Werewolf XVII: Return of the Wolves

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Just wanted to verify what is taking place today:
1.) No day action
2.) Night action (Night 0, no kill)

Is this accurate? No movement towards any kind of lynching until tomorrow?

Hmmmm, this is unlike you not reading carefully enough. A mistake or a wolf already trying to muddy the waters?

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

ROLES HAVE BEEN SENT OUT. Cupid, you pick two players who are "lovers". Seer, you may view a player in Night(0). There will be no kills in Night(0). Voting begins on Wednesday, deadline will be at 8:00 PM EST.

[hoopsguy]

I'm all for trying to put people on the defensive early, but conjecturing that I'm trying to muddy anything by asking the moderator to clarify seems a little od.

In fairness, perhaps I was guilty of not reading carefully enough. I posed the question after re-reading post #1 to make sure I understood all of the roles for this game and did not assimilate the information in Post #39 (which you quoted) at that time.

[hoopsguy]

Since we are on a no-lynch day, lets take the conversation in a different direction. Has anyone come up with new strategies over our werewolf hiatus that may work better for Day 1 activities? It is easily my least favorite day of werewolf games since we are basically flying blind.

[st.cronin]

This is my first game, so I don't know anything about strategy, or really even the rules. I would appreciate tips or primers.

[pennywisesb]

Villager checking in. Glad to be playing WW again, its been awhile.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm all for trying to put people on the defensive early, but conjecturing that I'm trying to muddy anything by asking the moderator to clarify seems a little od.

Did you see the smiley after my comment? Just poking fun at you, that's all.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

This is my first game, so I don't know anything about strategy, or really even the rules. I would appreciate tips or primers.

Basically there are two phases:

We vote to lynch someone during the day phase based upon suspicions, etc.

The wolves attack at night and can kill one of us. The seer can also choose to "view" someone of his choosing to see if they are a wolf or villager. The problem with this is that once the seer determines who is a wolf and comes out and says it, it makes him a target that night.

This is basically like Survivor on the internet boards. People will lie and backstab in order to win. If we kill all of the wolves, we win. If the wolves come to a 1:1 ratio with us, then they win. There are certain variations of the game, like this man-love Cupid stuff.

[hoopsguy]

Jumping on what RA said, the fundamental premise for me in WW is that you are playing a game of incomplete information. Information comes from day/night actions and from the postings of the participants. Villagers try to use the info to get a clearer picture of how to act, while werewolves try to misdirect or dampen the flow of information.

The strategies for the game vary over the course of the game as more information becomes available. This is why the first day is tough, because there is so little information to act upon when making a decision to lynch. Ultimately, even lynching an innocent can provide some information because you can now review that person's posts knowing that he was working with you (if you are a villager, that is).

If you have a special role, then you should use your powers to ensure the survival of the villagers to the best of your ability. This is not as easy as it seems; there are instances of a Duke role saving a werewolf to kill a villager and seers getting invalid information depending on the nuances of the game.

As the game progresses a villager begins to compile his own list of who he trusts and who he does not trust. A villager does not have the ability to send PMs to other villagers (if they want to maintain the integrity of the game, that is) so they have to figure out how to work their strategy in a public forum. If they keep their information/suspicions close to the vest then they run the risk of being lynched themselves or devoured by the wolves before they are able to supply this information to the group. Nothing is worse for the villagers than losing their seer on Night 1 before he can reveal a wolf - unless it is losing the seer because his lover is lynched ...

The wolves have the ability to communicate with each other, so they can act in concert in terms of voting. However, they may wish to avoid doing so since the voting patterns are public knowledge. But situations arise where their hand may be forced (try to save one of their own vs letting him go to keep low profile?) or they may embrace a game-within-the-game concept (why would I do something so obvious?).

There is a litte bit of a "win the crowd" element in the game as well - if you get people to buy into you as someone with a plan then you are likely to avoid lynching. But this is a double-edged sword, since the best laid villager plans often result in a lynched villager and heightened suspicion of the former "leader".

