The Official 2019 NBA Off-season Thread

[rjolley]

I think the Bulls could do well by trying to get Ball from the Pelicans. Not sure what the market is for him, but for the core of young players they have, he would be better than anything they have at point on the roster or can pick up either through the draft or FA.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Source- Woj

Hawks get :2019 #4, #57, and a future 2nd round pick

Pelicans get: 2019 #8,17 and 35 and Cleveland's 1st round pick in 2020

I wonder who the Hawks have in mind at 4 - I struggle to see Hunter as being much better than Prince or Bembry.

I like the deal for the Pelicans though. The Cavs 2020 1st could be massive, too.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I wonder who the Hawks have in mind at 4 - I struggle to see Hunter as being much better than Prince or Bembry.

I like the deal for the Pelicans though. The Cavs 2020 1st could be massive, too.

I've heard rumors of Cam Reddish to the Hawks at 4. I've been pretty out on Reddish, but if the rumors of him playing hurt all season at Duke & lacking explosiveness due to that are true it has shades of Jayson Tatum.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I've heard rumors of Cam Reddish to the Hawks at 4. I've been pretty out on Reddish, but if the rumors of him playing hurt all season at Duke & lacking explosiveness due to that are true it has shades of Jayson Tatum.

I've been hoping the Cavs take Reddish at 5 for awhile now. Garland is a massive gamble I think with so few games played, and although I'm far from sold on Sexton as a long-term answer at starting PG it still seems odd to pair two similar guys in a backcourt. I'm not sure either is a "true" PG for whatever that is worth, but defensively it's not going to work either. Sexton showed enough that it's worth giving him a few seasons to see how he pans out, and I don't think Garland is a clear case of drafting talent over need really, either.

[Lathum]

Zion seems like a pretty good kid

[miami_fan]

So these kids with the Kobe mentality...

[Atocep]

Hunter over Culver blows my mind.

[Chief Rum]

Two years in a row, Cavs pick a 6'2" PG.

Cavs gonna Cavs...

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Hunter over Culver blows my mind.

Same here. I like Culver's game more.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Two years in a row, Cavs pick a 6'2" PG.

Cavs gonna Cavs...

Yeah. *shrug* Like I said, not sold on Sexton long term, hopefully Garland is amazing or something, otherwise would have preferred Culver or Reddish.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Yeah. *shrug* Like I said, not sold on Sexton long term, hopefully Garland is amazing or something, otherwise would have preferred Culver or Reddish.

I actually like Garland better than Sexton, too. But what do you do now? Try to trade Sexton? Roll with a massively undersized backcourt? Cavs put themselves in this position. Reddish would have made a lot more sense, or Culver and then trade KLove (a much more marketable piece for a contender that could bring you back something).

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I actually like Garland better than Sexton, too. But what do you do now? Try to trade Sexton? Roll with a massively undersized backcourt? Cavs put themselves in this position. Reddish would have made a lot more sense, or Culver and then trade KLove (a much more marketable piece for a contender that could bring you back something).

I also think Garland is a better PG prospect - Sexton is basically an undersized SG who hasn't really shown a lot of vision when it comes to setting up others. He looks like a pretty electric scorer though, but I can't help but think with his height his ceiling is bench scorer combo-guard. Garland also looks like an electric scorer but a better handle and more natural fit at the PG spot. I think short-term we roll with both of them and take our lumps on the defensive end, but long term that can't be our backcourt.

[BishopMVP]

Things work out well for the Hawks, moving up for DeAndre Hunter and still getting Cam Reddish too.

PS Rui means "baseball base" in Japanese? Okay then.

[bhlloy]

I don’t know much about basketball, but isn’t a no shot (as in the guy only shot five jump shots all year) center the last person you want to put around Zion with your first pick?

I get how attractive the thought of that defense is, but for spacing perspectives surely you’d want as many shooters as you can lay your hands on? It feels like a very Pelicans pick - i.e. the team that gave up a ton to put Cousins next to AD

[BishopMVP]

Getting into Celtics range. I'd be good with any of Brandon Clarke/PJ/Langford or even Nas Little at 14. (Sekou if he slips but guessing he won't.) Which probably means it'll be Alexander-Walker or Tyler Herro.

