Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Let's just say *not at any point did anyone say* Cody wasn't going to face Roman at this year's WrestleMania. I know this is 100% semantics, but the Rock didn't challenge anyone, he just showed up. No one said the Rock was even there to wrestle, so there is still a path for those who feel strongly that Cody can only finish his story one way - beating Roman Reigns in the main even of WrestleMania to win the WWE Championship.

When you're a face, never make a promise that you won't keep. So if you say you're going to finish the story, which is beating Roman at WrestleMania, then you need to do it, or you lose cred.

Also, CM Punk is currently taking his exact same career trajectory that he had in AEW. He's currently in the injured, and saying the locker room is amazing part of the trajectory.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Also, if this has anything to do with CM Punk getting hurt and leaving Rollins with no WM match, is anyone really surprised that Punk showed up an immediately took a gigantic shit all over everything?

I can't imagine the WWE wanting to build important storylines around him at this point, being so injury-prone and also just bad in the ring now, and having so much other talent to utilize, but, I kind of hope they do just for the drama. Old broken down Punk brings all kinds of new potential for disaster for whomever employs him.

[dubb93]

The “story” started long before Roman. I don’t understand how the story became about beating Roman and not fulfilling a boyhood dream and taking a title for Dusty.

Ironically, the last champion Dusty ever knew was Seth. Seth won the title at WM 31 and still held it at the time of Dusty’s death. Roman never held the title during Dusty’s lifetime.

[RainMaker]

I think this is a huge mistake. It buries Cody for being a loser who just gives up his shot at Roman for no apparent reason. Especially after spending years talking about finishing the story.

I also think it hurts The Rock who some fans are going to be upset with for taking Cody's spot. I think his reaction will still be positive, but we've seen how crowds can turn when they think someone behind the scenes is getting something they don't deserve.

The show will be huge and interest in The Rock wrestling will be massive. I'm sure it'll get tons of coverage and eyeballs. Long term, I think it hurts the company by killing your top babyface all for a one-off appearance.

The better approach would have been The Rock as special referee. The guy who makes Roman fight by himself. Would still get tons of interest in his appearance and not kill your top babyface.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by dubb93

The “story” started long before Roman. I don’t understand how the story became about beating Roman and not fulfilling a boyhood dream and taking a title for Dusty.

Ironically, the last champion Dusty ever knew was Seth. Seth won the title at WM 31 and still held it at the time of Dusty’s death. Roman never held the title during Dusty’s lifetime.

Seth's title is secondary. It's not the WWE Championship. It's not the title held by someone for nearly 4 years.

Plus, they already had a feud. Cody won every match, including with a torn pec. What's the sell here? Cody fights for a belt that has existed for less than a year against a guy he has beaten a bunch?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Watching minor league hockey last night on TV (Gwinnett vs South Carolina ECHL), a break in the action, and in the background what music do we hear?

Cody Rhodes theme "Kingdom".

It played long enough for us to hear that, yes, at least a smattering of the crowd did the appropriate "whoaohohhhhhh" response.

It seems like a really small thing BUT ... how many other wrestler themes (that weren't songs in another context) have you heard played at sporting events? It's a short list.

[Toddzilla]

someone tweeted that all Cody has to do the next time he's in the ring for a promo is his "So, what do you want to talk about?" shtick and the place will come unglued.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Watching minor league hockey last night on TV (Gwinnett vs South Carolina ECHL), a break in the action, and in the background what music do we hear?

Cody Rhodes theme "Kingdom".

It played long enough for us to hear that, yes, at least a smattering of the crowd did the appropriate "whoaohohhhhhh" response.

It seems like a really small thing BUT ... how many other wrestler themes (that weren't songs in another context) have you heard played at sporting events? It's a short list.

From the top of my head:

SCSA
Undertaker (heard this a few nights ago at a college basketball game)
Cena (all the damn time)
HHH

and talk about out of left field....https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCirc...e_wolves_game/

all Attitude Era, hmmmm

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

From the top of my head:

SCSA
Undertaker (heard this a few nights ago at a college basketball game)
Cena (all the damn time)
HHH

and talk about out of left field....Blocked

all Attitude Era, hmmmm

But out of the hundreds, even thousands, of themes they don't go beyond wrestling very often.

