Virginia Tech Campus Shut Down - Shooting Incident

[Swaggs]

It really drives home how much we forget how free we are here in the U.S. If someone is not afraid to die, imagine what they could do in a mall or movie theatre or something like that. Pretty damn scary.

[GoldenEagle]

Fox News just said 29 people killed.

Edit - Now at least 32 people killed.

[GoldenEagle]

wade moore, did it have anything to do with people being killed execution style? FOX news seems to be hinting that it happened that way in the Norris Hall. This whole thing is just awful.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Bee

abcnews.com has just updated their story to 29 confirmed dead. I'm hoping their information is wrong.

CNN has been pretty on top of things all-day from what I've seen, including a lot of coverage from the local affiliate.

No updates from the 22 number here, but they also only updated that when the official word came during a press conference.

[Bee]

The local radio station just announced the 32 people killed that Fox News is reporting.

[wade moore]

GE - Yes

CNN is starting to show more and more footage...

Including people being put into ambulances, etc... and there was a shot of an older man (fully white hair) holding a bandage on his arm - so it would seem that at least one injury was a professor or something similar.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Bee

The local radio station just announced the 32 people killed that Fox News is reporting.

I'm not one to normally get into the "Fox News is sensationalistic" thing, but I have to give credit to CNN right now for only reporting things from official sources..

Apparently the rumor I heard is spreading like wildfire, yet not even the slightest mention on CNN.

[wade moore]

Just as I say that, CNN get's irresponsible imo..

Showing kids saying "we're worried about our RA [insert name here] who was in the building but we haven't heard from all day"..

And they said her name..

[Bee]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I'm not one to normally get into the "Fox News is sensationalistic" thing, but I have to give credit to CNN right now for only reporting things from official sources..

Apparently the rumor I heard is spreading like wildfire, yet not even the slightest mention on CNN.

Well, the local radio station reported the number as coming from a police source and being reported from various news agencies, but who knows. Things can get pretty confusing when something like this happens.

[Huckleberry]

Terrible situation. As a University of Texas alumnus the historical footnote of being the location of the deadliest incident in American college history was one I had begrudgingly hoped to keep. My family's thoughts and prayers will be with the entire Virginia Tech community.

[MrBug708]

CNN is getting bombarded with students phone calls

[molson]

The chaos makes inconsistent information totally reasonable. I think, the internet age, we’ve decided we want information quickly above all, and then we’ll sort it out later. Inconsistencies come with that, but shouldn’t be read into or overly criticized. People have actually used inconsistencies in the news after 9/11 as proof of conspiracies. Just because something gets reported, we shouldn’t assume 100% truth of everything the minutes after something happens.

[wade moore]

Wow..

Just turned to Fox News cause CNN was getting repetitve..

Seriously, they just seem to be willing to throw whatever they hear out htere..

FWIW, they are reporting that the gunman was a "Heavily armed Asian Man" and that there are 32 dead.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I'm going to hold off for now.

The info is pretty specific, particularly if someone knows someone involved, and is so detailed that it's quite possibly a rumor that built up in the hysteria and has little to no basis in truth.

I wouldn't mind hearing what you heard because I just heard a rumor of what happened from one of the guys in my office who talked to his son who attends VT. I'm curious if it's similar.

[wade moore]

It seems that what I heard is practically being reported on Fox News, so I don't think there's too much harm in saying it now..

What I heard was:

The guy was looking for a girl (reported on Fox News)
Went to the dorm to find her, the RA wouldn't let him in so he killed her and shot another girl (reported on Fox News)
He then went to this Norris building looking for the girl. Went into the classroom he thought she would be in, had everyone line up on the ground so he could find her, and then proceeded to shoot them "execution style" (some of this, without some of the details, was reported on Fox News)

So..

can't confirm whether it's true, but I've had several people mention pieces of this story enough for me to realize this story is big time out already.. my fiance, who is a teacher here in Williamsburg, heard the story - so it's out there..

I can't claim whether it's true as it came 3rd hand from my Cousin who as far as I know is just hearing it from other students.

[Emiliano]

Aw, s**t, I've just heard about this tragedy on TV. Horrible, horrible. My thoughts for everyone associated with VT.

[Bee]

That's more or less what I heard as well, almost word for word.

edit: The only thing that I heard that you didn't mention was supposedly the girl he was looking for had cheated on him.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Bee

That's more or less what I heard as well, almost word for word.

edit: The only thing that I heard that you didn't mention was supposedly the girl he was looking for had cheated on him.

I've heard that elsewhere, but not in the original story that I heard.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

This is sad. But reveals how really insecure anywhere in the world can be. I mean, there isn't a whole lot stopping things like this from happening on campuses and I really would worry about copycat situations.