Would also love to get one of Grant Williams, Goga, Bol Bol, Thybulle or any of the Clarke/Washington/Langford trio if they slip at 20/22.

[stevew]

Cavs only had a couple solid to good players last year. Now hopefully we have 1 more. I’m not sold on Sexton at all. Gotta crawl before you ball. Besides the last time we drafted 2 small guards, we made 4 straight finals.

[bhlloy]

Feels like Doumbouya has a chance to be one of the best 3 or 4 players in the draft

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Arles

Saric + Clarke/Hayes >> Coby White

Saric + Johnson ?? Coby White?

Not sure what the Suns are thinking with that selection.

Doumbouya at 14 I like, and Hachimura at 9 also.

[JonInMiddleGA]

His defense won't be pretty against better players but there are going to be some nights where Tyler Herro scores like a star.

[Lathum]

Got emotional watching Thybulle get picked and talk about his mom, and how he wants to use his platform to help people. Am amazing kid and a great fit in Philly where he won't have to exert energy on the offensive end. His ability to block shots is going to trigger a ton of fast breaks for them.

[Atocep]

Between this draft and the Conley trade, the Grizzlies have killed it the past couple of days.

[miami_fan]

High IQ player....BINGO!

[Lathum]

How many top 10 talents are there?

[jbergey22]

If Bol Bol hadnt gotten hurt last year he was a top 10 pick based on upside alone. At this point in the draft Id gamble on a guy like him.

[stevew]

Yeah. Never heard of this senior from Belmont. Dunno why we wouldn’t be doing an upside gamble when this team is likely to be trash for 2-15 more seasons.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Saric + Johnson ?? Coby White?

Not sure what the Suns are thinking with that selection.

Doumbouya at 14 I like, and Hachimura at 9 also.

Suns appear determined to draft the oldest players in the draft today. It seems that after Bender, Chriss and Josh Jackson, the Suns are tired of taking 19-year olds with potential who don’t know how to play. We will see how it pans out but I at least see a plan. Get a big shooter and backup PG who know how to play, add in an experienced PF who can create a bit and maybe a FA PG with experience. This team should at least be watchable.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by stevew

Yeah. Never heard of this senior from Belmont. Dunno why we wouldn’t be doing an upside gamble when this team is likely to be trash for 2-15 more seasons.

He was a great college player. A very good but streaky shooter and a good rebounder for what you might think when you hear shooter. He will have a shooter off the bench role and be solid. Probably a player Pop looked at but didnt like because he could end up being a defensive liability being 6 8 playing small forward against more athletic wings.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Lathum

How many top 10 talents are there?

How many 1st round picks does your team have?

Celtics twitter appears to be calling for Danny Ainge's head, but while I also liked the two players (Thybulle/Ty Jerome) we "traded" I'm pretty happy with Romeo Langford, Grant Williams & a future (late) 1st rounder. Langford is a classic Ainge pick as a top 5 recruit who was inconsistent as a FR, have to hope the thumb injury was the cause of the weak outside shooting, and at least he was still a good finisher around the rim. LOVE getting Grant Williams - high IQ, productive, well rounded, I'll be shocked if he's not a good playoff rotation player for a decade in this league.

Could still add a high upside guy (Bol Bol, Claxton, either Porter), or someone who seems like a very NBA ready guard in a Carsen Edwards or Luguentz Dort.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

Yeah. Never heard of this senior from Belmont. Dunno why we wouldn’t be doing an upside gamble when this team is likely to be trash for 2-15 more seasons.

Very efficient scorer, good instinctive player, prolific 3p shooter

Jonathan Givony on Twitter: "With the 25th pick the @cavs pick #Belmont sniper Dylan Windler, who knocked down 3.3 threes per-40 minutes (2nd among our #NCAA mock draft picks) this season. Here's @Mike_Schmitz film room breakdown featuring Windler… https://t.co/J3UsjuLxOq"

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

How many 1st round picks does your team have?

