FOOL’S Managers over the years

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

One more illustration on my point.. back in those days I used to present a yearly "Win Shares" list for each team. I think i never really brought that back because it didn't seem like many people were that interested in it.

FTR (and not that I am trying to get you to do one more thing when you already do a ton), I always checked those lists out with interest. I may not have commented much, but I enjoyed seeing where players (particularly my players) ranked, and the Fielding Win Shares were very interesting to me, because I have never had as strong of a natural read on normal fielding stats as I do hitting and pitching stats, and FWS helped me a lot with really seeing who out there was helping their teams with the glove.

[TimGuru]

*agree* WS in general seemed to me to mean more than VORP, which as inadequate as it can be I use religiously for evaluation.

[Tasan]

I always loved the Win Shares lists. I actually used them to help me eval talent to an extent.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by muns

With HA boasting how good his team always was, and trying to get the league rules changed just so he could make the playoffs

I absolutely refuse to be in any league in which HA/Anthony is a part. He spends his time trying to destroy the league rather than actually play out the sim. The first post he made in the new RWBL forums while trying to decide if he actually wanted in was full of cussing-out insults to some other owner during a discussion about strategy. No thanks. Glad I missed his time in FOOL even if it did mean Boston got moved.

[muns]

In case anyone is wondering ive made it all the way up to the 11 spot and im stuck. Eric you werent kidding about ranking everybody. This is crazy tough.....

[Young Drachma]

I love how we talk about these players like they're real and it's only been a year.

I don't wear jerseys, but I might have to get on ballcap.com and see if I can't get them to make me a custom 1968 Rio Grande Roadrunners cap with #8 embroidered on the side.

Tanaka is probably my favorite FOOL player that never played for me.

[Tasan]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I love how we talk about these players like they're real and it's only been a year.

I don't wear jerseys, but I might have to get on ballcap.com and see if I can't get them to make me a custom 1968 Rio Grande Roadrunners cap with #8 embroidered on the side.

Tanaka is probably my favorite FOOL player that never played for me.

If you do, you better post a pic.

Oh and the Anthony years were probably the only ones I've actually considered leaving, outside of my dismal Plano seasons.

[muns]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I love how we talk about these players like they're real and it's only been a year.

I don't wear jerseys, but I might have to get on ballcap.com and see if I can't get them to make me a custom 1968 Rio Grande Roadrunners cap with #8 embroidered on the side.

Tanaka is probably my favorite FOOL player that never played for me.

another interesting question. I dont even know who I would go with if I had to pick my favorite player that didnt play on my team. There are so many guys I like(d)

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I love how we talk about these players like they're real and it's only been a year.

I don't wear jerseys, but I might have to get on ballcap.com and see if I can't get them to make me a custom 1968 Rio Grande Roadrunners cap with #8 embroidered on the side.

Tanaka is probably my favorite FOOL player that never played for me.

I grew far more attached to my players than others, but the player I grew most attached to following that did not play for me, not suprisingly was Daniel Gil the all time-FOOL Home Run King. Was a ton of fun following his last few years for me.

[Young Drachma]

Two guys I let go of that I wish I hadn't were Rick Inman (ugh, the worst trade I ever made...) and Lorenz Heijien.

But that Inman deal hurt. The Rasmussen deal probably made up for it, but I wish I would've kept Inman. But during those early years, I felt like I was always close to being in it and so, I made a lot of moves that in retrospect I would've held off on, because I always felt like I was just "a player away" or something.

No easy task trying to list the top managers of all-time though. I think this format is very, very different than any of the others I've played in, but easily the most accessible. I mean, other leagues you'd never be able to take someone off the streets and get them into OOTP championship form in a few months, but here, folks can learn the game and pick up the trends quickly.

It's a neat thing. To the casual observer, it'd "be an easy league" to play in, but as this is showing, plenty of sim veterans get in here and just can't handle the pace, know how to evaluate players the right way or get a team that they can build into a champion.

It's like our own version of the NFL v. Arena Football debate. Except this is way cooler.

[TeachEnEspanol]

Originally Posted by muns

another interesting question. I dont even know who I would go with if I had to pick my favorite player that didnt play on my team. There are so many guys I like(d)

I don't think I got too hyped up on guys from other players teams...except maybe the ones that caused drama, but even then those were only fun for the high interest and board activity value. I'd have to say that my personal favorite players have always come from my teams and they're usually not exceptional by other peoples' standards.

[ekcut]

Artie Wiley was my favorate non-team player....i had a man crush on him from his first day since leaving the Vulture league...I threw every dollar at him everytime I could and could never land him.

[muns]

Originally Posted by ekcut

Artie Wiley was my favorate non-team player....i had a man crush on him from his first day since leaving the Vulture league...I threw every dollar at him everytime I could and could never land him.

and then I snagged him in a trade

[TeachEnEspanol]

Originally Posted by ekcut

Artie Wiley was my favorate non-team player....i had a man crush on him from his first day since leaving the Vulture league...I threw every dollar at him everytime I could and could never land him.

ooh...good call!

[TimGuru]

I think that was me.....

[muns]

I liked Bobby Barrett. I tried to deal for him so many times, I just couldnt ever get the deal done, so I think he would be my guy that I liked watching the most not on my team.