And that's pretty rarified company this would be in when you look at the list you mention.

[RainMaker]

Cena is the only one I can remember ever hearing at a game.

[Mota]

Bryan Danielson's YES chant was everywhere for a few years.

[dubb93]

Just going to link this here because it makes alot of sense. As I said earlier, I'm clearly in the minority of fans on this and this is a surefire solution to the issue that has been created:

hxxps://pwinsider.com/article/179983/hey-rock-if-you-really-are-the-peoples-champion-you-still-have-time-to-do-the-right-thing-for-the-people-you-claim-you-represent.html

[JonInMiddleGA]

Bushi Road fires Rossy Ogawa, claiming he was "poaching" wrestlers from the Stardom roster.

from their official statement

Since 2019, the Company has entered into the Agreement with Rossy Ogawa, the founder of Stardom, and has invited him to serve as Executive Producer and has entrusted him with Stardom-related tasks. However, we have recently become aware that Mr. Rossy Ogawa has been poaching a number of Stardom athletes and staff members, and we have decided to terminate this agreement.

We sincerely apologize for any concern this may have caused. We, the players and staff of Stardom, will continue to make concerted efforts to further develop Stardom and to deliver excitement to our fans.

An interesting sidebar to this perhaps is that shortly afterwards Tony Khan tweets "Bye Rossy" with a Larry David gif. And follows that with a gif referring to "industrial espionage".

If I were to try to read between the lines here, I could imagine that means Ogawa was steering workers {cough}Giulia{cough} away from AEW and toward WWE (?)

edit to add: A few people, most notably Sean Ross Sapp, say that rumors about Ogawa being WWE-bound have been circulating behind the scenes for several months

further edit to add: fwiw, Wrestling Observer says nope, Ogawa isn't going to WWE. So {shrug} who knows atm.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Henare vs Gabe Kidd from Feb 4th (NJPW Road To New Beginning) was a first-rate slugfest, Tomohiro Ishii caliber stuff ... and that's not praise I toss around lightly.

Well done, well booked, it's only February but that might just turn out to be the hardest hitting match of 2024.

If that's your sort of thing, I'd highly recommend watching that if you've got NJPWWorld (or if the whole thing ends up posted somewhere). The usual 2 min highlight reel doesn't do it justice honestly.

[Toddzilla]

LOUD "Rocky Sucks" chants on Raw, wow. They are REALLY leaning into this hard.

[RainMaker]

Am I crazy for thinking they should make The Rock the special guest referee and then have Roman/Rock at Mania next year?

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Am I crazy for thinking they should make The Rock the special guest referee and then have Roman/Rock at Mania next year?

Nope. The link I posted the other day explains exactly how and why they should get to that.

[Toddzilla]

.....aaaaand they fucked it all up.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

.....aaaaand they fucked it all up.

How so?

[JonInMiddleGA]

fwiw, Rossy Ogawa confirmed today his intention to start a new promotion.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

fwiw, Rossy Ogawa confirmed today his intention to start a new promotion.

I've been watching Stardom for a bit over a year now and have really enjoyed it. The wrestling is HARD hitting. Probably too hard, based on the number of injuries in 2023. They do seem to have a pretty good developmental system, and are introducing a LOT of new rookies that are getting the "Young Lion" type treatment. But they can't lose 30% of their wrestlers and still be okay.

One of the things that I've found with the company is that they don't really have that structured of a wrestler hierarchy. I mean, there's definitely opening wrestlers, and a few big main event players, but everybody else seems to be fairly equal. You still need a good year to elevate a few of these players to the main event spots, which you don't have if there's an exodus.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Mota

How so?

I was going to say having Drew interrupt blew it, but I've come around on this while situation.

It's 100% a work. If it wasn't:

• They don't emphasize the Cody signs in the crowd
• They don't draw attention to the "Rocky Sucks" chants
• They don't have Drew basically explain the entire situation since Friday in a very favorable manner to Cody
• They don't talk over and over about Cody trending on X
• They *certainly* don't post a "Listen to the Rocky Sucks chants!" on YouTube

It's all a work, Cody will face Roman at WM, I'd bet my house on it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

I've been watching Stardom for a bit over a year now and have really enjoyed it. The wrestling is HARD hitting. Probably too hard, based on the number of injuries in 2023. They do seem to have a pretty good developmental system, and are introducing a LOT of new rookies that are getting the "Young Lion" type treatment. But they can't lose 30% of their wrestlers and still be okay.

