06-29-2005, 12:22 AM | #51 | |||||||||||
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And Abizaid isn't exactly an unbiased observer is he? I learn not to trust what the government says. Hell, the Mission was Accomplished according to the government over a year ago. Quote:
And won't it be interesting to see how Islamic-based this Constitution comes out, or whether that'll be the next stumbling block before these groups seperate again and go after each other's throats. If they participate in the next election, be prepared for more Islamists in the Parliament. Quote:
Standing targets? How about taking the fight to the insurgents by doing more extensive searches in areas where they have continually targeted? More boots on the ground gives us a better chance of finding the hiding places. Quote:
If the big threat is in the ME, then why do we need to replace troops that were in Germany, for example? The problem is that we don't have enough troops for Iraq and Afghanistan by themselves. That is why we are continuing to lose big chunks of Afghanistan to warloads and fundamentalists. And bin Laden is around that area, FFS!!!! Quote:
"Little" pffft. It'll take a decade, if not more. We dismantled the Iraqi army and then tried to create our own and they can't do anything without US troops. Quote:
And will you be saying the same thing 2 years from now? And 2 years after that? And 2 years after that? Quote:
So your solution is the quickly leave during the night so they won't realize we are gone until there is no trace of us? Quote:
Please, we were supposed to know where we were after the 1st Elections. We were supposed to have the Iraqi forces already doing most of the stuff by this point. We MISS benchmark by benchmark. Didn't the initials elections have to be postponed a couple times before we could actually pull them off? And even then, you had massive groups not participating? Quote:
LOL! Yes, how many years from now? The US basically adopted the laws it existed under (English common law), Iraq is going from having no history of democratic government to functioning democracy in how long now? I doubt we'll still be there by the time Iraq reaches that stage. I wouldn't be surprised if a strongman took executive power in Iraq with an elected parliament underneath him, in order to get a functioning government.
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06-29-2005, 12:27 AM | #52 |
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While Isquiddi's taste in movie's is questionable at best. AT BEST. Wise is he here and right.
There is still some good in him... I can feel it.
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06-29-2005, 12:33 AM | #53 |
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Since I love "Field of Dreams", then since my taste in movies is questionable, I guess that must mean to like it indicates a deficient taste... do you like that movie, HB?
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06-29-2005, 01:04 AM | #54 |
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some of you guys early in this thread really come off as left wing nutjobs. Please can't we let the right wing guys come off as the crazys on this board??
I strongly dislike the 9/11 references and the thinly veiled statements that come across(to me at least) as intentionally trying to blur the line between Al Qaeda and Iraq, two very different things. When Bush was talking about where the insurgents were coming into Iraq from the very first country he named was Saudi Arabia. Does that have any hidden meanings? Aside from trying to make Iraq equivalent to the war on terror(which is a big idealogical difference between pro/anti war folks I know, so there is no need in my mind to get into that argument again), I had no problem with the address. I disagreed heavily with the invasion of Iraq and believe that every fact discovered in the last year has proven my fears about the war right. But at the same time I'm not about to toss out the words quagmire and vietnam. Since we went there and did what we did, we have to finish the job, and I have no problem with anything Bush said about how we're going about finishing the job. I would also make a small side comment about the force with which Cheney's "Death Throes" comment is being cleaned up and corrected. Pretty impressive stuff, Cheney is going to be like Dan Qualye soon, they're going to have to keep him away from anything of any substance... the guy is just creepy. Finally, that was a good presentation by Bush. In terms of public speaking, he did quite well, it was one of his better performances, he rarely(if at all?) mis-spoke, his nervous texas laugh didn't come out very often, and he spoke very clearly and naturally. |
06-29-2005, 01:36 AM | #55 |
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One thing I noticed is that most in the crowd were 0-4 (Major) and above .
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06-29-2005, 01:41 AM | #56 |
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I think it's still too early in this process to be able to give a definitive date for a pull-out. It comes down to needing to give the leadership of the country over to the Iraqis and see what they are capable of handling when they run the show. Right now, we are running the show and I don't think the insurgency will slow down until we transition from "occupiers" to "reinforcements" in Iraq. There is still a lot of propoganda in Iraq that states we are trying to take over their country and torture/kill their citizens. Once we hand over power to Iraqis, that propoganda will start to be less effective.