As far as my favorite player that I had, I think it would surprise some people.

Closer Denny Hennessey. From the time I dealt for him to where he ended up. Just took a lot of pride in that guy.... lol who says this shit is fake????

[TimGuru]

I barely remember my own guys, so my favorites came from my own team: 2 time, "odd year" MVP Bernard Evans, and Brian Waller, who never amounted to much once he left the friendly confines of Panther Park and my go-go style of play.

[TimGuru]

Bernard played an instrumental role in me NOT getting to 75 in 75.

[ekcut]

Originally Posted by muns

I liked Bobby Barrett. I tried to deal for him so many times, I just couldnt ever get the deal done, so I think he would be my guy that I liked watching the most not on my team.

As far as my favorite player that I had, I think it would surprise some people.

Closer Denny Hennessey. From the time I dealt for him to where he ended up. Just took a lot of pride in that guy.... lol who says this shit is fake????

Funny you should say that...I was checking out hennessey yesturday when I saw that Wright was over 500 saves and only about a season away from the FOOL2 record...i looked back in the archives to see what the old Save Record was, only to be humbled that Hennessey had over 750!!!!
I think that record will be tough to beat!

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ekcut

Funny you should say that...I was checking out hennessey yesturday when I saw that Wright was over 500 saves and only about a season away from the FOOL2 record...i looked back in the archives to see what the old Save Record was, only to be humbled that Hennessey had over 750!!!!
I think that record will be tough to beat!

yeah, you need a good 20 seasons of being a closer for a good team to get that one. Not many teams have anyone meeting that bill ever.

[muns]

Originally Posted by TimGuru

Bernard played an instrumental role in me NOT getting to 75 in 75.

That campaign you had always gave me a chuckle.

[muns]

Originally Posted by Alan T

One more illustration on my point.. back in those days I used to present a yearly "Win Shares" list for each team. I think i never really brought that back because it didn't seem like many people were that interested in it. Win Shares has its flaws, but for the sake of my argument, I think it serves its point here..

Picking just one year out of the middle of Long Island's run, here are two players that got paid roughly the same amount for that team:



For the same amount of money in 1980, Luke Crawford contributed twice as much as John Hunt (the middle of their lineup) did. Just for reference, how important was Crawford's 32 Win shares for his team that year?

In 2032 FOOL, only 3 players in FOOL had that many win shares for their own team. (Run-ming Zhui, Ramon Santos and Jesus Estrada). That many win shares means that Crawford deserved that much money honestly it equaled roughly $1 mil per win that Crawford was responsible for that team that season.

I don't have the 2033 Win shares for FOOL computed yet (I do it after the playoffs usually), so can't really give a comparison just yet on how it compares to today's time. Anyways, I agree.. I love fun conversations like this. I find them very interesting personally The only thing better would be if we were in a bar with a beer for the discussion!

Im glad you brought up the wins shares, and since your in one of your moods (per your other post in the offseason thread) im going to continue this

So your right Crawford contributed most to HA'S wins on that team, but my point was that 11 mil could have been spent on someone else that would actually help them climb out of his 4th place finishes.

Wouldnt you expect the guy that you pay the most, contribute the most? I would, so sure Crawford was tops on his team for win shares. But if he is dumping 11 mil into Crawford and loosing how is that a good investment?


Alan you mind posting Hartfords win shares for that season (if you even still have them)? Im curious about some stuff.

The argument essentially boils down not to Luke Crawford, but that HA had no idea how to build a team, and giving guys like Crawford that contract helped ME, and whoever else was in his division win more by eating up money that could have been used to make the rest of his team better. So whoever said that earlier DC or Alan or Tim or maybe all 3 were dead on.

Could you imagine Crawford on another team? What kind of beast would he have been at the top of a lineup that actually had some meat behind it? Kind of a scary thought now that I think about it.

[Alan T]

This was Hartford's from that season:

Players Win Shares - by Year
first_name	last_name	HittingWinShares	PitchingWinShares	FieldingWinShares	TotalWinShares
"Dylan"	"Robinson"	0	30.3975856409126	0	30.3975856409126
"Jorge"	"Aquino"	0	29.9209615981523	0	29.9209615981523
"George"	"Baker"	20.3995898596782	0	6.17145742879801	26.5710472884762
"Denny"	"Walls"	15.9329642124776	0	6.20650226182522	22.1394664743028
"Steven"	"McGill"	12.7228693926704	0	7.53482934055304	20.2576987332235
"Denny"	"Hennessey"	0	16.3442556703205	0	16.3442556703205
"Artie"	"Wiley"	0	16.2363717953609	0	16.2363717953609
"Greg"	"Miller"	13.6433877794708	0	1.65999894398135	15.3033867234521
"Ian"	"Booker"	9.46252178858183	0	5.35728838798512	14.819810176567
"Roman"	"Vitaliev"	0	14.2563111853211	0	14.2563111853211

I think the point I am making that is being missed is that Crawford did earn his money. Everyone should be up in arms over John Hunt being paid the same amount of money and only contributing half as much. Hunt and others on the team who were vastly overpaid was the big problem on that team.

