Ok, The NBA Really Blows

[TroyF]

HeyBrad,

Again, Sorry. I'm honestly not trying to be an ass here (though I'm sure you'd disagree)

You followed up your statement with "some" missed calls and compared it to game 2 vs. the Lakers, implying the two were equal. Sorry, but they aren't. Not even close.

The "some" missed calls are easily over ten. (3 Garnett fouls, Kobe's four point play, the two inbound plays, the foul on Wally on the layup attempt by Pargo, the foul on Nestrovich where Kobe ran into him, the non call on Shaq hammering Jackson as time expired on the shot clock, the foul on both Shaq and Horry as they clobbered Peeler in OT (should have been a 3 point play), etc. etc.)

None of the calls were "close" or "borderline". All came in the final minutes of the game or overtime. I won't put words in your mouth. I'll ask you. . . Do you believe the T-Wolves/Lakers game two comes even close to matching that level of one sidedness?

TroyF

[TroyF]

Dola:

Cards,

It's because they know if the reffing continues to be that one sided, they don't have a chance. They worry that the officials will decide that maybe starting "Laker Mode" in the fourth quarter isn't good enough, we need to start it in the third quarter next game.

I believe it is a valid fear.

TroyF

[j51]

I just realized something quite ironic.. with everyone complaining how biased the officiating is, this is the same Timberwolf organization that was caught cheating the salary cap, penalized 5 1st rounders and suspended their GM for a year. The T'Wolves are no saints themselves.

[heybrad]

Troy,

No I dont but that wasnt my point. My point was that all you hear about around here is the calls that went in the Lakers favor. Are you suggesting that none of the calls have gone in the Wolves favor? I'll give you one example and leave it at that. I dont know the exact play or the result except to say that it was in the overtime and Troy Hudson had the ball. There were 2 blatant shoves to remove Pargo from defending him. I'm guessing you didnt see those, because you dont look for calls the other way. Whatever. It doesnt matter at this point. I've already said the Lakers had the benefit of the calls and that didnt seem to be good enough.

Now, before you go replying, reread my first line again. I've already said the Lakers got the benefit of the calls last night. I've also added that I felt there were some calls (provided one example) that I felt the Wolves got away with. Read this again. The Lakers still overall, got the benefit of the calls. Reading your posts suggests that I somehow must state that the Lakers received every call possible in last nights game.

What does it matter at this point. When someone makes a statement that nothing I say should be taken seriously, to me that equals saying that that person is a complete fucking doof. So I guess its not good enough to agree to disagee, which is funny because that actually hasnt really happened in this thread since I've already stated that the Lakers got the benefit of the calls. I'd hate to see what you say about people who competely disagree with you. Are they really, really fucking stupid?

[The Afoci]

Originally posted by j51
I just realized something quite ironic.. with everyone complaining how biased the officiating is, this is the same Timberwolf organization that was caught cheating the salary cap, penalized 5 1st rounders and suspended their GM for a year. The T'Wolves are no saints themselves.

They were just dumb enough to write it down. Everyteam does it. All it was was promising Joe Smith a max contract when his was up.

[TroyF]

HeyBrad,

I guess you don't read my posts either do you? I made the statement that Kobe didn't commit the one foul they actually called on him. You're right. I'm blindly one sided against the Lakers and can't see anything the other way. I did see the push offs on Pargo as well. I believe it was in the overtime period. I didn't think anything of it not because I'm wildly against the Lakers and refuse to see the calls against them, but because both teams were doing that type of thing all night and not getting called.

I like how you want to use the last part of a compound sentence to show your disgust with me. The first part of that sentence is missing from it everytime you quote it. In fact, in the paragraph I state that I have found you to be fair in the past. If leaving that out makes you feel better, so be it.

TroyF

[heybrad]

Originally posted by TroyF
I guess you don't read my posts either do you?

Well, to be honest with you, once you start making ridiculous statements regarding how nothing I say should be believed, yea, I start to tune you out. But hey, if being a dick makes you feel better, so be it.

[TroyF]

Actually, that was my first post in the thread. Again, nice job missing the first part of the sentence and the rest of the paragraph. Whatever makes you feel better.

