Rick Carlisle FIRED!!! - Page 2

cmp · 05-31-2003, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GrantDawg
If this was a computer game that did this to you, you'd be pissed.

Probably. I'm just gonna make until the season to make judgements on the move though. It could work out terrificly for Detroit, but it could backfire. So far Dumars has showed he knows what he's doing, I'm gonna trust him on this one.

cmp · 05-31-2003, 11:54 PM

Here's an article from the Detroit Free Press. Maybe people can better understand why he was fired now.

BY DREW SHARP
FREE PRESS COLUMNIST

The only thing more surreal than Saturday's impromptu press conference announcing the apparently amicable divorce between Rick Carlisle and the Pistons was the 48 hours leading up to it.

``Surreal isn't the word for it,'' said Pistons team president Joe Dumars. ``It goes beyond unbelievable when trying to describe everything that' s happened to get us to this point.''

Larry Brown, the recent Philadelphia 76ers ex, is coming to Detroit. Carlisle may very well wind up in Cleveland. And a city coming off the euphoria of its first Eastern Conference finals appearance in 12 years tries to understand how a coach who won 100 games faster than any of his predecessors in this franchise's history could fall into disfavor with management so decisively.

``This was the best course for everyone involved,'' said Dumars. ``I can't really go into any specifics as to why this happened. It was just agreed that it was in everyone's best interests that we all move on and move forward.''

There were a myriad of irreconcilable differences that led up to this mutual separation, but the bottom line is that Carlisle alienated far too many people within the Pistons' organization with his frequent churlish behavior and obstinate coaching approach.

He ticked off the wrong people.

He treated certain factions of the organization with utter disrespect. He rejected overtures from practically everyone in the organization aimed at improving his communication skills, particularly in regard to younger players.

Dumars will understandably take the hit from the same critics who for the last month blasted the possibility that Carlisle's status could be in jeopardy as ridiculous and irresponsible. That's his job as the front man for this organization, but parting company with Carlisle was a decision endorsed by everyone within the Pistons' basketball brain trust from top to bottom.

Dumars had decided not to extend Carlisle's original three-year contract, creating a situation where Carlisle could be interpreted as a lame duck next season. He wasn't sure if Carlisle could ditch the stubbornness and surliness that got him into this predicament, but he initially thought that Carlisle had earned the chance to prove that he learned the error of his ways.

But Thursday, it was determined that Carlisle wouldn't get that chance. Too many bridges had been burned, too many sensibilities had been offended, too many concerns remained. The Pistons contacted Brown, who was just days removed from the Philadelphia job, through back channels, gauging his interest in the job, if any.

Dumars wouldn't have made a final decision on Carlisle unless he was certain that Brown was his guaranteed successor. According to league sources, Brown agreed to take the Pistons' job Friday afternoon at a salary that could surpass $5 million annually for five years.

Carlisle was notified of the team's decision Friday evening at his home in South Carolina. He later leaked word of his firing to ESPN.com's NBA reporter, Ric Bucher, who reported it early Saturday morning, sending the Pistons into a frenzy of premature denials.

The original plan called for only Dumars to address the media, but Carlisle asked to go out with Dumars, creating a bizarre scene in which the man who did the firing looked more uncomfortable than the man fired.

This was a Carlisle that was rarely seen -- engaging, humorous and self-effacing. Had he better communicated that side of himself to his employers and players, he might not have found himself in this position. Perhaps he was too insecure as a first-time head coach to let people see that side of him, but it was refreshing, although unfortunately for him, it came too late to save him.

But it may help him land his next job.

Carlisle was auditioning for his next employer.

He knew the press conference would be covered live nationally on ESPN and the sight of he and Dumars sitting side-by-side and showering each other with praise might ease fears of other general managers.

It will help Carlisle only if he has indeed learned his lesson.

It doesn't matter how many regular season games are won or division championship banners are raised, if you are branded as acting disrespectful to people in the organization and unwilling to change, you are going to create problems.

And, in this case, it created problems that Carlisle couldn't overcome.

TroyF · 06-01-2003, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ice4277
Ok, Troy, some fair points in this article, but for me, this is the kicker about the whole thing, from the same article:

"As for Brown succeeding Carlisle, well, there's no reason he shouldn't be more successful"

And there it is. Carlisle did a good job but they went after somebody who they feel could do a better job. Carlisle, as I stated earlier, never has seemed to me like the guy who could take them to the next level, and a lot of things in the Nets series kind of pointed that out to me. Carlisle did well to get the team the number of wins he did, but I think Brown will do a better job. You don't. Guess we'll have to wait and see what happens on the court.

I think you miss the point of the entire article. Of course Brown should be more successful. ANY coach should be more successful if you assume the team will improve from this year after another year of playoff experience.