[muns]

I think the point I am making that is being missed is that Crawford did earn his money.

Agreed. The man is in the FOOL Hall of Fame.

[muns]

Alrighty then, getting back into the countdown. This list of 5 wasnt my favorite time writing this up just because it was tough finding things to talk about. So without wasting anymore time on the intro here is numbers 32-28.


32. Cramsey- Cramsey came into FOOL in 2005 (after the restart) and took over the Hartford Franchise. In his many seasons as the skipper running the Hartford franchise he just couldn’t get them back to what they used to be. Cramsey was 785-997 for a win % of .441. That mark is 9th worst all time, and is 2nd worst by guys with over 1,000 games played (only bested by Pike). He only posted 15 times in something like 15 seasons and didn’t add much to the FOOL discussions. I will say one of Cramsey’s problems was because he would forget to export his file for FOOL, and as we all know in this league forgetting or not exporting a lot will in fact kill you. I commend Cramesy for playing as long as he did and not just quitting like a few others would have and did. Id welcome him back over to FOOL, even more so if he would remember to export


31. coachb123 – He took over the Long Island Franchise and wasn’t around long at all. In his 2 or 3 seasons he went 149 and 159 which comes close to a .500 mark. He posted in 3 FOOL threads, and that was all she wrote for his time here. I believe like most others, he just couldn’t keep up with the FOOL schedule.


30. JeeberD- Jeeber is a long time member of FOFC and was one of the original owners of FOOL. Jeebers tenure here in FOOL lasted a lot longer than it should have as he couldn’t keep up with the schedule and he routinely wouldn’t respond to anyone’s trade offers. He went 445 and 479 for a winning % of .482 which lands him at the 25th best spot. Jeeber never posted much in FOOL which in retrospect is a direct contrast to his persona at FOFC where he used to post more than anyone known to man.


29. Huckleberry- Huck is another long time member of the FOFC community and like Jeeber above him was an original owner in FOOL ( The Appleton Foxes franchise). Huck didn’t do horrible here, but wasn’t really active, although his teams did hover around .500 ball. He never made the playoffs and doesn’t have a title to show for his time here but he did provide FOOL a service when he moved the Appleton Franchise to Texas and giving it a better name, the Texas Copperheads.


28. DizzyDizzyDinosaur- Dizzy was only around for 2 or 3 seasons, but he sure wasn’t afraid to just jump right in and get his team and our community moving. He only had 5 posts in FOOL but 2 were trades, and they certainly made ripples around the league. In this trade in which people might find funny if you go back and re read Sir Fozzies write up, he makes a deal with Chief Rum (Chief you remember this one?) and it just shook up the league. SP-Craig Davis was a big deal in Fool, just in case people don’t know or cant remember.

Chicago-Colorado Trade (1969) - Front Office Football Central

Dizzy was brought into the league by DC (DarkCloud) and was an asset in his short lived time. He went 282-334 with crappy teams and was all around active. I wouldn’t mind seeing Dizzy come back as I enjoyed having guys like him and Pike around.


We are getting closer as the countdown continues to roll on. Stay tuned for more

[Alan T]

One thing about Jeeber is he was indeed one of the original owners, but the beginning of FOOL also was around the same time I believe as when he got married or shortly after or some such. His time since then on this board has dropped off from what it once was too. I think he has found life busier these days and thus also the reason why he had to put FOOL aside too.

[muns]

I actually had a ton of fun writing up this current list of 5. I was laughing and then also got to write about a guy I really respect. All in all a very fun list to write up.



27. magic_number- This guy was pretty active around FOOL and he knew what he was doing in game wise but out of game that was another story. While he never made the playoffs or had any titles, his teams always hovered around .500. I will also say that Getting the Compton Brothers as his first team was a nice set up. The Brothers Historically were a good team, and one I wish Magic Number would have capitalized on. He posted 161 times and looks to have only made a handful of trades but what I most remember about Magic number besides him being active is that I had no idea what the hell he was EVER talking about. The guy made me laugh just about everytime he posted. What the hell did “X up” ever mean anyway? Or how about this gem of a post below. We had a heck of a discussion going on about when we would be able to sign Free agents coming in from the Vulture League. Was it fair or un fair to the post season teams when we have the vulture league guys coming into the league as Free Agents.

Please scroll down to post #46 which was his or you can just read the discussion, but his post just cracks me the hell up.
New Rule Proposal - Front Office Football Central

Post 221 and on in this thread makes me smile as well
1975 Offseason thread - Page 5 - Front Office Football Central

This one might be my favorite though
Who's - who? - Front Office Football Central

and Magic putting his thoughts on the Steve harmon issue which is post # 16
Steven Harmon issue - Front Office Football Central

Im sure there are other “magic” moments with him, but those are the few I had to point out. Magic landed at number 27 on my list but Ill never forgot the guy that’s for sure.


26. EddieK- Our first “current” FOOLER makes the list at 26. Eddie has only been around for a few seasons, but already has 17 other guys beat on my list. Nice feat there if your asking me. Eddie is 458 and 514 for a win % of .471 since taking over the Boston Settlers Franchise. He currently just said he was gonna win the CL this past year? A sign of things to come or just one of the many loud things to come out of Boston/ Long Island when they aren’t being managed by gstelmack?