TroyF

[j51]

Originally posted by The Afoci
They were just dumb enough to write it down. Everyteam does it. All it was was promising Joe Smith a max contract when his was up.

Just shows how crooked the NBA really is, which was my whole sentiment before.

[heybrad]

Actually it was the 4th were you said that, but hey, dont let the facts get in the way of what you're saying.

[TroyF]

Quoting from my first post in this thread:

They don't even try to hide it anymore. The highest form of unintentional comedy I've had in a long time was Kobe whining about his foul call in the overtime (a foul I don't think he committed BTW)

Facts. Just the facts.

TroyF

[Mel Kiper's Hair]

What are we fighting about here?

[heybrad]

What are you even talking about. Did you even read what I said. Thats not even remotely close to what I was talking about. This is stupid now. You live in some fantasy world.

[TroyF]

Mel Kiper's Hair,

I dunno. I'm sure I screwed up in this somewhere, and apologize for it, but I'm not really sure where I screwed up. For a quick synopsis:

1) I, along with many other people, bashed the officiating in the Laker game.

2) Hey Brad posted that the Lakers got some calls, but pointed out that nobody said anything about game 2 of the series or the fact that nobody had mentioned the Bucks/Nets game.

3) Hey Brad pointed also pointed out that we should have watched hockey anyway.

4) I tried to lead off my next post with a joke, which failed miserably and was labeled condescending. There was honestly no attempt at that at all, but it obviously caused hard feelings which I apologized for.

5) After the apology, I post a full paragraph, which but a single line seems to have been read by Hey Brad. The paragraph was meant to have complimented him on his past posts and the line that he read was the second part of a compound sentence which I fully expected him to come back with something like "I'm not that far and have never been that far to one side" or something to the effect. I guess I'm at fault here. The paragraph should have been clearer. Still, I stand by the point of that FULL sentence. Anyone thinking the Lakers had just a few slight breaks in that game is someone I would never want to talk basketball with. Just as anyone who says Ron Powlus is the greatest QB in the history of college football is someone I would have no interest in talking with.

6) Instead of that, the one line caught the attention of him and I suddenly am not listening to anything he says.

7) Then we get into when I said Kobe didn't commit the foul, which happened in my first post of the thread. (this one is factual and can easily be looked up)

-----------------------------------------

I wish I'd wrote the one paragraph differently. I also wished I'd used 8 after the joke so it would have been caught. Oh well, the perils of a discussion in a message board. Sarcasm can't be detected and if someone takes offense to something, you can't see a facial expression to clarify your point. Sometimes it happens I guess. We'll all get over it and move one.
TroyF

[MrBug708]

This thread is hilarious. A bunch of posters who say they don't watch NBA games because of how poor it has gotten, but suddenly they all watched this one particular game.

Of course, they all said that when Kobe scored 39 in a half too, so what do I know?

[Cards4ever]

Troy,

As you know, I don't believe in blaming refs for winning or losing, and I find it hard to believe that every ref in the league is conspiring to fix the playoffs in the Lakers favor. If you really believe that, then why do you watch?

Sometimes the calls go your way, sometimes they don't, life is unfair, the game is over, it's time to move on.

[heybrad]

Troy... I've sent you a PM.

[TroyF]

Cards,

Honestly?

1) I love the game of basketball, despite what the game has become. I play it in my spare time and love watching Kobe, KG, AI, Duncan and some of the other greats do thier thing.

2) It's like comedy hour for me. Kind of like watching the Anna Nicole Smith show, everyone likes train wrecks. I expected the refs to go into "Laker Mode" last night. I think everyone expected it. I don't want to think every ref in the league in conspiring on some Laker "fix", but how else do you explain something like last night? It was horrific on a grand scale. Had the Lakers won the game last night, it would have been one of the greater injustices in sports history. Hyperbole? You can think that if you want, I just know what I saw. We aren't talking about one bad call or a case where this just happened this one time. . . this was a "series" of horrific calls that the national media is talking about.

