Goodbye, Manny: Ramirez to sit 50 games for PEDs

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Source: Ramirez's substance a sexual enhancer - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

Dear Lord, let him testing positive for Enzyte be true.

I think we can all agree that carrying around a bigger bat than your competitors is definitely an advantage that can't be allowed.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Lathum

very true. I have pretty much completely stopped watching ESPN for that reason.

I had ESPN-News on yesterday while home for a bit, and I turned it off when they flat out admitted that they were going to be non-stop on the Brett Favre story for the next few hours...

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Of course they are going to run it into the ground, but, quite obviously, the best hitter on the team with the best record in baseball... in addition to him being considered a sure thing first ballot Hall of Famer... means its a pretty sizable deal.

That's the whole point. The original comment I responded to claimed it was a big deal on the coasts but a yawnfest to the rest of the country. Uh...no.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

That's the whole point. The original comment I responded to claimed it was a big deal on the coasts but a yawnfest to the rest of the country. Uh...no.

I know... I just think it needs to be reiterated for those individuals.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Two cities in the nation react while the rest of the nation yawns.

no, many are laughing

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Source: Ramirez's substance a sexual enhancer - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

Dear Lord, let him testing positive for Enzyte be true.

ESPN News just reported the drug he tested positive for was a women's fertility drug steroid-users use to help restart their bodies. Bonds, Giambi and others reportedly used it.

[bulletsponge]

maybe he was trying to get pregnant?

[lordscarlet]

This feels like when a disaster occurs.. there are a ton of reports flying about. I think we'll look back later and laugh at some of the accusations. Someone is bound to hit the right information, but there's no way all of these stories are true.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

ESPN News just reported the drug he tested positive for was a women's fertility drug steroid-users use to help restart their bodies. Bonds, Giambi and others reportedly used it.

No wonder he had Bitch Tits

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

This feels like when a disaster occurs.. there are a ton of reports flying about. I think we'll look back later and laugh at some of the accusations. Someone is bound to hit the right information, but there's no way all of these stories are true.

bulletsponge.com reports that Manny was obsessed with getting pregnant...told teammates every day about what life would be once baby was on the way...

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

bulletsponge.com reports that Manny was obsessed with getting pregnant...told teammates every day about what life would be once baby was on the way...

I can picture this, and it makes me laugh. Thanks.

[Karlifornia]

Sweeeeeeet. The Giants should take a couple prospects for a big bat now, and make up some ground.

[Fidatelo]

I think its pretty safe to assume that almost every big name guy in baseball either is still or once was on juice. Sad.

I think the same thing applies to football.

Not sure where NBA and NHL fall. The fan in me wants to think that most of those guys are clean, but the realist in me fears that those leagues simply have inadequate testing to have ever made it appear to be the issue it is in NFL/MLB.

When it comes to sports, I wish I was 10 again

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

maybe he was trying to get pregnant?

Manny being Manny .

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Source: Ramirez's substance a sexual enhancer - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

Dear Lord, let him testing positive for Enzyte be true.

If this is (on some odd chance) true, it would at least explain why he went to a private physician rather than a club doctor for this particular legitimate medical problem. Not really the sort of issue you'd want bantered around the clubhouse.

Then again, you wouldn't want it bantered around by the national media, either...so it looks like a big FAIL on all counts.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I think its pretty safe to assume that almost every big name guy in baseball either is still or once was on juice. Sad.

I think the same thing applies to football.

We'll probably find out for sure in the next 10 years but I think football's steroid test program has been far superior. Maybe everyone is on The Clear or some other undetectable steroid but as big as NFL players are, you still don't see the cases you saw in the '80s of guys who were clearly juicing.

We know the effects of steroids in football in the '70s and '80s from the steroid-induced medical issues they all have now. If guys are getting cancer and mental breakdowns in their 40s and 50s, we'll have a good idea how juiced the last decade or so has really been.

But Manny testing for a fertility treatment drug ... priceless.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

That really has nothing to do with whether this is a story that only NY/Boston and LA care about, while the rest of us think it's no big deal and too much is being made of it. Whether it gets run into the ground from this point forward is pretty much a given, isn't it? That's ESPN's MO these days.

I'm curious to see how MLB Network deals with this. So far this season, ESPN has been dead to me for baseball coverage because MLBN just blows it away. I'd like to see how MLB Tonight deals with it.

SI

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I'm curious to see how MLB Network deals with this. So far this season, ESPN has been dead to me for baseball coverage because MLBN just blows it away. I'd like to see how MLB Tonight deals with it.

SI

To those of us you don't have MLBN, report back to us.

[RainMaker]

The fertility drug is used all the time by steroid users. It helps eliminate the side effects like your balls getting smaller. There is no chance he was using it for anything other than supplementing for his steroid usage.

The other news is that Canseco is right about another player he called out. The guy ended up being the most honest person in this whole fiasco.