Recently Eddie has chimed in and started a current discussion on Prospects and talent Randomness which can be found here
Prospects - Front Office Football Central

Im happy to have Eddie around and if he keeps posting like that he is gonna be all good by me.


25. Hell Atlantic/Anthony- HA was and still is the most controversial Gm in the history of FOOL. I credit him for almost ending FOOL totally by himself and “pushing” 4 managers out the door. I came close to calling it a day twice myself and honestly don’t want to get too much into this write up.

Here is a good one
People need to chill. out. - Front Office Football Central

That’s all im listing and am going to write on the subjet of HA. Im sure if you want to read more about him and his posts not only in FOOL but all across the FOFC boards feel free to look up his profile.


24. Cringer- Cringer is one of the guys that I have a ton of respect for not only here in FOOL but in general. As one of the original owners he won 1846 games and lost 2004 for a win % of .479. He made the playoffs only once but made it count as that was the year he won his only title. He was extremely active on the boards not only with trades, but he helped push FOOL to what it is now. Always a “cool headed” guy that made good choices. I could spend hours upon hours of looking Cringers stuff up, but its all small posts, that’s important, and funny. But there is a ton of it out there. Cringer didn’t always win all the time, but he was a great guy to have around the boards during any given day and a great guy to have in the league. I almost forgot to mention that Cringer is also the manger that had Catching standout Hideaki Tanaka from which the Tanaka award goes out each year to the best hitter in FOOL. If Cringer wasn’t around would we even have that award today?????

An example of Cringers Cool head can be found here
Contraction? - Front Office Football Central

Cringer if you are reading, why don’t you come back. The Roadrunners would be a nice expansion team!

23. JimmyOOTP- I don’t even know where to start with Jimmy. He would be the second most controversial owner in FOOL history I guess. Jimmy was active, prob a little bit over active, but he intended to be good. He just couldn’t help how he came off and what he eventually eneded up doing. At the start of “Jimmy” he was handed a fantastic Compton team from DC (I believe) and was saddled with something like 20 million over the cap. DC had a deal worked out with me basically, and then handed it over to Jimmy who then nixed the deal, and then traded one of the most decorated pitchers in FOOL History (SP-Joe Morris) away for basically nothing.

Toronto-Compton Trade (1969) - Front Office Football Central

Then even as we are all questioning what the heck he was thinking, he still makes the Classic to everyones amazement. So we continue along and we fast forward like 2 seasons. Jimmy is still hyper and loving the league, and runs smack head onto a draft picking trading issue that OOTP has (another german engenering issue) and basically losses his mind about it and starts hinting the DC is cheating as commish

1971 Season Thread (Classic is over! FA starts tomorrow!) - Front Office Football Central

Then he calls DC a sore loser and asks for a brand new team
1971 Season Thread (Classic is over! FA starts tomorrow!) - Page 4 - Front Office Football Central

DC gives him a new team then He hints at DC cheating again here in a deal with me
Quad City-Hartford Trade (1972) - Front Office Football Central

and then the bombs start dropping when Jimmy quits over stuff we have been doing forever.
1972 Off-season Thread (Pre-Draft file is up!) - Page 2 - Front Office Football Central

When the dust settles and Jimmy quit he left behind a good Compton team that won 263 games and lost 199 for a win % of .569. Personally I would have loved to see DC stay in Compton to see how many titles they would have won, as they were pretty stacked, however It wasn’t meant to be, and Jimmy was well…….. Jimmy no FOOL OOTP.


Stay Tuned for the next set coming up as we are starting to get down to the nitty gritty

[hyde4us11]

I didn't know where to put my comment so i figured here was best. I went back and read some of the posts Anthony made, and oh boy were they interesting. I'm all for a little trash talk in a fun nature, but there is a point where its not trash talking though. It just seems that he didnt have any feelings for anyone else. My grandmother raised me and at 33 years old if i talked (or typed) to anyone the way he said things I'd get my ass kicked still. The one thing that i will never accept in a league is any personal attacks. I am currently in a discussion on a FOOL matter that i disagree with some of the points being made, but i sure hope i am showing respect to the people I'm discussing it with. Please do me the favor and if he ever comes back to the FOOL family can someone post my resignation for me? I said my peace and feel better thanks for listening.

[muns]

Hyde you have been nothing but a pleasure here, so no worries about how your discussing things at all. We are glad to have ya!!!!

[TeachEnEspanol]

Originally Posted by hyde4us11

Please do me the favor and if he ever comes back to the FOOL family can someone post my resignation for me? I said my peace and feel better thanks for listening.

Nope, sorry! I agree with Muns. You're not allowed to leave us ever. You are great and we like having you around!

[hyde4us11]

ill commence on my playoff runs then (example of acceptable trash talk)

[TeachEnEspanol]

Originally Posted by hyde4us11

ill commence on my playoff runs then (example of acceptable trash talk)

I would say that I would commence my rise back to my once former glory and take you down but I'm pretty sure we all know that would just be a lie.