Not making light of what happened at all, but this is very important. This could have happened in a park, mall, stadium, etc. and the verbiage would be exactly the same.

We can't make the world completely safe for our family, friends and kids. It's just not possible. This very, very sad shooting just makes that clear.

Never live afraid.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Is it crazy to wonder about the girlfriend and whether she survived? It sounds like he may not have found her. If so, imagine the guilt she would have that her small actions regarding this goofball resulted in the deaths of a lot of people. Brutal stuff.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Is it crazy to wonder about the girlfriend and whether she survived? It sounds like he may not have found her. If so, imagine the guilt she would have that her small actions regarding this goofball resulted in the deaths of a lot of people. Brutal stuff.

Girls, dont cheat on guys

[biological warrior]

AP reports: 31 dead.

[MrBug708]

MSNBC has a reporter talking about how Asian students are under much more stress and more likely to do something like this...

*sigh*

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

MSNBC has a reporter talking about how Asian students are under much more stress and more likely to do something like this...

*sigh*

The 'media' seriously needs to diversify its ranks. This type of journalism has been gone on entirely too long and really, it's just laziness of the first rank, by people who are generally well-intentioned but not informed enough to be worthwhile.

[/soapbox]

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

Not making light of what happened at all, but this is very important. This could have happened in a park, mall, stadium, etc. and the verbiage would be exactly the same.

We can't make the world completely safe for our family, friends and kids. It's just not possible. This very, very sad shooting just makes that clear.

Never live afraid.

Indeed, indeed.

[st.cronin]

I'm reminded of the Long Island Rail Road shootings, more than anything else. Very sad. A girl I go to school with, her brother attends VT.

[molson]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

MSNBC has a reporter talking about how Asian students are under much more stress and more likely to do something like this...

*sigh*

For the love of....

That's 1000% worse than what Imus said - discussion for another day.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by molson

For the love of....

That's 1000% worse than what Imus said - discussion for another day.

Agreed and agreed.

[Crapshoot]

Shit, what a fucking tragedy. Out of curiosity though, is this "terrorism" as per the definition?

[King of New York]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

MSNBC has a reporter talking about how Asian students are under much more stress and more likely to do something like this...

*sigh*

Oh, for crying out loud, I would hope that any reporter ignorant enough to spout BS like that in connection with a massacre would be out of a job pronto...

[MrBug708]

Local feed

http://a999.l1234555656.c12345.n.lm....eflector:55656

[biological warrior]

I've never heard off a domestic shooting (general; both school et. ala) claiming this many lives.

[MrBug708]

Supposedly people were jumping out of the windows of Norris Hall...

[MrBug708]

With this happening, Alberto Gonzales is also a beneficiary of the media's new "cause du jour", as we will hear almost nothing about his testimony and related issues this week....

[adubroff]

Originally Posted by molson

For the love of....

That's 1000% worse than what Imus said - discussion for another day.

Not really relevant at this time, but no, it's not. This is a stereotype (and a semi positive one), that's a slur....

[Toddzilla]

If the 32 casualty count is correct, that makes this the worst shooting incident in US history - never mind it being school or campus related.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

With this happening, Alberto Gonzales is also a beneficiary of the media's new "cause du jour", as we will hear almost nothing about his testimony and related issues this week....

I am NOT looking forward to hearing the inevitable conspiracy theories about this.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Supposedly people were jumping out of the windows of Norris Hall...

Yeah, this has been widely reported all day... some from as high as 4 stories up is what some of the news reports have said...

[JPhillips]

Let me clear that I'm not faulting any students, but I'm really surprised that the guy wasn't rushed by a group before he could kill that many students.

[wade moore]

And on Fox news they have our friend Jack Thompson...

Ugh...

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Let me clear that I'm not faulting any students, but I'm really surprised that the guy wasn't rushed by a group before he could kill that many students.

I would say that self-preservation calculus is at the heart of this. I figure that if this happened on a plane, a perpetrator would be more likely to have been rushed: if something happened to the cockpit crew the chance of death for all is pretty high, so there is an incentive to rush a gunman before something happened to the pilot. In a situation like the one today, rushing the gunman is probably not an optimal survival strategy for any one individual.

But in the end, very few of us will really know what we would have done if put in that situation.

[Subby]

My little brother is a junior at Tech. He said right now he is just focused on making sure everyone he knows is okay.

Chris Shue RAA: are you hearing anything from friends?
Charleym14: well
Charleym14: I talked to a couple of people from high school, seems everyone is safe from there
Charleym14: that we know of
Charleym14: all of my freshman engineering buddies are okay
Charleym14: a couple of people I was worried about have logged on or said something on facebook in the last 30 minutes
Charleym14: but im dreading looking at that list
Charleym14: when it comes out

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Let me clear that I'm not faulting any students, but I'm really surprised that the guy wasn't rushed by a group before he could kill that many students.

