09-11-2003, 01:55 AM | #51 | ||
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
Last edited by TLK : 12-15-2003 at 08:43 PM. |
||
09-12-2003, 04:30 PM | #52 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
|
Why would anyone pay that much cash for a racing series destined for failure?
|
09-12-2003, 05:10 PM | #53 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
Quote:
deep breath...... What exactly do you mean doomed for failure? Last edited by TLK : 09-12-2003 at 05:10 PM. |
|
09-12-2003, 06:21 PM | #54 |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
|
CART does have a much bigger overseas following. But F1 is king. Over here in Europe, the F1 fans put any of the NASCAR fanboys to shame. I'm going to Monza on Sunday, and they are expecting over ONE MILLION people in the area, even though only about 80,000 can actually get to the race track. And it was the same in May at Monte Carlo.
I guess it's kinda like soccer. It's a sport the world outside the US loves. Driving in circles (don't get me wrong, I do like NASCAR, but not as much as road circuits) just doesn't click with racing fans world-wide. Give me open-wheel at Laguna Seca over stockcars at Texas Motor Speedway anyday.
__________________
Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
09-15-2003, 02:01 PM | #55 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
|
The series is already on one leg and the IRL keeps gaining popularity. I don't like Tony George any more than the next guy, but the IRL has gained more in the past couple of years than CART. It's only a matter of time, now, although this purchase may save them a few more years.
|
09-15-2003, 02:56 PM | #56 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
Quote:
I have to disagree. The IRL and CART pretty much have the same network TV ratings (sans the Indy 500). CART's attendance is sooo much greater than the EARL's it's not even funny. Both series race at Fontana over the next month or so, so that'll be a good comparison. CART's purchase might not be the end-all to the problems. However, they a fan-base that is loyal and actually gets out to the races. The new owners plan on tying in concerts to bring even more people out. In Miami in a few weeks, they have Kid Rock and Elton John preforming. It may not be the solution, but it's a step in the right direction..... Back to the EARL though, If anything they're losing their fan-base.... The light (orange-yellowish) line shows the Super Bowls ratings, while the dark line shows the ratings of the Indy 500. Take note of the decline in 1996, and how they've never recovered from CART breaking off. Also take a look at how the ratings how been on a downward tread, so their really no gaining any popularity, rather losing it. |
|
09-15-2003, 08:05 PM | #57 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
bump for FishFan...........
|
09-15-2003, 08:41 PM | #58 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
|
Television ratings are a horrible statistic to base anything off of. There are simply too many entertainment options now as more and more channels pop up. As long as there are more options, of course ratings are going to be down.
You can make the same argument about the Super Bowl since it has shown a decline in ratings over the years. I know what I know from the Indianapolis media, which is fairly biased towards the IRL, of course, but they are still hard on the owners of IMS. I would be personally surprised if CART is still around in five years because sooner or later, open wheel racing can only support one circuit and the IRL has become politcally more powerful. CART will eventually fold or the two circuits will merge again, with the IRL dictating the merger. |
12-15-2003, 08:45 PM | #59 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
There Will Be A 2004 Season
Quote:
Last edited by TLK : 12-15-2003 at 08:45 PM. |
|
01-13-2004, 04:07 PM | #60 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
AHHHHHH----
Quote:
|
|
01-13-2004, 06:03 PM | #61 |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
|
So the feud between Tony George and the Owners is finally ending. With Tony George winning. Now he can stop the charade, put Long Beach, Laguna Seca, Road America, and hopefully some of the other cool CART circuits with the IRL, and Open Wheel Racing in the US can get back on track.
Hopefully the IRL does a better job of selling the series as a whole than IRL or CART did seperately. |
01-13-2004, 06:19 PM | #62 | |
Quarterback
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: London, England
|
Quote:
If the IRL takes over CART, that will kill my interest in American Open Wheel racing. My interest in F1 has been waning over the last 8 years or so, as the races have become deathly dull and any driver with an ounce of personality is shoved out the door. Looks like I will be watching Aussie V8's and the WRC this year. |
|
01-13-2004, 07:14 PM | #63 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
I heard an interview today with Robin Miller who said that Tony George may just be buying CART to kill it. The plan would then be for the IRL to go road racing in 2005. This would force the CART teams to come race for the IRL this season, and help their car count (which is at 17-18). The Trans-Am series would run Long Beach this year.