[Young Drachma]

Compton would've won the title in '70 if he hadn't messed everything up. We lost in the 13th inning of Game 9 of the 1969 Classic to Brooklyn, the team that came back in '70 was better, Jimmy made the Classic without being good and still managed to botch it. I have no idea what he thought he was doing. But he made some of the wackiest trades ever, signed worse players after the fact and well..yeah.

I just couldn't understand what he was doing, but I tried to indulge him (probably too much) and I probably shouldn't have.

Chicago/Quad City was a fun ride for me because I took a team that was terrible and turned them into a FOOL champ in like 4-5 years and that was a from scratch rebuild, so I don't regret leaving. But at the same time, muns is probably right that Compton could've been a dominant for the first half of the 1970s. I dunno if they were a Valdosta-like dynasty, but they had the juice to contend with the Colorado's of the world and pre-juggernaut Hartford.

Most of the talent there was older though and so, I felt like it'd be more fun to go somewhere bad and start over.

Anyway...

I didn't want to let Anthony in the league at all. Half of folks I talked to said he's poisonous to a league, the other half said he's fine. I didn't want to pre-judge, but I probably should have...he started off okay, but then dove in and just lost his mind and well..the rest is what it is.

Looking forward to the meat of the list. Mostly because it's fun to recap the old days.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Compton would've won the title in '70 if he hadn't messed everything up.

Yeah who were those bums that ended up winning in 1970 because of his failures? They were lousy!!

[muns]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Yeah who were those bums that ended up winning in 1970 because of his failures? They were lousy!!

[muns]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Looking forward to the meat of the list. Mostly because it's fun to recap the old days.

I cant even begin to tell you how much fun ive had the past 2 days doing the top 10. The history involved has just been so much fun to go back and look at while doing it. FOOL just tops the list for me league wise ever. Wish more people would give it a shot or stick with it.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Chicago/Quad City was a fun ride for me because I took a team that was terrible and turned them into a FOOL champ in like 4-5 years and that was a from scratch rebuild, so I don't regret leaving. But at the same time, muns is probably right that Compton could've been a dominant for the first half of the 1970s. I dunno if they were a Valdosta-like dynasty, but they had the juice to contend with the Colorado's of the world and pre-juggernaut Hartford.

Funny you should mention contending with the Colorado's of the world in that specific time frame, because I know you're talking about the general strength of my squad in that "era" (60's-70's), but that very specific time period--1970-1973--was probably the pinnacle for my Ranchero teams. Contended in 1970 for a playoff spot, and then went to three straight Classics from 71-73, finally winning in '73 (thanks To Alan's squad taking the season off for once). Those Colorado teams of the early 70s are still perhaps the best teams (as compared to the talent level in the league) I have ever put on the field (the Hasegawa-Valdez Hammersmith squad about 10-12 years ago was probably the other prime contender).

Interestingly enough, of course, I acquired Craig Davis from Chicago, which helped fuel that run. So DC didn't help his old Brothers franchise there.

[TeachEnEspanol]

Originally Posted by muns

I cant even begin to tell you how much fun ive had the past 2 days doing the top 10.

Well yes, I could see how writing about me up there would be quite thrilling for you. Makes all the sense in the world really.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Yeah who were those bums that ended up winning in 1970 because of his failures? They were lousy!!

hahaha... well played.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Funny you should mention contending with the Colorado's of the world in that specific time frame, because I know you're talking about the general strength of my squad in that "era" (60's-70's), but that very specific time period--1970-1973--was probably the pinnacle for my Ranchero teams. Contended in 1970 for a playoff spot, and then went to three straight Classics from 71-73, finally winning in '73 (thanks To Alan's squad taking the season off for once). Those Colorado teams of the early 70s are still perhaps the best teams (as compared to the talent level in the league) I have ever put on the field (the Hasegawa-Valdez Hammersmith squad about 10-12 years ago was probably the other prime contender).

Interestingly enough, of course, I acquired Craig Davis from Chicago, which helped fuel that run. So DC didn't help his old Brothers franchise there.

Well I wasn't trying to help them once I left.

There's no doubt that outside of Valdosta, Colorado Rancheros are the class of the league. Mostly because the franchise ALWAYS contended. You had them at or near the top from the time you started, Tasan didn't waste time keeping them there and while Hartford had that insane run of titles after their juggernaut of prospects spree over the years (muns was a genius) the bottom line is, the Rancheros franchise is tops for the whole consistency deal and the fact that it had multiple owners and managed to stay the class of the league.

That Craig Davis trade was fun and Montoya was a big part of the Quad City/Chicago back to back Classic teams that won and lost in '75 and '74 respectively, so while it was lopsided given the sheer # of guys who didn't work out or that I got rid of pretty much after the deal was consummated, there's no one else who would've given me Montoya-like value for Davis and that's what I wanted in that deal.

I could've sat on him, but I think blowing the team up that had no prospects or any real minor leaguers of value was a good way to get things going.

[muns]

The next 5 to me were an interesting bunch. They all could go higher on my list and finding spots for each of them was extremely tough. Im also at the point on my list where it starts to become subjective. And you guys were only thinking the top 10 was going to be hard??? I mean who says being active makes you better around here, or makes you better than someone else who maybe has won 5% more of their games. I guess this starts to be the fun part too though. Alas the countdown continues.