I'll make a prediction right now. Detroit will not get as deep into the post season in the next two years. Brown will be gone before they get to the NBA finals.

As for the explanations, it's spin, period. The Pistons have their spin, the coach and his friends will have theirs. As there are two sides to the story, the real reason probably lies somewhere in the middle. I hope Brown stiffs Dumars and signs with the Rockets. It would serve the guy right after doing things this way.

It's REALLY hard to cheer for a team that does something like this. (that is, if you aren't living in the city and aren't already a bigtime fan)

Gold,

Comparing Dungy to Carlisle is a joke. As was said by the earlier poster, Dungy had 7 years in Tampa. Dungy also clearly had the talent to win the Super Bowl. I don't think anyone truly believes Detroit's talent level is comparable to any of the top 7-9 teams in basketball. They've overachieved the past couple of years. A coaching change won't make them overacheive 10 games more. . . it'll more likely drop them to reality and make them take a step back.

We'll see who's right. Joe D's did a good job building the team. . . He'll have to live with the ramifications of this decision for a long time. He'd better hope the memories are good.

TroyF

cmp · 06-01-2003, 12:32 AM

We'll see. People have been critizing the Pistons for the past two years saying we dont have enough talent. Billups, Rip, Wallace, Okur, Prince, Darko, Corliss, Cliffy and the others will hopefully continue to prove the critics wrong.

vex · 06-01-2003, 02:02 AM

What coach proved the critics wrong though?

cmp · 06-01-2003, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vexroid
What coach proved the critics wrong though?

Yea, Carlisle was the coach. So what? The players on the Pistons team did not want Carlisle as there coach any longer. They were sick of his coaching tactics and his philosophy. His rotations were horrible, he was very inconsistent in who he would play. Some players didn't know whether or not they would play one night even though the night before they came off the bench and scored 10 points.

Most of you do not follow Pistons basketball very closely. You don't know the whole story. A Detroit reporter interviewed a Pistons player who's name was not announcer who said that he was relieved that Carlisle was gone. It sure seems like the players didn't want him anymore. What good is having a coach that the players don't respect and don't want to play for?

Also, he alienated many people in the front office. Rick and the Front Office did not get along at all. How can you keep a guy who can't get along with the people making all the decisions in the franchise?

vex · 06-01-2003, 09:14 AM

Did he win? It doesn't really matter who you play, as long as you win.

cmp · 06-01-2003, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vexroid
Did he win? It doesn't really matter who you play, as long as you win.

If the players are sick of him and want someone new that it does matter. They basically quit on him in the Orlando series. It took Ben Wallace to come out in the media and motivate his teammates. They did not want to play for him any longer.

DeToxRox · 06-01-2003, 10:23 AM

Alright, take this for what its worth, a rumor.

My dads friend works closely with the Detroit Pistons organization. He was talking to a source in the front office after he heard Rick was fired, and the source said this.

"If Rick Carlisle was brought back, Ben Wallace was going to demand a trade."

Now, I cannot varify this, so yeah, but I am trying to shead some light on the whole thing.

And since the owner is the one who had him fired, it only makes sense, as he would want to keep our marquee player happy.

If this is the case, I say, bye bye Ricky, go alienate Lebron now.

cmp · 06-01-2003, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle
Alright, take this for what its worth, a rumor.

My dads friend works closely with the Detroit Pistons organization. He was talking to a source in the front office after he heard Rick was fired, and the source said this.

"If Rick Carlisle was brought back, Ben Wallace was going to demand a trade."

Now, I cannot varify this, so yeah, but I am trying to shead some light on the whole thing.

And since the owner is the one who had him fired, it only makes sense, as he would want to keep our marquee player happy.

If this is the case, I say, bye bye Ricky, go alienate Lebron now.

This wouldn't surprise me at all. I've heard things like Wallace hasn't talked to Carlisle in 3 months. That seems a little unrealistic but I believe it shows the kind of division the players had formed from Carlisle.

Joe Dumars didn't just all of a sudden decide to fire Carlisle. It was a thing that had been going on for a while. Don't blast Joe and this "classless" organization when you don't know the whole story.

DeToxRox · 06-01-2003, 11:39 AM

one more thing..

..Calling Dumars classless is just moronic. I mean, he does have the NBA Humanatarian Award named after him.

cmp · 06-01-2003, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle
one more thing..

..Calling Dumars classless is just moronic. I mean, he does have the NBA Humanatarian Award named after him.

And if Dumars is such a classless person like people have said and firing Carlisle was one of the worst things he could have done then why would Carlisle hold a news conference with him? If Dumars was so classless I don't believe Carlisle would have held a press conference with him.

ISiddiqui · 06-01-2003, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Calling Dumars classless is just moronic. I mean, he does have the NBA Humanatarian Award named after him.