Where I was heading initially with the Day 1 strategy was to see if people had strong thoughts on a good way to act with incomplete information. Below are some of the ideas that have been used in earlier games:
1.) Vote for the guy who hasn't posted - even if he is innocent, he wasn't around to help identify the guilty
2.) Spread votes across a small set of candidates, force them to defend themselves
3.) Random number generator

[SackAttack]

Yar.

[RPI-Fan]

Checking in (villager, of course).

[RPI-Fan]

What about the possibility of not lynching anyone on Day 1?

Haven't really let the consequences run through my mind, but I'm not seeing tons of negatives to it, necessarily.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Here is my list of Players: (If you're not in here and you signed up, tell me)
SackAttack
st.cronin
kingfc22
Raiders Army
Passacaglia
hoopsguy
RPI-Fan
ardent enthusiast
pennywisesb
SnDvls
McSweeny
Schmidty
SirFozzie
dubb93
Barkeep49

If noone else is joining, then I'm going to give out roles on Tuesday Morning, we can start with Night (0) on Tuesday Night and Day (1) on Wednesday Morning. I edited the rules a bit, so please read and re-read them.

If the 24th through 27th are off, I'm good -- add me.

[McSweeny]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

What about the possibility of not lynching anyone on Day 1?

Haven't really let the consequences run through my mind, but I'm not seeing tons of negatives to it, necessarily.

it depends on how many werewolves there are in the game i think. If the odds are good enough it might be worth lynching someone at random. If we have something like a 1 in 10 shot, then we might be better off leaving everyone alive

[hoopsguy]

During the Day Phase, everyone votes to lynch one player. In case of a tie, the player who got his first vote last will be lynched.

I didn't include that in the list of common Day 1 concepts because it didn't apply to this one. There are some games that require a certain number of votes to lynch someone, but it sounds like this one would invoke a lynch even if there was a 1-1 tie with everyone else abstaining.

With that in mind, not voting is generally bad form. Those voting patterns are important information later in the game when running "villager or wolf" scenarios.

[st.cronin]

What is the ratio of wolves to villagers?

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

What is the ratio of wolves to villagers?

Unknown, but typically 1:4-ish (so, in this case probably around 3 wolves, 13 players).

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

What is the ratio of wolves to villagers?

anywhere from 1:15 to 7:9.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

If a player is lynched, his Primary Role is revealed, if a Cunning wolf is killed, he will only be viewed as a Villager.

I take it from this that roles are supposed to be secret?

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I take it from this that roles are supposed to be secret?

Yes, but if you're a wolf, feel free to share!

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

What about the possibility of not lynching anyone on Day 1?

Haven't really let the consequences run through my mind, but I'm not seeing tons of negatives to it, necessarily.

A big negative is that on Day 2 we're still essentially at Day 1 and the wolves get an extra day to plan and kill someone.

[Schmidty]

I'm here.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

A big negative is that on Day 2 we're still essentially at Day 1 and the wolves get an extra day to plan and kill someone.

I cant stress enough that a no-lynch is a horrible idea...all it will do is put us a man down and make the game harder(man down from night kill). Even if it is completely random i think we need to lynch someone(You miss 100% of the shots you dont take)

[SirFozzie]

Yo. I'm awake..

[dubb93]

Villager checking in. Hopefully the game goes well b/c I really want to see what Barkeep has up his sleeve for the next game.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Er, anyway, if I didn't make the list of players, I'd be willing to serve as an alternate.

[Barkeep49]

I agree that voting on the first day is essential. I just hope that whoever it is realizes that there is nothing personal involved in it. It sucks, but one shouldn't take offense at it.

[kingfc22]

Late villager checking in.

[Barkeep49]

Oh and lest rumors get started: My daytime availability has recently dropped down dramatically and so I will likely be a first thing in the morning and right before the deadline poster for much of this game.

