Alright Boyz, 'ere we go... WAAAAAAGGGGHHH!!! (The Blood Bowl Impressions Thread)

[Icy]

How long does it take to play a multiplayer game?

[thesloppy]

damn rats just scored on me in one turn and like three total moves. Unlickily, I kicked off out of bounds, giving it to their thrower at midfield. They had one runner with a boosted movement of 11 (ouch), so after a single block from a linemen at the line of scrimmage, the thrower ran up and handed off to the pumped-up runner, who dodged one guy and took it right in from the line of scrimmage, for an easy score in like 20 seconds.

[Fidatelo]

I'm confused... people are mentioning 'turn-based Blitz mode'. I thought Blitz was real time? If it's turn-based, what's the difference between it and Classic?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I'm confused... people are mentioning 'turn-based Blitz mode'. I thought Blitz was real time? If it's turn-based, what's the difference between it and Classic?

From the manual:

- The "Classic" mode is the direct
adaptation of the board game.

- The "Blitz" mode enables you to
discover Blood Bowl through a series
of new options which somewhat differ
from the core rules of the board game
Blood Bowl. Most notable among these
new options is the Real Time mode,
which enables you to play against an
opponent by playing ‘live’ at the same
time. The pre-match sequences
feature new opportunities in the Blitz
mode, with expanded inducements
and training sessions to further help
your team before a match even
begins. The Blitz mode will also
give you access to other options:
you may be able to modify the
duration of a turn or a half, to
play new competitions, to gain access
to different levels of equipment for your
players, etc.

When you select blitz mode you can choose real time or turn based.

[chinaski]

So very tempted to plunk down the cash for this.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Atocep

From the manual:



When you select blitz mode you can choose real time or turn based.

Jeez, I just assumed that meant it was all real time. So basically Blitz just gives you a bunch of options, rather than being forced to play with the basic rules? That's cool.

Oh, and I just got my first victory! I took an Orc team and ravaged some poor Lizardmen 2-0. I think it might be time for me to look into starting a campaign (or whatever, I still don't fully understand the different 'franchise modes', for lack of a better term).

[Calis]

I think Blitz mode adds a little more to the campaign also. I think it adds actual player contracts and the equivalent of aging.

I started my first campaign last night and picked Orcs. I think this was a pretty solid choice for a beginner. They seem to be incredibly tough, but they still have some mobility and I even a bit of a passing game.

First game was against a human team and I really controlled the field. The Black Orcs I think it is with 4 strength were really pushing their lineman around. I got greedy when I had a clear touchdown towards the end of the first half and kept my guy right outside the endzone while I battered the human team. I misjudged though and one of the humans got up and tackled him, and I watched the half end with the ball sitting in the endzone. Lesson learned there.

2nd game was against Dwarves. Talk about a grind. This was a brutal and ugly game. No one ever made it off midfield for the entire first half and most of the 2nd. Eventually late in the 2nd half I was able to overload the right side of the field and managed a risky long pass that was caught and got the win. Did I mention how I love Orc Blitzers?

Loving this game. I leveled up my first two guys also. I'm still not sure what are the best skill paths to go with and how to manage that. Think I went with Block on my Black Orc because that seems like a great one for anyone, especially your trench guys. My Blitzer I went with Sure Hands, thinking he'll be the center of my offense for a while and I did have some troubles in the first two games with not picking up the ball.

Fantastic game.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I am buying this game July 1.

[Axxon]

I just wanted to give a shout out to Sir Fozzie for this thread. This game had flown under my radar and I'm supremely enjoying it. Thanks man.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I am buying this game July 1.

I can't wait that long.

Downloading.

[Glengoyne]

Oh the only downside I see now, is that there aren't any Chaos Dwarves. I love my Centaurs.

[KWhit]

Downloaded. 2-0 so far in campaign mode. This is fun stuff.

[Galaril]

I was looking forward to gettiong this and playing it single player but $50 for basically a indy game and a download only with limited DRM? No fucking way! I will wait three months until a ptch or two comes out and the price has dropped to $30.

