Werewolf LVIII: Clash of the Gods (GAME OVER)

[hoopsguy]

Hmm, who is more likely to have this role - Ardent or Schmidty? Discuss.

Cottus (The furious)

[Neon_Chaos]

Checking in.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Hmm, who is more likely to have this role - Ardent or Schmidty? Discuss.

Render.

[Barkeep49]

Can we unvote or is the AP spent once we cast the vote?

[Passacaglia]

Hey all. I am an Olympian.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Can we unvote or is the AP spent once we cast the vote?

Everyone has to cast a vote every day, or they forfeit their other Actionpoints any ways. You can change who you vote for as many times as you want during the day however by posting the update in the thread. You can also change how many Action points you spend and for what as many times as you want in PM to me.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Hey all. I am an Olympian.

Or maybe I should say, I am Olympian.

[Barkeep49]

So we're not really going to know where we're at in this game, really, in terms of voting.

[hoopsguy]

I'm guessing there is no indication of who spent how many action points, but just a total "votes" listed for each at the end of the day?

[Barkeep49]

Ok since hoops is back and I went away from my "hoops is always a wolf" suspicion last game when he was a friggin wolf, he's got my D1 vote this game as a result this game.

Vote hoopsguy

[hoopsguy]

Perfect logic, BK.

So, I'm doing some thinking on the voting for today. Is there a compelling reason on Day 1 to put extra votes in on a candidate? Obviously as we learn more information it makes sense to try and influence a good vote, but the ability to spend extra points adds another dynamic to measure when evaluating votes. I don't see how this is going to be pro-Olympian at the outset.

Thoughts?

[PurdueBrad]

I am Olympia (and so can you!) for the Stephen Colbert fans out there.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Perfect logic, BK.

It's a d1 vote. Let's not read more into it than that.

So, I'm doing some thinking on the voting for today. Is there a compelling reason on Day 1 to put extra votes in on a candidate? Obviously as we learn more information it makes sense to try and influence a good vote, but the ability to spend extra points adds another dynamic to measure when evaluating votes. I don't see how this is going to be pro-Olympian at the outset.

Thoughts?

I'm also concerned about people being able to manipulate the votes behind the scenes as I've already commented on. I'm not sure the best way to combat that.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Perfect logic, BK.

So, I'm doing some thinking on the voting for today. Is there a compelling reason on Day 1 to put extra votes in on a candidate? Obviously as we learn more information it makes sense to try and influence a good vote, but the ability to spend extra points adds another dynamic to measure when evaluating votes. I don't see how this is going to be pro-Olympian at the outset.

Thoughts?

I can't see any good reason to put more than one vote action or whatever the points are given.


I wonder if we get to know the total actions taken vs an individual?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

I can't see any good reason to put more than one vote action or whatever the points are given.


I wonder if we get to know the total actions taken vs an individual?

You think people will just let the APs go to waste?

[Neon_Chaos]

Ooooh, the gauntlet has been thrown by BK.

I am assuming that there are certain win conditions and situations that would restrict us from revealing who we are (other than the Olympians that the Titan must kill). Because if not, we can all reveal and weed out the Titans easily.

On second thought, Alan T has probably designed the roles to prevent that from happening.

Right?

[ntndeacon]

dola

another question...

can these points be hoarded. use our one action on a vote and that is it or one on a vote and one on an action and hoard the rest?

[Neon_Chaos]

*Titans

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

You think people will just let the APs go to waste?

no, but if we know vote action totals, that would be a big help in determining extra actions there. It might narrow the field we are looking at in certain cases.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Ooooh, the gauntlet has been thrown by BK.

I am assuming that there are certain win conditions and situations that would restrict us from revealing who we are (other than the Olympians that the Titan must kill). Because if not, we can all reveal and weed out the Titans easily.

On second thought, Alan T has probably designed the roles to prevent that from happening.

Right?

Certainly true for the Nuetral Titans and monsters, but aren't the Titans favoring Olympus counted for the good guys now?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

dola

another question...

can these points be hoarded. use our one action on a vote and that is it or one on a vote and one on an action and hoard the rest?

Points are either used each day or lost. You start the next day with the same number of points each day unless for some game reasons that you have a modified amount.

[hoopsguy]

In terms of the points - using the example that Alan does in the rules, I would hope that our Olympian bodyguard would have max points available to protect on Night 1 if we can't bank the points.

Again, I think there is increasing value to backing the votes with action points later in the game. Just not so much on Day 1. It is going to be hard enough to figure out what people are doing with their votes/points without adding that element on a day where we are essentially flying blind.

