The 2022 MLB Season (?)

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Why do I have a feeling that the owners' counteroffer this weekend will be "universal DH, no QO, oh, and none of the core economic issues have moved more than 5% so we're still super far off, but, hey, we made a counter-offer!"

SI

Give this man a kewpie doll.

MLBPA "Unimpressed" By MLB's Latest Offer In CBA Negotiations - MLB Trade Rumors

Despite agreeing on the proposal, the league and the union have remained far apart on the size. The players initially proposed a total of $105MM, with the league countering by offering $10MM. The players later dropped their ask to $100MM, with the owners today increasing their offer to $15MM.

There was also slight modification to MLB’s proposal regarding the Competitive Balance Tax thresholds. Previously, the plan was to have a limit of $214MM for 2022 through 2024, increasing to $216MM in 2025 and $220MM in 2026. Today’s proposal retained that $214MM number for 2022 and 2023, bumped to $216MM in 2024, and then $218MM and $222MM in the final two years of the deal. The players, on the other hand, have been looking for the threshold to be in the $245MM-260MM range for the five years covered by the deal.

The proposed tax rates for surpassing these thresholds hasn’t changed since MLB’s last proposal, although the draft pick compensation was slightly modified. Under the previous proposal, teams surpassing the first threshold (spending less than $234MM on a proposed $214MM tax threshold) would have to surrender a third round draft pick, though that was dropped to no draft penalty for today’s offer. However, teams would still be paying the same 50 percent tax on every dollar spent within that $214-$234MM area.

[sterlingice]

I don't want a kewpie doll, I want a fair labor agreement and baseball but the owners are less interested.

SI

[cuervo72]

Eh, I don't know that I give a damn anymore. Bring on spring football!

[RainMaker]

Heads up to anyone who gets the MLB package. It auto-renews at the end of February and they will charge you even if there is no season. So might want to cancel that.

[Ksyrup]

In 2020, I canceled before Covid hit (I had decided to cut back) and they STILL took until June or July to reimburse me for the first month.

[sterlingice]

Thanks for the reminder! Done

It only let me pick "Other" for my reason. I couldn't select "your self-serving lockout"

SI

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

In 2020, I canceled before Covid hit (I had decided to cut back) and they STILL took until June or July to reimburse me for the first month.

Like 10 years ago I remember canceling and they charged me anyway. Was no way to speak to someone for a refund so I had to do a chargeback. Their customer service is non-existent.

[miami_fan]

So has baseball replaced the bowl of amphetamine with a bowl of oxycodone?

[Swaggs]

Luckily, they are rich and famous, so they probably won't get criminal charges filed against them.

[Ksyrup]

Today's meeting lasted 15 minutes.

PLAY BALL!

[stevew]

The prices being paid for base 2022 Topps Series 1 Wander Franco rookies are just nuts. Like there’s (probably way more than) 200K+ of them, nobody should be paying 20$+ for it.

[tarcone]

I am sad that pitchers and catchers did not get to report.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Luckily, they are rich and famous, so they probably won't get criminal charges filed against them.

Harvey had the most criminal liability (can argue as much as Kay since he provided Skaggs with the drugs). But he was given immunity. Not sure on the others.

Verdict is in.

BREAKING: Jury finds Eric Kay GUILTY for distributing fentanyl and causing the death of Tyler Skaggs.

— T.J. Quinn (@TJQuinnESPN) February 17, 2022

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Harvey had the most criminal liability (can argue as much as Kay since he provided Skaggs with the drugs). But he was given immunity. Not sure on the others.

Verdict is in.

BREAKING: Jury finds Eric Kay GUILTY for distributing fentanyl and causing the death of Tyler Skaggs.

— T.J. Quinn (@TJQuinnESPN) February 17, 2022

We all know that not all drug charges are treated equally. It's ridiculous that he gets no criminal charges.

[RainMaker]

Kay faces a minimum of 20 years in jail. Wow.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Kay faces a minimum of 20 years in jail. Wow.