[Pumpy Tudors]

YEAH YOU SHOW EM

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

YEAH YOU SHOW EM

Whatever asshat

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Atocep

FWIW, the strategy threads I've read on the blood bowl forums say that Wood Elves are a popular pick for beginners in multiplayer because they're really hard to defend against unless you have a good grasp of what's going on.

Please tell me this isn't true. A good WE team is a tough team to face, but you have to develop the team correctly or you will have major problems down the road.

I would say Orcs or Humans are good starting races.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Whatever asshat

I was talking to KWhit.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Atocep

That's as intended and follows the traditional rules. The MVP is entirely random and more of a joke and a way of handing out some free xp to a player than anything else.

In the board game at the end of a match you simply roll the dice to assign the MVP.

Yeah, having played Skaven, sometimes your MVP is the rat on the sideline that is busy fathering more rats for the next game.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I was talking to KWhit.

Oh shit sorry boss

[Calis]

Well to be fair this doesn't feel like an Indy game to me. It feels just as polished if not moreso than most major releases I play on the PC. I'm definitely going to get my $50 worth out of it for sure.

I can see being in doubt about the download. I'd have preferred the Steam version but not enough to warrant waiting until September. I feel pretty safe having it downloaded and burnt to DVD. I definitely don't see a price drop in a couple months, because I can't imagine they'd do that before the Steam release. There could be one for the holidays though.

I've put 6 games into an Orc campaign and I'm absolutely loving it. Is starting to shine even more now that a few of my guys are levelling up and I'm able to begin specializing a bit and see some players stand out.

I've had great success as far as my record. I'm 5-1 so far, but of those 5 wins 3 have been won on the last turn or in extra time so I'm by no means steamrolling people. The one loss was me being a little silly and trying for some fancy passing against a Human team and paying the price.

I wonder as I plot out my team more, are the big guys considered a must? Think for the Orcs it's a troll. I haven't bought one yet and I'm not in a big hurry to. The way my team stands now I think the downside to the Troll outweighs the benefits to me. Maybe I'm underestimating them, but I'm liking my setup as is now. I'm using 4 Black Orcs, 4 Blitzers, 2 Linemen, and a Thrower. I'll replace the thrower with a lineman on occasion depending on the situation. Seems to give me decent mobility and good power.

I feel like my guys aren't levelling up as quick as the computer teams though and I'm wondering if I'm falling behind. I've only had maybe 4 or 5 guys hit level 2, and I'm seeing a lot of the computer teams now that seem to have almost the entire team with 3+ skills.

Would love to try a multiplayer match against an FOFC'er. I'm still incredibly noobish so not sure I'd be a good match, but I'd love to learn a little more from the more experienced players and I'm sure I am picking up bad habits playing the CPU.

[Eaglesfan27]

I bought this last night and am having a blast with it. It's been a good week for game releases. I'll second Calis in that I think this game is more polished than many other major studio releases.

I'm also questioning the Wood Elves as a good beginner race. I'm a noob (played years ago, but don't remember jack) and I've tried a few One off games with the WE's. I love their agility and dodging but they are really very fragile. I'm thinking about starting a campaign with either humans or orcs which seem a bit more balanced to me.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Calis

I feel like my guys aren't levelling up as quick as the computer teams though and I'm wondering if I'm falling behind. I've only had maybe 4 or 5 guys hit level 2, and I'm seeing a lot of the computer teams now that seem to have almost the entire team with 3+ skills.

Are you in blitz mode, and if so have you been taking advantage of the 'offseason' (the time BEFORE you play the first game in a tournament), when you can attempt to purchase experienced players? If you save up all your cash from one tournament, and don't blow it on incentives and the like, you can pick up a couple more experienced players before your next tournament.

Also, I don't know if it's just me being stupid, but I did not realize that the 're-rolls' and 'apothecary re-rolls' you buy before match set-up are persistent through your career and NOT one-use...IOW if you have 2 re-rolls that means you can use 2 re-rolls every half of every every game. For the longest time I was being super stingy with those things, assuming that once I used them I would have to buy them again (and they ain't cheap), but now that I realize they're persistent, it's obviously changed my strategy a ton and made things a little easier.

