felt like he was really hitting a stride.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I guess Dolph Ziggler might be NJPW too? Solid in-ring guy. I also think Riddle will do well.

Yeah, looks like Ziggler will open up feuding with Finlay over that new title at least in the short term. Which is fine, I think that's the right place for him right now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Link is simply one of the many clips of this online, added for convenience.
https://twitter.com/KXNGAO/status/1747799819827941812

Mark Briscoe spoke tonight on the one year anniversary of his brother's death. Joining him, well, there ain't been a better surprise appearance in a loooong time.

[Mota]

I've thought about that family many times since that accident. That's great great news.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Link is simply one of the many clips of this online, added for convenience.
https://twitter.com/KXNGAO/status/1747799819827941812

Mark Briscoe spoke tonight on the one year anniversary of his brother's death. Joining him, well, there ain't been a better surprise appearance in a loooong time.

Beautiful, thanks for sharing

[RainMaker]

That is really good to see. I remember after the accident it sounded like she'd never walk again and was getting some kind of spinal surgery. Bless those girls.

[JonInMiddleGA]

https://twitter.com/njpwglobal/statu...63432787202212

[Mota]

Okada will never be the main guy in the US like he is in NJPW. I think there's a better chance that he gets used better in the WWE than when McMahon was in charge. AEW seems to be a much better fit though.

Time for NJPW to start elevating some of their excellent young talent. This is definitely a time when having such a great development system can help.

[RainMaker]

Not really sure where he should go in the United States. I think WWE has been much better with Hunter in charge and would probably make him out to be a star. But the main event scene in WWE is pretty stacked at the moment. AEW doesn't seem to know what the hell they're doing so that's just a total crapshoot.

Sad news because I still think NJPW is the best home for Okada.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

Okada will never be the main guy in the US like he is in NJPW. I think there's a better chance that he gets used better in the WWE than when McMahon was in charge. AEW seems to be a much better fit though.

Time for NJPW to start elevating some of their excellent young talent. This is definitely a time when having such a great development system can help.

The problem is, as good a crop of youngsters as they have at the moment, they don't have many legit main events left to put them over & elevate them.

Naito ... what's left of Tanahashi ... and that's about it. Sanada was nothing short of a disappointing disaster as a champ, his best moment was making the save to make sure Naito got to do the roll call.

Ospreay wasn't putting people over on the way out, Okada hasn't done it for one of the leading youngsters in singles

3-5 years, yes, the great group could have been ready to not just be in main events but to put butts in seats (which is a major need for NJPW). As it stands now?

I think there's legit question about whether they're a major league promotion much longer. Instead, they're just a developmental that bends over happily for anyone who has $5 and a TV deal.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Netflix will be the new home of Monday Night Raw in the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, and Latin America, among other countries, from January 2025, WWE have announced today. This will be the first time in the show's 31-year history that Raw hasn't aired on linear TV in the United States.

For UK and international fans, Netflix will also become the home of all WWE shows, including SmackDown, NXT, and premium live events beginning in 2025. WWE documentaries and original series will be available on Netflix internationally from 2025.

https://cultaholic.com/posts/wwe-raw...flix-from-2025

[molson]

Definitely a pretty big event in sports broadcasting history. Everybody was so excited to "cut the cord", now we're going to have to live with life on the other side like playoff games and maybe entire sports going behind different streaming services.

Maybe someday all of these different servers will be distributed as "channels" by a distribution entity who bundles them at a reduced rate and we'll come full circle.

[RainMaker]

Aren't we at a point where Netflix has close to as many subscribers as there are cable customers in the United States?

I guess it'll be weird at first but their big shows are already on Peacock.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Aren't we at a point where Netflix has close to as many subscribers as there are cable customers in the United States?

I guess it'll be weird at first but their big shows are already on Peacock.

Yes ... and no.

Traditional cable access to USA Network is lower than Netflix reported U.S. subs.

Add in other access points to USA Network (YouTube TV, Hulu, etc etc etc) and it's a drop off of about 15 million households.

Where the difference will be spotted is almost certainly the "coveted 18-49 demographic" vs "total viewers". My estimatation is that they'll retain a good portion of the 18-49 but take a big hit on total audience. This move seems to suggest, IMO, that they really don't give a damn whether anybody outside the key demo watches their programming or not.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by molson

Definitely a pretty big event in sports broadcasting history. Everybody was so excited to "cut the cord", now we're going to have to live with life on the other side like playoff games and maybe entire sports going behind different streaming services.