[dubb93]

Since Barkeep is annoucing his availability. I'll remind everybody that I'm not usually online untill 2-3ish in the afternoon. I know it has gotten me voted off before, I'd like to avoid being voted off for that reason this time around

[SirFozzie]

Same here: I work 9 PM-7 AM now, and having oral surgery on Thursday Morning (getting all my wisdom teeth pulled).. so I may not be watching this thread 24/7

[hoopsguy]

Good luck with that Fozzie, had it done a couple of years back and it was not a lot of fun.

I'll have limited availability tomorrow during the day but schedule goes back to normal Wednesday.

[RPI-Fan]

Just to get this on the table now (I was actually going to post this even if others didn't):

-Tied up 6am-9pm tomorrow, will check in tomorrow night.
-Work 6am-3pm Weds, will check in after that.

[SackAttack]

Amusing how paranoid everybody has gotten about first-day votes.

I wonder if that has anything to do with kingfc22 duking the investigator a while back?

[McSweeny]

i'll be on around noon-ish all week long, and i'll be on everyone now and then this weekend

[saldana]

shit...i was off the site for a couple days (playing civ4) and i missed the signups!! oh well, i would probably have gotten whacked on day one after what i did last time i played good luck everyone, i will be in next time

[Schmidty]

I'm going to be hit-and-miss the next few days, as I have a lot of things going on at home. Just to let everyone know (hoopsguy), I will probably leave my browser open to with this thread displayed, so don't think I'm necessarily there at the moment.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Simple game, no? Gauging interest. Just post below if you want in.

:Primary Roles: (Each player is guaranteed to one of these roles)
Werewolf - You belong to a pack of werewolves. You may choose to kill one person each night.
Villager - You are a villager, and your sole purpose is to survive.
Seer - You are the seer, and can view the true identity of a man or wolf. Each night you may choose to view the true identity of one player.
Herbalist - You possess a bag of wolfsbane, the deadliest herb known to all wolfkind. Each night, you may choose to protect someone by slipping wolfsbane upon him. You may not choose someone two nights in a row. You may, however, choose yourself.
Duke - You are the Duke, disguised as a petty farmer, as a one-time action you may choose to prevent one person from being lynched and instead have someone else be the target of the lynching.
Witness - As a one-time skill, you may choose to view the killing of an innocent during the night. If noone is killed, then you waste your view.

:Supplementary Roles, Villager/Seer/Herbalist/Duke/Witness: (You may or may not be given these roles, note that there could be one or more of these)
Cursed - You are cursed, and have been so since birth. If bitten by a werewolf, you will join their ranks. Of course, you will not know that you are cursed until you are bitten by a wolf.
Blessed - You are blessed, and have been so since birth. If bitten by a werewolf, you will be granted a second chance at life. You do not know that you are blessed until bitten by a werewolf... note that this does not save you from lynching.
Cupid - In a previous life, you were Cupid. In the beginning of the game, you may assign two players to be "lovers". You may not choose yourself.

:Supplementaty Roles, Werewolves: (You may or may not be given these roles, note that there could be one or more of these)
Brutal - You are a vicious wolf, and if lynched, you may choose to bring one person of your choice to the grave with you.
Cunning - You are a deceitful wolf, and if lynched, you will not reveal yourself as a werewolf upon death.

:Supplementary Roles, All: (You may or may not be given these roles, note that there could be one or more of these)
Lover - You are fraternally and eternally bonded with your "lover", upon the death of your lover, you shall die as well. You know who your "lover" is, and vice versa. However, you may not PM each other.

Rules:

There will be two phases, a Day Phase and a Night Phase.

During the Day Phase, everyone votes to lynch one player. In case of a tie, the player who got his first vote last will be lynched.

During the Night Phase, all players with Night actions may choose to do their actions, or do nothing at all. Only one Werewolf will PM me the Werewolves' choice of slaughter, and that Werewolf will do the killing.

Note that a supplementary role may be mixed with a primary role, so we might have a "Seer/Blessed" in the game, or a "Duke/Cursed". The effect of being Cursed is that you lose your primary role and become a werewolf instead.

If a player is lynched, his Primary Role is revealed, if a Cunning wolf is killed, he will only be viewed as a Villager.

Deadlines are still tentative.

