Magic The Gathering

[RendeR]

This is kinda what shot down our group too, the pwoergamers would simply build the tourney winning insta-win decks and it got boring.


I still have a few decks and tonnes of cards. If there were more just "for fun" players here i'd probably still have a group at my place every Sunday afternoon.

[Tasan]

My group tends to make rules about making the game un-fun. We play a lot of EDH/commander and have an over and above ban list. We also try to keep those decks down to a combo or so as well, just to keep the games from getting locked down. Of course, we have one Spike in the group that we always have to yell at for breaking something, like Glissa the Traitor and Nevineral's disc. Most of us like to build casual 60 card decks too, and have a lot of fun running those against each other. Plus, OCTGN has a great sealed deck game built in, and we often get on there and just do that. I HIGHLY recommend OCTGN. In fact, if anyone wants to join us in our groups, you're more than welcome. When playing OCTGN, we limit ourselves to using only cards we physically own, just to not go batshit crazy.

[Abe Sargent]

You just need to find the right Magic groups and players. I'm a great player, so I handicap myself with a 2500+ card Highlander deck that I've built over the last ten years or so. When I have a deck that inconsistent, and with just one copy of each card, it really handicaps me vs the field. It also makes each game play very differently.


Or perhaps you might want to try different formats. Make the person who really wants to win the Archenemy and you all get to gang up on that person. Maybe you have each person play one of the Commander decks or pre-con 60 card decks. I think there are some interesting ways to deal with a playgroup where some people want to relax a bit and have fun while others want to try to win quickly and completely.


And this is true of lots of games. I remember this discussion about Scrabble and Words with Friends in another thread. Some loved playing the hardcore words you didn't know and others thought it was against the spirit of the game, to just hang out, and test your vocabulary. Same thing with Magic.

[Lathum]

I think you guys are going off topic here.

My original rant was specifically about the online game and not getting together with a group of people and forming house rules.

[Abe Sargent]

The casual rooms vary by format. Some casual formats have a lot more casual decks than others. You could try the casual formats like Pauper or Prismatic to get some more casual play against truly casual decks.

[Draft Dodger]

yeah, I don't remember being a huge fan of MTGO but more because I never liked paying for virtual cards and less because of the people. But I LOVE the PC game (Duel of the Planeswalkers?). I think I paid $10 on steam and totally worth every penny.

[Matthean]

We didn't do tourney deck rules so it freed things up a little bit, but we absolutely had the hardcore min/max type of friend who sucked the fun out of just about any game we played. It got to the point where I would complete a PC/console game before telling him about it so I had the chance to actually enjoy it.

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

yeah, I don't remember being a huge fan of MTGO but more because I never liked paying for virtual cards and less because of the people. But I LOVE the PC game (Duel of the Planeswalkers?). I think I paid $10 on steam and totally worth every penny.

Still needs actual deck building options versus what seems to be changing around prebuilt decks. It also needs to open up more cards for multiplayer games. This would be a goldmine if they did it right.

[Tasan]

Hey Abe, congrats on the deck mention on Daily MtG's Daily Deck List!

[BYU 14]

Got back into this around July, as if I needed another hobby, but the kids and wife play a bit too and started doing some casual Sunday standard tourney's at a local store.

Really like the new set Khans of Tarkir as it has opened up a bigger of variety of decks compared to standard before rotation. Of course that will probably lesson after the pro tour and people start to copy successful decks that won there. I still think the wedge idea offers enough variety through that the standard game won't get as boring as it was before Ravnica rotated out and made the 4 or 5 deck types that really dominated irrelevant.

Having a lot a of fun playing again after probably 17 years away from the game.

[Autumn]

So I've never played Magic in my life. But my boys got given some free starter decks of some sort of free starter decks and they're having fun playing it. They are 8 and 11, and not at all serious or competitive about it, but probably have some friends that play. Any suggestions on the best way to go if they want to get a few more cards or a basic set to get into the game at this point?

[CleBrownsfan]

If your boys are just looking to collect cards and don't care if they're in a standard format (standard format is the latest cards from the past couple sets) then I suggest getting them this:
Super Collection

or

1000 Magic the Gathering Cards

If you wanted to stay in the current "block" than maybe this:
Magic: the Gathering - Khans of Tarkir

Fat pack comes with 9 booster packs (15 cards in a pack) and some basic lands.

Hope this helps...