22. drakeviii- Drake is an interesting case, like a few of our other previously mentioned members and I for one am looking forward to some responses to where others think he should have landed. Drake is another guy DC brought into the league, however he too also got caught up in the Mess that I like to call the “FOOL Dark Period”. He even mentions in one of his 19 posts that he “feels like he walked into a family argument”. Drake was around for a little bit longer than most but I think eventually gave it up to do “our” issues. He went 933- 1011 with a win % of 48. He made the playoffs twice and has 2 Rings to his credit, but fell off the face of the planet going for his “3 peat”. The question in my mind is are those really his rings? His 2 championships were right at the beginning of the restart, so does that count? He still had to put the lineup and rotations in correct? Other than that would he be this low on the list? Does 2 championships with 80% of the guys on the team being straight from the computer restart make him top 25? While I say it does, I will also say this; I could have had him higher due to his titles, but I think the guys listed below him gave more to FOOL and deserve it more than he does. Where does everyone else see Drake at? Its up for debate for sure, and one im looking forward to having.


21. cgould43- CG is another one of our current “FOOLERS” and a recent edition to the league. He is another guy that is hard to find a good spot for on the countdown and could possibly be listed a little bit better. However he isn’t listed where he is due to anything that he has not done, he simply doesn’t have the “time in” to get higher in my opinion. His record isn’t too shabby at all with 1603 wins and 1637 losses which is close to .500 ball. He also does have 2 first place finishes to his name and 3 playoff appearances, however the title is still out there calling his name. Recently he has started to get active posting wise, and with a few more wins and playoff appearances he can very easily jump up more than a few spots on the list. Im looking forward to seeing where Apex goes in the next few seasons as he has proven to be a shrewed manager when it comes to building up his assassian squad.


20. TimGuru- Tim I believe came to FOOL in our second wave of new owners and didn’t disappoint me or the league from the get go. Tim was always extremely active on the boards and chimed in with his opinion on numerous issues. Game wise Tim hovered around the .450 mark during his tenure here in FOOL going 1420 and 1700 with 2 playoff appearances. While he never won a title, he never gave up after 4 seasons because it was “too hard” or ever lobbied to get the rules changed so that it might help his chances at making the playoffs. I for one was sorry to see him go in the purge of 4-5 owners that left when the spats started to happen on the boards between more than a few of us. He helped find a few game flaws, started a newspaper called the Tattler and was a funny guy to have around the boards. Out of all the guys that we could have come back if I had to pick a single one that I would want back at this very second, my selection would be none other than TimGuru.

A few of Tims Notable posts are below
Tattler v2.0 - Front Office Football Central

To ALL Owners: Make this a fuller league! - Front Office Football Central

Tattler 2/1/83 - Front Office Football Central

The Tattler: NY based, Coast to Coast reportage! - Front Office Football Central

Tim I see you just joined FOOL H, how about brining the NY Panthers back in expansion over here in FOOL, you know you want to? If not its just good to have you back “home”.


19. Greygoose- Overall Greygoose was a very solid manager. In his tenure in FOOL he went 682 and 704 for a win % of .492. He made the playoffs once but never won a title. Goose had some very competitive teams with the Atlanta Firecrackers, and that has always been one of my favorite names of a Franchise. Goose helped the league move forward in more than a few areas and is that is something he should take some pride in.

He helped clear up some confusion on FOOLS Schedule and when things should be proceesed and if those things were fair to everyone. 1971 Off-season Thread (Pre-Draft file is up!) - Front Office Football Central

He also was instrumental in helping with the financial model
1971 Off-season Thread (Pre-Draft file is up!) - Page 3 - Front Office Football Central

And splitting the league into divisions
Split up into divisions? - Front Office Football Central

and of course how we handle FA’s with vulture players and the FOOL Classic Sim
New Rule Proposal - Front Office Football Central

Just to be clear, if GOOSE could have won more, he easily could be in the top 5 of FOOL Owners. He helped progress FOOL more than I even realized until I did this. Goose a huge thanks to you for helping lay the ground work and foundation for the league, and when you get sick and tired of that College crap, or want to come back, please do!!!


18. TurnerONU22 – Turner is another guy that was good for the league and id like to see come back at some point. It took him a little bit to get Columbus up and running the way he wanted them but when they did get there, he kept them in contention for the playoffs even if they didn’t make it all that much. He went 842 and 852 with one first place finish, one playoff appearance and a ring to his credit. Im sure a few people are wondering why he made it this high on the list then. Well he does have a title that CG, Tim and Goose dont have, but the main reason to me is that he contributed some good stuff to FOOL over his time he spent with us.

I think this one was a full League effort Turner contributed some nice points on some financial changes we were talking about here
Proposed Financial Changes - Front Office Football Central

He was one of the first to take up the issue of not having a FOOL rule book or guidelines
1978 Season Thread (Season is complete. File is up!) - Front Office Football Central

Last one, I liked his post about moving from Seattle to Columbus so here it is
Seattle to Columbus - Front Office Football Central

More to follow tomorrow!!!!

[Alan T]

That was a quality group of managers there. I think I would have had Drake a bit lower myself, I understand sometimes it is time for people to leave, but it does get a bit annoying when they just disappear without the courtesy of even saying, "Hey I think life is going to be too busy for me to keep up".