[Calis]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I bought this last night and am having a blast with it. It's been a good week for game releases. I'll second Calis in that I think this game is more polished than many other major studio releases.

I'm also questioning the Wood Elves as a good beginner race. I'm a noob (played years ago, but don't remember jack) and I've tried a few One off games with the WE's. I love their agility and dodging but they are really very fragile. I'm thinking about starting a campaign with either humans or orcs which seem a bit more balanced to me.

Yeah I tried the Elves and I think it was a tough go for a noobie. It's a lot easier to grasp bashing the hell out of people rather than keeping distance and making sure you're not mauled. I'm finding the Orcs to be the perfect balance for me, but I think I will try Humans next campaign to have a little more open of an offense. I'm liking passing, and while the Orcs have some good throwers they don't have anyone who can catch it. Maybe investing in Goblins would help with that, not sure.

The Orcs, Dwarves, and Humans in that order seem like the easiest races to start with to me so far.

The Wood Elves seemed tough, and Chaos seemed extremely tough to me the gameI played with them. I read that Chaos really shines after they level up so maybe that's it, but they were a real challenge with a 1000 point team.

I just ran into that Dwarven Steamroller in my last game. Man that's nasty.

[Calis]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Are you in blitz mode, and if so have you been taking advantage of the 'offseason' (the time BEFORE you play the first game in a tournament), when you can attempt to purchase experienced players? If you save up all your cash from one tournament, and don't blow it on incentives and the like, you can pick up a couple more experienced players before your next tournament.

I'm actually in classic mode right now. I thought I'd start out with the most basic and move up from there. Not sure there's an equivalent there, at least I haven't seen it yet.

Not a big concern. I seem to be competitive still total value-wise and am not having trouble yet, but I hope I don't run into that further down the road. I think I'm keeping up now by having more rerolls and the apothecary that a lot of teams lack.

[Atocep]

Chaos are very hard to play to start out with. You need to invest in quite a few rerolls or they just frustrating.

Wood Elves are popular against noobs in multiplayer because they're really hard to defend against, but the AI is smart enough to defend them well so its hard to play them in the campaign as your first race.

[Icy]

You guys finally convinced me to buy it but... just checked and wow, 50€ that is like $71 so i think i'll pass by now.

[Nugget699]

Does anyone have any basic tactics on how to play this game? I've played a few games now and lost at least 3-0 in every one. I just can't seem to hold the ball long enough to actually get anything going on Offense. I actually achieved the impossible in my last game by actually managing to get the ball out of my own half!

When I do lose the ball the other team, on easy, seemingly throw the ball and rush around no problems and run to the end zone. If I try a simple pass however, even with my thrower, I just fumble it all over the place. This game is infuriatingly difficult, and with the tutorial being about as helpful as a map without names I'm at a loss as to basic tactics to keep possession and score a TD.

I've instantly regretted the purchase already.

[Atocep]

Here's the strengths and weaknesses for each race:

Blood Bowl • View topic - Races Described - Team Picking Guide For New Players


Here's the strategy threads for each of the races.

Dwarves:
Blood Bowl • View topic - Dwarves Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Lizardmen:
Blood Bowl • View topic - Lizardman Tactics, Strategy and Builds

Skaven:
Blood Bowl • View topic - Skaven Tactics, Strategy and Builds

Wood Elf:
Blood Bowl • View topic - Wood Elf Tactic Strategy and Build

Orc:
Blood Bowl • View topic - Orc Tactics, Strategy, and Builds

Chaos:
Blood Bowl • View topic - Chaos Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Goblins:
Blood Bowl • View topic - Goblin Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Human:
Blood Bowl • View topic - Human Tactic, Strategy and Build



Here's the official rulebook pdf. It actually makes a better manual than the one that comes with the game:

http://www.bloodbowlonline.com/LivingRulebook5.pdf

[Pumpy Tudors]

I just bought this game, even though I've never played Blood Bowl in any form before. Oh, boy.

[Icy]

Uhh so the download version is 50€ ($70) but the DVD version that will be available in Europe on July 2nd will cost 37€ ($50)

WTF? a downloadable version way more expensive than the physical one?

I'll wait the extra week for the DVD version then.