I've thought about that myself, but that requires some degree of coordination and recognition by multiple students. If he's got them all facing the ground or away from him, it's awfully difficult to coordinate any sort of rush, though of course when it became obvious they were going to be killed, you'd think someone would have preferred dying on his feet (which may indeed have happened).

We all probably have played a moment like that out in our own minds and we'd all like to think it'd bring the action hero out in ourselves where we calmly find a way to defeat the bad guy, but in reality, I'm not so sure we'd end up the same as most others, scared *less and possibly dead. By our very natures, we seek to extend our own lives and putting up resistance is the most likely way of shortening it, particularly if you see the person has no compunction about killing.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

I would say that self-preservation calculus is at the heart of this. I figure that if this happened on a plane, a perpetrator would be more likely to have been rushed: if something happened to the cockpit crew the chance of death for all is pretty high, so there is an incentive to rush a gunman before something happened to the pilot. In a situation like the one today, rushing the gunman is probably not an optimal survival strategy for any one individual.

But in the end, very few of us will really know what we would have done if put in that situation.

There's a reason that the actions of the folks on the plane in PA are heralded so highly... as much as we all think we would do the same thing, so many times we as humans have proven that we wouldn't.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

I would say that self-preservation calculus is at the heart of this. I figure that if this happened on a plane, a perpetrator would be more likely to have been rushed: if something happened to the cockpit crew the chance of death for all is pretty high, so there is an incentive to rush a gunman before something happened to the pilot. In a situation like the one today, rushing the gunman is probably not an optimal survival strategy for any one individual.

But in the end, very few of us will really know what we would have done if put in that situation.

That is exactly what I told my students today. (10th graders) I have no idea, nor do any of us know how we would react. We like to think what we would do. With that said, I too am surprised more people didn't simply say enough already and rush the guy.

[King of New York]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Let me clear that I'm not faulting any students, but I'm really surprised that the guy wasn't rushed by a group before he could kill that many students.

Well, the guy had the element of surprise entirely on his side. At least one student (Derek O'Dell?) said the shooter just stepped into his classroom and started blasting away, before anyone had a chance to understand the situation. On Flight 93, people had a bit of time to come to grips with the unexpected and formulate a plan.

There is a lot that we do not know right now, but if it's true that 1) a couple of hours elapsed between the two sets of shootings, 2) Tech went ahead with classes even though the shooter was on the loose, and 3) the campus-wide notification of the first shooting came only a couple of hours later, then the school's administration is going to come in for a lot of criticism--perhaps justifiably so.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by King of New York

Well, the guy had the element of surprise entirely on his side. At least one student (Derek O'Dell?) said the shooter just stepped into his classroom and started blasting away, before anyone had a chance to understand the situation. On Flight 93, people had a bit of time to come to grips with the unexpected and formulate a plan.

There is a lot that we do not know right now, but if it's true that 1) a couple of hours elapsed between the two sets of shootings, 2) Tech went ahead with classes even though the shooter was on the loose, and 3) the campus-wide notification of the first shooting came only a couple of hours later, then the school's administration is going to come in for a lot of criticism--perhaps justifiably so.

I'm not 100% clear at this point whether the campus was on lockdown when the 2nd shooting happened or not.

If not, then yes, this could really look bad for the VT administration.

[[email protected]]

I work 100 yds from the first shooting and the administation sent out lots of emails to let us know what was happening and they had no idea that 1 shooting at the dorm would lead to 30+ at an academic building 2 hours later.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I'm not 100% clear at this point whether the campus was on lockdown when the 2nd shooting happened or not.

If not, then yes, this could really look bad for the VT administration.

What was the timeline for all of this? Two people shot in a dorm, and then later a whole classroom gunned down? If that is the way it happened, I'm not so sure the lockdown would have been obviously the right call. Shootings are not at all common on a college campus, but I would imagine a shooter leaving a dorm with just one attack (and a bystander) would seem like an isolated incident.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by BrianD

What was the timeline for all of this? Two people shot in a dorm, and then later a whole classroom gunned down? If that is the way it happened, I'm not so sure the lockdown would have been obviously the right call. Shootings are not at all common on a college campus, but I would imagine a shooter leaving a dorm with just one attack (and a bystander) would seem like an isolated incident.

The shooting at the dorm happened and then 2+ hours later the shooting at the academic building across the campus.

The police were aware that the shooter was loose.

I suppose I can see how it's not an obvious call - but certainly those in the media, politics, family, etc will say it was. That's all I'm saying is that they'll take heat, and in my personal opinion probably rightfully so.