Who takes a flyer on Clausen?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Um the person this entire thread is about.

well there were other conversations going on, the fact that you think Clausen goes in the third round makes your statement even more cryptic.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

How's Ben Mauk doing?

Not playing in the NFL.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Lathum

well there were other conversations going on, the fact that you think Clausen goes in the third round makes your statement even more cryptic.

I just never saw anything really amazing out of him from the games I watched.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I saw Forcier and he has "it". Does Barkley have "it"?

If "it" is an inability to live up to expectations, then, yes!

(Although, FTR, I think Barkley will be good in the long run, he was in a bad situation forced on him by his coach, who really should have stuck with his more experienced signal callers and had Barkley redshirt this year).

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

If "it" is an inability to live up to expectations, then, yes!

(Although, FTR, I think Barkley will be good in the long run, he was in a bad situation forced on him by his coach, who really should have stuck with his more experienced signal callers and had Barkley redshirt this year).

Completely agree and said that from the start. Corp should have started this season if not Mustain. But now that Barkley got his cherry popped there is no going back.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Completely agree and said that from the start. Corp should have started this season if not Mustain. But now that Barkley got his cherry popped there is no going back.

Yup, what's done is done.

My take? Carroll promised Barkley would start during the recruiting process "after Sanchez leaves". Then Carroll was caught sideways by Sanchez's decision to leave early, which Carroll did not correctly predict (clearly, judging from his reaction/handling of that whole affair).

Which left Carroll in a tough corner of having to live up to his promise to his top recruit.

Speaking of popping the cherry, UCLA did the same thing with Brehaut. They should have redshirted him and didn't. Sorta mystifiying.

[RainMaker]

I don't know if he'll turn into a star, but I do think he is the most NFL-ready QB in the draft. He's got really good mechanics and he seems to grasp an NFL style offense and can follow progressions well. His mobility and pocket presence seems pretty good too from what I saw. I also think that playing at Notre Dame has him a little better prepared to handle the pressure and media scrutiny of the NFL.

He's got some flaws such as I never really saw him throw the deep ball all too well (seems to underthrow receivers a lot). But I still think he's one of the top 3 QBs in the draft and worthy of taking a flyer.

[bhlloy]

He's pretty comparable to Leinart IMO - both "NFL ready", neither has a great arm by NFL standards but scouts are in love with their decision making and you either think they are arrogant assholes or you like that they have confidence in themselves. I think he will be top 15 for sure (assuming you think 3 QB's will be taken in the top 15 picks), with a chance to be top 5 if he throws the ball well at his pro day. Round 3 is absolutely crazy talk.

[RainMaker]

I know the media isn't always fair, but from what I've read about Leinart, he just never had the work ethic to be a top QB in the NFL. Not sure what the word is on Clausen, but I do think dedication to the position has an impact on whether these high profile QBs make it in the NFL.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I know the media isn't always fair, but from what I've read about Leinart, he just never had the work ethic to be a top QB in the NFL. Not sure what the word is on Clausen, but I do think dedication to the position has an impact on whether these high profile QBs make it in the NFL.

Very much so, as bad as Jamarcus Russell is, if he had the work ethic, mindset and intelligence of a Peyton Manning / Tom Brady I bet he would be a very good NFL quarterback with the potential to be great. Unfortunately he has none of those things.

[Glengoyne]

I think Clausen has a shot at success in the NFL. He has a good head on his shoulders, which is something that a few QBs each year exhibit. I'm not sure he's a star, but I think he'll be one of the few from this draft that are playing in five years.

Getting QBs in the draft is tough work. Anecdotaly I'll guess that the majority of higher performing QBs today were never considered for the early first round draft picks they've now demonstrated they are worth.

[Julio Riddols]

I think a guy like Pike could wind up in a place like Indy..

[JHandley]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Completely agree and said that from the start. Corp should have started this season if not Mustain. But now that Barkley got his cherry popped there is no going back.

Wasn't the problem that Corp is not very good and Mustain is so awful he's hoping someone needs a punter?

Clausen suffers from a real odd delivery. He kinda jerks his body around and it looks like he's just hoping the ball gets to where he wants it to. Also, his left arm seems to pull the rest of his upper body out of whack. Fans expect a high first round pick to look effortless throwing the ball. He doesn't.

Don't misunderstand, when I say suffers I mean just in the eyes of the public. He does get it done, in fact he kind of reminds me of Rivers. Another guy who suffers from an odd delivery.

