Trump Indictment/Trial thread-2023

[Ksyrup]

"If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appoi..."

"Oh, he can afford one. They just can't afford to have him as a client."

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Lathum

God I hope this happens

I don't. It's inhumane to treat anybody that way, including people we Really Don't Like.

I'm on the side of thinking the smart thing, from a purely self-preservation standpoint, would be for Trump to leave the country. I'm not confident in him realizing that though, and I don't want it to happen anyway.

[JPhillips]

Trump: I need an attorney.

Firm: Ok. Here's what retainer we'll need.

Trump: I'll pay that later. Trust me.

Firm: (Hangs up)

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Sounds like Trump is having a really difficult time finding an attorney to represent him on this. David Markus turned him down, although I'm not sure what made Trump think he'd be interested to begin with.

I thought Todd Blanche was handling this since the two DC attorneys stepped down.


Edit: Now I see what is going on. They need someone from the local, and they can't find anyone.

[GrantDawg]

pic.twitter.com/cAuZJTUvwC

— mike luckovich (@mluckovichajc) June 12, 2023

[Ksyrup]

I just saw Trumpers referred to as the Chucklefuck Mafia and I can't stop laughing.

[GrantDawg]

Chris Kise is going to be the lawyer from the local bar. They are still shopping for a bigger local name.

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[CrimsonFox]

Is everyone ready for the maganuts to storm the castle tomorrow?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I don't. It's inhumane to treat anybody that way, including people we Really Don't Like.

I'm on the side of thinking the smart thing, from a purely self-preservation standpoint, would be for Trump to leave the country. I'm not confident in him realizing that though, and I don't want it to happen anyway.

Like they say, don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I don't. It's inhumane to treat anybody that way, including people we Really Don't Like.

I'm on the side of thinking the smart thing, from a purely self-preservation standpoint, would be for Trump to leave the country. I'm not confident in him realizing that though, and I don't want it to happen anyway.

That would be admitting that he lost, and he's incapable of that.

[Lathum]

No chance he takes a deal. He will go to trial and delay through the election.

[Lathum]

So if the MAGA Trumpanzies go nuts tomorrow with a 1/6 type event or one of them starts shooting does it help or hurt Trump?

[GrantDawg]

I've been thinking about the same thing. Violence is never popular.

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[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I've been thinking about the same thing. Violence is never popular.

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You guys remember J6 right? And who is the front runner for the Republican party?

They are counting on violence.

[GrantDawg]

That hasn't won them elections, though. Independents, moderates, soccer moms. These are not groups that respond well to violence.

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[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Like they say, don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

there's SO MUCH IRONY in that song considering it was the Baretta theme

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Lathum

No chance he takes a deal. He will go to trial and delay through the election.

At this point he pretty much has to. His most likely way to avoid punishment is to either shut down the prosecution or pardon himself.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

That hasn't won them elections, though. Independents, moderates, soccer moms. These are not groups that respond well to violence.

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I understand what you are saying, but Trump barely lost the last election. When all was said and done, things tipped via Pennsylvania, Georgia, Arizona and Nevada right?

The violence will seek to intimidate most voters. As things ramp up, there will be more and more rhetoric to violence. You have people in goverment who are all for it. If things spill over tomorrow, bet your bottom dollar that voting areas in battleground states will be targeted, if not just checking voter registration and intimidating voters at their home.

I think you'll find the rhetoric now is that if Trump is actually brought to trial, people will be hunted and killed. I knew there would be violence J6 and I'm sure tomorrow will be the start of targeting opposition to Trump and MAGA.

Trump/MAGAT is an ideology that is just begging for bloodshed. If death happens tomorrow, government supporters to Trump will escalate it as a call to arms. There is no de-escalation with the MAGAT ideology, there is only a doubling down.

[GrantDawg]

Ramping up the violence will come with a severe backlash. It will not end as good thing for the MAGA movement. That may be what they hope for, but that will not be were it will go.

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[Lathum]

If there is violence in the name of Trump I wonder if he loses the religious right.

The whole Thou Shall Not Kill thing seems pretty important to them

[NobodyHere]

Are you being sarcastic?

[Flasch186]

I assume so


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[CrimsonFox]

MAGA people already gathering outside the courthouse.

[Qwikshot]

I have seen enough MAGATs flying the Trump 2024 Revenge flags to know who the revenge is for, and how it will be dispensed out.

They want to intimidate/discourage/violate the regular voter and they'll do anything to subvert question the vote.

They really do want to start killing people, Trump being incarcerated would be enough I think. They don't believe any other candidate is worthwhile, it really is Trump or death.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Like they say, don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

I agree with that. I don't agree with 23-hour-a-day isolation being an appropriate punishment for any crime.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I agree with that. I don't agree with 23-hour-a-day isolation being an appropriate punishment for any crime.

So he should be free to spill state secrets?

IMO if he is found guilty he should be executed for treason.

[Brian Swartz]

I would suggest reading up on what treason is. This isn't that. Are you saying you think we should execute people who don't commit capital crimes because we think they did something that *should* be?

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So he should be free to spill state secrets?