Celtics twitter appears to be calling for Danny Ainge's head, but while I also liked the two players (Thybulle/Ty Jerome) we "traded" I'm pretty happy with Romeo Langford, Grant Williams & a future (late) 1st rounder. Langford is a classic Ainge pick as a top 5 recruit who was inconsistent as a FR, have to hope the thumb injury was the cause of the weak outside shooting, and at least he was still a good finisher around the rim. LOVE getting Grant Williams - high IQ, productive, well rounded, I'll be shocked if he's not a good playoff rotation player for a decade in this league.

Could still add a high upside guy (Bol Bol, Claxton, either Porter), or someone who seems like a very NBA ready guard in a Carsen Edwards or Luguentz Dort.

Ainge can do nothing right according to some Celtics fans

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

LOVE getting Grant Williams - high IQ, productive, well rounded,

And a good person in the locker room.

I think he's probably a "culture" pick there as much as anything.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Ainge can do nothing right according to some Celtics fans

Well after the last few months I can understand some discontent, but the level of vitriol for basically rolling over a late 1st round pick to next year is quite extreme Twitter

It makes a lot of sense to me, especially if we draft a real player at 33 and not some draft & stash/future trade. Already have 5 22 & under players in Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Robert Williams III & the two first rounders tonight + potentially that #33.

They've also inched pretty close to max cap space with the trades back & Aron Baynes going to Phoenix. Can be at $34.8m room if they renounce Terry Rozier's cap hold.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And a good person in the locker room.

I think he's probably a "culture" pick there as much as anything.

Agreed on the great locker room presence, disagree they think they have an overall culture problem or would pick him if they didn't think he could play. Maybe there are other issues, but I think everyone is pretty willing to chalk up this past season's locker room issues to 80% Kyrie & 20% Hayward's slow return from injury.

[stevew]

I like the Porter Jr. lottery ticket at the end of the first round.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Agreed on the great locker room presence, disagree they think they have an overall culture problem or would pick him if they didn't think he could play. Maybe there are other issues, but I think everyone is pretty willing to chalk up this past season's locker room issues to 80% Kyrie & 20% Hayward's slow return from injury.

Oh don't get me wrong, everybody knows he can play. How much / how effectively at the next level is a fair enough question. He's kind of a tweener on size & skills and I could have seen him falling into the top of R2 almost as easily as getting picked where he did.

I'm just saying that I believe the culture benefits were likely a strong tiebreaker on picking him there vs any of a handful of other prospects.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And I know it's a thin draft, and I know the 2nd round is always a crapshoot but man, there's more question marks here than a classic Batman episode featuring The Riddler.

[miami_fan]

Is Bol Bol some sort of method actor?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Y'know, watching Zion struggle to get through his post-draft interview while talking about his mother ... well, at least for the moment he's a pretty tough kid to hate on.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Things work out well for the Hawks, moving up for DeAndre Hunter and still getting Cam Reddish too.

I totally had given up on getting Reddish once the Hawks traded the 8 to move up to get Hunter. But as teams were selecting other players, I was getting more and more excited - I definitely made my Whats App group laugh as I was like "I think we can get Reddish" to "OMG, I can't believe we got him at 10!!1!".

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

How many 1st round picks does your team have?

Celtics twitter appears to be calling for Danny Ainge's head, but while I also liked the two players (Thybulle/Ty Jerome) we "traded" I'm pretty happy with Romeo Langford, Grant Williams & a future (late) 1st rounder. Langford is a classic Ainge pick as a top 5 recruit who was inconsistent as a FR, have to hope the thumb injury was the cause of the weak outside shooting, and at least he was still a good finisher around the rim. LOVE getting Grant Williams - high IQ, productive, well rounded, I'll be shocked if he's not a good playoff rotation player for a decade in this league.

Could still add a high upside guy (Bol Bol, Claxton, either Porter), or someone who seems like a very NBA ready guard in a Carsen Edwards or Luguentz Dort.

Trading Thybulle to what may be your biggest threat is unforgivable IMO. Thybulles whole game is tormenting opposing guards and shooters. Now they have to deal with him all season and potentially in a 7 game series.