[Dr. Sak]

The only thing Clausen needs to work on is his throwing motion IMO. He winds up. But he has a strong accurate arm.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Completely agree and said that from the start. Corp should have started this season if not Mustain. But now that Barkley got his cherry popped there is no going back.

I swear I remember reading that Corp did in fact win the starting QB battle, but got hurt. Barkley's early season success allowed him to keep the job?

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Samdari

I swear I remember reading that Corp did in fact win the starting QB battle, but got hurt. Barkley's early season success allowed him to keep the job?

Exactly, that's supposedly what happened, but there were questions about Corp being ready from the start, and I guess they thought Barkley showed enough to keep him the starter after Corp was fine.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

The strike rate for high-1st rounder QBs is amazingly low. If I were a GM I'd be drafting for a safer position in the 1st round and pick my QBs in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Hell of a lot less pressure for QBs taken with those picks.

This is where I'm coming from. For one, I don't think any of these guys are close to locks. Bradford, Claussen, Locker, McCoy could all end up being very good, long-term QBs but I'd say the chance of any of them accomplishing so is anywhere from 60-70% (I completely pulled that figure from nowhere, but you get my point). But there is a lot better value in the 2nd tier guys people have mentioned, or hoping that one of those 4 slip (it would be surprising to see all these guys go in the 1st in a draft where there's no standout).

People might think Pike is a system QB but he's got great size, is surprisingly mobile for a big man, and a strong arm that has shown he can make the throws outside of that system. That game-winning TD pass on Saturday was a perfectly thrown ball in a pressure situation, just beautiful. If the Niners use their two first rounders to build the OL and could grab Pike in the second, I'd be going nuts.

I also don't think we see the huge exodus of underclassmen that people are expecting because of the CBA/likelihood of rookie contract caps. Yes, for guys that could find themselves approaching the top of the board with a good combine or workouts like Claussen it makes sense, but no one is trying to limit the amount of money given to guys drafted in the back half of the 1st round. Of course, that means players need to be wise about their prospects and not rely solely on agents.

Anthony Davis is the LT at Rutgers and is considered a first rounder right now, and people think he will jump because of the pending cap and because he could sneak into that 10-15 range. If he was guaranteed that, I'd say go but he has issues in his play that the announcers who watch one game don't pick up on, but I'm convinced once teams break down all the tape he could slip. If he comes back another year and works on those things, he could find himself going in the top 3 next year (underclassmen OTs don't typically go extremely high), which even with a cap would be a lot more than he could stand to make this year in guaranteed money.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Exactly, that's supposedly what happened, but there were questions about Corp being ready from the start, and I guess they thought Barkley showed enough to keep him the starter after Corp was fine.

But you said Corp should have started this season. I thought he could not due to injury.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

Getting QBs in the draft is tough work. Anecdotaly I'll guess that the majority of higher performing QBs today were never considered for the early first round draft picks they've now demonstrated they are worth.

I'm not sure that is entirely true.

Looking at the playoff teams last year

Titans- Kerry Collins- 5th overall pick
Steelers- Big Ben- 11th overall
Dolphins- Chad Pennington- 18th overall
Chargers- Rivers- 4th overall
Colts- Peyton- 1st overall
Ravens- Joe Flacco- 18th
Giants- Eli- 1st
Atlanta Falcons- Matt Ryan- 3rd
Eagles- McNAbb- 5th

The only teams who made the playoffs last year that didn't have a 1st round QB taken were the Panthers with Delhomme, Cards with Warner and Vikings with Jackson, who was a second rounder.

Of the teams who didn't make it that are still good we all know the Brady story, Brees was the first pick in the second round and Rodgers was a late first rounder but mostly slipped because of circumstances.

I think there is a definite relationship between being a high drafted QB and success, we just get the Tom Brady/ Kurt Warner stories shoved down our throats, so we tend to forget all the McNabbs/ Mannings/ Rothlesbergers of the world.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I'm not sure that is entirely true.

Looking at the playoff teams last year

Titans- Kerry Collins- 5th overall pick
Steelers- Big Ben- 11th overall
Dolphins- Chad Pennington- 18th overall
Chargers- Rivers- 4th overall
Colts- Peyton- 1st overall
Ravens- Joe Flacco- 18th
Giants- Eli- 1st
Atlanta Falcons- Matt Ryan- 3rd
Eagles- McNAbb- 5th

The only teams who made the playoffs last year that didn't have a 1st round QB taken were the Panthers with Delhomme, Cards with Warner and Vikings with Jackson, who was a second rounder.