It doesn't mean this move is not classless. A young coach with such an overachieving record and you dump him for some other guy? Even if he was an ass, you don't do that! You give him a few years to see if he can get over the hump, and if he can't THEN you fire him. That's what they did with Dungy in Tampa. That's what they did with Showwalter with the Yankees. But maybe he CAN get the team to the top (maybe he's a young Phil Jackson), and you just canned him.

cmp · 06-01-2003, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ISiddiqui
It doesn't mean this move is not classless. A young coach with such an overachieving record and you dump him for some other guy? Even if he was an ass, you don't do that! You give him a few years to see if he can get over the hump, and if he can't THEN you fire him. That's what they did with Dungy in Tampa. That's what they did with Showwalter with the Yankees. But maybe he CAN get the team to the top (maybe he's a young Phil Jackson), and you just canned him.

If we wait around to see if he can get over the hump we might put ourselves back a few years when we eventually fire him anyway. And plus, I'd much rather keep Ben Wallace on the team then keep a coach.

cmp · 06-01-2003, 01:48 PM

The players seem to agree with this move. It seems like Detroit did the right thing.

Chucky Atkins, who wasn't particularly pleased with his significantly reduced role this season, said Carlisle's firing after so much success took a lot of courage on management's part.

"This is all about us getting to a higher level," Atkins said. "It takes a lot of guts to fire a man who has won as many games as Rick did here in only a couple years. But we're trying to get to the NBA Finals. We can't get there playing the way we were under Rick."

ISiddiqui · 06-01-2003, 02:15 PM

*sigh*

I see you've already bought into the so-called 'reason' that the Pistons will never win under Carlisle (Hey, but if it makes you feel better about the classless move). A 2nd year coach, back to back 50 win seasons, brought his team, which isn't as talented as the other top teams in the East, to the Eastern Conference Finals. What is to say that Brown is a better coach than Carlisle? Right now, if I was a GM for a team, I'd probably take Carlisle over Brown.

I think the Pistons did the wrong thing, entirely. And definetly showed themselves to lack class.

Furthermore, can you possibly explain me the reason they hired a coach to get them to win the Finals who hasn't won it before, with teams more talented than the one he is getting now (the Sixers for example)?

cmp · 06-01-2003, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ISiddiqui

Furthermore, can you possibly explain me the reason they hired a coach to get them to win the Finals who hasn't won it before, with teams more talented than the one he is getting now (the Sixers for example)?

Great argument. He hasn't won the Finals before. Ok then, let's just go out and get us a coach who has won the Finals before. Let's see, who is there. Only Phil Jackson, Pat Riley and Greg Popovich come to mind right now. Only 3 coaches in the NBA have won a title. And we're not gonna get anyone of those three.

vtbub · 06-01-2003, 02:42 PM

And if the players fire their coaches, they will never win a title.

JeeberD · 06-01-2003, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gold101
Great argument. He hasn't won the Finals before. Ok then, let's just go out and get us a coach who has won the Finals before. Let's see, who is there. Only Phil Jackson, Pat Riley and Greg Popovich come to mind right now. Only 3 coaches in the NBA have won a title. And we're not gonna get anyone of those three.

Rudy T!!!!

And he's won twice as many as Pop...

vex · 06-01-2003, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gold101
The players seem to agree with this move. It seems like Detroit did the right thing.

Chucky Atkins, who wasn't particularly pleased with his significantly reduced role this season, said Carlisle's firing after so much success took a lot of courage on management's part.

"This is all about us getting to a higher level," Atkins said. "It takes a lot of guts to fire a man who has won as many games as Rick did here in only a couple years. But we're trying to get to the NBA Finals. We can't get there playing the way we were under Rick."

How many of these players have played in the Finals, huh? How would they know what it takes? They don't.

DeToxRox · 06-01-2003, 03:19 PM

And I'd rather have a team to play 100% then a coach who has a team of guys going half assed.

Glass is half empty, glass is half full.

vtbub · 06-01-2003, 03:22 PM

That's the thing, they got this coach fired. If Joe Blow coaches in a way they don't like, they'll get him fired to.

Until Detroit learns it's all about we instead of all about me, their tee times will be reserved in May.

Doesn't Carlisle have two rings from his Celtic days?

vex · 06-01-2003, 03:23 PM

What are you going to say if Brown clashes with Wallace the same as he did Iverson?

cmp · 06-01-2003, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vtbub

Doesn't Carlisle have two rings from his Celtic days?

Did he coach the Celtics to those titles? No.

vex · 06-01-2003, 03:27 PM

He was there, though.

cmp · 06-01-2003, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vexroid
He was there, though.

So that makes him such a better coach?

vtbub · 06-01-2003, 03:30 PM

Start reading the other post insteads of following blindly what you want to read.