IMO if he is found guilty he should be executed for treason.

I don't necessarily agree with that, but I do think you're right that Trump is probably spilling secrets wherever he goes and sticking him in prison probably puts all those secrets at even more risk.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I would suggest reading up on what treason is. This isn't that. Are you saying you think we should execute people who don't commit capital crimes because we think they did something that *should* be?

I know what treason is.

Are you so naïve as to think he hasn't used those documents to leverage shit with the Saudis and other bad actors?

[Lathum]

apparently a judge has ruled no cell phones allowed in the court room so details will be slow coming.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Are you so naïve as to think he hasn't used those documents to leverage shit with the Saudis and other bad actors?

We don't know what he's done in that area. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the indictment doesn't address that. Even if it had, that would still not be treason.

My point is that if he's found guilty of the crimes in the indictment, I think he should be given the punishment the law stipulates for those crimes. Unless i'm misinformed, that's 10-20 years maximum for the worst of them. That would mean Trump dies in prison if convicted.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

That would mean Trump dies in prison if convicted.

We can hope

[CrimsonFox]

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I know what treason is.

Are you so naïve as to think he hasn't used those documents to leverage shit with the Saudis and other bad actors?

OH NO! He's going to tell Hayden Christenson?!?

[Lathum]

Watching coverage of outside the courthouse. So far 2 things stand out.

These people who support him are sick. Like, really mentally ill.

Currently Trump supporters and protesters are intermingling. So far seems somewhat peaceful, but if they are still intermingled when more people show up and the likes of Kari Lake start whipping them into a frenzy it could get bad.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Lathum

These people who support him are sick. Like, really mentally ill.

It is the subset of supporters who are going to come out for this.

[Atocep]

The most frustrating part of this for me is reading and listening to the takes of people that have absolutely no idea how document classification/declassification works.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Watching coverage of outside the courthouse. So far 2 things stand out.

These people who support him are sick. Like, really mentally ill.

Currently Trump supporters and protesters are intermingling. So far seems somewhat peaceful, but if they are still intermingled when more people show up and the likes of Kari Lake start whipping them into a frenzy it could get bad.

It's really hard to believe that 10 years ago Kari Lake was a likeable, tolerant person, who was one of the most popular newscasters in Arizona. Delusion and greed are powerful drugs.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The most frustrating part of this for me is reading and listening to the takes of people that have absolutely no idea how document classification/declassification works.

I read an editorial this morning that basically reduced the entire thing to an administrative issue. "

Like if trump parked in a no parking zone, or jaywalked. That all sorts of politicians get dinged for admin issues, and that at worst, this whole thing should only amount to a 'slap on the wrists' but here we are"

[Thomkal]

He and Walt Nauta are officially under arrest

[albionmoonlight]

Sounds like the "media will outnumber protestors" predictions were right (or close to right).

Never not been about crowd size with him.

[Lathum]

Just heard one of the Ohio senators say they will refuse to vote on any of Biden’s DOJ nominations to grind the justice dept to a halt. These people are deranged.

[GrantDawg]

J.D Vance. He said he is going to put a hold on all nominees, which means he won't allow a vote.

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[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Sounds like the "media will outnumber protestors" predictions were right (or close to right).

Never not been about crowd size with him.

But the folks that did show up are gems, exhibit A talking about Judge Cannon

“She’s one of us,” Estrada said, referencing Cannon’s Cuban heritage. “We already know what’s going to happen—this corruption won’t stand. Everyone here knows that. That's why you see so many smiles. We're all just enjoying this beautiful moment before we win again.”

Last time I think he 'won' was 2016, which is a long time ago my man.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

J.D Vance. He said he is going to put a hold on all nominees, which means he won't allow a vote.

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There needs to be guardrails against shit like this.

[Atocep]

And he's back to claiming the DOJ planted the classified documents that he was allowed to take because he declassified them.

[Ksyrup]

Wasn't someone around here arguing that JD Vance was one of the "normal" ones?

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

We don't know what he's done in that area. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the indictment doesn't address that.

I would imagine the prosecutors didn't go that way because it would be harder to prove, but it's not exactly a secret that Mar-a-Lago has been awash with foreign agents: Mar-a-Lago a magnet for spies, officials warn after nuclear file reportedly found | Mar-a-Lago | The Guardian

How many foreign agents saw or stole (or were shown by Trump) sensitive national defense documents?

Even if it had, that would still not be treason.

"Aid and comfort" to the nation's enemies could very well include furnishing them with sensitive national defense documents. Arguably. Regardless of which part of the Constitution or U.S. code you want to refer, the point is that his actions with these documents (even the actions described in the tape transcripts alone) are potentially ruinous for our intelligence apparatus and that of our allies. Frankly, it should be a hanging offense.

Ethel and Julius Rosenberg were executed for basically this, though the charge there was espionage.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Wasn't someone around here arguing that JD Vance was one of the "normal" ones?

he's even the one who explained that being pro-Trump took over everything else including reality

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Wasn't someone around here arguing that JD Vance was one of the "normal" ones?

I think you are referencing something I said where the context was in comparison to other candidates, Oz, Walker, et al.