Of the teams who didn't make it that are still good we all know the Brady story, Brees was the first pick in the second round and Rodgers was a late first rounder but mostly slipped because of circumstances.

I think there is a definite relationship between being a high drafted QB and success, we just get the Tom Brady/ Kurt Warner stories shoved down our throats, so we tend to forget all the McNabbs/ Mannings/ Rothlesbergers of the world.

Not to mention Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, et al. The success rate of highly drafted QBs is low, which can be frustrating, but it's still higher than the success rate of lower drafted QBs.

[gstelmack]

One complicating factor is that many of the unsuccessful high QBs have gone on poor teams that then have staff turnover. Young QBs that stay in one system for a few years have a much higher success rater than young QBs who have to learn multiple systems and never really get a chance to get comfortable while trying to learn everything else there is to know about the NFL.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Not to mention Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, et al. The success rate of highly drafted QBs is low, which can be frustrating, but it's still higher than the success rate of lower drafted QBs.

That is a whole different argument.

He said the majority of high performing QB's weren't considered to be drafted pick, numbers say otherwise.

Now if you want to say there is no guarantee a high drafted QB will lead you to the promised land you certainly have a good argument.

[RedKingGold]

Never knew we had a ton of pro scouts on FOFC. What teams do you all work for?

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Looking at the playoff teams last year

Titans- Kerry Collins- 5th overall pick
Steelers- Big Ben- 11th overall
Dolphins- Chad Pennington- 18th overall
Chargers- Rivers- 4th overall
Colts- Peyton- 1st overall
Ravens- Joe Flacco- 18th
Giants- Eli- 1st
Atlanta Falcons- Matt Ryan- 3rd
Eagles- McNAbb- 5th

Adding in this years potential playoff teams...

Henne, 2nd
Romo, undrafted
Favre, 2nd
Orton, 4th
Garrard, 4th

Collins and Pennington don't start anymore and it's unlikely either would get a look as a serious answer to a starting QB job. Both would be token starters until the new stud QB learns the ropes at best.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Lathum

That is a whole different argument.

He said the majority of high performing QB's weren't considered to be drafted pick, numbers say otherwise.

Now if you want to say there is no guarantee a high drafted QB will lead you to the promised land you certainly have a good argument.

I suppose -- I just figured we were both discussing this point:

Originally Posted by Groundhog

The strike rate for high-1st rounder QBs is amazingly low. If I were a GM I'd be drafting for a safer position in the 1st round and pick my QBs in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Hell of a lot less pressure for QBs taken with those picks.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Samdari

But you said Corp should have started this season. I thought he could not due to injury.

As I said there was question to whether Corp was actually ready to go or not...

[bhlloy]

Corp wasn't hurt at all past the second or third week of the season, he just sucked so bad against Washington that it made it a moot point. The coaches weren't going to go back to him after that, fair or not. His stats don't tell just how bad he was in that game, he physically couldn't throw the ball further than 10 yards and should have had at least 2-3 more picks.

This is getting really off topic but Mustain is a really wierd situation. Arguably he has the best arm of the 3 but he just has shown absolutely no leadership skills or intangeables whatsoever, and is completely unwilling to be vocal in the huddle etc, to the point where the coaches don't feel comfortable putting him in the game. Rumor is he's expecting to be the next Matt Cassell and doesn't care that he's not getting in the game at all. Very strange.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Never knew we had a ton of pro scouts on FOFC. What teams do you all work for?

Might as well shut down the internet if people can't have opinions.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Adding in this years potential playoff teams...

Henne, 2nd
Romo, undrafted
Favre, 2nd
Orton, 4th
Garrard, 4th

Collins and Pennington don't start anymore and it's unlikely either would get a look as a serious answer to a starting QB job. Both would be token starters until the new stud QB learns the ropes at best.

still far from "majority"

[chesapeake]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Not to mention Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, et al. The success rate of highly drafted QBs is low, which can be frustrating, but it's still higher than the success rate of lower drafted QBs.

I agree. The success rate for quarterbacks is low, regardless of where they are drafted. 32 teams with 3 qbs each = 96 NFL qbs, give or take, most of which were drafted. How many can truly play well at this level? maybe 20? So you've already got a hit rate just about 20%.