So, the plan I would advocate (and think Bush is doing - to a point) is to continue to train Iraqis, make sure this transition of power happens and (secretly) plan on pulling troops back home at around mid 2006 - assuming all goes well with the elections in late 05. At that point, I would think the fact that the Iraqis have setup the beginnings of their own government will start people believing that US is not there to torture and rule them - but simply to provide extra security until they can handle it on their own. That will limit the effectiveness of the propoganda by the insurgents and should help the Iraqis turn the corner from a security standpoint. But, if I am wrong, we will have to re-evaluate a year from now and see what other options we have. Still, I think this plan makes some sense and I haven't seen another that would do any better. Last edited by Arles : 06-29-2005 at 01:45 AM. |
06-29-2005, 04:02 AM | #57 | |
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06-29-2005, 04:29 AM | #58 |
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Now, I'm a political moderate but I have to say, W. has zero credibility with me. He's an inept chimpanzee (and looks the part) who can't even speak proper English, is killing the education system with his No Child Left Behind Act (anyone see a link here?), and has no concept of international or military strategy.
Now granted, I didn't care for Clinton's foreign policy because I thought he was too weak, but at least he had defensible reasons for his tactics. The last president I respected at all was George H. Bush. It's sad how tepid our pool of political talent has been in the last eight years. Maybe things will be better by 2008.
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06-29-2005, 08:51 AM | #59 | ||
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?? Both ABC & Fox News reported that the White House advance team instigated the one episode of in-speech applause. Quote:
1. The Army is having much trouble reaching its recruiting goals. Since you believe in this war, and are an unmarried young man, will you enlist? 2. Explain to me how us being in Iraq keeps terrorists from attacking the U.S., especially in light of the numerous Al-Qaida attacks worldwide, post-9/11. |
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06-29-2005, 08:56 AM | #60 | ||
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Oh? Quote:
Also, I think you underestimate the amount of effort that went into winning WWII. |
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06-29-2005, 08:58 AM | #61 | |
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Thanks for the link & further explanation. Chalk one up for Dutch here: we've got the media (ABC in particular) spinning one way, and the White House staffers pushing the other. |
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06-29-2005, 09:00 AM | #62 | |
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I applaud you for standing up for your principles, then. You can have my respect for that. |
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06-29-2005, 09:08 AM | #63 | ||
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Why, then, would the Iraqi Prime Minister say the following: Quote:
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06-29-2005, 09:12 AM | #64 | |
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While I feel "Field of Dreams" is a bit overrated, it's still a good movie. The mere fact that you like some movies that are actually goes nowhere in proving that your tastes are anything but deficient. Like the old saying goes: "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut (or two)."
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06-29-2005, 09:14 AM | #65 |
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ridiculous to assume that there is ANY date in the future where we can assuredly say, "we'll be out by then." Who knows what might happen. Ridiculous to assume that and attack the admin. on that basis as opposed to the plethora of other opportunities, if you so seek them out.
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06-29-2005, 09:34 AM | #66 | |
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It was also ridiculous for JFK to say we would put a man on the moon by the end of the 1960s. But it was a date that was thrown out as a goal, and it gave people something to strive for. For any kind of endeavor, you have to have milestones and checkpoints, to measure your progress towards the final goal. For almost any project, the projected end date is almost always arbitrary, and that is why you have the milestones and checkpoints to see how you are progressing. With the Iraq situation, it seems there are no ways of checking the progress at all. You have the VP saying, that the end of the resistance is near, the SoD saying it could be up to 20 years, you have the Iraqi PM saying 2 to 3 years, and you have the Pres saying "as long as it takes". I think that people would be feeling a lot better about the situation if there were concrete, defineable points laid out, that can be followed. Instead, what we are getting is "no troops were killed today" or "we graduated 15 Iraqi policeme n without their graduation ceremony being car bombed". I would like the question to be asked of the president why his views on setting timelines for troop use has changed so drastically between now, and when he was running for president.
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06-29-2005, 09:47 AM | #67 | ||||||
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But asking the president to tell us when troops will be pulled back right now is akin to asking an offensive coordinator what play he will run at the 5-minute mark in the 4th quarter when we are just finishing halftime. We need to see how some things play out before we can give some kind of pull out date with any degree of certainty. Last edited by Arles : 06-29-2005 at 09:49 AM. |
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06-29-2005, 10:37 AM | #68 |
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On the issue of a withdrawal date, and on that issue only, two thoughts.
