enigma 41

[TazFTW]

What I've tried to do is add the coordinates to the starting point on 50 0 0/0 0 0, so the first coordinates 129-010 would make 51 2 9/0 1 0 which puts me in the Pacific Ocean southeast of the Russian tip with the Bering Sea to the Northeast and the Sea of Okhotsok to the west.


Not sure where to go with the 2nd set. Do I add them to the original 50 0 0/ 0 0 0 or the new 51 2 9/0 1 0 ?

Adding them to the 51 2 9/0 1 0 gives me 52 5 12/0 1 6 which places me in the town of Hinxton, southeast of Cambridge in England.

Adding them to 50 0 0/0 1 0 gives me 51 3 3 /0 0 6 which places me in Poland somewhere southwest of Wroclaw (it looks like Partynice, can't see any better as mapquest freaks out)

[QuikSand]

Bump.


Maybe these are starting/ending points to famous journeys? I know there have been many documented swimmers to cross the English Channel, for instance. Maybe the Bering Straits has some similar connection... beats me. Maybe some of the other locations might turn out to be places like the takeoff/landing for Lindbergh, or the Titanic, or Magellan, or something along those lines.

Just a thought to try to include the seemingly disparate coordinates we're "seeing" (though I still don't think we have figured things out very well there).

[QuikSand]

So, is there a website that easily converts a lat/long coordinate pair into a mapped location? I did a quick search, and didn't find something that worked very well.


Oh.. and bump.

[ThunderingHERD]

Wow. I forgot all about this.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

When I use 50 0 0 and 0 0 0 (degrees, mins, secs) in mapquest's lat/long thing, it puts the star on La Manche in the English Channel. From what I've googled La Manche is what the French call the English Channel.

Maybe the point is for the Chunnel? Maybe going historical with Normandy?

[edit]La Manche means The Sleeve.

quoted as possible progress...

[henry296]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

So, is there a website that easily converts a lat/long coordinate pair into a mapped location? I did a quick search, and didn't find something that worked very well.


Oh.. and bump.

Quik,

I have some software at work that will do this. If you want to PM some coordinates, I could test them out for you.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by henry296

Quik,

I have some software at work that will do this. If you want to PM some coordinates, I could test them out for you.

I'm not even that far along... just trying to spur some comversation again.

I'm presuming that the English Channel is "correct" -- so what is the mathodology that was used to find those coordinates, I am having troble understanding from the posts about it. Doesn't seem like it ought to be that hard to replicate... which is presumably why enigma is so steamed at us.

[terpkristin]

So, I started looking at this problem, and I have two theories.
One, building off of what was done here with the "starting" coordinates of 50.0.0 N, 0.0.0 W, and adding each, I came up with THIS sequence of coordinates (in degrees.minutes.seconds):

1) 50.0.0 N 0.0.0 W
2) 51.2.9 N 0.1.0 E (or should we go West? I assumed East because that's where more land is...That question remains for all numbers)
3) 52.5.12 N 0.1.6 E
4) 55.8.12 N 2.3.11 E
5) 58.10.17 N 4.8.16 E
6) 61.12.22 N 6.13.21 E
7) 64.15.27 N 8.15.27 E
8) 68.18.32 N 9.16.31 E
9) 71.21.32 N 11.17.36 E
10) 72.24.37 N 11.17.40 E
11) 74.27.37 N 12.22.40 E
12) 75.30.37 N 12.23.40 E
13) 77.33.37 N 13.28.40 E
14) 78.35.45 N 13.29.43 E
15) 80.37.51 N 16.29.49 E
16) 83.41.56 N 18.31.58 E
17) 83.45.64 N 19.31.63 E ***This is where it gets interesting: 60 seconds in a minute, therefore this really is 83.46.4 N and 19.32.3 E
18) 85.49.5 N 20.37.9 E
19) 86.51.10 N 20.37.13 E
20) 86.56.15 N 21.38.18 E

So, take that for what you will. I don't have access to a map of high enough fidelity to play with it, unless MapQuest or some other website will let me enter in my numbers and tell me a location...

In my next post, I'll outline the other method I used (admittedly wooly).

/tk

[Huckleberry]

You can do it at MapBlast by changing the URL.

http://www.mapblast.com/(y31l2qqrrdq...000&A=35.83333

hxxp://www.mapblast.com/(y31l2qqrrdq2bdapea0muwzd)/map.aspx?L=USA&C=30.00000%2c-90.00000&A=35.83333

Just change the numbers around the "%2c" at the end.

[terpkristin]

Well, I did them all for going "East" and most tend to be in oceans. Unless there's someone out there with a map of the world who can plot these out and connect the dots, I don't think most of these locations are useful. I don't have a map of the world, or else I'd try it. I'll try it going "West" and see if it comes out any differently, but if it doesn't, I'll elaborate on my other thought...