One of the things that I've found with the company is that they don't really have that structured of a wrestler hierarchy. I mean, there's definitely opening wrestlers, and a few big main event players, but everybody else seems to be fairly equal. You still need a good year to elevate a few of these players to the main event spots, which you don't have if there's an exodus.

My expectation right now is that, after March, Stardom will largely fold as a promotion, maybe linger as a title occasionally shown on some NJPW shows but that's it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Interesting fun fact about Stardom: the past two fiscal years they've been the more profitable of the two promotions.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

My expectation right now is that, after March, Stardom will largely fold as a promotion, maybe linger as a title occasionally shown on some NJPW shows but that's it.

Do you think they're going to lose that many wrestlers for that to happen?

[JonInMiddleGA]

On an unrelated note, Maxxine Dupri might be the least capable wrestler in the WWE women's division in probably two decades.

She is atrocious.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

Do you think they're going to lose that many wrestlers for that to happen?

I don't think there'll be enough left for it to be anything more than a barely functional mid-grade indy.

I have my doubts that they'd continue with it in any recognizable form if it was reduced to one of the faceless nameless joshi indies.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

On an unrelated note, Maxxine Dupri might be the least capable wrestler in the WWE women's division in probably two decades.

She is atrocious.

Sara Logan is really bad too. Neither have any business in a televised match.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Sara Logan is really bad too. Neither have any business in a televised match.

Fair point.

I was thinking their brief sequence might be the least talented pairing to face off in a looooong time. The male equivalent that came to mind would be Omos vs Khali.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Kid has Raw on when I got back from some errands.

The opening segments were done before I got home so technically that doesn't count.

But with alllllllllllll the resources the WWE has available to them, in over an hour stretch of TV, the best things were Truth doing Truth things and Adam Pearce taking comedy bumps.

That's atrocious, inexcusable really.

[Mota]

I'm really, really trying to watch WWE at least until Wrestlemania since I will be going, but it is soooo hard. It's just such a different presentation than AEW/NJPW/Stardom. I've always said that WWE is the wrestling company for fans that don't like watching wrestling matches.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Mota

I'm really, really trying to watch WWE at least until Wrestlemania since I will be going, but it is soooo hard. It's just such a different presentation than AEW/NJPW/Stardom. I've always said that WWE is the wrestling company for fans that don't like watching wrestling matches.

I agree with that. I think it's gotten a little better with HHH in charge. But the actual wrestling does feel secondary.

It's why AEW has been so frustrating. They seemed like a nice middle ground between what NJPW does and what WWE does. A focus on wrestling but with higher production values and themed more for an American audience. But Tony let his roster walk all over him and the whole company is a mess.

[RainMaker]

Question for everyone about a conversation I had with my girlfriend regarding kayfabe the other day.

Swerve Strickland has built a nice character up. He had a crazy match with Hangman Page a couple months ago. Blood, weapons, all that jazz. Few days after the match he puts out a tweet asking if people would like to see him go on Twitch to breakdown the match. Completely out of the badass character he's been portraying.

It's just one example. It seems like the whole roster is obsessed with appeasing the IWC. You see passive aggressive tweets from wrestlers about politics backstage or star ratings. People doing interviews where they talk about how the sausage is made or complaining about how they aren't on TV enough.

Does that bother anyone else? I get that kayfabe is dead, but I expect you to stay in character a little bit. Like I'm fine with the Undertaker talking about his match with Foley in the Cell today. But I can't imagine if he had done that a week after they had their match. Maybe I'm just being a baby but that is one aspect of AEW that drives me mad.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Question for everyone about a conversation I had with my girlfriend regarding kayfabe the other day.

Swerve Strickland has built a nice character up. He had a crazy match with Hangman Page a couple months ago. Blood, weapons, all that jazz. Few days after the match he puts out a tweet asking if people would like to see him go on Twitch to breakdown the match. Completely out of the badass character he's been portraying.

It's just one example. It seems like the whole roster is obsessed with appeasing the IWC. You see passive aggressive tweets from wrestlers about politics backstage or star ratings. People doing interviews where they talk about how the sausage is made or complaining about how they aren't on TV enough.