[Arles]

In 2016 and 2017, the Suns were among the "winners" in the draft for all the talent they drafted. In 2017, they got Josh Jackson, Davon Reed and Alec Peters. In 2016, they drafted Dragon Bender, Marquese Chriss and Tyler Ulis. Well, 2-3 years later and none of these six players are on the Suns save Jackson (who they are trying to dump right now). They are going to be a massive "loser" in the writeups this year, but they added a 6-9 knock down shooter and a backup point who both may be on this team for 5-6 years as depth/lower end starters.

It's funny, had the Suns added Coby White with their first pick, got Nassir Little at 24 and finally grabbed Bol Bol at pick 32 - they would have been claimed bigtime winners. That's what McDonough would have done. But, the Suns would be a dumpster fire next year. They would be adding three raw development players to a roster with oft-injured TJ Warren and Clueless co-stars Josh Jackson, De'Anthony Melton and Dragon Bender. 21-year old Okobo would be forced to play massive PG minutes with White as they would have little cap space to add a vet PG or PF and this team would look lost as they head towards another 19-win season.

Instead, they decided to switch up. With Monty Williams in the fold, they decided improving the culture and starting the process of improving on the court trumped "potential". So instead of the lottery tickets on talent, they added a legit NBA PF on a cheap contract (Saric), an older 6-9 shooter (Cam Johnson), an experienced backup PG (Jerome) and a legit vet big man on a cheap, one year deal (Baynes). They also moved Warren's contract so they now have over $20 million to sign a vet PG.

"Winning the draft": Okobo, Booker, Oubre (FA - signed), Jackson, Ayton with Bridges, Warren (when he's not hurt), Ty Johnson, White, Little and Bol on the bench.

"Losing the draft": FA PG (Rubio/Beverly), Booker, Oubre, Saric, Ayton with Bridges, Baynes, Jerome, Cam Johnson, Ty Johnson and Okobo on the bench.

That second team looks a lot more fun to watch and after 3-4 years of the McDonough "potential" team with 19-year olds blowing assignments, making awful turnovers and having attitudes when they get benched - this will be a refreshing team to watch.

[bhlloy]

Could have traded down another 10 spots and still got Johnson though, or taken a player with infinitely more upside in Dombouya, Washington, Okeke or Bitadze. I was with you until that point, and I can see the value in just not being terrible next year, but Johnson where he was taken was a head scratching pick.

[Arles]

Yeah, but I think he would have been gone by 21 (both OKC and GS were targeting him). So, maybe you drop from 11 to 18-20 and get a mid 2nd - but you risk losing him:

The Warriors are salivating for Cam Johnson, but he will come with a steep price to pay

They'd have to move in before OKC at 21, because Thunder needs shooting badly. The only reason they'd pass on Cam Johnson as the best shooter in the draft is if his medical comes back iffy (hip).

— Bruno Manrique (@TheSportsLede) June 20, 2019

Cam Johnson is quickly going up draft boards at an alarming rate, as teams have quickly realized that he’s a promising player with elite-level shooting skills — primarily what NBA teams will value over the course of the years, since it’s one of the few skills that has proven to age well.

Johnson was previously slotted to be the one of the first players snatched in the second round, but he’s quickly being considered at the bottom of the first, as teams like the Philadelphia 76ers, Cleveland Cavaliers, Detroit Pistons, and the Oklahoma City Thunder have expressed interest in drafting him.

Elite shooters often get picked at some point after the middle of the first round — take for instance Maryland’s Kevin Huerter, who was selected 19th overall by the Atlanta Hawks last year.

The Warriors have the 28th, 41st and 58th pick, which makes for a tough proposition.

Johnson could potentially go as high as No. 21 to the Thunder, a team in dire need of shooting after coming out short for that very reason in these past few trips to the postseason.

I'm not sure adding a mid-second is worth that risk if they liked him. Plus, they added Jalen Lecque post-draft (who many had pegged in the mid-second).