[Autumn]

That's great, thanks. Yeah, they don't care about standard format.

[Abe Sargent]

I have been officially published on the mothership as of, about 36 minutes ago.




My article:

White Baby, White! | MAGIC: THE GATHERING

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I have been officially published on the mothership as of, about 36 minutes ago.




My article:

White Baby, White! | MAGIC: THE GATHERING

Congrats Abe

[CleBrownsfan]

wow - awesome article Abe!

[CleBrownsfan]

dola

Anyone play MTG online? If so, add me (Broth32894) and we'll play sometime.

[Abe Sargent]

Thanks thanks!


EDIT - I'm guest-judging a tournament on campus this weekend too.

[BYU 14]

Congrats Abe and great stuff!

And as an aside I won my first in-store tournament yesterday going 5-0-1 on the day with my Mardu deck.

The cool part was in the swiss rounds I beat the guy who just the day before had won the Northern version of Arizona State championship up in Flagstaff 2-0. Though the Flagstaff event was not as big as the metro Phoenix even, it still had over 100 other competitors.

When the guy that runs the store I play at said he was stopping by to play in our Sunday afternoon tourney a few of the guys were like, "Oh shit" so I was pretty pumped to get the W over him. Though I will admit the draw was very kind to me.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Congrats Abe and great stuff!

And as an aside I won my first in-store tournament yesterday going 5-0-1 on the day with my Mardu deck.

The cool part was in the swiss rounds I beat the guy who just the day before had won the Northern version of Arizona State championship up in Flagstaff 2-0. Though the Flagstaff event was not as big as the metro Phoenix even, it still had over 100 other competitors.

When the guy that runs the store I play at said he was stopping by to play in our Sunday afternoon tourney a few of the guys were like, "Oh shit" so I was pretty pumped to get the W over him. Though I will admit the draw was very kind to me.

Grats!

[The Jackal]

I used to love me some MTG, only played in a couple of tournaments. Was visiting home recently and some friends had gotten booster packs and my deck ended up being the best or second best, so much fun. Just don't have the opportunity to play these days and the amount of new abilities/card types that I've never experienced is fairly overwhelming.

[The Jackal]

Also, great article, had fun reading it

[Tasan]

Congrats Abe!

I've found myself reading the mothership less and less these days since it switched styles and timing of release, but now that I know you are writing there, I'll try to make a better effort. Are you going to be a Monday regular?

[Terps]

I've never played, but I was going through boxes of my old sports cards and found a box (deck?) of Magic cards from either 1994 or 1995.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Terps

I've never played, but I was going through boxes of my old sports cards and found a box (deck?) of Magic cards from either 1994 or 1995.

Awesome!

A few cards from that era can be worth a bit of cash. Most of the stuff is junk that was antiquated later. Just depends. Sort of like a lottery ticket. If you don't wanna do your research I'd be happy to let you know what's the good stuff if you post it or pm me.

[Terps]

I'll have to dig them back out tomorrow, and let you know what's in it.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Terps

I've never played, but I was going through boxes of my old sports cards and found a box (deck?) of Magic cards from either 1994 or 1995.

You should definitely open yours because you never know you might find this:


Man finds rare $30,000 card during live Magic: The Gathering deck opening | Plugged In - Yahoo Games

go almost 8 mins in to the video to see what the card was.

[Abe Sargent]

Yup yup, you never know when you'll get a hit!

P.S. I have a Black Lotus. It's not Alpha, its Unlimited.

[The Jackal]

I think Eureka is the most valuable card I have, which was a gift and not a random find.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Yup yup, you never know when you'll get a hit!

P.S. I have a Black Lotus. It's not Alpha, its Unlimited.

I probably have a Black Lotus, but its been so long since I looked at my cards, I have no idea for sure.

[The Jackal]

I have a demonic tutor too but not sure how much that would be worth

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I have a demonic tutor too but not sure how much that would be worth

Depends on condition and set, but 10-15 fpor most copies

[Abe Sargent]

I'm goign to write up a quick lil primer for ya'll on Magic Finances, 2014 style, get you caught up on stuff, hold on.

[Abe Sargent]

Just wrote up my Primer over the last hour. Enjoy!


This Primer aims to get you to understand the basic state of magic finances in 2014 as it relates to cards printed in the first 2.5 years of Magic, through the end of 1995. That means all cards through Homelands, for those keeping track of stuff in the back.