But we all know how important a good qb is to a team, and that an elite qb can make your team a perennial contender with only average parts around him. So teams will take risks with high picks on a qb, and they are probably right to do so.

It sure does suck when they miss, though. Which the odds say they probably will.

[jbergey22]

Interesting topic. However I dont think it would be taking a flier on him. Im guessing quite a few teams want him.

He came out of high school as the #1 QB in the nation. His freshmen year was basically a waste because the oline wasnt good and he wasnt ready. The past two years he has improved to one of the best qbs in the nation. Im guessing he will be taken early 1st because of the Weis vote of confidence however I see him as more of a 2nd round qb. I dont think his upside is as high as what a 1st round QB should be.

Whoever gets Ryan Mallet in a couple years is getting the next great QB. I could not be more impressed with his arm and decision making.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Lathum

That is a whole different argument.

He said the majority of high performing QB's weren't considered to be drafted pick, numbers say otherwise.

Now if you want to say there is no guarantee a high drafted QB will lead you to the promised land you certainly have a good argument.

Can I now change my proposition?

Actually I didn't realize Big Ben and Joe Flaco were 1st rounders. Matt Ryan completely slipped my mind as being that good BC QB from not all that long ago.

I still view finding a franchise QB in the draft somewhat akin to practicing voodoo. I guess there are fewer Tom Bradys and Joe Montanas that I anecdotaly perceived.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I'm not sure that is entirely true.

Looking at the playoff teams last year

Titans- Kerry Collins- 5th overall pick
Steelers- Big Ben- 11th overall
Dolphins- Chad Pennington- 18th overall
Chargers- Rivers- 4th overall
Colts- Peyton- 1st overall
Ravens- Joe Flacco- 18th
Giants- Eli- 1st
Atlanta Falcons- Matt Ryan- 3rd
Eagles- McNAbb- 5th

The only teams who made the playoffs last year that didn't have a 1st round QB taken were the Panthers with Delhomme, Cards with Warner and Vikings with Jackson, who was a second rounder.

Of the teams who didn't make it that are still good we all know the Brady story, Brees was the first pick in the second round and Rodgers was a late first rounder but mostly slipped because of circumstances.

I think there is a definite relationship between being a high drafted QB and success, we just get the Tom Brady/ Kurt Warner stories shoved down our throats, so we tend to forget all the McNabbs/ Mannings/ Rothlesbergers of the world.

Yeah, I thought that was an odd comment too. I think that the idea that "the majority of high performing quarterbacks were not drafted high in the first round" is patently false. But, I suppose it depends on how you define "high in the first round" If you limit "high" to the first 3-5 picks, then the majority of successful players at any position are going to come from outside that group.

But, stories like Warner and Brady (does anyone really every confuse Delhomme with being high performing?) remain clearly in the minority. The bulk of successful QBs come from the first two rounds. That is largely about opportunity, as only in emergency (true in both the Warner and Brady cases) do guys get opportunities. Look at the starters around the league, and the

I see that glen has amended his proposition somewhat, but still includes Montana in the "late round surprise" category. Guys taken in the 3rd round are generally expected to be starting caliber players. Sure, that does not always work out (as with any draft position) but Montana was a Heisman trophy candidate drafted to be a starter - he is certainly not in the "come from nowhere" succes story category with Brady and Warner.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Not playing in the NFL.

Exactly. I haven't seen enough of Pike to pronounce him a bust, but coming from a system where Ben Mauk did great before being dismissed, unheralded Zach Collaros did very well, and even Dustin Grutza was ahead of Pike on the depth chart makes me skeptical. Obviously given Tom Brady and Joe Flacco we can't assume every coach knows what he's doing, and Pike does have good size and surprising mobility, but when I watch Cincinnati I'm struck by how wide open their receivers are - a credit to Brian Kelly and the scheme.

Originally Posted by Matthean

Collins and Pennington don't start anymore and it's unlikely either would get a look as a serious answer to a starting QB job. Both would be token starters until the new stud QB learns the ropes at best.

In Pennington's defense it was injuries that slowed him down. When he was healthy he was easily worth the 1st round pick.

Originally Posted by DanGarion

I just never saw anything really amazing out of him from the games I watched.

I know it's a highlight video, but it's a Golden Tate highlight video I posted last page. There were the couple absurd jump ball/hail mary wins by Tate I remembered, but watching it with an eye on Clausen I was struck by how many passes hit Tate in stride even when Clausen was on the run. He may still have a long windup and struggle some underthrowing the deep ball but his accuracy is great, particularly on the 10 yard outs and 7 yard crossing routes that make up much of NFL teams playbooks.