The only two sports I successfully have stopped watching are baseball and college hockey. (please don't make me do 8 smilies, and congrats to the Wild BTW, they deserved that series, I was cheering for them in game #7) I doubt I'll ever stop watching the NBA entirely. There's always the hope it gets so bad that they have no choice but to correct it.

TroyF

[Mel Kiper's Hair]

This has nothing to do with the NFL draft.

[MrBug708]

When it comes to sports, people will always have their complains

Baseball-Players make too much money and only the higher end teams can compete

Football-Talent is too spread out and no teams can consistantly be a good team

Basketball-Do I need to elaborate?

[Cards4ever]

Troy,

I just think you are setting yourself up for unecessary frustration if you continue to watch. Sports are supposed to be fun, and with your comments, they don't sound too fun to me.

I understand that you want things to be comepletely 100% fair, I just don't see it happening in sports, we could go down the line here from Maddux's strike zone, how they seed teams in the NCAA, superstar calls in the NBA, home team reffing in the NHL, it's everywhere!

[Chief Rum]

Hmm, TroyF will probably be pleased to know that...

1) I didn't watch one second half or overtime minute of this game.
2) I went to bed, in fact, not knowing who won the game.
3) I don't have a clue if any foul calls are legit or not on anyone, and don't care to debate them again (or Game 6 last year, or the oft forgotten Game 5 in the Kings' favor)

You see, like TroyF, I also have a remote. But what TroyF is capable of doing, I am not--I can't switch away from an overtime playoff hockey game, which, God bless them, has precious few commercial breaks (try none for, oh, about 20 minutes of gametime per potential break), especially a Ducks game.

It boggles my mind that anyone would use the remote to change the channel at anything but an intermission, but it takes all types I guess. I highly recommend that all you true sports fans out there stop watching "wrestling on the hardcourt" and switch over to the best game on ice.

To miss any of a 5OT playoff hockey game in favor of the travesty of a basketbvall game being described here is kinda like switching away from Game 6 of the World Series last year to watch an NBA preseason game (and I know some you ignoramus bastards did that ).

Chief Rum

[heybrad]

Just for the record... We were switching to see the Laker score when there was a stoppage of play. But when the game ended we switched over and there was still about 4 min left in the 4th quarter. It would have been a perfect night if the Lakers had pulled it out.

The hockey game was far away the better sporting event to watch. It was kind of a downer when the game ended. We were joking that we wanted to see 6, 7, or 8 OT's.

[TroyF]

Cards,

The question is on what scale? Please don't think of me as some guy throwing back beers in front of the TV with kleenex crying at every injustice in the sports world and cussing the TV out while I do it.

My blood pressure doesn't rise and there is no chance of me coming down with a heart attack while watching any of these games. (now, knowing my luck, I'll die of a heart attack while watching some Scottish soccer league game I don't even care about)

If you ever have a chance to watch a game with me, you'll see the attitude of a scout. This includes the teams I am passionate about. I don't really get into the fist pumping, screaming, or booing that some fans like to do. (I still can't believe some Bronco fans booed Marshall Faulk. How DARE they)

As I said in an earlier post in this thread, the GAME itself was fantastic last night. The fourth quarter and OT was comedy hour. Had I been a normal, die hard T-Wolves fan or Laker hater, I would have had that heart attack I was speaking about. I'd also be calling the talk shows complaining about it.

From a scouts hard, cold, clinical perspective I still believe they are right in their concerns.

TroyF

[Cards4ever]

Originally posted by Chief Rum

To miss any of a 5OT playoff hockey game

I missed one minute, it was in the 5th period of OT

Damn job!

[TroyF]

Chief,

Hey, there is icing and long shift changes. Cut me some slack, will ya? I saw both of the non OT goals live. I saw the game end. In fact I saw every goal that was scored. None of it, BTW, took place during those final 5 minutes or OT of the basketball game.

Cut me some slack, will ya?

Troy

PS: I also watched CSI last while watching the hockey game. I know, I'm going to Dell. . . errr. Hell. ummm... same difference.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by Calis
Agreed, Basketball can sink to the deepest depths in the history of sporting, and I'll still watch it over the NHL playoffs.