Now, most of the cards printed from 1993-1995 were in sales runs that were sold out fairly quickly, and low runs. Today, the number of people has greatly increased. There are more people playing Magic today than played World of Warcraft at its height. It's big stuff.

So the large number of people combined with the relative scarcity of cards from this era should equate to high prices for those of you holding onto cards from your playgroup. Right?

Well, not usually.

Some cards have held up remarkably well. Others have been huge financial hits out of nowhere. And that's great! But most just aren't worth that much.

I'm sure that you are familiar with the ins and outs of card gaming. Cards which are better, either for tournaments or casual play, generally tend to be worth more than those that are not. Given the same supply, the demand will increase for the better card, and its price will rise. Yay good card!

The problem is that most of the good cards from this era, that would usually be worth a lot today, just have been left behind. There has been some power creep. Intentionally. The developrs felt that creature combat was the core of the game, but creatures weren't good enough. Over the years we've seen a huge upswing in the power level of creatures. Therefore, early cards that had a lot of power, particularly creatures, have been antiquated. In fact,virtually all of the good early creatures have been reprinted multiple times and have very little value - Hypnotic Specter, Clone, Shivan Dragon, Erhnam Djinn, Juggernaut, Mahamoti Djinn, Serra Angel, and Sengir Vampire have all been reprinted so frequently that they have no real value on the market above a few coins.

The best example of this is probably Savannah Lions, once pulled from the core set for being too good as a rare 2/1 for one mana with no drawback Today, you can run something like Soldier of the Pantheon which is a 2/1 for one with two useful abilities. Meanwhile Savannah Lions was reprinted as an uncommon in a later core set, so it's value tanked. So there's not a lot of demand for the Lion today.

And this is true of a lot of cards of the era. Because demand has dropped, there is not the same value for the scarcity.

So, what cards have value?

If a card is really good in a format like Vintage or Legacy, or a bedrock staple in a casual-only format called Commander, then its value may be considerable. Cards like Moat, The Abyss, the original ten dual-lands, and such have really high prices. These were heavy players from the era, there's no surprises to see them still punching above their weight class.

There are some reasons why a lot of individual cards dropped in value, so let's take a look a at some specifics:


Reprints in a Set - A ton of early cards were reprinted in later sets during the Modern era. Fireball has been reprinted. Lightning Bolt was a common in a Core Set. Birds of Paradise has been in tons of sets. Even a powerhouse like Swords to Plowshares was an uncommon in a set as recently as this past summer (Conspiracy). Lots of cards made it to main sets. A lot of cards from this era that have value in part due to scarcity have been reprinted. For example, cards like Twiddle, Rukh Egg, Dwarven Demolition Team and Invisibility were all worth a few bucks because they had been limited in the first few sets of the game; all made the cut in later sets.

Reprints as a Premium Card - Meanwhile, a lot of cards were reprinted as a foil. Even cards on the Reserve List were reprinted in a premium state for years. Cards like Maze of Ith, Balance, and Serendib Efreet have been reprinted in a premium card. This reduces the value of the printed ones because more product hits the market. However, many cards from this still are worth something. Maze of Ith dropped after it's printing, but it's still worth a lot of money.

Reprints in a Constructed Deck - Today Wizards of the Coast releases a ton of decks that are prebuilt. Most feature cards from the last year or three. However, some of these decks have printed cards from the early era. Some of the best hitters from this era that were too good to see printing in a normal set (because of how it would negatively impact Standard) have since been released in these stand alone products. The standard for stealing creatures in Control Magic, which used to be a few dollars. Last December, it was printed as a one0of in a Commander deck, putting a lot of those cards on the market. Meanwhile, Nevinyrral's Disk was also in a deck. Ten times we've seen Sol Ring in these decks, and it's been a premium card too. Despite teh fact that it's arguably the most vital of the Commander essentials, it's mass production in the last few years has kept the price of it reasonable. Cards such as Basalt Monolith, Rubinia Soulsinger, and Night Soil have all hit these products.

Too Limited - Many of the cards from the early era of Magic are overly specialized and appeal to only a tiny subset of Magic players. They just aren't that good. Cards like Sorrow's Path, Lifelace, and Active Volcano just are too limited in scope. You have to really push them in a deck to make them work.