[Barkeep49]

I would think Alan's designed a game to account for a mass reveal after that worked so successfully recently but I'm always game for it.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Points are either used each day or lost. You start the next day with the same number of points each day unless for some game reasons that you have a modified amount.

I thought this was probably the case, but just to be sure I wanted it out there.

[Alan T]

Also remember each day is a 24 hour cycle. There is no night/day periods here. All actions must be submitted by 10pm EST Tuesday night as well.

[Barkeep49]

I'll say now that my power isn't so clear cut that I will want to invest 4 points in it, like the BG would.

Hoops: I agree that if some people are using their powers come Day 4 and you're spending 5 points on voting that you will have a large effect. We saw last game the large effect someone can have even just having 2 votes compared to someone else's 1, or 0. The relative imbalance will be even more this game.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I would think Alan's designed a game to account for a mass reveal after that worked so successfully recently but I'm always game for it.

Given that the Titans are hunting for three Olympians in their victory condition, I'm guessing that a mass reveal is not an optimal play.

Getting harder not to read anything into the early vote ...

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I would think Alan's designed a game to account for a mass reveal after that worked so successfully recently but I'm always game for it.

I am up for it if everyone is on-board with it.

But, yeah, I would think that Alan would have worked some mechanism to make sure a mass-reveal wouldn't be as successful as it was before.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Given that the Titans are hunting for three Olympians in their victory condition, I'm guessing that a mass reveal is not an optimal play.

Getting harder not to read anything into the early vote ...

Why? So what if the three Olympians reveal if we've found the Titans. The Olympians shouldn't reveal first but even if the Titans claimed one of them we'd be able to sort out pretty quickly who was telling the truth and who wasn't about that. Seems ot me like it would be a quick game if we got people on board with this.

[Alan T]

I would like to encourage people to not try the mass reveal strategy from a few games ago. I am not saying this because I feel that it will give the villagers an easy victory, but instead because i feel it will be giving the villagers an easy defeat. I put in a balance into the game to prevent a mass reveal from working (the same as PM sharing), and I can gurantuee that its unlikely that any titans would be caught from a mass reveal.

I am not preventing anyone from doing a reveal, but just want to make sure its known that there are safeguards in place as I don't want the game to go unbalanced the other direction.

[ntndeacon]

I certainly don't want any narrowing of suspects for those Titans. And How many Titans are there.

[hoopsguy]

Neon or Ardent - can either of you explain to me why a mass reveal would be good at all? There are so many names in the opening post that I really think that there would be a lot of room for people to hide in the latter stages.

Could we have someone make an early fake reveal? Maybe, but Zeus, Hades, and Poseidon are also going to want to fake reveal rather than give up their identity publicly. So they will be holding out until later to fake along with the Titans. The Titans know who they are, so we leave those three guys hung out to dry in a fake reveal scenario.

Again, I'm willing to be convinced but I'm surprised that two people I consider decent thinkers seem to be so at odds with my views right now.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Given that the Titans are hunting for three Olympians in their victory condition, I'm guessing that a mass reveal is not an optimal play.

Getting harder not to read anything into the early vote ...

Note that their victory condition says that they must kill the three olympians AND get a 1:1 ratio with the villagers to win. I assume that we can weed out who's who before they meet all of those objectives. Unless of course, the ratio of Olympians and Titans aren't as great. Do we know if the humans count as Olympians as well? I'm thinking no.

What I'm weary about is if there are roles out there that might have a different victory condition.

But I'm all up for it.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I would like to encourage people to not try the mass reveal strategy from a few games ago. I am not saying this because I feel that it will give the villagers an easy victory, but instead because i feel it will be giving the villagers an easy defeat. I put in a balance into the game to prevent a mass reveal from working (the same as PM sharing), and I can gurantuee that its unlikely that any titans would be caught from a mass reveal.

I am not preventing anyone from doing a reveal, but just want to make sure its known that there are safeguards in place as I don't want the game to go unbalanced the other direction.

Ok so my guess is that this means the Titans know which roles are actually in the game.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I would like to encourage people to not try the mass reveal strategy from a few games ago. I am not saying this because I feel that it will give the villagers an easy victory, but instead because i feel it will be giving the villagers an easy defeat. I put in a balance into the game to prevent a mass reveal from working (the same as PM sharing), and I can gurantuee that its unlikely that any titans would be caught from a mass reveal.

I am not preventing anyone from doing a reveal, but just want to make sure its known that there are safeguards in place as I don't want the game to go unbalanced the other direction.