His jackass players made a jackass comment, "He don't have blah blah blah..."

He's got the rings and THEY DON'T, that's why he's the coach and New Jersey is in the finals.

cmp · 06-01-2003, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vtbub
Start reading the other post insteads of following blindly what you want to read.

His jackass players made a jackass comment, "He don't have blah blah blah..."

He's got the rings and THEY DON'T, that's why he's the coach and New Jersey is in the finals.

Wow, he won a ring while he sat the bench and watched as Larry Bird led the Celtics to the title. That doesn't mean shit. And I'll agree with his own players about the situation much more then I'll agree with what you say about the situation.

Exactly how many Detroit games did you watch this year? You don't understand that this team is actually better then people think. If Carlisle would have played Prince and Okur more and Curry and Robinson less Detroit would have been better. Carlisle is a good coach, not great. He'll never be better than a good coach. I hope he goes to Portland ,we'll see how quickly the players turn on him.

Detroit will be a much better team without Carlisle. Billups will be better, Rip will be better, Okur will be much better, Ben will be better, Prince will be better, Darko's gonna be good and the bench will be a lot better because they'll actually know if there gonna play from night to night.

ISiddiqui · 06-01-2003, 09:06 PM

Quote:

He hasn't won the Finals before. Ok then, let's just go out and get us a coach who has won the Finals before.

If you can't get a coach who hasn't won in the finals before, then what is the point of getting a coach to get to the 'next level', ie a championship? It makes little sense.

Carlisle was a great coach and was shoved out the door because something shinyer was in the window. That new coach, Brown, might NOT be as good under the hood and he hasn't proven that he really is. You talk about Dungy, that's what Brown is! A coach that is good at getting teams to a high level, but he can't get the team above the hump... yet that is what he is being asked to do at Detroit!

It was still a classless move, however... no matter what happens.

cmp · 06-01-2003, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ISiddiqui

It was still a classless move, however... no matter what happens.

No, this wasn't a classless move. Classless was the way Rick Carlisle treated his players, Pistons management, Pistons staff members and others in the organization. He brought this upon himself.

ISiddiqui · 06-01-2003, 09:26 PM

Quote:

No, this wasn't a classless move.

Yes this was a classless move. A coach you hired led your team to a SURPRISING 50 win season, not once, but twice! And even to the Eastern Conference Finals and you dump him for some other guy? I don't care how bad he was to others in the organization, you don't dump a coach like that.

CLASSLESS! No matter how you spin it.

Schmidty · 06-01-2003, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gold101
No, this wasn't a classless move. Classless was the way Rick Carlisle treated his players, Pistons management, Pistons staff members and others in the organization. He brought this upon himself.

Bingo.

I follow the Pistons religiously, and I've been hearing horror stories about him since the beginning of his time in Detroit. People outside of the situation are poorly informed and are going to draw the conclusion that the move was classless. Nothing could be further from the truth. Joe Dumars is the embodiment of class, and would have never made this move lightly or without purpose. There are many things that were going on behind the scenes that contributed to the firing.

Joe Dumars did what he thought was in the best interest of the organization and I trust him.

You guys can say what you want. It doesn't matter to me because I know the truth.

cmp · 06-01-2003, 09:39 PM

Here is part of an article telling of some of the things Carlisle has done. Tell me how a guy like this is good for an organization?

But that doesn't stop the stories. Stories that Carlisle, last year, shoved a senior Pistons executive as he tried to high-five the players. Tales about Carlisle yelling at secretaries, or snapping at the medical staff, or ripping on assorted personnel, young and old, in front of other people. Maybe he didn't do all these things. Maybe he did but didn't realize how he came across. Doesn't matter. In Bill Davidson's world there is loyalty and there is proper respect, and you don't keep your job without them.

Remember, Davidson joined his uncle's glass company in the 1950s and he built it into an enterprise worth nearly $4 billion. You don't do that by brooking dissent. Nobody - nobody - disrespects Davidson's staff or loyal employees.

Carlisle, a smart and talented coach, apparently felt that being smart and talented would be enough. Players disagreed. Some never cared for him, since he could stand in an elevator with them and not even strike up a conversation.

"That was always a difficult thing," admitted guard Chucky Atkins, "he didn't speak to a lot of people. When you treat people bad, it comes back to haunt you. If you can't talk to your coach, who can you talk to?"

oykib · 06-01-2003, 10:05 PM

Well... if the stories are true about him being a dick, then I have to take back what I said. Perhaps it was the best thing to do. But it's still a black mark on the organization unless Brown takes them to the finals in the next few years.

FF · 06-02-2003, 03:31 AM

this wasnt joe d's move.