/tk

[terpkristin]

Well, this is the results of my plotting the stuff from post #58, going East and West.

North	East or West	East Loc	West Loc (-)
50.0.0	0.0.0	La Manche/English Channel
51.2.9	0.1.0	Pacific Ocean near Bearing Strait	Pacific Ocean, near Bearing Strait
52.5.12	0.1.6	England, near London, Hinxton	Pacific Ocean
55.8.12	2.3.11	North Sea	in UK, near Great Bavington
58.10.17	4.8.16	North Sea	in northern UK, near River Skinsdale
61.12.22	6.13.21	Norway, near Bergen, near Hoyanger, near Lanefjorden	Atlantic Ocean near Torshavn
64.15.27	8.15.27	In Norwegian Sea, north of Norway	in Norwegian Sea, east of Iceland
68.18.32	9.16.31	In Norwegian Sea, north of Norway	in Norwegian Sea, east of Iceland
71.21.32	11.17.36	In Norwegian Sea, north of Norway	in Greenland Sea
72.24.37	11.17.40	Norwegian Sea, near Greenland Sea	in Greenland Sea
74.27.37	12.22.40	between Norwegian Sea and Greenland Sea	in Greenland Sea
75.30.37	12.23.40	between Norwegian Sea and Greenland Sea	in Greenland Sea
77.33.37	13.28.40	probably in Greenland Sea	in Greenland Sea
78.35.45	13.29.43	in land that seems to be owned by Norway	in Greenland Sea
80.37.51	16.29.49	in the Arctic Ocean	on Eastern side of Greenland
83.41.56	18.31.58	in Arctic Ocean	in Greenland Sea or Arctic Ocean
83.46.4	19.32.3	in Arctic Ocean	in Greenland Sea or Arctic Ocean
85.49.5	20.37.9	in Arctic Ocean	in Arctic Ocean
86.51.10	20.37.13	in Arctic Ocean	in Arctic Ocean
86.56.15	21.38.18	in Arctic Ocean	in Arctic Ocean

I'm not making heads or tails of that. I'm also not convinced that connecting those dots really does anything--it's going to form an arc, trending generally north and east or west, depending...

So, I'll describe my other method of figuring out coordinates soon.

/tk

[QuikSand]

One last bump... I am considering just reclaiming the reins of this thing, as I stil think the idea is worthwhile. Maybe the collective would-be solving community just gets a pass on this one, and we'll move onward.

Last call for contributions or solutions...

[terpkristin]

I got nothing on this one. I tried mightily...and failed.

/tk

[cuervo72]

The only other thought I had would be if the 19 numbers were distance-azimuth, but I don't think that really makes any sense.

[Lonnie]

With all the locations coming up English Channel, I started looking at different ways to compute the coordinates. I tried to use the number as the number of minutes and then calculate to degrees. The first one came up as 52.15 N 0.17 W, I was smack dab in the middle of England.

So that made me think of Soccer. So I counted the entries and there were 19. Premier League has 20 teams. So that would leave one missing. I think these are coordinates for the Premier League teams. That would be why one is counted twice for Manchester.

So I looked up Manchester and it is 53.48 N 2.25 W, if you can reverse engineer it to 325-255 I think you'll find the conversion and be able to find the missing team.

[Lonnie]

Dola,

While searching for "Premier League Map" I found this cool map someone made that shows all the English football club stadiums.

http://footballclubs.dyndns.org/footballclubs/

[cuervo72]

Why don't you just post the missing team then, or use it to solve?

I can buy that though, I would expect a sports tie and that seems as reasonable as any. Soccer had occured to me with London, but I don't really know anything about any leagues there and didn't much know where to start.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by Lonnie

With all the locations coming up English Channel, I started looking at different ways to compute the coordinates. I tried to use the number as the number of minutes and then calculate to degrees. The first one came up as 52.15 N 0.17 W, I was smack dab in the middle of England.

How did you get 52.15N 0.17 W ?

[enigma]

Originally Posted by Lonnie

With all the locations coming up English Channel, I started looking at different ways to compute the coordinates. I tried to use the number as the number of minutes and then calculate to degrees. The first one came up as 52.15 N 0.17 W, I was smack dab in the middle of England.

So that made me think of Soccer. So I counted the entries and there were 19. Premier League has 20 teams. So that would leave one missing. I think these are coordinates for the Premier League teams. That would be why one is counted twice for Manchester.

So I looked up Manchester and it is 53.48 N 2.25 W, if you can reverse engineer it to 325-255 I think you'll find the conversion and be able to find the missing team.

Very good. This one has lasted three months now, nice that someone is looking at the coordinates in this manner.

So, given the clues and the map you posted, what stands out about one of the 20?