[Celeval]

No way that Cleveland goes for Clausen - even if he falls into the second round. Either Brady Quinn has a shot at being a solid quarterback (and I tend to think he does - he's a third-year guy, has played only 12 games, has shown improvement every season, and has a positive TD/Int ratio), or he'll be let go, and there's no way they'll draft two straight ND quarterbacks in the first round.

If Cleveland gets #1, I have a feeling they'll try to move down with a team who picks around 3-7, wants Suh, and will give up a third rounder for the ability to get him. I'd tend to guess Eric Berry (the Browns secondary is the worst unit on the team). The offense desperately needs playmakers, but there's not a guy with Crabtree's reputation available at the top of the draft this year (unless Bryant goes crazy at the combine). I'd guess DB in the first round, and either RB or LB in the second.

After taking two 2nd round WRs last year, I'd be surprised if they went there again, but if so, Jacoby Ford out of Clemson is a guy who could be available then.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Celeval

After taking two 2nd round WRs last year, I'd be surprised if they went there again, but if so, Jacoby Ford out of Clemson is a guy who could be available then.

With most teams now having 3, 4, and 5 WR sets as part of their base packages, I think that it is hard to have too many on the team.

I know that Drew Brees has a lot to do with the Saints success, but the team has also put enough weapons around him that when players go down with injuries, he still has people to catch the ball.

I'm not saying that every team needs 6 good WRs on the team. But I do think that it is a position that, if the value is on the board, you pull the trigger and know that you will be able to find a place for the guy if he is as good as you think he is.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Samdari

...

I see that glen has amended his proposition somewhat, but still includes Montana in the "late round surprise" category. Guys taken in the 3rd round are generally expected to be starting caliber players. Sure, that does not always work out (as with any draft position) but Montana was a Heisman trophy candidate drafted to be a starter - he is certainly not in the "come from nowhere" succes story category with Brady and Warner.

First. I'm not sure I have a 'position' here. My overall belief is that it is not easy to select a franchise QB in the draft. I perceived, albeit incorrectly, that the Montanas and Bradys (relatively later draft picks) were as prevalent as the Manning Brothers(high first round picks). The basis for that perception is the number of Heath Shulers, Ryan Leafs, and Joey Harringtons. QB is just a high variance position, with a lot of volatility.

So my overall thought that finding a franchise QB in the draft is very hard to do still stands. My perception of why that is the case was incorrect. So incorrect that I guess that one really doesn't have much choice If you want to improve your lot at QB through the draft. You should be willing to make that early selection. Even though you have considerable chance at picking up a bust. You will have more success than if you wait a round or two.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Celeval

If Cleveland gets #1, I have a feeling they'll try to move down with a team who picks around 3-7, wants Suh, and will give up a third rounder for the ability to get him. I'd tend to guess Eric Berry (the Browns secondary is the worst unit on the team).

Why not just draft Suh and put him next to Shaun Rogers? That'll disguise a whole lot of bad secondaries, and Rogers will be close to retirement around when Suh's rookie contract is ending/being extended.

[BishopMVP]

Football Outsiders had some links to discussion on this topic (1st round QB's vs. later-drafted ones, not Jimmy Clausen). Most recent discussion here - FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Malcolm Gladwell vs. Steven Pinker vs. David Berri vs. Jason Lisk vs. David Lewin - and here was the first go-round - FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Gladwell On Scouting

I don't want to re-parse it, but there are/were definitely links to studies various places in the comments.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Corp wasn't hurt at all past the second or third week of the season, he just sucked so bad against Washington that it made it a moot point. The coaches weren't going to go back to him after that, fair or not. His stats don't tell just how bad he was in that game, he physically couldn't throw the ball further than 10 yards and should have had at least 2-3 more picks.

This is getting really off topic but Mustain is a really wierd situation. Arguably he has the best arm of the 3 but he just has shown absolutely no leadership skills or intangeables whatsoever, and is completely unwilling to be vocal in the huddle etc, to the point where the coaches don't feel comfortable putting him in the game. Rumor is he's expecting to be the next Matt Cassell and doesn't care that he's not getting in the game at all. Very strange.

Agreed with all of this. Corp was one of the worst looking QB I've ever seen at USC, and I've seen Rob Johnson and some other bad QB's in the mid 90's.