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/5992778.htm

ive heard the stories about how carlisle was with people around the organization, but the man brought WINS.

am i the only one in michigan that hates larry brown and dislikes this move?

cmp · 06-02-2003, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FF

ive heard the stories about how carlisle was with people around the organization, but the man brought WINS.

am i the only one in michigan that hates larry brown and dislikes this move?

So are you condoning his actions just because he brought us some wins? Is that what we're coming to in America. That you can be an ass to anyone you want, you can disrepect your fellow employees and humiliate them but as long as you do a good job everyone's all right?

Larry Brown · 06-02-2003, 05:23 PM

I am truly honored to be the next head coach of the Detroit Pistons. I believe Rick did a fine job. He may have made mistakes in his tenture there, only becuase he is a intense individual. However, I plan to bring this team to the next level, and I plan on us having a terrific year!

P.S. Im sure Rick will make a great head coach somewhere, and you should all be proud of what Rick did to this team.

ISiddiqui · 06-02-2003, 05:45 PM

Quote:

So are you condoning his actions just because he brought us some wins? Is that what we're coming to in America. That you can be an ass to anyone you want, you can disrepect your fellow employees and humiliate them but as long as you do a good job everyone's all right?

Um... YEAH! His job is to WIN GAMES! If you do your job no one should care about 'disrespecting fellow employees'.

cmp · 06-02-2003, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ISiddiqui
Um... YEAH! His job is to WIN GAMES! If you do your job no one should care about 'disrespecting fellow employees'.

Well then guess some people like those in the Pistons organization have much more class then you and Carlisle. Detroit showed class by getting rid of Carlisle. It takes an organization with a great deal of class to get rid of a coach like Carlisle because of the things he did. Detroit showed they are a very classy organization by doing this, they won't allow people to disrespect whoever they want and get away with it.

ISiddiqui · 06-02-2003, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Well then guess some people like those in the Pistons organization have much more class then you and Carlisle. Detroit showed class by getting rid of Carlisle. It takes an organization with a great deal of class to get rid of a coach like Carlisle because of the things he did. Detroit showed they are a very classy organization by doing this, they won't allow people to disrespect whoever they want and get away with it.

Class is keeping a guy for doing what he was supposed to under his contract. It isn't firing a guy for doing what he was hired to do, simply because you found someone else. Now, if Carlisle's contract was up, then fine, but THEY FIRED HIM FOR DOING EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS SUPPOSED TO DO! That's totally 100% classless.

Larry Brown · 06-02-2003, 06:08 PM

Not agreeing with one another is part of life. I know this, believe me!!! But Rick is a good person, he got let go!!! I am now the coach, I plan to bring this team to greatness, end of story. There really is no need to keep fighting about why Rick was let go. No one here knows the real reason. Rick is a classy individual, as is the Detroit Pistons oraganization. It simply was two people wanting to go in different directions.

Joe also is taking a lot of heat from this "move" he made, the fact is however, Joe did not make this move, Bill was the person who thought best that Rick and the organization split ways. And I thank him for giving me the opportunity.

vtbub · 06-02-2003, 06:12 PM

Nice to meet you Mr. Brown.

Just between you and me, was Iverson an asshat?

cmp · 06-02-2003, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ISiddiqui
Class is keeping a guy for doing what he was supposed to under his contract. It isn't firing a guy for doing what he was hired to do, simply because you found someone else. Now, if Carlisle's contract was up, then fine, but THEY FIRED HIM FOR DOING EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS SUPPOSED TO DO! That's totally 100% classless.

Carlisle has had this coming for a while. His players didn't respect him and when this happens things can't be good. Carlisle wasn't just fired because Larry Brown became available. There had been talk about this for a while. Just a few weeks ago during the Orlando series it was talked about that he could be on his way out. His assistants knew it also, they told him that if he didn't change he would be out. Winning 100 games in two seasons isn't something terribly special. Doug Collins won more his first two years in Detroit, does that make him a great coach?

Larry Brown · 06-02-2003, 06:18 PM

Well vtub, if I knew what an asshat was i could tell you. Iverson is a great player, with a great heart, sometimes though, we didn't agree, and he made some questionable decisions.

vtbub · 06-02-2003, 06:22 PM

Dude, whoever you are, you're good.

ISiddiqui · 06-02-2003, 06:35 PM

Quote:

His players didn't respect him and when this happens things can't be good. Carlisle wasn't just fired because Larry Brown became available.

Since the owner fired him what do the players have to do with anything? There have been plenty of successful managers who's players didn't 'respect' him as a person (I bet they did respect him as a coach). That's because the team stuck by the guy.

And are you really telling me that they'd fire this guy only to replace him with someone of a lesser coaching quality? Are you nuts?! If Brown wasn't available, I 100% guarentee Carlisle would still be coaching the Pistons. Also, if the Pistons won the Championship, Carlisle would still be there (to say otherwise is silly), which indicates to me that it wasn't just about the 'disrespect'.