Too Weak - Meanwhile, early developers were often afraid to make something too powerful. They dialed back its power or casting cost so much that it's basically unusable. The best example of this, ever, is Obelisk of Undoing. There are tons of players today trying to intentionally bounce their own stuff. This is a pretty useful ability that haws a home in today's decks. But they were clearly afraid, so they made it cost 6 mana to activate. Plus it taps the artifact too, so it can only be used once, and just on your own stuff. That's way too weak. The weakened Time Elemental because bouncing was scary so you couldn't bounce a card that was enchanted. Take a look at cards from Rakalite to weak stuff like Bronze Horse that just were not that good, because they were overly weakened. Worms of the Earht might have been interesting, so let's make sure your opponent has two ways to destroy it built into the card.

That means we have a lot of cards that were too weak, too limited in scope, or have been subsequently reprinted. Meanwhile, many of the cards were antiquated by later stuff.

Now, just because a card was reprinted does not mean it's not worth anything. Cards like Demonic Tutor, Swords to Plowshares, and more still have some value. Based on condition and set, Swords to Plowshares is still in the $3 - $4 range. Wrath of God is $5-$6. Llanowar Elves is between a quarter and $0.50. Lightning Bolt is still around two bucks.

Meanwhile, cards that hit, and were not reprinted, have been major hits. If you own a dual-land, depending on condition and the colors, it's worth quite a bit of money. Some are worth more than $100, with Underground Sea in the high $200 to the low $300s. Others, like Taiga or Scrubland, are a lot less but still worth quite a bit of sauce. Cards like Moat, Mana Drain, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Bazaar of Baghdad, Diamond Valley, Karakas, and Candelabra of Tawnos are just worth an undeniably incredible amount of cash.

If you have a Commander staple, then you could have card that is in high demand by casual Commander players with limited print runs. This can drive the price of a few unusual older cards as well. Angus Mackenzie is a perfect example, with a copy netting you $69 for a near mint one. Many of the best, iconic, and fun legends are also worth a splash of cash - Dakkon Blackblade, Gwendlyn Di Corci, Hazezon Tamar, Rasputin Dreamweaver and Adon Oakenshield. If they were reprinted ever, they tend to have much weaker prices (like Chromium and other Elder Dragon Legends). Cards like Land Tax and Sylvan Library are also worth a lot, especially for the Legends versions. (they were both reprinted in Fourth Edition, and those are worth some cash as well). Land Equilibrium, Nether Void and Invoke Prejudice are also three cards of note from the era.


So there are a few hits from the Commander realm have jumped up the price of cards, typically from limited edition releases like Arabian Nights and Legends.

Cards from later releases just don't have a lot of value. After Legends, the sets were printed in much higher numbers, and there are not that many true hits of the era. Very few cards from The Dark, Fallen Empires, Ice Age, and Homelands are worth more than $10. Shoot, only nine cards from those four sets are worth at least $5. (For your reference, they are Ball Lightning, Blood Moon, Preacher, Maze of Ith, Swords to Plowshares, Baron Sengir, Didgeridoo, Necropotence, and Goblin Wizard.)

If you have a true hit on your hands, then it was likely printed earlier. You might have some value in bulk (Hymn to Tourach is $2 each near mint, as an example), but the cost of the vast majority of your cards is just coins a card.

Anyway, I hope that helps!

[Toddzilla]

Abe, I was thinking about you watching this - skip to 8 minutes in for the rares:

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I think Eureka is the most valuable card I have, which was a gift and not a random find.

Eureka is a hit. For years and years it was hard to sell and had a low value. But then a Legacy deck built around dropping really expensive cards hit the shelves and pushed alternate ways oof casting big stuff onto the forefront of tournaments.

Today, in both Legeacy and Modern, they are about dropping very expensive and hard to deal with creatures in the first few turns and winning with them. THat's why Karakas is $100+ despite being an uncommon from Legends - it bounces a legendary creature to their hand, which includes all of the big giant beaters that are abused right now in those formats.

Eureka jumped in price considerably. Have an English version? It's between $75 and $100 depending on condition.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Eureka is a hit. For years and years it was hard to sell and had a low value. But then a Legacy deck built around dropping really expensive cards hit the shelves and pushed alternate ways oof casting big stuff onto the forefront of tournaments.

Today, in both Legeacy and Modern, they are about dropping very expensive and hard to deal with creatures in the first few turns and winning with them. THat's why Karakas is $100+ despite being an uncommon from Legends - it bounces a legendary creature to their hand, which includes all of the big giant beaters that are abused right now in those formats.