First, from a military standpoint it is a terrible move, as has been discussed above. You don't tell the enemy when you are leaving. It gives the enemy something to hope for. It strengthens their resolve. Battles and wars are often determined based on will, the simple will to continue. The enemy believes we do not have the will to continue. That is their only hope. Second, from a political standpoint it is a terrible move. First, it opens the President up for charges that he has given up on the war by setting a withdrawal date and that he has determined that the war was a mistake. And the very same people demanding a withdrawal date would make that accusation the second he set a date. That's how national politics work these days, and both sides do it, left and right. Second, if something happens that causes the President to slip the date, then he opens himself up for accusations that he lied and deliberately set the date too soon. In fact the very nasty nature of DC politics in some ways hems Bush in. He cannot admit he did anything wrong, he cannot do anything but stay the course, or he will open himself up to vicious new attacks. Just as he could not admit in the debate that he had made any mistake, because it would have been used in campaign ads against him (and the question was an obvious setup for that purpose), so he cannot admit mistakes here. Better to bear the criticism for not setting a date than admit any mistakes or give in in any way. |
06-29-2005, 10:45 AM | #69 | ||||
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BTW, for those of you interested, Arthur Chrenkoff does a real nice job of providing summaries on the progress in Iraq via the Wall Street Journal. In the spirit of full dislosure, he does lean to the right - but provides sources for each of his comments/reports. His article is released every couple weeks and that's where I have gotten much of my information on the progress of the Iraqi troops training and constitution. You can see his full report here:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110006875 Here are some notable excerpts: Quote:
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Here's a section on the overall security effort: Quote:
Finally, here's some info on the community support for both Iraqi and US forces: Quote:
I would suggest that many of you check out this report a couple times a month. Much of this is not highlighted by the mainstream media and there are also numerous reports given on the progress of our security training and transition of power benchmarks. Last edited by Arles : 06-29-2005 at 10:51 AM. |
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06-29-2005, 10:53 AM | #70 | |
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He advocated both an exit strategy and a timetable. He said they were linked to the final goal of victory. At the time, he said you can have one or the other, you have to have both. But I am certain that no one in the press is going to remind him of his statements before, and hold his feet to the fire on them. As for the goals you stated above, those are your interpretations. How come these weren't spelled out in his speech? If a president is going to make the important step of directly addressing the public, bypassing the media filters, then wouldn't you want to present the most direct information possible? Instead, the speech was a rehash of stuff we already knew, with no information of what is going to happen in the future, other than "difficult times still lie ahead". I am not asking him to tell me an exact date of when the troops are going to be pulled back. What I am asking for, from the government, is a list of steps they feel are needed to be accomplished before that can happen. There are many goals floating around out there that you mentioned: the Iraqi Constitution, self-sustaining security forces, the vote, etc. But no coherent plan has been put forth by the government to justify the money and resources being expended. It is obvious that the ideas of us being met with rose petals and having a major square in Baghdad named after Bush did not happen. To many people it appears that there is no plan B in place to deal with what is happening today, and the speech last night did nothing to shed any light on what the plans going forward are.
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06-29-2005, 11:06 AM | #71 | |
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Again, I think it's pretty obvious that the transition of power from the US to Iraqis needs to happen before we can start talking about troop pullback. And, theisis scheduled to occur over the next 12 months and president has laid out that plan. From last night alone:
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Last edited by Arles : 06-29-2005 at 11:07 AM. |
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06-29-2005, 11:16 AM | #72 |
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Troop pullback is a silly idea because it's not viable until the conditions are such that nobody will WANT to pull back troops. It just doesn't make logical sense, unless your position is that we should bury our heads in the sand and forget about the mideast.
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06-29-2005, 11:48 AM | #73 |
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The contention that President Bush has already provided a clear "exit strategy" is simply wrong. Nebulous comments about "we'll leave when they can defend themselves" or "we'll leave when the terrorists have been defeated" are not an exit strategy.
I think part of the problem is that the Administration keeps on moving the goalposts, in the eyes of the American people. We keep on seeing milestones go by with no end to American involvement in sight. "Major Combat Operations over", initial free elections, formation of a government, etc.... A good example of this is Arles' "12 months" comment. I'll remind you that Iraq isn't supposed to complete drafting a constitution in the next 12 months, it is supposed to complete drafting a constitution in the current 12 month period that started with the results of the election in January. I believe the actual target date for a constitution (and thus the end of this "interim" government) is still November of this year. However, given that it took several months after the elections to actually form a government, and that key government positions still remain unfilled, and that Sunnis still feel that they don't have a sufficient say in the drafting of a constitution, I'd expect the goalposts to keep on shifting. I also don't think it helps matters that the Vice President of the United States continues to give the impression that it will all be over soon. |
06-29-2005, 11:55 AM | #74 |
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You know, I find it amusing that we're being told we can't have a timetable because that will encourage the terrorists to simply hold out until we leave, while on the other hand we're being told that at some point the Iraqis are going to have to handle security by themselves.