Quote:

There had been talk about this for a while. Just a few weeks ago during the Orlando series it was talked about that he could be on his way out. His assistants knew it also, they told him that if he didn't change he would be out.

If he lost in the first round after being up 3-1 when he had the #1 team, almost any coach would be fired. That doesn't mean jack.

Quote:

Winning 100 games in two seasons isn't something terribly special.

With an Eastern Conference team that really isn't really in the top 3 in talent in that conference? By a first time coach? It's pretty damned special. Any other coach in the league that won 100 games in his first two seasons would not be fired after the 2nd.

cmp · 06-02-2003, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ISiddiqui

If he lost in the first round after being up 3-1 when he had the #1 team, almost any coach would be fired. That doesn't mean jack.

What did Carlisle do to turn around that series? Nothing. The only reason Tayshaun Prince even saw the floor was because Michael Curry picked up 3 quick fouls. If Tayshaun doesn't go in and T-Mac continues his terrific pace Detroit loses in at least 6 games. Carlisle is the one who almost lost that series for Detroit, he did nothing to help them win it.

Larry Brown · 06-02-2003, 07:14 PM

I can hardly sit here and watch you guys talk only negatively about Rick. Rick is a class guy that turned around a struggling team. I'm sure Rick wasn't fired because he failed to get to the finals, or he lost the respect of my players, Im sure every player on this team respected him as a coach. I really dont know how many times I have state that he was let go because of Bill wanting this team to go in a different direction, maybe it was personality maybe something esle. But I assure you, it wasnt from a lack of respect or lack of class.He did a hell of a job,so please, stop this negative talk about Rick. Rick deserves better. He will make a great coach where ever he lands, and will probably turn that team around to.

Rick Carlisle · 06-02-2003, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Larry Brown
I can hardly sit here and watch you guys talk only negatively about Rick. Rick is a class guy that turned around a struggling team. I'm sure Rick wasn't fired because he failed to get to the finals, or he lost the respect of my players, Im sure every player on this team respected him as a coach. I really dont know how many times I have state that he was let go because of Bill wanting this team to go in a different direction, maybe it was personality maybe something esle. But I assure you, it wasnt from a lack of respect or lack of class.He did a hell of a job,so please, stop this negative talk about Rick. Rick deserves better. He will make a great coach where ever he lands, and will probably turn that team around to.

Yea, listen to the man. I do deserve better. Larry's old so he has to know what he's talking about.

Larry Brown · 06-02-2003, 07:22 PM

Young at heart!

05-31-2003, 11:54 PM	#52
cmp Pro Rookie Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Grand Rapids, MI	Here's an article from the Detroit Free Press. Maybe people can better understand why he was fired now. BY DREW SHARP FREE PRESS COLUMNIST The only thing more surreal than Saturday's impromptu press conference announcing the apparently amicable divorce between Rick Carlisle and the Pistons was the 48 hours leading up to it. ``Surreal isn't the word for it,'' said Pistons team president Joe Dumars. ``It goes beyond unbelievable when trying to describe everything that' s happened to get us to this point.'' Larry Brown, the recent Philadelphia 76ers ex, is coming to Detroit. Carlisle may very well wind up in Cleveland. And a city coming off the euphoria of its first Eastern Conference finals appearance in 12 years tries to understand how a coach who won 100 games faster than any of his predecessors in this franchise's history could fall into disfavor with management so decisively. ``This was the best course for everyone involved,'' said Dumars. ``I can't really go into any specifics as to why this happened. It was just agreed that it was in everyone's best interests that we all move on and move forward.'' There were a myriad of irreconcilable differences that led up to this mutual separation, but the bottom line is that Carlisle alienated far too many people within the Pistons' organization with his frequent churlish behavior and obstinate coaching approach. He ticked off the wrong people. He treated certain factions of the organization with utter disrespect. He rejected overtures from practically everyone in the organization aimed at improving his communication skills, particularly in regard to younger players. Dumars will understandably take the hit from the same critics who for the last month blasted the possibility that Carlisle's status could be in jeopardy as ridiculous and irresponsible. That's his job as the front man for this organization, but parting company with Carlisle was a decision endorsed by everyone within the Pistons' basketball brain trust from top to bottom. Dumars had decided not to extend Carlisle's original three-year contract, creating a situation where Carlisle could be interpreted as a lame duck next season. He wasn't sure if Carlisle could ditch the stubbornness and surliness that got him into this predicament, but he initially thought that Carlisle had earned the chance to prove that he learned the error of his ways. But Thursday, it was determined that Carlisle wouldn't get that chance. Too many bridges had been burned, too many sensibilities had been offended, too many concerns remained. The Pistons contacted Brown, who was just days removed from the Philadelphia job, through back channels, gauging his interest in the job, if any. Dumars wouldn't have made a final decision on Carlisle unless he was certain that Brown was his guaranteed successor. According to league sources, Brown agreed to take the Pistons' job Friday afternoon at a salary that could surpass $5 million annually for five years. Carlisle was notified of the team's decision Friday evening at his home in South Carolina. He later leaked word of his firing to ESPN.com's NBA reporter, Ric Bucher, who reported it early Saturday morning, sending the Pistons into a frenzy of premature denials. The original plan called for only Dumars to address the media, but Carlisle asked to go out with Dumars, creating a bizarre scene in which the man who did the firing looked more uncomfortable than the man fired. This was a Carlisle that was rarely seen -- engaging, humorous and self-effacing. Had he better communicated that side of himself to his employers and players, he might not have found himself in this position. Perhaps he was too insecure as a first-time head coach to let people see that side of him, but it was refreshing, although unfortunately for him, it came too late to save him. But it may help him land his next job. Carlisle was auditioning for his next employer. He knew the press conference would be covered live nationally on ESPN and the sight of he and Dumars sitting side-by-side and showering each other with praise might ease fears of other general managers. It will help Carlisle only if he has indeed learned his lesson. It doesn't matter how many regular season games are won or division championship banners are raised, if you are branded as acting disrespectful to people in the organization and unwilling to change, you are going to create problems. And, in this case, it created problems that Carlisle couldn't overcome. Last edited by cmp : 05-31-2003 at 11:55 PM.