Cgould has been doing quite well for himself over in FOOL-X thus far, and I realize this is just a FOOL manager review so those seasons don't count in this but I think for him (and a few others) it sometimes is tough to come into the middle of this group of "personalities" as a new person and instantly start out yapping away. I have noticed with his success over there, he has seemingly felt more comfortable in FOOL the past several seasons as well and that might be the reason he has posted more recently as well. I'm not always sure that I do enough to make the quieter newer members of our league feel that they are just as welcome and just as important to our community as the older veterans. I'm really grateful to have cgould and bz and Eddie around just as much as those who post a bunch more too. I think it helps make the competition in this league higher.

As for TimGuru.. anyone who manages the Yankees is simply NOT alright with me!

Greygoose is one of the managers that leaving really really made me sad. He was probably my first true rival in this league after I got my Valdosta organization together the first few years. The Atlanta vs Valdosta in-state banter was fun, and he always had a very strong team even if he didn't have much title-wise to show for it. He as much as anyone really helped me get sucked into FOOL in the first place. It was extremely good for me that when he had to leave due to RL simply getting too busy for him that his replacement in Atlanta was just as strong competition-wise and even more "chatty"

Turner I'm a bit torn on. I probably would have likely put him around 22-24 range myself. He was here quite a while, did have some success (moreso than say Drake), but I think I get turned off a bit on people who just disappear without the courtesy of saying they are done (despite being PM'd). Maybe that is unfair of me to weigh that in my consideration, I'm not sure but some of my favorite all time FOOL managers who did have to go were all stand up people about it (Cringer, Commo_Soldier, greygoose, etc). Perhaps that shouldn't be a factor in the consideration though

[TeachEnEspanol]

I'm never going to comment on guys that I think should have been lower on the list (playing records or not), but I'll always give props to people I think deserve it more than me, and frankly, I think there are owners who have showed up who I think should have been placed ahead of me on the list already. I'm excited that Tim is back on the boards even though he's not back in regular FOOL (maybe we'll expand?!) and I can't remember where he went (Alan?) but I miss Cringer (yeah I know I'm two lists behind) to this day!

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by TeachEnEspanol

I can't remember where he went (Alan?)

Where who went? Tim? He left to pursue a career as a professional Europa Universalis player, but failed when France steamrolled him, so fell back to life on the golf tour.

Or are you asking where I went? I got donuts for breakfast for my girls. I'm the best dad in the world, who wouldn't want honey nut cheerios and donuts for breakfast???

[TeachEnEspanol]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Where who went? Tim? He left to pursue a career as a professional Europa Universalis player, but failed when France steamrolled him, so fell back to life on the golf tour.

Or are you asking where I went? I got donuts for breakfast for my girls. I'm the best dad in the world, who wouldn't want honey nut cheerios and donuts for breakfast???

No, where Cringer went because you have the best memory for detail in the world (in addition to being the best dad). And you're right, I would totally want doughnuts. My breakfast was boring and now I'm a little sad actually.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by TeachEnEspanol

No, where Cringer went because you have the best memory for detail in the world (in addition to being the best dad). And you're right, I would totally want doughnuts. My breakfast was boring and now I'm a little sad actually.

I don't remember the exact conversation, but if I remember anything close to correct, I think his interest in OOTP overall just waned and he found himself having trouble remembering to make time for exports.

He's still around on the FOFC boards though. He just had another child recently though so might be a bit preoccupied!

[muns]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Turner I'm a bit torn on. I probably would have likely put him around 22-24 range myself. He was here quite a while, did have some success (moreso than say Drake), but I think I get turned off a bit on people who just disappear without the courtesy of saying they are done (despite being PM'd). Maybe that is unfair of me to weigh that in my consideration, I'm not sure but some of my favorite all time FOOL managers who did have to go were all stand up people about it (Cringer, Commo_Soldier, greygoose, etc). Perhaps that shouldn't be a factor in the consideration though

Na Alan I think you make a fair point for sure. I think hyde said it the other day about being apart of the "FOOL family". I dont think we all see eye to eye on things but at the end of the day id like to think we all respect each other even with our sometimes "heated" rivalries.

When you leave the league like you just brought up, it hurts the leauge, and in this league, with its fast paced nitche, its tough to replace people.


I also want to say that its funny you mention that now, because I touch on that a tad with one of my next guys on this upcoming portion of the list

[Tasan]

Well come on man, post it!

[muns]

As this list goes on, it just keeps getting harder


17. Ben E. Lou- I think this is an appropriate spot for our fearless FOFC forum leader. Ben was around from the beginning however didn’t really say or do much on the FOOL board. From a stats perspective (and mind you his stats weren’t all against humans, they had a fair share of AI in the early days) he proved he can hang with the best. He went 531 and 393 for a career winning % of 0.575. That is second only to Alan in FOOL HISTORY, plus he finished first in his division twice with 3 playoff appearances. Ben always knows what he is doing in OOTP and maybe one day we will have him grace us again with his presence in our little fast pace piece of heaven to see if he can hang with the big boys.