Does that bother anyone else? I get that kayfabe is dead, but I expect you to stay in character a little bit. Like I'm fine with the Undertaker talking about his match with Foley in the Cell today. But I can't imagine if he had done that a week after they had their match. Maybe I'm just being a baby but that is one aspect of AEW that drives me mad.

I don't like it when there is a movie out that I want to watch and then I read the spoilers and it ruins the movie. So I've learned to not read spoilers. My friend however likes to know what's going to happen ahead of time - seems weird to me but to each his own. There may or may not be a lesson here you could learn from.

[JonInMiddleGA]

So much for that TNA "return"

Scott D'Amore fired today, talent lied to in a no-questions company meeting and told he "stepped down"

New president for TNA is just the guy in charge of everything else, who basically has the high water mark of being an exec for The Score.

Talent is said to be ... unhappy

I'd be surprised if they aren't in the last days of ROH shape by the end of the year.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'd be surprised if they aren't in the last days of ROH shape by the end of the year.

TNA will outlive us all.

[RainMaker]

Yeah, TNA somehow manages to keep chugging.

Any word on why they fired him?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Yeah, TNA somehow manages to keep chugging.

Any word on why they fired him?

Best anybody can tell it's simply a cost-cutting move. I mean, God forbid anybody with any wrestling background be in an authority position in, you know, a wrestling company.

They used him to sign some people, most likely not any more signings planned so ... bye.

[molson]

We're back to Cody v. Roman

I think I'd prefer a triple threat. Rock seemed like he was building to that with his "Cody Crybabies" stuf this week.

[RainMaker]

This thread is something. Cody seems like a genuinely good dude.

If you want to know the type of man @CodyRhodes (and @WWEBigE )is, he drove 5+ hours the day after Christmas to be in the room with me to tell Brodie Jon was going to pass.

He held him as he cried. Then he took him to the beach and filed kites.

If he’s not the type of human… pic.twitter.com/ovhHp8r2Pp

— Amanda (@MandaLHuber) February 9, 2024

[BYU 14]

I would agree, you never hear a bad word about him and he seems super genuine and down to earth. I have a lotta respect for him.

[JonInMiddleGA]

ZSJ vs Danielson in Osaka was an instant classic.

Couldn't have that match in the U.S. I'm afraid, not with the same reaction, but one helluva match afaic.

[JonInMiddleGA]

New Japan Pro Wrestling held their first cage match in 20 years tonight (well, this morning in the U.S.)

It was like the grittiest indy wrestling meets the heyday of Memphis with an almost unhealthy amount of CZW thrown in.

Not for the squeamish most certainly, but one hell of a spectacle.

[Toddzilla]

With the correct finish, too

[RainMaker]

Don't know if anyone know who this is.

Former wrestler suspected of shooting, killing wife in SE Portland

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Don't know if anyone know who this is.

Former wrestler suspected of shooting, killing wife in SE Portland

Oh for sure. Fairly big name in a couple of the territories before heading to the WWF

[molson]

I remember being pissed off as a kid that Billy Jack Haynes got robbed in TWO intercontinental title matches with Randy Savage. That evil crooked ref Danny Davis bailed Savage out both times.

[SirFozzie]

he screwed over the Portland territory a couple times, first by going to WWF (understandable) and then trying to run outlaw. (from the Grappler's book)

[RainMaker]

Not totally sold on Finlay but this iteration of Bullet Club is pretty cool. Very aggressive.

[Mota]

After having watched WWE TV for the last two weeks, here is my opinion:
- I can't believe that WHAT? is still a thing here. It comes across as so dumb.
- A large portion of the fans seem to be there just to sing along with theme songs. They look more excited about the sing-song than they do about the actual wrestling.
- Other than the dumb Cody/Roman/Rock angle, the storytelling does seem to be better than it was when Vince was in charge.
- There are still too many dumb gimmick characters (Pretty Deadly?)
- They need to create some excitement for the other feuds at Wrestlemania, currently it's a one match show. I guess they want to lay out the most important part first, and will fill it in with the other matches over the next month or so

It's actually watchable though, which is more than I can say about recent years. I'll keep watching through Wrestlemania at least.