Logically, unless we're planning on staying in Iraq until there is no terrorist and/or insurgent threat left (which is probably an impossibility), the Iraqis are going to have to combat terrorists and insurgents on their own anyway. So what's the point in not giving a timetable? |
06-29-2005, 12:03 PM | #75 | |
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I have to agree. They've been shifting since the war began. How many months after the first date for elections was set did elections actually go forward? And the American people don't see any end in sight because of this. I don't see any exit strategy at all, but Bush will push on until the American people get too fed up or the Iraqi people do. I think of the big reasons Colin Powell left is because all this flys in the face of his own Powell Doctrine, which the President said he believed in. There is no exit strategy here. Bush should take a page from Clinton's playbook and hand off running the nation building to his father. I have far more faith in G.H.W. Bush.
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06-29-2005, 12:31 PM | #76 | |
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This makes perfect sense, and you've given a good explanation of it. We cannot set a definite timetable because it will give the terrorists hope. But we have a goal of remaining until the Iraqis can handle the terrorists without our help. We are simply not going to put a date on that. If a timetable is announced, then the terrorists can formulate a strategy based on the timetable. By not announcing a timetable -- even if there is one -- they cannot formulate a timetable-based strategy. A timetable-based strategy might be to ramp down attacks for a time and build up resources and then launch an offensive timed to coincide with the departure of US troops. This might have a negative effect on Iraqi morale and give the appearance (as viewed by the media) that the terrorists are winning. So even if a timetable is set, it should never be announced. |
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06-29-2005, 12:34 PM | #77 | |
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More breaking of the Army....
The Not-So-Long Gray Line Quote:
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06-29-2005, 12:40 PM | #78 | |
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Ah, but I thought that the creation of a democracy in Iraq and the training of their forces would defeat the terrorists. Arguably if the terrorists held off until a turnover that would help Iraq do these things, and then they'd be in a much better position to handle the terrorists, no? Basically what you're saying is that we can't leave Iraq until Iraqis can handle the terrorist threat, and our measure for that is whether or not terrorists are making attacks in Iraq. Thus, we can't leave Iraq until the terrorist attacks stop. No quagmire there. |
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06-29-2005, 01:02 PM | #79 | |
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Quagmire quagmire quagmire. Grossly overused these days, so it has lost its cachet. I said nothing like you claim. We can leave Iraq when the Iraqi forces and government are strong enough to successfully combat the terrorists. The security forces have to be strong enough to defeat the terrorist/insurgent/whatever threat, to keep it at a low level. I never said all terrorist attacks must end before we can leave. Of course after we leave, the media will gleefully report the first terrorist attack in Iraq and the left will claim that it shows that we failed. |
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06-29-2005, 01:19 PM | #80 | |
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How does one determine this? |
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06-29-2005, 01:35 PM | #81 | |
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When we say so, of course!
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06-29-2005, 01:59 PM | #82 | |
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Arles and ISiddiqui- I'm quite enjoying this back and forth between you two. It's good stuff SI
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Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" Last edited by sterlingice : 06-29-2005 at 02:08 PM. |
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06-29-2005, 03:08 PM | #83 |
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I think we've reached a point where I feel the progress we've made on Iraqi forces and working in the different groups is enough to keep this current course for another year or so before re-evaluating (which I hope/think won't be needed). Others do not sure my confidence level on this.
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06-29-2005, 03:17 PM | #84 |
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I think people are just interested in a political discussion where no one has called the other poster a 'moron' yet .