I'm going to wait and see what happens here. I will say though, I'm out too, if the IRL takes over CART. Last edited by TLK : 01-13-2004 at 07:17 PM. |
01-13-2004, 11:06 PM | #64 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
Paul Gentilozzi says not so fast....
Quote:
Finally some good news.... |
|
01-13-2004, 11:11 PM | #65 |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: The Mad City, WI
|
Is there any way we can get Tony George arrested for terrorism?
|
01-14-2004, 01:45 AM | #66 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
Pics from the Detroit Auto Show
|
01-14-2004, 11:46 AM | #67 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
|
From what I've heard in Indy, the IRL is only looking to buy some assets. The CART Series was run into the ground and they have things that any racing series would want. I don't see what the big deal about this is. Tony George is not out to kill CART - it's already dead. That's why George struggled with the decision to enter a bid - he did not want to be viewed as someone out to kill an already dead racing series. From a business standpoint, this is a no-brainer for George. He can get some assets that the IRL needs (including the rights to four road races at various sites like Long Beach and Mexico) at a discount price. Why wouldn't he do it? It's too bad that people are still so upset over the split that happened what, 10 years ago? The IRL is here to stay and the CART could not stay above water, financially.
FWIW, the International Speedway Corp. is also interested in purchasing some assets. If you guys are hoping for the OWRS to just get up and running without any problems, then you are going to be disappointed. This is a business. |
01-14-2004, 11:47 AM | #68 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
|
Dola. After reading that second article, I see it points out some of my points...
|
01-14-2004, 11:52 AM | #69 |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Davis, CA
|
So for close to a decade of warfare, the result might be that Tony George ends with total control of a series that is going to be just like CART was, but with inferior, cheaper cars? Exactly what was the point of all this, other than to George's megalomania?
|
01-14-2004, 12:35 PM | #70 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
Quote:
Exactly. Every single statement he made when he started the series has been altered. If he thinks he's going to gain fans by not having any competiton he's wrong. If anything he may upset some of current IRL fanbase by staying from the "we don't turn right" format. For the record, yes, CART is dead. But if TG doesn't interfere, there will there be a ChampCar race at Long Beach this year..... Edit: Can't spell today... Last edited by TLK : 01-14-2004 at 12:55 PM. |
|
01-14-2004, 12:43 PM | #71 |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Davis, CA
|
You know, Tony George might be the only guy in all of sports that can make George Steinbrenner and Al Davis look benign.
|
01-14-2004, 01:13 PM | #72 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
Another quote from Gentilozzi:
Quote:
This is going to get interesting.... |
|
01-14-2004, 02:46 PM | #73 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
|
I'm staying out of this one.
Who thinks who is a lap down? Amazing... |
01-14-2004, 02:53 PM | #74 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
|
FishFan -- it took me a second to sort out the players, but best I can tell, the "lap down" comment came from one of the previous bidders for the CART assets.
I assume it referred to George being late in the bidding process, not to IRL being a lap down to CART or anything like that. At least, I hope that's what was meant. Otherwise, this Gentilozzi must be some sort of idiot. |
01-14-2004, 03:12 PM | #75 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
Jon is right.... sorry I didn't post the whole article but I was in a hurry.... here's the article.....
Quote:
|
|
01-14-2004, 04:13 PM | #76 | |||||||
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
Off the topic of the merger, but this goes to the character of the IRL and Mr. George.....
Quote:
Without Honda and Toyota's engine leasing program, the IRL would of had exactly six cars racing in 2003 Quote:
In 1998, the Speedway/IRL boys hosted something called "Champions Day," a short-lived attempt to bring short-track sprint guys to IMS for exposure. This experiment at getting them rides in the IRL failed, of course, but the quotes are amusing. I believe the IRL will have exactly one USAC driver in next year's field. Following up on this.... Quote:
and a more recent quote from the aforementioned Mr. Boat.... Quote:
Limited opportunities because the rides that are available are those that went to foreigners and ride-buyers. Not exactly the original vision.... Quote:
Is it me or does this perfectly explain the situation that the IRL is in today.... Quote:
Scratching my head over this one.... He would later announce a 25/8 rule that would insure that 25 of the 33 spots for the Indy 500 would go to IRL drivers. I'll stay away from the we're not trying to replace any series, even though that is what's going on now.... Quote:
This is my favorite. If you subtract the Indy 500 from the schedule, the IRL wasn't even the most watched open-wheel series in America. The fact is they can't draw flies to a race outside of Texas and Indy without season-ticket packages that include NASCAR. I'll feel bad for ole' TG when Toyota gets into NASCAR and they bolt the IRL. To compare the IRL to NASCAR and F1 is hilarious. |
|||||||
01-15-2004, 10:07 AM | #77 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
|
A lot changes in seven, eight years, doesn't it? Of course the landscape of racing and the IRL will change from year-to-year. Racing changed from year-to-year before the birth of the IRL. You could take quotes for any industry 7-8 years ago and point out flaws in people's vision. It's business. I don't see the point of all of this?