Good and hopefully others get the message, this shit is a scourge. 6 players I coached in high school have died from this shit over the past 7 years and there are a few more that have battled it.

[SirFozzie]

An updated status of the MLB/MLBPA negotiations

Owners (Pre-lockout): "Take This shit offer."
Players: "Um, No."
Owners: Ok you're locked out. we hope this puts some urgency on your decision to take our shit offer.
Players: We want what we say we want, and we'll negotiate to try to get it.
Owners: We'll get back to you
(2 Months Pass)
Owners: Now that you have been locked out, take the shit offer.
Players: No, but we're willing to bend somewhat.
Owners: Well, in the spirit of negotiating, we'll modify our offer a bit
Players: Well that's.. wait, that's the same shit offer.
Owners: No it's not. Not... completely
Players: You drew a bowtie on the shit offer!
Owners: Look, are you going to take the shit offer or not?
Players: No.. but..
Owners: Well, this isn't going to get us (meaning our side) anywhere, bring in the mediators.
Players: No, we said we want to negotiate with you directly, besides, that would just allow you to run out the clock further to try to pressure us,
Owners: Ok (shrugs)
Players: So for our next offer...
Owners: Take the shit offer.
Players: Wait, what about our...?
Owners: Take the Shit offer.
Players: Argh..
Owners: Ok, we will modify our offer.
Players: Finally, some movement. Wait, this is still the shit offer!
Owners: It is not! it's 98.5% similar to our past offer, but..
Players: That just means it's 98.5% shit!
Owners: Take it.
Players: No.
Owners: Then we're going to start cancelling games until you take the shit offer.
Players: Look, we're here to negotiate, but it takes two to negotiate, and you ain't doing that.
Owners: See fans? This is all the players fault!

[sterlingice]

Yeah, pretty much

SI

[miami_fan]

Derek Jeter stepping down as Miami Marlins' CEO, shareholder

So is it okay to ask Bruce Sherman questions now?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Derek Jeter stepping down as Miami Marlins' CEO, shareholder

So is it okay to ask Bruce Sherman questions now?

Reading a bit between the lines it sounds like there are no plans to increase the payroll anytime soon and he had some assurances there would be more money available as they rebuilt the system and became more competitive.

[RainMaker]

So the big holdup is the owners demanding a 14 team playoff. I can't think of something that would destroy the sport more in my eyes.

[SirFozzie]

It LOOKS like we may actually have opening day on time.

I'm shocked. Absolutely shocked.

[sterlingice]

Ugh. Watching the reports of these negotiations is just stupid and awful.

First, they get the batteries in backwards, working on smaller things like draft pick compensation and playoff expansion. Are those big? Yeah, but in a negotiation like this where the CBT has always been the huge stumbling block, you start from there and maybe use some of those other things as sweeteners to bridge the gap. If you're the players, you go "maybe we accept a little less in draft pick compensation in exchange for an extra $5M added to the CBT" or if you're the owners, you're like "sure, we'll give an extra $5M on the CBT in exchange for extra playoff money from a couple extra teams". Instead, they have to use these things just to get started and now they're having to negotiate the hard stuff without much room to play.

For the first time in the entire negotiation, MLB actually moves some on substantial items last night. And today they've basically acted as if "yup, that's basically our final offer" (technically, that's being delivered now) rather than "ok, now we meet in the middle"-ish.

SI

[sterlingice]

Oh geez, MLB. Not even trying

MLB's best-and-final offer:

- No changes to CBT thresholds (220/220/220/224/230)
- A $5M increase on pre-arb bonus pool from $25M to $30M
- An increase of minimums from $675K to $700K, moving up $10K/year
— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) March 1, 2022

The MLBPA's previous offer:

- CBT thresholds at 238/244/250/256/263
- Pre-arb bonus pool at $85M with $5M annual increases
- Minimums at $725K going up $20K a year

— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) March 1, 2022

SI

[RainMaker]

Playoffs back to 12 teams it seems. Still really hate that. Baseball was like the last sport where it felt special to make the playoffs.