[Ksyrup]

What would absolutely destroy Manny is if it turned out he was on the 2004 list that ARod was on.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

What would absolutely destroy Manny is if it turned out he was on the 2004 list that ARod was on.

I'm a Sox fan, and I have no reason to doubt that he was juicing back then. I think he's already destroyed.

[Ksyrup]

Well, I'm just seeing enough people willing to buy the sex excuse that if it was proven he did something back then, that excuse (which I find too coincidental to not be BS) would absolutely crumble.

[MikeVic]

But I think he has to take the boner pills because he was on steroids... right?

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

if that's all it is, i have no problem with it. sure, boner pills may be on the list, but it's not like they're hardcore steroids

Like this. How could you be so willing to buy that excuse, given the steroids ties of the underlying drugs?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

He wouldn't be taking a woman's fertility drug for any reason other than to supplant steroid use. That would be why it's on the banned list.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

I'm a Sox fan, and I have no reason to doubt that he was juicing back then. I think he's already destroyed.

The only guy I would bet on being clean from that team is maybe Curt Schilling.

But that's true of any team, World Series winner or not.

Still, I have no problem blacklisting any of the idiots that were actually caught, suspending them for life, or keeping them out of the HOF. That's the risk you take as a cheater.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Like this. How could you be so willing to buy that excuse, given the steroids ties of the underlying drugs?

i didn't see it was a women's fertility drug before i posted my comment. once i read that i went back and deleted my comment because it obviously doesn't apply.

[molson]

And once again, for the millionth time, the player/agent refuse to take any responsibility. Just once I'd like to see a guy come clean and apologize, and not admit to the only the minimum that's been proved so far.

It's a 50-day suspension either way. Wouldn't Clemens/Bonds/etc have much better reputations today if they just told the truth?

Ramirez and Boras are apparently claiming there was a legitmate purpose here. Is that even possible?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Ramirez and Boras are apparently claiming there was a legitmate purpose here. Is that even possible?

If it restarts testosterone for steroid users then it seems plausible it could also jumpstart testosterone production for someone with another problem.

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If it restarts testosterone for steroid users then it seems plausible it could also jumpstart testosterone production for someone with another problem.

What Jon said. I seem to remember in the relatively recent past (2008 Tour de France? 2008 Olympics?) that some high-level athlete tested positive after using Viagra.

Edit to add: Ok, I take that back. I did some Googl'ing and it seems that what I read in '08 was that the WADA is evaluating if Viagra could be considered a PED, given that it increases bloodflow, etc.

/tk

[Fidatelo]

Even if there is a plausibly legit reason for whatever he was taking, it doesn't matter. Covering up steroids is the _most_ plausible reason when taken in context of his career.

Meh, whatever. Just another nail in baseball's coffin in regards to my enjoyment of that sport.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I would say that Occam's Razor drives my thinking on this.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by miked

Yeah, before we proclaim him the next Giambi or ARoid, it's worth seeing what he actually tested positive for. I have a hard time believing a 36 year old vet who already signed his big deal would be so stupid as to take roids during the season when you know they are testing. But he is Manny...

This is the internet there is no thinking before acting.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Even if there is a plausibly legit reason for whatever he was taking, it doesn't matter. Covering up steroids is the _most_ plausible reason when taken in context of his career.

Sure, I was just curious whether the Manny/Boras lie was just impossible on its face.

[RainMaker]

Do some research on the drug guys, it's only used by steroid users when cycling off. Just about every major steroid user and bodybuilder uses it. To defend this is ludicruos. There is no reason to use this drug at all.

[Ksyrup]

It doesn't matter if there is a plausible excuse or even if that excuse is the truth. The fact is, he tested positive AND it is for a drug used by steroid users AND he apparently didn't even attempt to clear it like the asthma/ADD drug users did, if indeed there is a legit use for it. He's simply guilty, just pick the reason why.

[stevew]

Im still waiting for them to get Pujols. It's going to happen some day.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by molson

And once again, for the millionth time, the player/agent refuse to take any responsibility. Just once I'd like to see a guy come clean and apologize, and not admit to the only the minimum that's been proved so far.

It's a 50-day suspension either way. Wouldn't Clemens/Bonds/etc have much better reputations today if they just told the truth?

Ramirez and Boras are apparently claiming there was a legitmate purpose here. Is that even possible?

I'm sure there will also be an apology, not apologizing for the behavior but apologizing for all of us. It will be something like "I'm sorry for all those who misunderstood what happened".

SI

[stevew]

dola-

was there some reason why he didn't sign till really late this year. like I dunno if he may have been dodging a test or something, since he wasn't on a roster all offseason.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

It doesn't matter if there is a plausible excuse or even if that excuse is the truth. The fact is, he tested positive AND it is for a drug used by steroid users AND he apparently didn't even attempt to clear it like the asthma/ADD drug users did, if indeed there is a legit use for it. He's simply guilty, just pick the reason why.