[Atocep]

Its really hard to give just basic strategy tips because the races play so differently. If you're building a team and playing against AI I'd avoid Wood Elves to start. I'd suggest Orcs (fairly well balanced) or Dwarves (just don't throw the ball...ever...).

When buying your players, just get 11. Spend the rest of your money getting 2-3 rerolls and some fan factor. They're more valuable than an extra lineman.

Reading over the basic rules for when players can help with blocks (along with the rules on other players helping with blocks), how what you need to roll is calculated, and other basics was a HUGE help for me. Almost all of my frustrations disappeared once I understood why things were happening and how I could push the random factors in my favor.

[Calis]

Biggest basic tip that helped me out is really paying attention to the order you do things. Make sure to do the free non-roll stuff before going to the "gimme" rolls and do the dicey stuff at the end.

Too many times I did something stupid first and wasted my entire turn.

Key to ball control definitely depends on race but with the Orcs or a tough team it is definitely patience. There are no downs so the only rush are the ends of halves. Don't leave your carrier exposed. Always have guys proetcting him and all lanes to him covered. Move slowly and wait for a hole.

Its overwhelming at first but if you read a little and understand the mechanics it will click. Let me reiterate shutting off the auto camera. That caused me the most problems.

[Pumpy Tudors]

My first game went well. As one of the higher-value orc teams, I managed a 1-1 draw with a lower dwarf team on easy level. At least it allowed me to figure out the interface a little bit. The game seems to run a little sluggishly on my machine, even though I've turned the graphics options down a bit, but I still like the game. I'm looking forward to starting a campaign.

[Nugget699]

I have swapped to real time now and am fairing much better. Thrashed the 1000 point Humans 3-0 with the 1000 point Orcs. I don't think I'm patient enough for the Turn-based game.

[thesloppy]

my basic tips, after much losing and learning would be:

In general, blocking (and almost everything else) will be tougher for every enemy adjacent to you, or easier for every friend adjacent to you (in blocking this is reflected by the number of dice involved in a block, team up on enemies to get more dice, try to avoid any 'red' rolls). So, figure out what you're critical moves are going to be first (usually attacking ball carriers, picking up the ball), and then setup your own players to assist, and block enemies out of that area before attempting those critical moves, which should therefore usually be saved towards the end of the turn. Trying to pick up the ball immediately, and failing, will end your turn with your other 10 players unmoved and likely out of position.

When making those critical moves, use the player with appropriate skills/attributes. High agility to pick up the ball, catch, and dodge out of tackle zones. High strength to block. High movement for ball carriers. Throwers have a skill to pick-up the ball better, catchers get a bonus for catching, blitzers can block better, etc. You can easily identify who can do what by highlighting a player and checking the indicator in the lower right, and both players' skills are shown during a block. Additionally, whenever you throw or pick up the ball, it will show you the roll required, so don't just glaze over that.

Do everything that WON'T require a roll of the dice (AKA unimpeded movement, that shows up as a completely green path) BEFORE you attempt ANY roll of the dice, as even the most lopsided roll can result in a turnover and the end of your turn leaving you out of position.

Pick your blitz well. You only get one 'blitz', (AKA a block from a player who has moved) per turn, so make sure to pick it well, and set it up properly. Whenever possible block with an adjacent, unmoved player, and save your blitz for the critical move of the turn. If you have a player adjacent to an enemy, have another player move next to the enemy and then attack with the unmoved player, rather than blitzing with moving player.

With or without the ball, it's always best to put bodies adjacent to all of your opponents players, so that they will have to dodge at least once if they want to move, and if they don't move you'll be in position to block them the next round without blitzing, and you'll also be in position to interfere with passes. Never leave any opposing player uncovered on your side of the field, knock 'em down or put a body (or two) next to them. NEVER end the turn with your ball carrier adjacent to an enemy player.