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06-29-2005, 03:21 PM | #85 | |
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Yeah, that's probably what it really is- more about the issues involved and not just a "but any idiot can see this" "well, apparently you can't, idiot" exchange that passes for debate. SI
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06-29-2005, 03:30 PM | #86 | |
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06-29-2005, 03:45 PM | #87 | |||
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Estimated insurgents, June 2003: 5,000 Estimated insurgents, March 2005: 18,000 Average Number of Insurgent Attacks per Day — May 2003: 10, June 2004: 52, May 2005: 70 (hxxps://www.brookings.edu/views/op-ed/ohanlon/20050603.htm) Trained Iraqi Troops Needed by July 2006: 271,000 Trained Iraqi Troops, Per the Pentagon: 142,472 Trained Iraqi Troops, Per General Richard Meyers: 40,000 Trained Iraqi Troops, Per US Senator Joseph Biden: 4,000 to 18,000 Quote:
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I suppose that reasonable people can disagree on the meaning of the word 'progress'. |
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06-29-2005, 05:40 PM | #89 |
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Will Saletan makes a good case for a timetable.
Stand Aside It's time for welfare reform in Iraq. By William Saletan Posted Tuesday, June 28, 2005, at 10:39 PM PT Tonight President Bush explained how he plans to get our troops out of Iraq. "Our strategy can be summed up this way," he said. "As the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down." I've heard politicians say this sort of thing before. But the politicians were liberals, and the downtrodden people they talked about were needy Americans. As these folks learned to support themselves, government would no longer need to support them, the liberals promised. As the poor stood up, we would stand down. For 40 years, the central argument of the Republican Party—George W. Bush's party—was that liberals had it backward: If you prop people up, they'll never stand up, and you'll never stand down. You have to let go. As you stand down, they'll stand up. Which brings us to the occupation of Iraq. In blood and money, it's fast becoming the most expensive welfare program in the history of the world. Like other welfare programs, it was a good idea when it started. Like other welfare programs, it has begun to overtax the treasury and the public. Like other welfare programs, it warps the behavior of its beneficiaries. But in one respect, it's unique. It's the one welfare program conservatives can't criticize or even recognize, because they're the ones running it. We're "helping Iraqis rebuild their nation's infrastructure and economy," Bush said tonight. "Rebuilding a country after three decades of tyranny is hard, and rebuilding while at war is even harder. ... We're improving roads and schools and health clinics. We're working to improve basic services like sanitation, electricity, and water. And together with our allies, we'll help the new Iraqi government deliver a better life for its citizens." Deliver a better life for its citizens. Is it any mystery why polls have turned against the occupation? The people being polled are Americans. The people deriving a "better life" are Iraqis. Bush spent half the speech obscuring this gap. He equated Iraqi terrorists with the 9/11 hijackers and kept insisting that we're fighting for "our" freedom and security. But that spin lost its force long ago, when Saddam's weapons of mass destruction failed to materialize, forcing Bush to reframe the war as a democracy-spreading project. It's a noble war, but it's noble because it's altruistic. And people get tired of altruism. Rebuilding a country after three decades of tyranny is hard. That's the way liberals talked about the ghetto after decades of slavery and discrimination. Remember when Bush assured us Iraqis were strong, sophisticated, and ready to govern themselves once Saddam was gone? Now he's making excuses for them—and for his nation-building program. Bush talked a lot tonight about the thousands of ordinary Iraqis who have signed up to serve as police or soldiers. He's right about those people: They're standing up. The people who aren't standing up are Iraq's politicians. "The Iraqis have held free elections and established a Transitional National Assembly," Bush said. "The next step is to write a good constitution that enshrines these freedoms in permanent law. The Assembly plans to expand its constitutional drafting committee to include more Sunni Arabs." Plans to expand its drafting committee? The deadline for drafting the constitution is Aug. 15. The elections were five months ago. What have the assembly's Shiite, Sunni, and Kurdish leaders done for the past five months? Bickered over every petty dispute. How much of the constitution have they drafted? Zip. Why are they bickering instead of buckling down? Because they can. Because they don't have to cut fast deals, meet the deadline, and give every faction a stake in the government to hold off the insurgency. They don't have to do these things, because 140,000 American troops are propping them up. Setting a deadline for withdrawal of those troops "would send the wrong message to the Iraqis, who need to know that America will not leave before the job is done," Bush said tonight. But 45 seconds later, responding to calls for a troop increase, he cautioned, "Sending more Americans would undermine our strategy of encouraging Iraqis to take the lead in this fight." Which is it, Mr. President? Does our military presence encourage Iraqi self-sufficiency or weaken it? I understand why Bush doesn't want to talk about withdrawal. He knows terrorists feed on fear and weakness. He knows the surest way to lose this war is to think we've lost it. He sees it not as a story that's been written but as a story we're still writing. That's why he appealed tonight to our virtues: courage, steadfastness, perseverance, resolve. He doesn't believe in objective impossibility. He believes in free will. And he's right. But ultimately, this isn't our story. It's the Iraqis' story. They have to write it, and they have to start by drafting a constitution in six weeks. If they think Uncle Sam will prop them up till the job is done, the job will never get done. That's what conservatives used to understand about big government, before they started running it. |
06-29-2005, 06:23 PM | #90 | |
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06-29-2005, 06:25 PM | #91 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Just to clarify, I'm a currently on active duty in the US Air Force. A 15-year grizzled vet. |
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06-29-2005, 06:38 PM | #92 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Monroe, LA, USA
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Here is one snapshot of the situation in one part of Iraq from someone who should know. I don't think the brigade commander pulls any punches, describing both the good and the bad.