Werewolves win if they reach a 1:1 ratio with the villagers. Villagers win if all werewolves are dead.

Players: (If you're not in here and you signed up, tell me)
SackAttack
st.cronin
kingfc22
Raiders Army
Passacaglia
hoopsguy
RPI-Fan
ardent enthusiast
pennywisesb
SnDvls
McSweeny
Schmidty
SirFozzie
dubb93
Barkeep49

Well, im pretty much around most of the time barring classes on monday and wednesday around the deadline might get me killed...

Anyway, anyone have any idea of where to go with the first day? Im a villager and dont have a lover, but i cant reccomend any lover reveal that they have one...from what neon said the only way a lover couple could be villager-warewolf is if the cupid picks them...that would imply the starting couples were all villager villager...thats like a jackpot for wolves, so if you have one dont hint at it or let on about it as the wolves will kill you in a heartbeat.

I think by far the most intersting new addition is the decieving trait for wolves, which means if and when we kill him we will think hes a villager...im deadly afraid of what they might cook up to mess with our minds by sacrificing this guy....

As for villagers, witness should wait a few days in my mind, herbalist needs to be guessing random(use your own discretion on who would be a good target for the wolves...like very active smart players)

Question for neon, if the herbalist sprinkles on a warewolf, does it have any negative effect?

[Neon_Chaos]

Blade: No, it won't.

[SirFozzie]

I think the Cupid picks randomly.. so he (I don't think we have any females) could pair up a villager and a werewolf, or if the person was REALLY lucky.. Werewolf-werewolf.

Go with whatever, just realize that anything over the top/stupid will mark you down the line.

[SackAttack]

That's why I figure there has to be four wolves, Foz.

Because in the event that two werewolves were paired as lovers and one was lynched, the other would die. With two wolves, that ends the game instantly, and with three, that leaves only one. It would be a significant setback for them.

So I gotta figure we're dealing with probably four. That way if the unexpected does happen, there's still two wolves for us to root out.

[kingfc22]

Anyone have a hunch yet?

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Anyone have a hunch yet?

I thought there were werewolves only in this game, not any additional monsters like hunchbacks.

[pennywisesb]

Sorry I haven't been around lately, it got crazy at work yesterday and then I didn't really get a chance to get online last night. I should, however, be on and off throughout the day today.

[hoopsguy]

I'm bummed to see that there hasn't been any real conversation up to this point. I realize that first day sucks, but if we don't get any kind of conversation going then we end up 100% random (instead of 80-90% random, maybe?) on our lynch selection. Which makes it easier to hide a vote - huge advantage to wolves.

I'm hoping to be back online later this afternoon for a decent block of time prior to the vote.

As a general note, I know that several of us (me included) posted about availability issues for today and onwards. I would be cautious as the game moves on if people continue to have last-minute issues preventing them from contributing to the conversation. There have been several cases of wolves trying to keep a low-profile by posting about their real life commitments keeping them from contributing as much as they might like. This isn't meant to try and weed out the people who have activities beyond our message board, but make sure to hold people accountable for their votes (or lack thereof) throughout the game. Villagers generally want to play an active role in their team winning, not let the other villagers figure it out for them.

[kingfc22]

Vote McSweeny

Maybe this will start up some conversation.

[hoopsguy]

Vote just to vote or some intuition/reason/unnatural hatred behind it?

[Schmidty]

Yeah, what was the basis of that vote?

[McSweeny]

don't we wait for someone to get eaten first? then lynch someone?

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Yeah, what was the basis of that vote?

We have NOTHING to go on right now and nobody is going to start talking unless some people start throwing out votes. Maybe a wolf might slip up trying to protect somebody or we'll see some bandwagoning.

I figured a vote, albiet a random one, would start some conversation. That is all.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

We have NOTHING to go on right now and nobody is going to start talking unless some people start throwing out votes. Maybe a wolf might slip up trying to protect somebody or we'll see some bandwagoning.

I figured a vote, albiet a random one, would start some conversation. That is all.

Well then, I guess you're a brave man.