With the ball, IMO passing should be more of a last resort for the beginner, as it involves too many rolls compared to simply running the ball with a fast player. To maintain possession, surround the ball carrier with best blocking characters, so that your opposition has to block or dodge multiple times before they can even reach the ball carrier...rather than moving your ball carrier his max distance and leaving him alone in the field, move your players as a block, keeping them surrounding your ball carrier, which might cut your movement in half, but you'll be MUCH more likely to keep hold of the ball. Think of a set-up like this:

--X--
X---X
--B--
X---X
--X--

or

--X--
-XBX-
--X--

|-X
|B-
|-X

Where X = friend, B = ball carrier, - = empty space, and | = sideline.

In all of the above examples, anyone trying to get to the ball carrier is going to have to pass through several threatened spaces in order to even try and block the ball carrier, and no matter what they will have to blitz to do so, so they'll only get one shot at best. Obviously you need more friends for better protection, but even a couple helpers can block effectively, and even one guy is leagues better than nothing. Although the middle option might look more sturdy and protective, consider that an enemy who successfully blocks one of the surrounding players will then move adjacent to the ball carrier, whereas keeping things more spread out actually requires more dodges and blocks.

Take the TD immediately if you can get it. IOW if you have a player in range to score a TD, don't dilly and make a couple blocks first, hoping to add insult to injury or whatever, any roll can fail, resulting in a turnover and turning a certain score into disappointment, so take the points.

Maybe some help?

[RendeR]

I'm downloading now. Not sure what I want to start out with but I liike to be different....How are the Lizardmen?

[Calis]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I'm downloading now. Not sure what I want to start out with but I liike to be different....How are the Lizardmen?

I'm sure someone with more knowledge will have a lot more to say to me, but from what little I've seen they're an interesting team. One of the more advanced ones to play. The Skints I think it is you start with are incredibly weak, but it sounds like the benefit is you're really wide open in how you level them up, whereas a lot of the other races obviously have more defined roles for certain positions.

Pretty quick team overall but a little on the weak side.

Can't help with much else as I haven't tried them yet or even played against them. It might not be the best team to start out with, but they all seem pretty balanced so go for it!

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I was talking to KWhit.

Whatever asshat

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Whatever asshat

yup I am the asshat on that one.

[RendeR]

Hrm, Lizzies are definitely not an easy team to learn on. I started a championship and bought a team consisting of:

1 krox (big guy)
6 Saurus (blocking blitzing types)
4 Skinks (worthless sacks of goo)

I've lost to Humans (4-0), Dwarves (2-0), and ORcs (1-0 on the last fucking play)

I tied another lizard team 1-1

leveled up the Krox already, I use him as a battering ram. The skinks I keep to the sides/rear/ deep downfield to randomly be available to support the saurus or snag a loose ball.

Don;t try to pass with lizards.


JUST DON"T DAMNIT.


but it is kinda fun, though my machine is definitely slow running the game =(.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RendeR

but it is kinda fun, though my machine is definitely slow running the game =(.

I am thinking about picking this up, but am worried about the same thing. How much RAM are you running (I have 2 GB) and what type of video card?

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I am thinking about picking this up, but am worried about the same thing. How much RAM are you running (I have 2 GB) and what type of video card?

It whats holding me back too. I was in the beta and it was just on the verge of unplayable for me. If anything, id be playing turn based only, real time was out of the question. My PC is really old, 1gig of ram, p4 2.6 and a NVIDIA 6800 xt (agp). sigh.

If it was just slightly passable for me, sounds like you should be ok, BYU. Unless your vid card has no shader support.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Calis

I'm sure someone with more knowledge will have a lot more to say to me, but from what little I've seen they're an interesting team. One of the more advanced ones to play. The Skints I think it is you start with are incredibly weak, but it sounds like the benefit is you're really wide open in how you level them up, whereas a lot of the other races obviously have more defined roles for certain positions.

Pretty quick team overall but a little on the weak side.

Can't help with much else as I haven't tried them yet or even played against them. It might not be the best team to start out with, but they all seem pretty balanced so go for it!

While I was playing around I played a half as lizardmen. My memory of that game is that the other team scored quickly ( my inexperience ) then my skint failing the ball pickup roll 4 times. He was alone in my half and still couldn't get the thing.