https://www.stewart.army.mil/RMT/Def...my.mil/rmt/_4b Newsletter #15 Families and Friends of the Vanguard Brigade It is plain hot -- the 110 degree barrier was broken June 15, and once broken, we had several days of similar temperatures. The upward trend continues, and we have started taking bets for projections on the first day over 120 degrees. These hot temperatures are made even more difficult for the average Iraqi citizen's quality of life. Electrical power is still very problematic with supply, distribution, and quality problems. Most citizens receive less than 12 hours of power throughout per day with rolling blackouts. While there are water problems, water is normally not a serious problem even with issues of both quality and pressure. However, some terrorists blew up the main water for the western side of Baghdad which could have a significant impact on water supply if the lines cannot be repaired in the next few days. We are working on contingency plans if repairs cannot be completed in time. Despite these problems, there seems to be building boom starting in Baghdad with evidence of new construction wherever we go...we see this as a very positive sign and shows both hope and optimism for the future inside the overall Iraqi population. Attacks were on the rise in our area this week but we want to put this in perspective. Over the past week, the number of attacks stayed quite low with continued days of relative calm. However, we know that days of calm are normally broken by one day of increased attacks, and we had a sense that an attempt to conduct a big attack may be forthcoming. This was especially true after our successful operations in Baghdad over the past month that reduced the number of car bomb attacks by over fifty percent. The first significant attack was a suicide vest bomber who went to restaurant and blew himself up, killing five Iraqi police officers and wounding dozens of innocent Iraqi civilians who were just enjoying their Sunday afternoon. The next morning, there was a large attack on Iraqi security forces with five car bombs, some roadside bombs, mortars, and small arms fire. We suspect this attack was disrupted by one of our patrols, but more importantly, the Iraqi security forces fought back hard out of their compounds and did not break. We think the attackers were further disrupted by the speed and intensity of our reinforcement. A police station and a police commando unit faced the brunt of the attack -- five were killed and 17 were wounded. While tragic that these men died while fighting and defending their friends and their posts, the relatively low number of casualties also reflects the growing competence of Iraqi forces. We have all read about similar attacks with much more tragic results. After the attack, we continued to assist Iraqi forces as they worked carefully developed intelligence to capture the attackers. By the end of the day, four attackers were killed (nine if we count the suicide bombers) and over 80 suspects were in custody. Many of these suspects were captured with tips from the local population. In addition, one Iraqi man told us that when the attackers were on the street, they opened fire on the local population to ensure they stayed indoors. This incident may reflect both the insurgents and terrorists growing concern that they are being blamed for the large number of civilian casualties - they have been losing support, but we think they may fear that the little support they still have is rapidly slipping away. Our analysis shows that most Iraqis just want to get on with their lives and look to the future. Finally, we are extremely proud of every Soldier and their efforts. We had a good week. They are working in some tough conditions, and their performance makes us all very proud. Vanguard! Rock of the Marne! Very Respectfully, Colonel Ed Cardon and Command Sergeant Major Gary Coker |
06-29-2005, 06:40 PM | #93 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Monroe, LA, USA
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And here is one more.