[stevew]

There’s not a ton of difference in those offers, especially when you’re holding the line on service time manipulation and super 2 eligibility. Plus you got bigger playoffs. The owners are willing to miss games over something like 5-7M a season/team at the very most?

[RainMaker]

Jon might know this, but are there clauses in TV contracts over this? Basically, my cable bill went up so that Comcast could add Marquee Network (the Cubs new TV network). But if there are no games on it, there is no need for the network to exist, or for me to pay $5/month for it.

So does Comcast have a clause in the contract where they don't pay the carriage fee if games aren't happening? Because between this and the pandemic game losses, I'm tired of paying for sports networks that don't play sports.

[sterlingice]

If this is "oh well, see you guys in May before we talk again" then MLB and MLBPA might as well approve that contract as those TV deals are going to get quite a bit smaller next time out.

SI

[henry296]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Jon might know this, but are there clauses in TV contracts over this? Basically, my cable bill went up so that Comcast could add Marquee Network (the Cubs new TV network). But if there are no games on it, there is no need for the network to exist, or for me to pay $5/month for it.

So does Comcast have a clause in the contract where they don't pay the carriage fee if games aren't happening? Because between this and the pandemic game losses, I'm tired of paying for sports networks that don't play sports.

I just got a notice from Verizon that I'm getting a credit because they got credits for not having as many games on the RSNs due to COVID, so perhaps. Of course, Comcast may just pocket the money.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

If this is "oh well, see you guys in May before we talk again" then MLB and MLBPA might as well approve that contract as those TV deals are going to get quite a bit smaller next time out.

SI

That’s the worst part. We’re going to get all kinds of posturing

[BYU 14]

First two series officially cancelled, fuck the owners

[albionmoonlight]

There are a LOT of options for sports eyeballs in 2022. You don't want to suddenly just . . . not be there.

MLB is playing with fire here, IMO.

[RainMaker]

This made me chuckle.

Going to rule when the 120 win Mets get slapped in the Draftkings Joker Card Round Presented by Roman by the 72-90 Cubs

— Richard Staff (@RichardStaff) March 1, 2022

[jbergey22]

It seems odd that the 12/14 team playoff would be that battle the players wont budge on. I am not even really sure why it matters to them. As a fan, I hate the idea, but I am not sure why the players actually care.

I figure the players really only care about money/health and not really so concerned about the history/legacy/tradition of the game.

[jbergey22]

These guys are so obnoxious. They can't keep a business operating because they can't agree on how to divide up billions of dollars.

With that said, no one pays to watch the owners, so the fans really need to side with the players and make it a owner vs players/fans battle. This might get through to the thick headed imbeciles.

[tarcone]

Rich people do not care what poor people think. Rich people want to exploit poor people. Poor Max Schrezer is losing 232k a day. Oh no, the owner gets to use this as a tax write off. And the rest of us get no baseball and higher prices. Go rich people.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

It seems odd that the 12/14 team playoff would be that battle the players wont budge on. I am not even really sure why it matters to them. As a fan, I hate the idea, but I am not sure why the players actually care.

I figure the players really only care about money/health and not really so concerned about the history/legacy/tradition of the game.

Because if you need fewer players that move the needle just to make the playoffs and winning in the playoffs is much more of a crapshoot, why bother paying for them? The more teams in the playoffs, the less each marginal win is worth. The players know this and the owners are pretending to not know this.

Here's the basic problem with expanded playoffs.

If the owners offered 100% of the revenue from the new playoff round(s) to the players, I still don't think it's actually a good deal for the players.

Making World Series championships more random is AWFUL for salaries.

— Dan Szymborski (@DSzymborski) January 31, 2021

SI

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

It seems odd that the 12/14 team playoff would be that battle the players wont budge on. I am not even really sure why it matters to them. As a fan, I hate the idea, but I am not sure why the players actually care.

I figure the players really only care about money/health and not really so concerned about the history/legacy/tradition of the game.

