NFL Week 10

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

This is the perfect week for Jacksonville to get their first win. In my survival pool I am the only person who didn't pick Tennessee.

[RainMaker]

Bears have a bad coach.

[Thomkal]

wow how is that not a fumble in the SF/CAR game?

[TroyF]

Last week against Washington and now this week against the Chargers, the Denver D is showing what they lacked the first seven games. Once Miller got his footing, you now see the Denver pass rush getting pressure with four guys. Suddenly, the DB's who were being torched to a crisp look like NFL players again. (though I wish they would stop dropping INT's)

Now, if the offense doesn't get some first downs, the defense will implode. You can't stay on the field this long. Granted, the offense is 1 for 2 with a long TD, but the defense is on the field way too long. Horrible, horrible drop from Welker there. He needs to make that catch. (Patriots fans who will be here screaming about "I told you so", I will still take him, even with the occasional drop)

[Masked]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

wow how is that not a fumble in the SF/CAR game?

Agreed - there appeared to be no doubt that the SF receiver caught the ball and fumbled.

[tucker rocky]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

wow how is that not a fumble in the SF/CAR game?

Looked like SF receiver made a football move(heading upfield), call on the field should've been reversed.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

They've actually driven the ball well but can't finish drives. Crosby and the secondary are still awful. About their only chance to win a game without Rodgers is in two weeks against Minnesota. Their only hope is they go 1-2 without Rodgers and then he can come back for Thanksgiving at Detroit.

You do realize they play the Giants next week?

[Thomkal]

Ah there's Carson Palmer keeping his streak alive-9 straight games with an INT. Most in the NFL. Lovely

[Radii]

Vernon Davis out for the rest of the game.

[Radii]

Between drops from the WRs, giving the ball away after a blocked punt, and now a missed FG, Carolina is just missing too many opportunities against a good team.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You do realize they play the Giants next week?

That will be a major NFC toilet bowl. Hopefully, for the Pack, Eli decides to give us a few pick 6s.

[kingfc22]

Damn. If only one of those fumbles bounced the Niners way.

[Radii]

Whew. What a huge win!!!!

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Bears have a bad coach.

Already unhappy with Mark Trestman? What more can he do? The Bears actually have a good offense for the first time in 25 years and the defense for how untalented they are actually do decent enough to win games.

He will have your offense clicking on all cylinders with the next 2 years.

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by Arles

That will be a major NFC toilet bowl. Hopefully, for the Pack, Eli decides to give us a few pick 6s.

I think Rodgers is such a difference maker that they would have beaten Chicago, Philly, and NYG with him but will lose all 3 without him. Rodgers masks the major holes in the team. There's also many injuries elsewhere which hurt. The Bears and the Packers have just been devastated by injuries this season. If the Lions can't win the division this year they'll never win it.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

The rules for a completed catch change from week to week and from crew to crew. Jordy Nelson has his hand under the ball and secured against his stomach. Rules state the ball can touch the ground as long as the player has control. That's exactly what Jordy did and Mike Carey still ruled it incomplete so his crew wasn't embarrassed getting two calls in a row overturned by McCarthy's challenges.

He was bobbling the ball and didn't secure it until after the ball hit the ground. The ground helped him secure it.

[ColtCrazy]

Worst Colts game I've been to in 20 years. But, some odd plays led to TDs for the Rams so I'm not panicked. And Luck isn't liable to be that bad very often. Plus, the Titans lost and so did the Bengals, so it's wash anyway. Figure the Colts need to get the 3 seed to avoid Broncos/Chiefs WC opponent.

In fantasy, Demarius Thomas and Megatron totally saved me from starting Kaepernick over Keenum.

[jbergey22]

Drew Brees makes offense look too easy.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Already unhappy with Mark Trestman? What more can he do? The Bears actually have a good offense for the first time in 25 years and the defense for how untalented they are actually do decent enough to win games.

He will have your offense clicking on all cylinders with the next 2 years.

I'm quite pleased with him as a first year coach. The football is actually watchable and far better than I was expecting to see considering the level of change there was to the offensive philosophy and playbook. I was expecting 5-6 wins with 7-9 likely being the ceiling for this team.

He's had some good games coaching (Bengals. Green Bay) and some bad ones (Lions). When I compare him to the other first year coaches around the NFL it's hard to be disappointed.