As for the last quote, I would hope Tony George would hope the IRL is the premier racing series in five to ten years. Even though it wouldn't happen, you need to be optimistic about the future of the series. If you just concede to NASCAR and F1, you will fail Just ask CART about that. It's amazing that people are still bitter over the split that happened almost 10 years ago. I was bitter when it happned, but continued to watch both series' over the next few years until CART got so boring I couldn't stand it anymore. The IRL had more exciting races and as more and more drivers made the jump to IRL, I had no other reason to even tune into a CART race. I'm not saying the IRL is the premier racing series in the world, but they have definitely put on a better show than CART over the past two years. |
01-15-2004, 10:09 AM | #78 | |
College Prospect
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
|
Quote:
That makes sense, then. |
|
01-15-2004, 02:44 PM | #79 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
Quote:
I guess the whole point is that the IRL is turning into the exact same thing CART was when Tony George pulled out. He has shown no consistency over the years. Am I bitter? Yes. George took what was once the best series in the world and turned Open Wheel racing into the mess it's in today. The drivers "jumped to the IRL" were forced by their contracts with their owner or engine manufacturer. Ask Scott Dixon or Dario Franchetti. I can't name one driver that came from CART that wasn't bound by a contract (I guess Manning this year). Dixon and Manning (and I guess Franchetti) have hopes of getting into F-1, and I feel bad for them because they'll never get there through the IRL. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I can't watch IRL races. The cars are ugly and the engines sound like crap. You have to love all the debris yellows at the end of the races. They love to bunch the field up so they can have the last lap photo finish and maybe get on SportsCenter. Thumbs Up Tony. How about safety. Wanna know how many CART drivers missed races due to injury this year..... 1 and it was a mild concussion. The IRL had 11 injuries, all which were more serious than a concussion including a fatality. What was the IRL's fix to this.... they reduced speeds by about 5 mph and made no changes to the body of the car. Kenny Brack is lucky he's still alive and I really think (despite what he says) that we won't see him in an IRL car ever again. I wish I could say the same for Tony Renna. There's one very important thing that Mr. George has to realize if he buys CART's assets...... CART's fans don't come with them..... |
|
01-15-2004, 02:47 PM | #80 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
I don't know how much to read into this, as I'm not a lawyer.... but if this is true this is one of the funniest things I've read in a while.
Quote:
From the paid subscription part of AutoRacing1.com |
|
01-16-2004, 12:18 AM | #81 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
Here's a link with the history of the CART/Indy Car/IRL split for anyone that's interested.....
hXXp://www.netaxs.com/~gg1/race/cartirl.htm Last edited by TLK : 01-16-2004 at 12:20 AM. |
01-16-2004, 03:02 AM | #82 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Sep 2002
|
What made CART so great? I love that series in the heyday. Long Beach, Indy, Cleveland, ect. Can a CART-like series exist anymore, or a start-up with the same idea compete?
Also, what's the deal with Formula One? Have they fallen alittle as well? Isn't their rumor a new series to challenge them? Also, why are they not on tv anymore, and is success in the states rising with the addition of Indy? Why do they not run ovals at all? |
01-16-2004, 03:04 AM | #83 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Sep 2002
|
Quote:
From that site, I found this tidbid quite interesting: May 1993: Emerson Fittipaldi refuses traditional milk drink after winning the 500 and substitutes orange juice, drawing much criticism. |
|
01-16-2004, 04:14 PM | #84 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Sep 2002
|
Bump...
|
01-16-2004, 05:02 PM | #85 | ||
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
Quote:
A startup series isn't the answer now. Up until last week, I was behind a merger, now I'm really not sure with the crap Tony George was pulling this week. This would be the ideal merger....