I don't disagree. I just find the Manny/Boras comments kind of insulting, and they would be particularly hillarious if there wasn't even a possibility of technical truth to them.

Ya, a drug policy has to be based on 100% responsibilty for test results, otherwise its useless. Just put your trainer in charge and don't ask any questions, and don't have any knowledge. If you go to the bathroom and leave your water unattended, and someone spikes with with a banned substance, you're STILL responsible. There can't be any excuses.

[Radii]

Bill Simmons: Manny Ramirez's positive drug test makes the Sports Guy confront his worst nightmare - ESPN

Best Simmons article I've read in years.

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, you know, I've been thinking about Papi in this respect for a while now. It's so easy to see people who came and went through 100 years of baseball to explain away guys like him or Brady Anderson, etc., but then you counter that with the fact that a lot of guys tried to get an edge wherever they could over the last 15-20 years, and it's hard not to think of these guys as tainted.

The fact that it took the players association this long to realize what effect all of this would or could have on them is hard to believe. In fact, they still don't really seem to fully grasp it.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Yeah, you know, I've been thinking about Papi in this respect for a while now. It's so easy to see people who came and went through 100 years of baseball to explain away guys like him or Brady Anderson, etc., but then you counter that with the fact that a lot of guys tried to get an edge wherever they could over the last 15-20 years, and it's hard not to think of these guys as tainted.

The fact that it took the players association this long to realize what effect all of this would or could have on them is hard to believe. In fact, they still don't really seem to fully grasp it.

They still vigoursly fight drug testing at every collective bargaining negotiations. They frame the advances there as a concession, in exchange for which they should get back something else.

You'd think it would be something both sides would be in favor of, but maybe the players are right - it doesn't look like business has been negatively impacted.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Radii

Bill Simmons: Manny Ramirez's positive drug test makes the Sports Guy confront his worst nightmare - ESPN

Best Simmons article I've read in years.

I liked it. He's still a good writer when he sticks to sports.

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by molson

They still vigoursly fight drug testing at every collective bargaining negotiations. They frame the advances there as a concession, in exchange for which they should get back something else.

You'd think it would be something both sides would be in favor of, but maybe the players are right - it doesn't look like business has been negatively impacted.

In theory, it's not their concern whether the bottom line is impacted unless it affects them. That should be the owners' concern. Tho, again, if you badly damage the product, then they're all impacted.

But they won't even admit it's in their constituency's best interest to not have drugs floating around. That's what's so warped about their view.

SI

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Let's be fair. MBBF was obnoxious before the Royals success- just ask anyone in the video game and political threads

SI

Winner.

[RainMaker]

Two things:

1) While we all like to trash these guys for steroid use, I personally would have probably done it too. The odds of these guys getting caught was extremely slim and their usage accounted for tens of millions of dollars. I mean Manny has potentially extended his career by years and instead of breaking down at this age is earning $20+ million a season. If you were a utility guy making the league minimum and could bolster your homers by 10 a season and earn a nice fat check for it, wouldn't you?

2) This was the basis of an article on ESPN awhile ago on this hypothetical scenario. But with all these steroids, I think it could happen. A career minor leaguer suing MLB. With no policy in place and one that doesn't really have much bite, the league is almost condoning steroids. They knew players were using it and didn't stop it. So could a career minor leaguer make the case that he would have been in the pros, made a few million if it hadn't been for steroids. That he essentially couldn't play in the majors unless he took illegal steroids. Not sure how it would turn out, but a creative lawyer could make a hell of a case. Imagine going into your job and the boss saying "the guys on cocaine work much harder than you so we're going to let you go".

[Crapshoot]

PS, I really don't care that much. I liked Manny before, I like him now, even if he plays for the Tommy Lasorda Bastard Brigade.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

You'd think it would be something both sides would be in favor of, but maybe the players are right - it doesn't look like business has been negatively impacted.

I don't like when people use that argument that because attendance and ratings are good, no one cares about steroids. Business is good because we love the game of baseball. It's a game we played as kids and grew up with. There are no players bigger than the sport.

I think we've seen over the years that the business of baseball has little do with their decisions and more to do with the passion of fans for the sport.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

1) While we all like to trash these guys for steroid use, I personally would have probably done it too. The odds of these guys getting caught was extremely slim and their usage accounted for tens of millions of dollars. I mean Manny has potentially extended his career by years and instead of breaking down at this age is earning $20+ million a season. If you were a utility guy making the league minimum and could bolster your homers by 10 a season and earn a nice fat check for it, wouldn't you?

Then just come out and say it. "I juiced, I got caught, but that was the best way to earn millions, so I'll take my suspension like a man." Baseball has the same "Thin Blue Line" issue you keep bashing cops for...