[cartman]

Sadly, this game should be a big slap up along side Jerruh's head that he needs to step aside and hire a real GM. He hands out the big contracts, but doesn't leave anything for depth. But I'm certain he is not going to see it that way.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Still John Shoop right?

Entered the game 2nd in the league in scoring and 5th on offensive DVOA.

Trestman had some bad calls today, but I'm not willing to put leaving Cutler in on him without knowing what they know on the sideline. Football isn't a text sim and there are egos and locker rooms coaches have to deal with. If Cutler insisted on playing and the doctors cleared him then you have to play him.

Putting Bush in to run on 4th and 1 was the worst call I saw from him today.

If you're going to cite stats/rankings in support of Trestman, how about listing where they are on defense? Don't bother. They stink. Being a head coach on game day is about making good decisions or at least avoiding bad ones. Why did it take him 28 minutes to figure out that McCown was a better option in the 2nd half? And I don't care if the medical staff cleared him. Anyone with half a brain could see that Cutler couldn't move around much and was getting knocked down all game long. And how do you not let Gould try that field goal? Nope. Try to run the ball -- which the Bears don't do well -- on 4th and a long one. Trestman's getting a lot of love it seems but I am more inclined to give it to Kromer. The Bears needed to win this game and probably should have. Bad coaching decisions prevented that, imo.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

If you're going to cite stats/rankings in support of Trestman, how about listing where they are on defense? Don't bother. They stink.

10th in DVOA. Part of why bears fans think the defense sucks, and I've been guilty of it too, is they've been spoiled over the past several years. Bears fans are learning what an average NFL defense looks like this year. It's not a terrible defense, but it's not very good either.

Originally Posted by weegeebored

Being a head coach on game day is about making good decisions or at least avoiding bad ones. Why did it take him 28 minutes to figure out that McCown was a better option in the 2nd half? And I don't care if the medical staff cleared him. Anyone with half a brain could see that Cutler couldn't move around much and was getting knocked down all game long.

There isn't a coach in the NFL that's taking his franchise QB out unless the QB asks to come out or the medical staff pulls him. It creates more problems down the road than it's worth.

Cutler eventually came out because he asked to come out. Which, like it or not, is the way it works in the NFL.

Originally Posted by weegeebored

And how do you not let Gould try that field goal? Nope. Try to run the ball -- which the Bears don't do well -- on 4th and a long one.

NFL teams don't go for it on 4th and 1 enough. Touchdowns win games more often than not. I 100% agree with the decision to go for it on 4th and 1. The problem was bringing in a backup running back to run the ball because he's the designated "short yardage back".

Oh, the bears are 6th in the NFL in rushing DVOA and middle of the pack on power runs (would probably be higher if Bush wasn't getting most of those carries).

Originally Posted by weegeebored

Trestman's getting a lot of love it seems but I am more inclined to give it to Kromer. The Bears needed to win this game and probably should have. Bad coaching decisions prevented that, imo.

Bad coaching decisions did play a role in this loss, but you're also a guy that pegged the coach that has this offense 2nd in the NFL in scoring and among the top 5 overall as the 2nd coming of John Shoop. But I guess credit should go to the guy that's running Trestman's system rather than Trestman himself.

[Danny]

The boys making mark Ingram look like a hofer

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

If you're going to cite stats/rankings in support of Trestman, how about listing where they are on defense? Don't bother. They stink. Being a head coach on game day is about making good decisions or at least avoiding bad ones. Why did it take him 28 minutes to figure out that McCown was a better option in the 2nd half? And I don't care if the medical staff cleared him. Anyone with half a brain could see that Cutler couldn't move around much and was getting knocked down all game long. And how do you not let Gould try that field goal? Nope. Try to run the ball -- which the Bears don't do well -- on 4th and a long one. Trestman's getting a lot of love it seems but I am more inclined to give it to Kromer. The Bears needed to win this game and probably should have. Bad coaching decisions prevented that, imo.

You must want Lovie Smith back. He will take back in time to 1980 where you always kick and have a poor offense 90 percent of the time. You really need to be patient with him. Before Cutler got injured that offense was clicking.

He is aggressive and leaves himself open to the Monday morning QB but once upon a time until people learned to just trust his judgement Bill Bellichek was/is the same way.

Send him to Minnesota if you dont want him.