06-01-2003, 09:14 AM	#57
vex Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Tulsa	Did he win? It doesn't really matter who you play, as long as you win. Last edited by vex : 06-01-2003 at 09:15 AM.

06-01-2003, 02:15 PM	#66
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	sigh I see you've already bought into the so-called 'reason' that the Pistons will never win under Carlisle (Hey, but if it makes you feel better about the classless move). A 2nd year coach, back to back 50 win seasons, brought his team, which isn't as talented as the other top teams in the East, to the Eastern Conference Finals. What is to say that Brown is a better coach than Carlisle? Right now, if I was a GM for a team, I'd probably take Carlisle over Brown. I think the Pistons did the wrong thing, entirely. And definetly showed themselves to lack class. Furthermore, can you possibly explain me the reason they hired a coach to get them to win the Finals who hasn't won it before, with teams more talented than the one he is getting now (the Sixers for example)? __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams Last edited by ISiddiqui : 06-01-2003 at 02:20 PM.

06-01-2003, 02:42 PM	#68
vtbub College Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Burlington, VT USA	And if the players fire their coaches, they will never win a title. __________________

06-01-2003, 03:22 PM	#72
vtbub College Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Burlington, VT USA	That's the thing, they got this coach fired. If Joe Blow coaches in a way they don't like, they'll get him fired to. Until Detroit learns it's all about we instead of all about me, their tee times will be reserved in May. Doesn't Carlisle have two rings from his Celtic days? __________________

06-01-2003, 12:32 AM	#54
cmp Pro Rookie Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Grand Rapids, MI	We'll see. People have been critizing the Pistons for the past two years saying we dont have enough talent. Billups, Rip, Wallace, Okur, Prince, Darko, Corliss, Cliffy and the others will hopefully continue to prove the critics wrong.

06-01-2003, 02:02 AM	#55
vex Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Tulsa	What coach proved the critics wrong though?

06-01-2003, 10:23 AM	#59
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Alright, take this for what its worth, a rumor. My dads friend works closely with the Detroit Pistons organization. He was talking to a source in the front office after he heard Rick was fired, and the source said this. "If Rick Carlisle was brought back, Ben Wallace was going to demand a trade." Now, I cannot varify this, so yeah, but I am trying to shead some light on the whole thing. And since the owner is the one who had him fired, it only makes sense, as he would want to keep our marquee player happy. If this is the case, I say, bye bye Ricky, go alienate Lebron now.

06-01-2003, 11:39 AM	#61
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	one more thing.. ..Calling Dumars classless is just moronic. I mean, he does have the NBA Humanatarian Award named after him.

06-01-2003, 01:48 PM	#65
cmp Pro Rookie Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Grand Rapids, MI	The players seem to agree with this move. It seems like Detroit did the right thing. Chucky Atkins, who wasn't particularly pleased with his significantly reduced role this season, said Carlisle's firing after so much success took a lot of courage on management's part. "This is all about us getting to a higher level," Atkins said. "It takes a lot of guts to fire a man who has won as many games as Rick did here in only a couple years. But we're trying to get to the NBA Finals. We can't get there playing the way we were under Rick."

06-01-2003, 03:19 PM	#71
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	And I'd rather have a team to play 100% then a coach who has a team of guys going half assed. Glass is half empty, glass is half full.