Once Barkley led the Ohio State drive for the comeback, I knew he was the QB for good until he graduates/goes pro.

[Eaglesfan27]

Dola -

Getting back on topic, I don't see how it is taking a flier on Clausen. He is a legitimate first round prospect who will go in the first half of the round. The only thing that might hurt him is Quinn's performance and the fact that ND QB's haven't done that well recently. But, I've seen Clausen make some great throws when he has time and has a good enough arm to be a very solid QB.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Getting back on topic, I don't see how it is taking a flier on Clausen. He is a legitimate first round prospect who will go in the first half of the round. The only thing that might hurt him is Quinn's performance and the fact that ND QB's haven't done that well recently. But, I've seen Clausen make some great throws when he has time and has a good enough arm to be a very solid QB.

Quinn's performance will be taken into account, but other than that who are we talking about? Ron Powlus and Jarious Jackson? Going back 15 years to Rick Mirer in 1994?

Agreed on the rest.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Quinn's performance will be taken into account, but other than that who are we talking about? Ron Powlus and Jarious Jackson? Going back 15 years to Rick Mirer in 1994?

Agreed on the rest.

My point was that ND hasn't produced NFL quality QB's that have performed well since Montana, unless there is someone I'm forgetting. I don't think it will be a huge factor, but with Quinn's lack of success so far it will be a minor factor.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

Montanas and Bradys

My main point was that the situations of these two are not remotely similar. Please stop grouping them like they had the same story.

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

So my overall thought that finding a franchise QB in the draft is very hard to do still stands.

I agree that its hard to find QBs. Your chances go up the higher they are drafted.

I dont agree that you should avoid taking a QB early because of how often they fail. Its hard to find players. IIRC, QB tracks with most other positions on success rate, with interior OL, LB and RB having rates higher than the rest - which is partly why those positions are devalued in the draft.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Samdari

I see that glen has amended his proposition somewhat, but still includes Montana in the "late round surprise" category. Guys taken in the 3rd round are generally expected to be starting caliber players. Sure, that does not always work out (as with any draft position) but Montana was a Heisman trophy candidate drafted to be a starter - he is certainly not in the "come from nowhere" succes story category with Brady and Warner.

3rd round QBs from 1974 to 1984

1974 -- Danny White, David Jaynes, Kim McQuilken, Gary Marangi
1975 -- Gary Shiede
1978 -- Mark Miller, Gifford Nielsen
1979 -- Joe Montana
1984 -- Jeff Hostetler, Rick McIvor, Jay Schroeder

Not sure what to make of this list, but wow, the league was a lot different then. No QBs drafted in the first 2 rounds in 1974, one drafted in the first 2 rounds in 1975 Steve Bartkowski, who went 1.1)...obviously by 1983 that all changes, but even in '79, Montana was only the 4th QB drafted.

[Logan]

I'm lazy...how many less teams were there back then?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Why not just draft Suh and put him next to Shaun Rogers? That'll disguise a whole lot of bad secondaries, and Rogers will be close to retirement around when Suh's rookie contract is ending/being extended.

No shit, a dominant DT makes the whole defense look good. Just look at Tampa with Warren Sapp and most recently the Bears when Tommie Harris was the best in the game.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Dola -

Getting back on topic, I don't see how it is taking a flier on Clausen. He is a legitimate first round prospect who will go in the first half of the round. The only thing that might hurt him is Quinn's performance and the fact that ND QB's haven't done that well recently. But, I've seen Clausen make some great throws when he has time and has a good enough arm to be a very solid QB.

From what I've seen of Clausen, I agree. Definitely a first round prospect and, while he may not have the upside of some the other potential first round QBs, I think he's the most polished coming out of college.

On some level, I'd be much more comfortable drafting a guy who played in a pro style offense in college and had a, what, 68% completion percentage over a guy who had a completion percentage in the 50's (like Stafford).

[stevew]

How does Pryor rate for 2011? Number one?

[Karlifornia]

Locker could wind up being a poor man's Steve Young if he gets better as a passer.

Clausen is a great college QB and could be good in the pros. It always depends on the situation, though. Look at Alex Smith...he's finally getting it together after what? 5 years? All it took was Frank Gore being Frank Gore, VD finally saying "fuck this I want to be the best TE in the league", and a couple of decent receivers. The best situation I think for Clausen would be to go late first round to a team like the Cardinals.

I also wonder if Jerry Jones is going to get tired of Tony Romo any time soon.