16. Ramzavail- Ramz came into FOOL in 1976 and was around for more than a few seasons. He went 1032 and 970 for a winning % of .515. Ramz made the playoffs twice in his career in FOOL, and never won a title, however he did come in and stabilize a franchise that was starting to reel after a major owner left the league. He wasn’t a major contributor on the boards, nor was he a rah rah type guy, but he knew how to run a team and he was always trying to make his team better on the trade boards. Im not sure if FOOL’S pace got to him, but he asked to step down in 1983 which was a blow to the league. I would like to point out however, that he didn’t just up and quit and leave the league hanging. Ramz “manned up” and stuck it out until 1989 until the league could find an active new owner to replace him( 6 seasons after he wanted to step down). For that Ill always respect him, and since he wasn’t a bad guy to have around, wouldn’t mind seeing him back someday either.

We cant forget how the San Diego Franchise became the Fathers. This thread gave me another laugh.
1976 season thread - Front Office Football Central


15. LintyFresch85- LintyFresch is an interesting guy to put here at the 15 spot for a few reasons. He has a total of 20 posts on FOFC and 2 posts in FOOL period. Not the kinda guy that you really want in your league activity wise. So why is he up this far? Why isn’t Ramz, Turner and CG all after him. Simple plain truth. Linty has 2 FOOL Titles and he won over 51% of his games. There are only 12 guys in the history of FOOL that have won 2 or more FOOL Championships, and that list shrinks down to 8 that have won more than 50% of their games. So in my eyes he is in small company here and maybe people might feel he needs to be higher, who knows, but the second side of this debate is this. His 2 championships come right at the START of FOOL, when we all were handed our teams. Does that make his 2 count less? I bring back the argument with our # 22 guy on the list drakeviii. Didn’t he have to make the linup, the rotatations, and the contracts? My answer to that is he did, and that’s why he lands at 15 on my list.

14. hyde4us11- Hyde came into FOOL with just basically bats and balls left in his clubhouse with an old Hartford team. Cramsey didn’t do him any favors when he left and hyde was lucky to have fans still wanting to show up at the ball park. So it was expected that it was going to take a while for him to turn the team around after the old vets left and time was all the man needed. In his first 4 seasons Hyde made the playoffs twice hoping to earn that next championship and return to POONER greatness. Unfortunately that didn’t happen and after 2018 Hyde didn’t sniff the playoffs for another 12 straight long hard years. In 2031 though after some nice drafts, and trades Hyde put together a good team on the field and made the playoffs surprising a few and loosing in the Classic. That run started 3 striaght years of making it not only to the playoffs but to the FOOL classic capped off with his title run last season. The scary thing is that he isn’t done yet, and the POONERS long lost history of being one of the best Franchises ever are back with the correct GM leading them back into new found glory days. Hyde’s career totals are 1496 and 1585 for a win % of 486. He has one first place finish, 5 playoff appearances and last years title. I expect Hyde to keep going and if this list would have come out 3-5 years in the future, id expect Hyde to be in the top 10 period. Glad your around hyde, Good luck on next years back to back run.


13. kaosfere- Kaos was another one of my all time Favorite Fool mangers because of the amount of time that he always put in over here. He was one of the handful of guys that would be on the “FOOL” everynight shooting the crap, making FOOL a better place to come waste time. Kaos was around from 1973 till around 2001. He won 1394 and lost 1394 and as Alan has stated before the only FOOL manager in history to be exactly on the 500 line. He only made the playoffs 3 times (all first place finishes) but he did win the FOOL Classic in 1981.
Kaos like Cringer was a clam reasoning voice that FOOL needed in a lot of ways. Kaos had 1,174 posts all in FOOL which came to about 3 a day.

Kaos has a million threads and its tough going through them all and picking out the best of them so I did my best, however the thing that set Kaos apart from everyone else besides activity was that he created an entire other league to be played along side FOOL called FLOP.

That can be found here
Presenting: FLOP. For when FOOL isn't fast enough. - Front Office Football Central

Kaos winning his title in this thread
1981 FOOL Classic: Toronto Osprey (91-63) vs Hartford Harpooners (106-48) - Front Office Football Central

An example of a team preview by Kaos, and if you haven’t figured it out a ton of people used to do these. Another feature we need to bring back
1982 Team Previews - Front Office Football Central

This is Kaos telling the league that we need less legislation, and in hindsight was dead on the money as we did eventually drop a lot of the rules we did have in place, for more FUN.
Opinion Poll: Do you feel some restriction should be put in place for MLCs? (Reposted - Front Office Football Central

Like a few others Kaos is on MY shortlist for guys id want back in a heartbeat.


Im thinking ill release the next set sometime later on in the day today, as im still trying to figure out how I want to roll out the top 10

[muns]

Originally Posted by TeachEnEspanol

I'm never going to comment on guys that I think should have been lower on the list (playing records or not), but I'll always give props to people I think deserve it more than me, and frankly, I think there are owners who have showed up who I think should have been placed ahead of me on the list already. I'm excited that Tim is back on the boards even though he's not back in regular FOOL (maybe we'll expand?!) and I can't remember where he went (Alan?) but I miss Cringer (yeah I know I'm two lists behind) to this day!

I agree Cringer was a great guy to have around here.