[Lonnie]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

How did you get 52.15N 0.17 W ?

Actually I think that was a dead end, but it is what got my wheels turning.

Using the clues as minutes, I set out to transform them to degrees in decimal format. I took the 129/60 gave me 2 degrees 9 minutes. 9/60 = .15 (decimal minutes.) Then 10/60 = .17.

So:

129 minutes = 2.15 degrees, 010 minutes = 0.17 degrees. Then following the thread I add them to 50 and 0 respectively.

50 + 2.15 = 52.15 N
0 + .17 = 0.17 W

It was the end of my workday after I figured that out so I went home. Now I'm watching the game so I might try to finish it up later. If anyone else is up to solving it, go ahead. I really don't desire to be the enigma, I'm not enigmatic enough.

[QuikSand]

Bumping for daytime crowd. Seems like progress.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by enigma

129-010
133-006
330-215
325-255
325-255
335-226
435-114
330-215
135-004
230-150
130-010
230-150
128-013
226-306
345-229
048-105
231-156
125-004
055-115

For reference...

[terpkristin]

Going by the above logic, I get these coordinates (adding each number to 50N/0W):

		50	0
N	W	N	W
129	10	52.15	0.17
133	6	52.22	0.10
330	215	55.50	3.58
325	255	55.42	4.25
325	255	55.42	4.25
335	226	55.58	3.77
435	114	57.25	1.90
330	214	55.50	3.57
135	4	52.25	0.07
230	150	53.83	2.50
130	10	52.17	0.17
230	150	53.83	2.50
128	13	52.13	0.22
226	306	53.77	5.10
345	229	55.75	3.82
48	105	50.80	1.75
231	156	53.85	2.60
125	4	52.08	0.07
55	115	50.92	1.92
		resultants

[Lonnie]

Actually after looking back, I think there is no need to convert to degrees. Just use the first number of the 3 as degrees and the second two as minutes. Then divide the minutes by 60 to get decimal degrees. i.e. 129 would be 51 degrees 29 minutes which is 51.48 degrees. This matches up with the league cities better since the most north is under 55 degrees.

So

N W N W
129 010 51.48 0.17

When just looking at the clues and the map as enigma suggested, I see that he has one entry that is a good bit more north than the rest, 435-114. When looking at the map I see that there actually two Premier League teams in the most north area, Newcastle and Sunderland. So either one of them is the answer, or this might be based on last years lineup. Sunderland was promoted this year so they would not exist in the previous 04/05 season. That would leave Norwich alone in the northern most location. However Middlesbrough is also farther north than most at around 54.58 N 1.23 W. 435-114 converted as I have shown above would be 54.58 N 1.22 W. Nice. That would tell me Newcastle should be the answer if this is based on the 04/05 Premier League lineup.

[Lonnie]

I was wrong.

[ThunderingHERD]

The Premier League thing sounded good--the top level clue is "Add to see what was subtracted" after all. I don't know anything about maps so I don't really feel like fooling around with the whole coordinates thing. How about somebody just guessing every team and lets be done with it?

[Lonnie]

Well for reference I tried newcastle and newcastleunited with no luck.

[Lonnie]

.. and stjamespark which is the name of the stadium.

[gstelmack]

If it's Premier League teams, wouldn't the final answer be whoever was bumped down a level?

[Godzilla Blitz]

I think the key is to figure out the code to get 325-255 to Manchester at 53.48/2.25.

No matter how I calculate, it comes off somewhat, but if we simply alternate digits in the original code we get 355 and 225 which would give us 53.55 and 02.25, which is pretty close.

Trying this to see if they work for the others.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Hummm...

The first one is 51.90 and 02.10, which is Cheltenham. This might be on to something.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Or not.

Cheltenham doesn't have a Premier League team, it seems.

I got nothing.

[footballclubs]

Hey guys, how goes it. Say, I don't frequent this forum, but happened to see several hits from this thread going to my England football mapping site. Everyone is most welcome. Out of curiosity, what are you guys doing? I see lat/long coords mentioned, I think. Are you trying to map the locations of the England football club stadiums? Anyway, feel free to drop me a line at [email protected] if you have any questions about my site. Hope you've found it useful. Thanks.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Hummm...

I just realized you can filter that map to show only the Premier League Clubs.

Once I did that, the fact that most of the teams have other teams nearby stands out:

Liverpool: 2 teams
Manchester: 2 teams
Wigan Area: 3 teams
London: 6 teams
Middlesborough: 1 team
Birmingham: 3 teams
Portsmouth: 1 team
Sunderland area: 2 teams

If these coordinates match to British soccer teams, they should cluster fairly close together. There should be six teams in the London area, at roughly 51.50/00.10, at a guess.