Eureka jumped in price considerably. Have an English version? It's between $75 and $100 depending on condition.

Yeah it's English, I'd have to find it. Probably the only card I ever kept in a sleeve, haha.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Abe, I was thinking about you watching this - skip to 8 minutes in for the rares:

Amazing Todd! That vid looks exactly the same as the one I posted yesterday!

[Toddzilla]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA oops

[Abe Sargent]

Ahhhh

[cschex]

I finally sold the bulk of my valuable cards earlier this year. Mostly Revised, so not the uber prices of A/B/U, but I had 7 dual lands and cleared around $500 for about 25 cards total (which kickstarted the funds for my growing board game collection). I still have enough basic cards that I can make totally viable decks (albiet with the rules from that era) that I plan to use for playing with my daughters as they get older.

[Fidatelo]

I had purchased a small little collection of Magic back near its origins, but at the time my brother was my only playing partner and he never took to the game so it never progressed. I'm pretty sure I had some dual lands. I know I sold some of my better cards to a guy in high school that liked to play, but I'm going to check tonight to see if I still have any of those lands. That would be kind of a fun discovery!

[Abe Sargent]

Good luck with that! Let us know how it turns out!

[sterlingice]

It's interesting to pull out my white-blue deck I made in college and see what the cards are worth from time to time. The Reserved tundras were $15ish then and, predictably, are sick cost now. A couple of the cards like the Icy Manipulator dropped in price a lot. A lot of things have only fluctuated a little like Balance, Swords to Plowshares, Serra Angels, Mahamoti Djinn, etc. The one that stunned me when I came back to it was the Force of Wills that weren't big cost at the time, maybe $5- like standard rare cost- are hanging out in the $100 range.

SI

[The Jackal]

mm serra angel

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

It's interesting to pull out my white-blue deck I made in college and see what the cards are worth from time to time. The Reserved tundras were $15ish then and, predictably, are sick cost now. A couple of the cards like the Icy Manipulator dropped in price a lot. A lot of things have only fluctuated a little like Balance, Swords to Plowshares, Serra Angels, Mahamoti Djinn, etc. The one that stunned me when I came back to it was the Force of Wills that weren't big cost at the time, maybe $5- like standard rare cost- are hanging out in the $100 range.

SI

If you have that deck now, then yep, those are money cards, from the post 1995 era (96 for Alliances's Force, and some other cards like Wasteland are huge hits as well).

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

If you have that deck now, then yep, those are money cards, from the post 1995 era (96 for Alliances's Force, and some other cards like Wasteland are huge hits as well).

Yeah, still sitting in a baseball card box in my closet along with some other fun decks I had tooled around with at the time (silly sliver deck!). It was my main deck and I enjoyed playing it- not good enough for competition but good for leisurely play. I suspect many cards in it have been bypassed in strength now, though.

SI

[cschex]

Enjoyed the article that Abe posted, even though none of the keywords make sense to me any more. I loved Balance back in the day (I mained a White/Green deck). The original artwork was one of my favorite pieces in the game.

Also, as said above, Serra Angel ftw.

[Abe Sargent]

Oh, shit. I'm an idiot.


I created a variant fo Commander you'd probably really like Commander '95 where you just use cards printed up through 95.

StarCityGames.com - The Kitchen Table: Commander '95

I've published about it a few other times. But if you are interested in Commander, that might be the place to start.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Oh, shit. I'm an idiot.


I created a variant fo Commander you'd probably really like Commander '95 where you just use cards printed up through 95.

StarCityGames.com - The Kitchen Table: Commander '95

I've published about it a few other times. But if you are interested in Commander, that might be the place to start.

Except I don't have any power cards. I got in around Ice Age through, I dunno, Exodus-ish. So, not a lot of terribly powerful or expensive cards

SI

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Except I don't have any power cards. I got in around Ice Age through, I dunno, Exodus-ish. So, not a lot of terribly powerful or expensive cards

SI

Really?

The Rath Cycle Block has some of the most powerful, broken, and nasty cards ever printed in Magic after the first few years. Survival of the Fittest? Recurring Nightmare? Oath of Druids? Cursed Scroll? Wasteland is nasty expensive as an uncommon, and it features massive casual hits like Sliver Queen and Volrath;s Stronghold that are worth serious coinage.

I named the Stronghold as the best card for multiplayer of all time like a year ago in one of my columns.