Point taken, Alan T.

I assumed as much that there are mechanisms in place. And if it only gives easy defeat to the villagers, then let's forget about it.

Let's just have people reveal at the right time and the right moment so we can weed out the Titans properly.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Neon or Ardent - can either of you explain to me why a mass reveal would be good at all? There are so many names in the opening post that I really think that there would be a lot of room for people to hide in the latter stages.

Could we have someone make an early fake reveal? Maybe, but Zeus, Hades, and Poseidon are also going to want to fake reveal rather than give up their identity publicly. So they will be holding out until later to fake along with the Titans. The Titans know who they are, so we leave those three guys hung out to dry in a fake reveal scenario.

Again, I'm willing to be convinced but I'm surprised that two people I consider decent thinkers seem to be so at odds with my views right now.

It's just an idea, hoops. Granted, if Zeus/Hades/Poseidon also have different victory conditions, there is no reason why they can't sacrifice themselves to help weed out the Titans.

The point is moot, however. Seems like Alan T does have certain precautionary measures in place to make it unfavorable for the villagers to mass-reveal.

[Alan T]

Please note also that there are 4 "species" in the game. Titans, Monsters, Olympians and Mankind (humans). They count as different species in victory conditions, however various ones may be working with other teams and have been noted as such in their personal PM.

Titans must kill Zeus, Poseidon, Hades and come to a 1:1 ratio of titans in the game (even ones loyal to the Olympians) to Olympians (not counting monsters or humans).

Olympians must kill the Titans off completely (but does not have to kill off the monsters that may be assisting the Titans.)

Any other personal or small scale victory conditions have been noted in the PMs

[DaddyTorgo]

checking in. Been around but talking on the phone since PM's went out, so I didn't even read mine till just now.

Proud Olympian here.

[ntndeacon]

Alan will we get a vote action total at the end of the day or just a winner and who voted for who (with no vote action total given)?

[Schmidty]

Hi.

[Barkeep49]

Ok so interesting dynamic: THe Olympians have people helping them who they need to kill. The Titans have people trying to thwart them who they need to keep alive. With 19 players I'm thinking there could be as many as 6, but more likely 5, titans in the game total with 3 bad guys, plus 2 other Neutral/Pro Olympian Titans.

[DaddyTorgo]

neon...hard push for a mass reveal buddy...what gives?

[Barkeep49]

So given the clarification from Alan, what about a mankind reveal?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

Alan will we get a vote action total at the end of the day or just a winner and who voted for who (with no vote action total given)?

No one will know the final vote point total, just a list of whom voted for whom and who ended up dead. Vote points spent are a private thing between me, that player and anyone who might have a role to see such things.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Please note also that there are 4 "species" in the game. Titans, Monsters, Olympians and Mankind (humans). They count as different species in victory conditions, however various ones may be working with other teams and have been noted as such in their personal PM.

Titans must kill Zeus, Poseidon, Hades and come to a 1:1 ratio of titans in the game (even ones loyal to the Olympians) to Olympians (not counting monsters or humans).

Olympians must kill the Titans off completely (but does not have to kill off the monsters that may be assisting the Titans.)

Any other personal or small scale victory conditions have been noted in the PMs

Olympians have to kill all of the Titans? ithought it was just those Loyal to Croeses. So we kill even the ones that have loyalty to the Olympians?

[DaddyTorgo]

no vote points makes it impossible to use that like we did in say the Rome game to try to hold people accountable.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Alan T

No one will know the final vote point total, just a list of whom voted for whom and who ended up dead. Vote points spent are a private thing between me, that player and anyone who might have a role to see such things.

Gotcha. We could hope

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

So given the clarification from Alan, what about a mankind reveal?

That would be dangerous, Alan. If everyone doesn't reveal then the reveal doesn't work.

You narrow down the Olympians that the Titans must kill, and therefore, make it easier for the Olympians.

Mass reveals only work when everyone reveals.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Hi.

Hi.

[Alan T]

To further clarify the victory conditions (since I am not sure those are clear, and this is the time to clarify things)

5 Titans (good or bad), 5 Olympians, 1 monster, 3 humans = Titan win if Zeus, Poseidon and Hades are dead. Titans only care about TItans compared to Olympians, they do not care about monster or human totals.

3 Titans (all good titans left), 4 Olympians, 2 monsters, 4 humans = Olympians win.
Olympians only care about the titans working with Cronus. They do not care about monsters or humans in their victory conditions.

Everyone else either wins with the Olympians or the Titans or have some other individual victory condition listed in their PM.