Maybe someday all of these different servers will be distributed as "channels" by a distribution entity who bundles them at a reduced rate and we'll come full circle.

This is what people called for. People wanted "ala carte" channels so they only paid for exactly the channels they wanted. Well, here it is. Chase and keep up with the 8-10 different services.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

This is what people called for. People wanted "ala carte" channels so they only paid for exactly the channels they wanted. Well, here it is. Chase and keep up with the 8-10 different services.

I tried to tell people, but nooooooo ....

[dubb93]

I’m not thrilled with this move but the one good news is that WWE just sold their international PLE rights through 2034 which to me means that the rumblings that they may start trying to sell some PLEs as pay per views in the future were probably bogus.

I just hope that not matter what they end up doing that we don’t end up losing the back catalog once the Peacock deal goes belly up (in 2026?)

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I tried to tell people, but nooooooo ....

I knew as well. I guess if you don't care for sports or live events, you can save lots of money just having one subscription service. But if you are a sports fan....

[molson]

$5 billion for 10 years. For one weekly wrestling show.

Makes you wonder what, say, the entire NFL would be worth for a streaming service. Or even just the entire WWE.

Edit: I guess the deal also includes rights to other WWE shows and PPVs outside the U.S. Which really expands their international reach, they will exclusively carry the entire the WWE product in the U.K. and other places, which, it sounds like those fans are pretty excited about.

[RainMaker]

It's probably a good deal for both sides. WWE gets a ton of money. I know the argument has been that getting off regular TV limits your reach. But I also feel like you're either in on wrestling or you're not. That casual audience that was around in the attitude era doesn't exist. WWE has its loyal few million people in the United States who will tune in no matter what.

Netflix gets those few million people locked in. They're also getting 150+ hours of content. And while the price is high, this is a company that routinely dumps $100+ million on some shitty movie that everyone forgets about after a weekend. It also seems like they'll be making and including some documentaries they own (the stuff A&E puts out) which kind of fits Netflix mold of crap I can watch in the background.

Anyway, it's good to be in the live content business it seems.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

Makes you wonder what, say, the entire NFL would be worth for a streaming service. Or even just the entire WWE.

I don't know if it's more valuable split up or as a whole, but the NFL is getting $13.3 billion a year in broadcasting revenue in the United States.

Crazy when you consider that's just 22 weeks a year worth of content plus the Draft and whatever else.

[dubb93]

I would just about anything Netflix plans to open the checkbook again once the Peacock deal is up for the PLEs and the network content.

[RainMaker]

I have to imagine Peacock would be interested in keeping the PLEs and network content. Their streaming service is pretty barren without WWE content.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I have to imagine Peacock would be interested in keeping the PLEs and network content. Their streaming service is pretty barren without WWE content.

I would agree, but last I saw Peacock was bleeding money(the service is expected to lose 3 billion dollars in 2023.)

At some point, probably before 2026, they are going to have to ask some serious questions about the service if it continues to be that far in the red.

[SirFozzie]

Suzuki and Copeland spent 12-15 minutes beating the absolute dogshit out of each other.

It ruled.

[Mota]

There's a quote from Meltzer saying that AEW's attendance numbers are starting to look like WCW 2000. PPV's are selling, big events are selling, but the attendance numbers for regular shows is dropping.

It's tough because their biggest angle fell apart because both wrestlers got injured. It's hard to pull off the devil angle when the main bad guy is still out for several months. And then once the turn officially happens, MJF is also out with injury for unknown amount of time. So it's like the story just died on the vine.

I'm a big AEW fan, but even I admit that it's been a bit dull lately. The matches have been good, but they really need to make some big moments that will get people talking again.

[molson]

Lawsuit filed against Vince and the WWE today, some lurid allegations in there.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/re...157647.1.0.pdf

"As one example of McMahon’s extreme depravity, on May 9, 2020, he defecated on Ms. Grant during a threesome, and then commanded her to continue pleasuring his “friend”— with feces in her hair and running down her back—while McMahon went to the bathroom to shower off. Upon his return from the bathroom, McMahon and his “friend” actively resumed the threesome, which lasted over an hour and a half, while Ms. Grant remained covered in McMahon’s filth. When McMahon’s “friend” left, McMahon ordered her to stay and to continue to sexually gratify him"

[Mota]

Wow, this is basically the Weinstein story again. Somehow McMahon always escapes unscathed. Hopefully that won't happen this time, sometimes you need to be accountable for your actions.