I decided to play a team with a sure handed player. I've enjoyed the game lots better since.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by chinaski

It whats holding me back too. I was in the beta and it was just on the verge of unplayable for me. If anything, id be playing turn based only, real time was out of the question. My PC is really old, 1gig of ram, p4 2.6 and a NVIDIA 6800 xt (agp). sigh.

If it was just slightly passable for me, sounds like you should be ok, BYU. Unless your vid card has no shader support.

I have a Radeon 9800 that meets minimum specs, so I will probably have to tone down graphics a bit, oh well, in turn based it should be ok.

[Calis]

Originally Posted by Axxon

While I was playing around I played a half as lizardmen. My memory of that game is that the other team scored quickly ( my inexperience ) then my skint failing the ball pickup roll 4 times. He was alone in my half and still couldn't get the thing.

I decided to play a team with a sure handed player. I've enjoyed the game lots better since.

That's the same issue I ran into when I tried Chaos. I spent over half the game trying to pick up the ball it seemed like.

I did start another campaign as Wood Elves and now that I have a better grasp of the game it's going a lot differently. Really enjoying it. Almost polar opposite from my Orc team, but man it was fun in my first game at the end of the half seeing one of my Catchers dodge 2 tackles, pick up a loose ball, dodge another tackle and make it to the endzone to score. Good times.

Defense is tough though. I'm still not entirely sure what's the best method to take with them. Right now I'm just trying to build a wall around them almost and make them come to me. I try to keep everyone more than a square away when possible so I only have one guy getting hammered a turn, but that doesn't always work out for me. They end up keeping the ball for most of the half. I guess that's the balance though, because it only takes about 2 turns for the Elves to go the length of the field when they have the ball.

Seem to be leveling up a bit better as well since I can get some more points from passes.

[Axxon]

Oh, and I haven't seen it mentioned and I just discovered it but their is a strategy guide pdf in the manual folder. I've just glanced at it but it has information on how to use the players of the various races and a strategy section for match play.

[edit] I think it was a good read. It cleared up some stuff for me and the part where it describes how to set up situations and access the risk was very helpful. I know why a lot of my block situations were failing.

[RendeR]

I have a T7200 @ 2.o mghz machine with a Radeon 1300 video card. Probably well below the standards for this game. It plays slow but it plays so I'm ok with it.

[Calis]

Just had a Woof Elf vs. Skaven match in my campaign and that's something else all together. It was like a whole different game. I now have officially learned to hate Gutter Runners. Sure you can knock the crap out of them, but man do they move! I got burnt several times by them. I was only able to eke out a draw, and we had a pretty epic last couple turns with us each lobbing up hail maries basically, and if either one could have caught it that was game. Instead we both ended up throwing interceptions, so hey...there's 2 easy skill points.

Wardancer has definitely moved up to my favorite unit in the game so far. They are just all around guys. Anyone know what the majority of people specialize them in? I checked in the Woof Elf thread linked earlier and couldn't find much. I'm right now looking at them as almost throwers, giving both of them Sure Hands to start with. I really don't know where to go with them from there though.

So many options.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Calis

Just had a Woof Elf vs. Skaven match in my campaign and that's something else all together. It was like a whole different game. I now have officially learned to hate Gutter Runners. Sure you can knock the crap out of them, but man do they move! I got burnt several times by them. I was only able to eke out a draw, and we had a pretty epic last couple turns with us each lobbing up hail maries basically, and if either one could have caught it that was game. Instead we both ended up throwing interceptions, so hey...there's 2 easy skill points.

Wardancer has definitely moved up to my favorite unit in the game so far. They are just all around guys. Anyone know what the majority of people specialize them in? I checked in the Woof Elf thread linked earlier and couldn't find much. I'm right now looking at them as almost throwers, giving both of them Sure Hands to start with. I really don't know where to go with them from there though.

So many options.

Do not give them sure hands. WDs are not throwers. Also, to make sure you develop the team properly, do not rely on them early. WDs can take strip ball as a skill, which makes them turnover machines. You can also give them tackle to get those guys that have dodge, side step works well, and pray for box cars. A +1 ST WD is a gift from Nuffle. A +1 AG WD isn't far behind.

[SirFozzie]

A +ST or AG WD is an abomination and must be fouled to death. Repeatedly.