It's still about money. If half the teams make the playoffs, you don't have to spend as much. Being an 80-win team is more or less the same as a 95-win team. So why pay for those additional 15 wins?

[tarcone]

Push for expansion then. This seems like it is going to happen. Expand to 2 more teams and get more players paid.

[molson]

From an entertainment perspective, with 45 teams in the playoffs or whatever, a shorter season is much better anyway.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Push for expansion then. This seems like it is going to happen. Expand to 2 more teams and get more players paid.

Expansion is going to happen. The league will be at 32 teams within the decade. However, the league wants to maximize their leverage over cities that want baseball. So Tampa and Oakland have to be resolved first. Either they get new stadiums or move. Then, a couple of years later, expansion will magically appear. But they don't want to decrease their leverage by having 4 teams available at once. It will be 2 then 2.

SI

[henry296]

What would happen if MLB ended the lockout since the CBA expired. Would it revert back to the last CBA or would all of those rules about CBT, Compensation / draft cease to exist?

[henry296]

Originally Posted by henry296

What would happen if MLB ended the lockout since the CBA expired. Would it revert back to the last CBA or would all of those rules about CBT, Compensation / draft cease to exist?

I just saw the answer in an ESPN article. Essentially old CBA with no CBT which is why the owners won't do it.

[NobodyHere]

Does this lockout affect minor league baseball?

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Does this lockout affect minor league baseball?

Only players on MLB 40-man rosters are 'locked out,' so it does affect minor league baseball in that prospects that are closer to the majors and some well-established depth players that would typically be playing at AAA and some at AA will be unavailable until it is resolved. That is probably 12-15 players (given 26-man rosters and typically a handful of guys or more are on the DL at all times), per franchise, that will not be available and some of those younger guys will certainly miss out on development time as a result.

It is sort of unclear how the rosters will shake out as to whether AA players will just fill in at AAA (and high-A players up to AA) until they return or if teams will sign more marginal, experienced players to fill in, so as to keep players at appropriate levels for development. I'd guess we will see a mixture of both, depending on the different franchises' philosophies.

[PilotMan]

Well, I just bought a 6 game package to our local Independent Minor League team, the Florence Y'alls. We typically go to a couple games a year, and have for years, but this locks us in with a special package, and some extra goodies to look forward to. We'll enjoy some baseball one way or another.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Only players on MLB 40-man rosters are 'locked out,' so it does affect minor league baseball in that prospects that are closer to the majors and some well-established depth players that would typically be playing at AAA and some at AA will be unavailable until it is resolved. That is probably 12-15 players (given 26-man rosters and typically a handful of guys or more are on the DL at all times), per franchise, that will not be available and some of those younger guys will certainly miss out on development time as a result.

It is sort of unclear how the rosters will shake out as to whether AA players will just fill in at AAA (and high-A players up to AA) until they return or if teams will sign more marginal, experienced players to fill in, so as to keep players at appropriate levels for development. I'd guess we will see a mixture of both, depending on the different franchises' philosophies.

Well that's kind of good to hear at least. I don't really pay attention to baseball but I do like to go see a couple Toledo Mud Hen games each year.

[SirFozzie]

MLB lockout: Angels, D-Backs, Reds, Tigers owners voted against league's latest CBA proposal, per report - CBSSports.com

Per this article, four owners already voted to put the kibosh on the last pre-cancellation offer from MLB (not the players, the owners side). The article goes on to note that more owners would have voted no if they had budged from 220 million in the CBT.

Combined with the bit later in the story about how the owners were trying to nickle-and-dime even that, and it's just.. fuck them. (They apparently took the WRONG lesson from the minor league food scandal last year. They want the players FOOD STIPEND against the CBT. Because you know, the players dinner should be subject to competitive balance.)

This thing ain't getting solved easily, and probably not without the baseball equivalent of a guillotine for some owners.

[tarcone]

If there is no cow to get the milk from, what do you fight for?

[Ksyrup]

My MLB Ballpark app just updated. What did they do - remove all of the ballparks?