[jbergey22]

Saric was getting outplayed badly by Taj Gibson after he got traded to the wolves. He has legit talent but lacks heart and consistency from what I see. As far as Cam Johnson he seems very similar to Dylan Windler other than Cam attended UNC and Windler had a far more consistent college career. Are the Suns really is position to draft "role players" at #11? They kind of need to get a star and take chances to find one IMO.

EDIT Forgot about Booker. For whatever reason when I was writing that I didnt even consider that he is a nice star type player. And Ayton once he gets consistent. Maybe they are in a better position when I initially wrote that.

[whomario]

I'm glad to live in a world where there is a decent chance that some announcer one day soon might should out "Admiral Schofield for the win !". Or get an MVP trophy that will confuse the hell out of future Archaeologists. What a great name, well done.

Haven't been following the league much for the last few years with many of my favourite players slowing down or retiring and having less time available, so can't really comment much on the actual proceedings

[Arles]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Saric was getting outplayed badly by Taj Gibson after he got traded to the wolves. He has legit talent but lacks heart and consistency from what I see.

Sometimes the role impacts performance/heart as well. He was only getting around 23 Min a night on a frontcourt with Towns, Gibson, Wiggins, Covington and Deng. When he was getting 30 min a game in Philly, he was a pretty good player (14 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 2.6 APG and 39% from 3). The hope is moving him into a starting role in Phoenix (on a contract year) will be more motivating.

As far as Cam Johnson he seems very similar to Dylan Windler other than Cam attended UNC and Windler had a far more consistent college career.

Yeah, I think they are similar. Windler is about two inches shorter though, so that keeps him from being a small-ball 4. The Suns didn't need another 6-6/6-7 SF with their current wings. What they needed was a guy who could play some small-ball 4 and hit shots. You also don't know how Windler will handle NBA defenses. He went 4-14 against UCLA, 3-12 against Purdue and 2-7 against Temple in really the only games against athletic defenses he faced. Cam put up 25 vs the Zags, 17 on Kentucky and 23 against Duke in the ACC tourney. I think similar performance against much tougher competition and being a couple inches taller is what made Cam a more attractive pick.

Are the Suns really is position to draft "role players" at #11? They kind of need to get a star and take chances to find one IMO.

EDIT Forgot about Booker. For whatever reason when I was writing that I didnt even consider that he is a nice star type player. And Ayton once he gets consistent. Maybe they are in a better position when I initially wrote that.

This team has so many "talented" guys with Booker, Ayton, Oubre, Bridges, Jackson and Okobo - what they need are glue guys who won't blow assignments and miss open shots. That's why it makes sense to add guys like Saric, Cam, Baynes and Jerome. If they are going to get out of this 19-20 win hamster wheel, they can't just keep rolling out raw 19-year olds. If they can add a legit NBA PG, they could win 30-35 games next year and start building some momentum. Plus, with Tyler Johnson, Baynes and others coming off the books, they could have another $30 mil in cap space next summer (even after signing a legit PG and Saric's cap hold).

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Arles

This team has so many "talented" guys with Booker, Ayton, Oubre, Bridges, Jackson and Okobo - what they need are glue guys who won't blow assignments and miss open shots. That's why it makes sense to add guys like Saric, Cam, Baynes and Jerome. If they are going to get out of this 19-20 win hamster wheel, they can't just keep rolling out raw 19-year olds. If they can add a legit NBA PG, they could win 30-35 games next year and start building some momentum. Plus, with Tyler Johnson, Baynes and others coming off the books, they could have another $30 mil in cap space next summer (even after signing a legit PG and Saric's cap hold).

Are Oubre, Jackson & Okobo talented? Are Bridges & Booker bad at defensive rotations? Who is even going to be there after this season?

Booker & Ayton are good offensive players who are significant minuses on defense right now... If the plan is to surround them with competent NBA players & see if they're a franchise cornerstone, sure, but that team will still be so bad on defense it's not going to make the playoffs imo.