That's off the top of my head..... I'm sure I'll have more to add later.... Quote:
Formula 1 won't be bigger in America, until they get an American driver in the field. The Indy attendance has gone down year by year. I'm not a fan of the track setup that they use there, but that is one race I'd like to see in person. They don't run ovals because their smart. Ovals are mostly only popular in the US and the risk of injury is so much greater. I believe there is the ASCAR series in Europe that runs ovals, but that's about it. Last edited by TLK : 01-16-2004 at 07:45 PM. |
||
01-16-2004, 05:27 PM | #86 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Sep 2002
|
Formula One seems to run very specific track designs. How come they only run one street circuit?
|
01-16-2004, 07:53 PM | #87 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
Quote:
If it's not the right type of street track, it is bad racing. The only reason F-1 keeps Monaco on the schedule, is because it's Monaco. It's a real bad track with hardly any passing zones. It is talked about that F-1 might return to Long Beach for their American date, after their contract with TG is up. Long Beach, St. Pete and Toronto are the best street circuits on the CART circuit. Vancouver, Denver and Miami fall into the can't pass and alltogether too tight.... Last edited by TLK : 01-16-2004 at 07:55 PM. |
|
01-16-2004, 10:05 PM | #88 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Sep 2002
|
I love the Long Beach circuit. I think it's the Monaco of the CART/US circruit, with a betetr track.
|
01-16-2004, 10:49 PM | #89 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
The IRL Fires Back.....
Quote:
|
|
01-17-2004, 01:12 AM | #90 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Sep 2002
|
Wasn't F1 looking at Las Vegas, using the Strip, as possible US race.
|
01-17-2004, 01:43 PM | #91 | |
Quarterback
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: London, England
|
Quote:
Actually, F1 races on two street circuits. The first race of the season in Australia is raced on a street circuit, but it is not nearly as tight as a traditional street circuit. I also believe that the Belgian and Canadian tracks use public roads for at least part of the track. |
|
01-17-2004, 01:53 PM | #92 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
Quote:
I can't believe I forgot about Melbourne..... You're right also about Montreal, but again, a really nice track to complete passes on. I need to brush up on my Formula-1 knowledge because if there is no CART in 04'..... that's what I'll be watching.... Last edited by TLK : 01-17-2004 at 01:55 PM. |
|
01-17-2004, 01:57 PM | #93 | |
Mascot
Join Date: Nov 2003
|
Quote:
|
|
01-17-2004, 02:01 PM | #94 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
|
Quote:
I doubt F1 was, but F1 does look in a lot of locales. They have even considered building a track near Istanbul. The Turks are very big fans of fast cars but are only curiously interested in F1 at this point. |
|
01-17-2004, 02:02 PM | #95 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
Quote:
I really can't see Formula-1 racing in Las Vegas. They raced their in the early 80's and the track was awful. Granted it didn't help that it was in the parking lot of one the casino's (Ceasar's Palace?). The problem with a race on the strip is that there are way too many ego's involved that would want a piece of the pie. In my dreamworld, a race down the strip, right before nightfall would be money, but I don't think we'll see any group pull it off any time soon. It amazes me that back when F-1 ran Vegas, they had three races in America.... now we have one with declining attendance. |
|
01-17-2004, 02:04 PM | #96 |
Mascot
Join Date: Nov 2003
|
An F1 race at night would be suicidal for the drivers. That won't happen in a very, very, very long time.
Edit for idiotic grammar... Last edited by pskov : 01-17-2004 at 02:05 PM. |
01-17-2004, 02:20 PM | #97 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
|
Like I said.... in a dreamworld..... but, I think they could light it to the point where it was safe... plus it's Vegas....
Here's what Cleveland looked like this year, under the lights.... Last edited by TLK : 01-17-2004 at 02:22 PM. |
01-17-2004, 07:23 PM | #98 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Sep 2002
|
Is it now a close-oval circruit at Cleveland?
Does NASCAR have a presence at all outside of the US? Could a good circuit be created out of the Las Vegas, with the strip as the "centerpiece" and start/finish line? Do you guys think that an American company would help booster the presence if launch a team under an American brand? |
01-17-2004, 07:29 PM | #99 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Sep 2002
|
Quote:
The other track is Monaco. |
|
01-17-2004, 07:40 PM | #100 | |
Quarterback
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: London, England
|
Quote:
I would put money on night races (or evening races at least) happening within the next decade. They are already discussing it. F1 has noticed that the Brazilian, Canadian and US races get much higher viewing figures than any other races. This is because the races are starting in primetime in Europe, rather than early in the afternoon. These later starts also help boost audience figures in the North American market. Since racing under the lights has been a success in NASCAR and CART, as well as a host of junior series, it is bound to happen in F1 eventually. |
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
|
|