None of the teams appears to share a stadium with a different Premier League team, which makes the pair of identical coordinates confusing.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by footballclubs

Hey guys, how goes it. Say, I don't frequent this forum, but happened to see several hits from this thread going to my England football mapping site. Everyone is most welcome. Out of curiosity, what are you guys doing? I see lat/long coords mentioned, I think. Are you trying to map the locations of the England football club stadiums? Anyway, feel free to drop me a line at [email protected] if you have any questions about my site. Hope you've found it useful. Thanks.

We are trying to locate all the werewolves currently residing near English football teams. Then once we find the werewolf we send him a letter with "Vote:Werewolf" on it. Then that werewolf is out of the game. We know werewolves are big soccer fans so it made sense.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Originally Posted by footballclubs

Hey guys, how goes it. Say, I don't frequent this forum, but happened to see several hits from this thread going to my England football mapping site. Everyone is most welcome. Out of curiosity, what are you guys doing? I see lat/long coords mentioned, I think. Are you trying to map the locations of the England football club stadiums? Anyway, feel free to drop me a line at [email protected] if you have any questions about my site. Hope you've found it useful. Thanks.

Ah...Hi there! Welcome.

We're frittering away our productive days trying to solve a puzzle that a forum member has posted. We are thinking that is has something to do with Premier League Soccer teams and their map coordinates, which has lead us to your very helpful site.

[gstelmack]

I like rkmsuf's answer better.

[footballclubs]

Oh, weird. Not sure what game Werewolves are in, but that's cool. I'm happy to see my site is being of some assistance. Yes, it's actually quite configurable, as you can narrow down the clubs shown on the maps based by league, and you can also go directly to where each club's stadium is at.

Have fun! If you find my site interesting, please plass along to your footballer friends. Take care.

[rkmsuf]

Very pleasant fellow.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by footballclubs

Oh, weird. Not sure what game Werewolves are in, but that's cool.

It's an inside joke. See all the threads whose titles start with "Werewolf". It's a little on-line game being played on the forums where people take on various identities without knowing the identities of the others in the game, hence the Lyncanthrope reference.

This place has a pretty good sense of humor over these things, and jokes like this (along with some nasty contentious political and religious debates) tide us over during the periods between new American Football text sim releases.

[Lonnie]

I can get pretty close on all of the locations except for the most west location 226-306, which I translate as 52.43 N 3.1 W. This would be West of Shrewsbury Town, but there are no clubs in any division in that direction. Was there a football club out there that closed down?

here's is what I have for the rest starting east and heading west.

Crystal Palace		51.58	0.07
Charlton		51.42	0.07
Tottenham		51.55	0.1
Arsenal		        51.48	0.17
Chelsea		        51.5	0.17
Fulham		        51.47	0.22
Portsmouth		50.8	1.08
Middlesbrough		54.58	1.23
South Hampton		50.91	1.25
Birmingham		52.5	1.83
Aston Villa		52.5	1.83
West Brom		52.52	1.93
Manchester		53.5	2.25
Man U		        53.5	2.25
Bolton		        53.58	2.43
Blackburn		53.75	2.48
Liverpool		53.42	2.91
Everton		        53.42	2.91
??		        52.43	3.1

[enigma]

Originally Posted by Lonnie

I can get pretty close on all of the locations except for the most west location 226-306, which I translate as 52.43 N 3.1 W. This would be West of Shrewsbury Town, but there are no clubs in any division in that direction. Was there a football club out there that closed down?

here's is what I have for the rest starting east and heading west.

It's been three months and one day since the puzzle was posted. That's a long time ago, isn't it?

[enigma]

Originally Posted by Lonnie

If anyone else is up to solving it, go ahead. I really don't desire to be the enigma, I'm not enigmatic enough.

Hence the fatal flaw with the enigma. I've done that myself four or five times.

[Lonnie]

I can get to the 52.43 N 3.1 W with multimap and find that is where Newcastle is.

http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.c...le=5000&icon=x

However the map with all the clubs on it shows Newcastle to be up north at 54.98 N 1.62 W, as "Newcastle upon Tyne." Now I have to go over my list and double check things again.

[enigma]

Well I posted that I solved it earlier, I guess one of those board crashes caused it to get lost.

The answer was norwich which was the only one not in the list. That is if you use the 04/05 Premier League season. Norwich was regulated to the Championship League after coming in 19th last year. Hence the enigma, "long time ago" quote. A new season has started since this enigma was posted. The only problem was the mismapping of Newcastle.

I will hopefully have enigma 42 up soon.

[QuikSand]

*whew*

Well done. Finally.

[TazFTW]

Yay, Jim can finally rest.

[ThunderingHERD]

[mhass]

I'm so happy about this being solved. And a bit intrigued as to why Jim might be studying English soccer leagues.... hmmm.