Just seems like they're still one good two way wing away from having a good core, and Doumbouya etc gave a better chance at that than Johnson. Completely get why GS & OKC wanted Johnson, less sold on why Phoenix would rather go for a second high floor low ceiling wing instead of taking another swing on upside.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Are Oubre, Jackson & Okobo talented? Are Bridges & Booker bad at defensive rotations? Who is even going to be there after this season?

Jackson will be gone, but I think Oubre played very well for them and Okobo showed flashes. He's just pretty raw. You can have 1-2 raw players in your rotation - you can't have the 6-7 the Suns have had under McDonough.

Booker & Ayton are good offensive players who are significant minuses on defense right now... If the plan is to surround them with competent NBA players & see if they're a franchise cornerstone, sure, but that team will still be so bad on defense it's not going to make the playoffs imo.

I think Ayton can get better. He's never going to be an elite shot blocker, but he has the athleticism to switch on perimeter players - he just wasn't asked to do that at Arizona and struggled with the specifics last year. Bridges was a pretty solid defender as a rookie and I think a lot of these guys could get better if there is a reason to try. It's hard to expect 19-23 year olds to try on defense when you win 19 games. Still, I don't think they are close to a playoff team yet. The hope is to become respectable by getting up to 30+ wins. The last four seasons they have won between 19 and 24 games and that losing becomes a culture. You don't break that by bringing in AAU All-Star 19-year olds who don't think they need to try when they don't have the ball.

Just seems like they're still one good two way wing away from having a good core, and Doumbouya etc gave a better chance at that than Johnson.

Doumbouya is 19-years old and has shown zero basketball IQ. He's a turnover machine who "may" get better in 3-4 seasons. In other words, he's Josh Jackson 2.0. This team doesn't need more 19-year olds who don't know how to play basketball. They have two very talented potential stars in Booker and Ayton and need to start finding players to compliment them and hit shots. Last year, the Suns were last in the NBA in 3-point %. Now instead of Bender (22%), Jackson (32%), Crawford (33%), Melton (31%) and Okobo (30%) - the Suns will have 38-40% guys like Saric, Cam Johnson, Jerome and another FA or two. You can't be bad on D and awful at shooting, but it's hard to fix both in one offseason. If this team hit shots and learns to play defense (and wants to play), that's the best they can do. Atleast they've added guys with good basketball IQ to replace the Warren/Jackson/Bender/Melton "blown assignment bunch" from last year.

Completely get why GS & OKC wanted Johnson, less sold on why Phoenix would rather go for a second high floor low ceiling wing instead of taking another swing on upside.

They've taken swings on upside the last four drafts with Jackson, Bender, Chriss and Ulis. How many hit? None. They also took an older, good IQ, good shooting, solid D but less potential guy in Mikal Bridges and he looks like a keeper. Adding another 15-20% hit rate lottery ticket is not what this team needs to do to start the climb of relevancy. The Suns haven't made the playoffs in 9 years and even Booker is started to get tired of winning 20 games. So, yeah, they could have "won the draft" by taking 2-3 19-year old projects - but that would be a massive setback on becoming decent. The fans are becoming fed up and if this team doesn't get better, my bet is Booker does the Paul George/Anthony Davis trade request. You can't just be bad forever and I think there is some wisdom in letting the Magic, Cavs, Bulls and Wizards keep going after potential lottery tickets while you grab guys who can play a role in the NBA between picks 8 and 25. The Suns have nothing to show for three of their last four drafts because they took guys like Doumbouya, Coby White and Hachimura who were raw and had no basketball IQ.

[Chief Rum]

Meh... it was a poorly thought out move.to draft a guy at 11 you could have had 10 picks later. If the Suns need as much help as you say (and I agree, they do), then they should have traded down and received more picks and still would have gotren Johnson. There were a ton of draft moves being made-- they would have had the opportunity.

Clips did the same thing last year with Jerome Robinson. Looks like a solid shooter but could have gotten him much lower. They should have traded down. One of the few mistakes I have seen that front office make since breaking up the CP3-Griffin-DJ trio.

[stevew]

Bazley to OKC could be a solid piece. Won’t be counted on to do anything initially. But maybe could grow into a cheap stretch 4 in a couple years.