[Schmidty]

How do those sick, depraved old fucks do these kind of things?

I blame Viagra and psychopathy.

[Ghost Econ]

Netflix picked a great time to give him a billion dollars.

[RainMaker]

Those text messages are a rough read. Good lord.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

Netflix picked a great time to give him a billion dollars.

He doesn't own the company anymore, and he even retired for a bit, but, always manages to weasel his way back. He's Executive Chairman of the combined UFC/WWE company now, not sure exactly what has to happen to untie themselves of that.

Netflix is also producing a Vince doc series, I hope nothing happens to that. According to Dave Meltzer, who they interviewed for it, they were at least asking questions about EVERYTHING. But who knows if Netflix wants that near them now, or if it matters if Vince is really gone for good.

[dubb93]

The texts are going to bring him down for sex trafficking. How liable is endeavor going to end up being I wonder? Also Brock Lesnar. I imagine we don’t see much of him for a long long while.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Mota

There's a quote from Meltzer saying that AEW's attendance numbers are starting to look like WCW 2000. PPV's are selling, big events are selling, but the attendance numbers for regular shows is dropping.

It's tough because their biggest angle fell apart because both wrestlers got injured. It's hard to pull off the devil angle when the main bad guy is still out for several months. And then once the turn officially happens, MJF is also out with injury for unknown amount of time. So it's like the story just died on the vine.

I'm a big AEW fan, but even I admit that it's been a bit dull lately. The matches have been good, but they really need to make some big moments that will get people talking again.

Their PPVs are usually really good. They have great wrestlers on the roster and let them go at the big shows. Everything else sucks though.

Storylines are boring and predictable. I'm not keeping up with 4 or 5 shows including whatever the hell they're doing with ROH. There's like 20 titles in the company which devalues them all.

Tony has shot himself in the foot a bunch but I think what has hurt them the most is that HHH is the best booker out there right now. AEW looked great next to the slop Vince was throwing out. But now they feel like old TNA.

[AlexB]

So Mr McMahon wasn’t just a character, wow.

Casts the whole humiliating Trish Stratus storyline in a different light.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Their PPVs are usually really good. They have great wrestlers on the roster and let them go at the big shows. Everything else sucks though.

Storylines are boring and predictable. I'm not keeping up with 4 or 5 shows including whatever the hell they're doing with ROH. There's like 20 titles in the company which devalues them all.

Tony has shot himself in the foot a bunch but I think what has hurt them the most is that HHH is the best booker out there right now. AEW looked great next to the slop Vince was throwing out. But now they feel like old TNA.

This, this and this

[Toddzilla]

Sadly, this lawsuit only makes Lesnar to AEW *more* likely, not less

[SirFozzie]

Only tangentally related to prowres, but just posted this to DVDVR:

Here's something to make y'all feel old.

I came across a video showing all of the signature moves from the first great pro wrestling game I ever played, NES Pro Wrestling.


I want you to look at the bios for the thing that will make you feel old.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TbWiimPthU


Yes, all the wrestlers are in their 70's and 80's (well, except for the Amazon and Starman, nobody knows how old they are.)

I figure that Starman has El Nieto del Starman wrestling in a bunch of Lucha Libre indies, King Slender got caught in the steroid trials of the 90's, Giant Panther is puttering around in retirement (and has offered his brain for CTE study post-mortem due to all the unprotected headbutts he gave out), and The Amazon had his final retirement ceremony a few years back after which he ran around the ring biting and choking folks, having to be dragged away.

(and have you EVER, EVER hit a Back Brain Kick?)

[albionmoonlight]

Back before there was a term for video game challenges, I would try and win a match using only the back brain kick.

[albionmoonlight]

dola: And I LOVE your "where are they now" assessment. Spot on!

[dubb93]

Great wrestling games we went from this game to the WWE arcade games to Saturday Night Slamasters to the N64 WCW games which started the more modern take. Am I missing any games in there?