Originally posted by Radii
Nah, I complained because it was the first NBA game I've watched this season. Hopefully I'll come to my senses and make it the last. But I sure as hell won't stoop as low as watching hockey!

Originally posted by Noop
Hockey sucks and so does baseball the NBA playoffs is the only thing intresting till football comes around again.

noop

And this is why this will continue. Hopefully this will drive enough of the casual fans away that this has to change but I doubt it. Too many of you just refuse to watch hockey (or just turn off the set altogether) on principle for reasons I have no idea about. Is it too foreign? Too complicated? Not socially acceptable? I have no idea; Please, someone, tell me something other than "it's boring". Or if you do, then tell me how it's any different than a 12-0 NFL game called by that moron John Madden which has 35 seconds between action to say nothing for a game that has now stretched to 3 1/2 hours through excessive commercials? Or this rigged bullshit we witnessed last night.

I know I watched every NBA Finals and a lot of the playoffs in the early-mid 90s, rooting for the Rockets but watching other marquee matchups on NBC and the like. But now, it's different. Last night was the first non-Rockets game I've seen all year and I think I saw more Rockets games this year than all of the games I saw last year put together. And the only reason for that is because more of their games were on tv this year. Last year, I can only think of a few games I saw all last year: a Rockets v Nuggets game on Fox Sports Rocky Mountain and games 6/7 of the Lakers/Kings series but those last two were so fixed, it's unreal. I've seen my games for the year now- maybe if the conference or nba finals go to a game 7, I'll check out a game or two more.

Sure, the refing thing is not new- I've screamed at the top of my lungs that George Karl played a zone defense when he was up in Seattle yet only got 1 or 2 illegal defense calls a game. As an aside, it was funny to see him get his comeuppance last night.

And, Amen to Chief Rum and his points (Just to clarify: the hockey game was at 4th intermission and ended less than a minute into the 5th OT so there was a lot of time to watch the latter parts of that game sandwiched around the hockey game. Also, iirc, the hockey game concluded with about 2 mins to go in regulation in the basketball game).

SI

Originally posted by TroyF
Chief,

PS: I also watched CSI last while watching the hockey game. I know, I'm going to Dell. . . errr. Hell. ummm... same difference.

PS I, too, have to confess to this. I was trying to balance CSI and both hockey games for an hour there at 8 rather than just balancing two hockey games once the second one started at 6:30

[MylesKnight]

Alright, it's now 2-1 T'wolves..

Lakers will win Game 4, that's a given.. If Minnesota takes Game 5 in Minneapolis, this one will go 7, ala Sacramento/LA, Western Conference Finals of a Year Ago. No way do the NBA Higher-Ups let the Lakers go out in 6 in the 1st Round (and yes I did say the NBA Execs)..

If the LAL's are to lose, it will be in 7.. the League needs the Dramatic effect.

Anyone who thinks the NBA doesn't shall I say "prefer" LA to move on in the Playoffs is kidding themselves.. Like I said before, Game 6 of last year's Western Conference Finals showed me just what this League is all about nowadays... and it's not just LA, Laker Fans, once some other dominate team comes around and takes over (preferably for the Execs, one from one of the large markets, might I add - LA, NYC, Chicago) the same situation will exist for them.

As for the reason I still watch, well what else is there to pay attention right now? I'm not a big NHL'er, and the early parts of the MLB Season are hardly what I'd call an absolute must see. I need something to hold me over until the College Football Season (and NFL Season to a lesser degree) begins.

For me, right now it's UCF Baseball, NBA Playoffs and then the NHL in a distant third (although I do enjoy seeing Game 7's and a bit of the Stanley Cup Finals, depending on who's playing).

[WussGawd]

Originally posted by sterlingice
Nothing like getting off the high of watching one of the greatest hockey games I've ever seen to turn to the abortion that is the NBA. This is so sad- is David Stern actually on a small wireless phone with the refs or is it telepathy?

SI

This would be why the NHL playoffs are much better than the NBA playoffs.