Families and Friends of the Vanguard Brigade It has hovered close to 110 degrees every day this week with some dust storms. These dust storms generally come from the Iraq’s western deserts. The best comparison -- we do not have foggy days – we have dusty days. Some days you can see for miles and on some days visibility is less than a mile. The major water line for western Baghdad has been repaired. The Iraqi government did a good job in rapidly repairing the lines to avert a water crisis. Some water pressure issues will exist until all of the repairs are completed. We are looking at some projects to further improve the water system. The trouble with the infrastructure is that it is just worn out. We constantly struggle with the balance between immediate repairs and long term solutions. We wrote last week about the 20 June attack against Iraqi security forces and how the Iraqi security forces showed that they can defend themselves against a large complex attack. This is a great story that is not being told well on the news. Iraqi Security Forces use to take terrible casualties trying to fight off these attacks and in some cases, their buildings were blown up and the security forces were executed. This time, the Iraqi security forces fought back hard and foiled the attack, and they even captured several of the attackers. What a great story, but most of the news effort was on the exploding car bombs, not on the successful actions of these brave Iraqi security forces. On 23 June, there was another large car bomb attack in Karada. Two car bombs exploded in front of two separate Shia hacinias (mosque). Two other car bombs exploded as first responders arrived on the scene. Iraqi Explosive Ordnance experts defused the last car bomb before it could explode. As we traveled to each site that day talking to the local citizens, there was a sense of resignation to this violence. What was even more amazing was the complete lack of Shia reaction to this obvious attempt to start sectarian violence. Even after a Sunni terrorist group claimed responsibility for the attack, there were no mass demonstrations or retaliatory attacks. This small example of Shia restraint is a positive sign for the future of Iraq. This attack may have completely backfired on its intended purpose -- we think it strengthened the resolve of the Iraqis to move forward, not apart. This week the news was full of stories about violence in Iraq – it must seem to those back in the United States that we are under constant attack. This is simply not true. Hundreds of our patrols went out in the streets for hours at a time with no contact. We had another day with no attacks at all. However, despite our continued optimism, Iraq remains a dangerous place. It has been a tough week for the brigade combat team – it is with great regret that we announce the deaths of Sergeant Duplantier II and Sergeant Joseph Tackett. Our prayers go out to them and their families. They are missed by us all. Finally, we are very thankful for your support. We assure you our Soldiers believe in their mission and are making a difference. They continue to work hard in tough, dangerous conditions, and they make us all extremely proud. Vanguard! Rock of the Marne! Very Respectfully, Colonel Ed Cardon and Command Sergeant Major Gary Coker |
06-29-2005, 08:31 PM | #94 | ||
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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You also forgot to add this part: Quote:
Try reading some of his novels and you'll see how he views West Point and the Army. FWIW, most of my classmates (Class of 1996) are out of the Army. There are less than half of us on Active Duty. Our five years of Active Duty service were up in June 2001....before 9/11. And your point is...? |
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06-29-2005, 08:32 PM | #95 | |
Coordinator
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06-30-2005, 02:05 AM | #96 | |
College Starter
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06-30-2005, 06:21 AM | #97 | |
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06-30-2005, 08:16 AM | #98 | |
Grey Dog Software
Join Date: Nov 2000
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I think the progress that we've made on setting up the Iraqi government, power handoff, training of troops and, most importantly, the groups of Iraqis taking over complete control of security sweeps and missions in many parts of the country all show a significant amount of overall progress that many people could miss if they looked only at the number of attacks against US forces or projected count of insurgents. There's a good chance that we could completely pass over power to Iraq, have eliminated 70-80% of the spots the insurgents can hide and have a trained Iraqi security team of over 200,000 people - and you would overlook all of it if no concrete reduction in the number of insurgents or number of attacks occurred. I think that's a very short-sighted way to look at the siutation in Iraq. As the Iraqis get closer and closer to taking over complete control, there is going to be more pressure than ever on the insurgents to try to stop it - which means more desperate attacks and more foreign fighters (hoping Iraq fails) coming over to help. Plus, we are talking about a total of about 15-18K insurgents making somewhere between 60 and 75 attack attempts a month. In a country of millions, there's a very good chance the insurgency will stay at that 15K level for a while. But that does not mean we are not making progess on our goals in Iraq. Last edited by Arles : 06-30-2005 at 08:17 AM. |
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06-30-2005, 08:20 AM | #99 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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Love the obfuscation of the points here guys. We've now settled into a nice repetition of:
"Facts" "Those facts don't mean anything!" "More Facts" "That author's a jerk!" etc.... |
06-30-2005, 08:29 AM | #100 | |||
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No point, per se, just providing a viewpoint from a West Point grad & former officer on attrition rates seen amongst officers in the Army today. Quote:
So this, presumably, makes his viewpoint less valid? Quote:
The Army did a lousy job retaining your classmates, and, by objective accounts, they're doing a more lousy job now. |
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