06-01-2003, 03:23 PM	#73
vex Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Tulsa	What are you going to say if Brown clashes with Wallace the same as he did Iverson?

06-01-2003, 03:27 PM	#75
vex Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Tulsa	He was there, though.

06-01-2003, 03:30 PM	#77
vtbub College Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Burlington, VT USA	Start reading the other post insteads of following blindly what you want to read. His jackass players made a jackass comment, "He don't have blah blah blah..." He's got the rings and THEY DON'T, that's why he's the coach and New Jersey is in the finals. __________________

06-01-2003, 09:39 PM	#83
cmp Pro Rookie Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Grand Rapids, MI	Here is part of an article telling of some of the things Carlisle has done. Tell me how a guy like this is good for an organization? But that doesn't stop the stories. Stories that Carlisle, last year, shoved a senior Pistons executive as he tried to high-five the players. Tales about Carlisle yelling at secretaries, or snapping at the medical staff, or ripping on assorted personnel, young and old, in front of other people. Maybe he didn't do all these things. Maybe he did but didn't realize how he came across. Doesn't matter. In Bill Davidson's world there is loyalty and there is proper respect, and you don't keep your job without them. Remember, Davidson joined his uncle's glass company in the 1950s and he built it into an enterprise worth nearly $4 billion. You don't do that by brooking dissent. Nobody - nobody - disrespects Davidson's staff or loyal employees. Carlisle, a smart and talented coach, apparently felt that being smart and talented would be enough. Players disagreed. Some never cared for him, since he could stand in an elevator with them and not even strike up a conversation. "That was always a difficult thing," admitted guard Chucky Atkins, "he didn't speak to a lot of people. When you treat people bad, it comes back to haunt you. If you can't talk to your coach, who can you talk to?"

06-01-2003, 10:05 PM	#84
oykib College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Well... if the stories are true about him being a dick, then I have to take back what I said. Perhaps it was the best thing to do. But it's still a black mark on the organization unless Brown takes them to the finals in the next few years.

06-02-2003, 03:31 AM	#85
FF Mascot Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Michigan, USA	this wasnt joe d's move. http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/5992778.htm ive heard the stories about how carlisle was with people around the organization, but the man brought WINS. am i the only one in michigan that hates larry brown and dislikes this move? __________________ i've somehow gotten a computer

06-02-2003, 05:23 PM	#87
Larry Brown In The Penalty Box Join Date: Jun 2003	I am truly honored to be the next head coach of the Detroit Pistons. I believe Rick did a fine job. He may have made mistakes in his tenture there, only becuase he is a intense individual. However, I plan to bring this team to the next level, and I plan on us having a terrific year! P.S. Im sure Rick will make a great head coach somewhere, and you should all be proud of what Rick did to this team.

06-02-2003, 06:08 PM	#91
Larry Brown In The Penalty Box Join Date: Jun 2003	Not agreeing with one another is part of life. I know this, believe me!!! But Rick is a good person, he got let go!!! I am now the coach, I plan to bring this team to greatness, end of story. There really is no need to keep fighting about why Rick was let go. No one here knows the real reason. Rick is a classy individual, as is the Detroit Pistons oraganization. It simply was two people wanting to go in different directions. Joe also is taking a lot of heat from this "move" he made, the fact is however, Joe did not make this move, Bill was the person who thought best that Rick and the organization split ways. And I thank him for giving me the opportunity.

06-02-2003, 06:12 PM	#92
vtbub College Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Burlington, VT USA	Nice to meet you Mr. Brown. Just between you and me, was Iverson an asshat? __________________

06-02-2003, 06:18 PM	#94
Larry Brown In The Penalty Box Join Date: Jun 2003	Well vtub, if I knew what an asshat was i could tell you. Iverson is a great player, with a great heart, sometimes though, we didn't agree, and he made some questionable decisions.

06-02-2003, 06:22 PM	#95
vtbub College Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Burlington, VT USA	Dude, whoever you are, you're good. __________________

06-02-2003, 07:14 PM	#98
Larry Brown In The Penalty Box Join Date: Jun 2003	I can hardly sit here and watch you guys talk only negatively about Rick. Rick is a class guy that turned around a struggling team. I'm sure Rick wasn't fired because he failed to get to the finals, or he lost the respect of my players, Im sure every player on this team respected him as a coach. I really dont know how many times I have state that he was let go because of Bill wanting this team to go in a different direction, maybe it was personality maybe something esle. But I assure you, it wasnt from a lack of respect or lack of class.He did a hell of a job,so please, stop this negative talk about Rick. Rick deserves better. He will make a great coach where ever he lands, and will probably turn that team around to.

06-02-2003, 07:22 PM	#100
Larry Brown In The Penalty Box Join Date: Jun 2003	Young at heart!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)