[Calis]

sterlingice- I have nothing against Hockey, to be honest I love going to see them in person, mostly minor league. I used to go watch the Wichita Thunder from the CHL play pretty religiously when lived there.

But, I just can't watch it on TV, or the NHL in general. I don't know exactly what it is, I assure you it's not too "foreign", or "complicated" for my 'lil brain to comprehend. It's personal opinion, I'll take corrupt Basketball over fair Hockey, not a knock on hockey, but a compliment to Basketball. I just love the sport, and I can usually carry on the high from March Madness into the NBA playoffs, so there ain't no switching for me!

It's hard to explain, I've come across other non-popular sports in the States that I'll watch frequently now, such as I've become a Soccer fanatic, and am slowly getting into watching Rugby pretty often as well, Hockey just seems so bleh to me, can't really explain it. Personal tastes I guess.

[Chief Rum]

Originally posted by TroyF
Chief,

Hey, there is icing and long shift changes. Cut me some slack, will ya? I saw both of the non OT goals live. I saw the game end. In fact I saw every goal that was scored. None of it, BTW, took place during those final 5 minutes or OT of the basketball game.

Cut me some slack, will ya?

Troy

PS: I also watched CSI last while watching the hockey game. I know, I'm going to Dell. . . errr. Hell. ummm... same difference.

Heh heh, I know, Troy. And I figured you might rip me for not watching the Lakers game. How can I get into another lively debate about the reffing practices of the NBA if I don't watch?

BTW, did anyone notice the Lakers lost...

icing and long shift changes just don't last long enough for me to switch over. But maybe that's me.

As for the bball game still being on, I guess I should have looked. I definitely would have watched the end of a game in a situation like that. But I pretty much plain forgot.

And actually, while the active thought to miss any part of last night's hockey game never entered my mind, I was well aware (and bummed) that I was missing CSI to do so.

So slack given.

Chief Rum

[bamcgee]

why haven't I ever seen a game officiated that poorly in the NCAA tournament? I agree, last night's Laker's game was ridiculous. It can't help but make you wonder about the integrity of the NBA. Kudos to the Wolves for maintaining their composure however.

Last night's game was the first NBA game I've watched on tv this year, and as a fairly indifferent observer I couldn't help but notice how ugly it is to watch the Lakers play. Shaq is an amazing physical force, but he is so ugly to watch. Kobe's brand of selfish me-vs-the-world annoys me, despite his obvious gifts. And Fox, Horry, and the others are without any game. Fox never let go of his man's shirt the entire 4th quarter. Last time I checked, that ain't legal, and then they gave Szerbiak a T when he fought back.

[mrushh]

Australian Rules Football...... 'nuff said.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by Calis
sterlingice- I have nothing against Hockey, to be honest I love going to see them in person, mostly minor league. I used to go watch the Wichita Thunder from the CHL play pretty religiously when lived there.

But, I just can't watch it on TV, or the NHL in general. I don't know exactly what it is, I assure you it's not too "foreign", or "complicated" for my 'lil brain to comprehend.

Sorry, I didn't really mean to imply that but I always hear that excuse from people towards hockey and soccer and I was wondering if there was any credence towards that among the real sports fans here.

I'm kindof the same way about soccer- it's not that I don't understand it (played it in grade and high school)- it's just not very much my thing. Still, I'll occasionally watch a game on Fox Sports Net or, for instance, went to sleep at 7am instead of 5am for the World Cup games last year. Same with basketball, I guess: I'll watch it occasionally for big games but that's it.

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by bamcgee
why haven't I ever seen a game officiated that poorly in the NCAA tournament? I agree, last night's Laker's game was ridiculous. It can't help but make you wonder about the integrity of the NBA. Kudos to the Wolves for maintaining their composure however.

I've seen many an NCAA tourney game which was controlled by the refs, but nothing was as overt as last night. If you want an example, check out the Zona/Arkansas game a few years ago, Final Four game, I think- almost the same thing: that fat bastard Corliss Williamson got the Shaq treatment.

SI

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Seems like we had this talk last year .

[oykib]

Originally posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER
Seems like we had this talk last year .

...the year before, too. Some of us have been having this conversation since the early 90s.