One of the guys on his coaching staff, Carson Walsh, I went to college with and am pulling for these guys.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Danny

The boys making mark Ingram look like a hofer

LOL, that is for sure. I was thinking he was playing for Alabama against Chattanooga for awhile.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Bad coaching decisions did play a role in this loss, but you're also a guy that pegged the coach that has this offense 2nd in the NFL in scoring and among the top 5 overall as the 2nd coming of John Shoop. But I guess credit should go to the guy that's running Trestman's system rather than Trestman himself.

Kromer's the offensive line coach/coordinator and the line, imo, is the biggest reason the Bears are better offensively this year, not Trestman. Turner's offense would have looked better with this O-line. Let me give you the most important stat: 5-4. At the end of the year, tell me again about that NFL scoring rank when the Bears are out of the playoffs.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

Kromer's the offensive line coach/coordinator and the line, imo, is the biggest reason the Bears are better offensively this year, not Trestman. Turner's offense would have looked better with this O-line. Let me give you the most important stat: 5-4. At the end of the year, tell me again about that NFL scoring rank when the Bears are out of the playoffs.

I am not a Bears fan, but do you think they are more talented than their 5-4 record? I personally do not think so. I haven't watched enough to comment on Trestman specifics, but I definitely dont see the Bears as an underachieving team, especially given Cutler's recent injury troubles.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

Kromer's the offensive line coach/coordinator and the line, imo, is the biggest reason the Bears are better offensively this year, not Trestman. Turner's offense would have looked better with this O-line. Let me give you the most important stat: 5-4. At the end of the year, tell me again about that NFL scoring rank when the Bears are out of the playoffs.

Yeah, of course it would have very little to do with Trestman, a well known offensive guru. Has to be the line coach.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

You must want Lovie Smith back.

No thank you. He had more than enough time to prove his incompetence. Many Bears fans love Trestman because he's the anti-Lovie -- all offense, no defense. And the NFL is all about offense now. But Lovie and a bad offense had 10 wins last year. I'm not sure the Bears have five more wins in them this year. And Trestman will get a pass because his offense is ranked in the top five, and he had so many injuries to deal with, yadda, yadda, yadda. Meanwhile, Bears fans suffer with their team not in the playoffs -- again.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Yeah, of course it would have very little to do with Trestman, a well known offensive guru. Has to be the line coach.

Yeah, he's so good every NFL team wanted him.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

No thank you. He had more than enough time to prove his incompetence. Many Bears fans love Trestman because he's the anti-Lovie -- all offense, no defense. And the NFL is all about offense now. But Lovie and a bad offense had 10 wins last year. I'm not sure the Bears have five more wins in them this year. And Trestman will get a pass because his offense is ranked in the top five, and he had so many injuries to deal with, yadda, yadda, yadda. Meanwhile, Bears fans suffer with their team not in the playoffs -- again.

Understand the frustration. Like Danny mentioned, I dont think the Bears are any better talentwise than a 8-8 team. He has helped give you a solid offensive line, helped give you another very good WR who did very little last year, and found a way to best utilize Forte.

He will have the entire off season to now focus on fixing that defense. They just dont have a lot of talent on that end of the ball. Lovie made the defense appear reasonable simply from calling such a conservative gameplan.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

Yeah, he's so good every NFL team wanted him.

The Head Coach is in charge. He hires his assistants, he decides on the gameplan, he tells his offensive line coach how he wants the fundamentals of offensive line play taught. A good head coach hires good people and stays out of the way unless he is needed. You cant give the offensive line coach this much credit without giving credit back to the head coach.

If the offensive line coach was so good he would have been named the head coach instead of Trestman or be a head coach somewhere else.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by Danny

I am not a Bears fan, but do you think they are more talented than their 5-4 record?

Good question. They have a lot of talent on the offensive side of the ball, especially with the o-line playing as well as it has. I expected them to have 8 or 9 wins, so I guess I shouldn't feel too bad. But I got some false hope early, and thought that -- without some bad coaching decisions -- they could have a couple more wins and be in solid playoff contention.

jbergey is right -- I'm just frustrated.

[britrock88]

PANTHARS

[Butter]

Typical Bengals, acted like they won the game when they only tied it. Dalton was horrific again yesterday. Don't know what it is about him and road games.

I think my favorite Dierdorf moment was when Sanu (or Jones?) was going up for a catch late in the game and had an arm held that prevented him from reaching for the ball, and Dierdorf says "that's not interference, that's just good coverage." I would have to think that would be one of the textbook cases of interference right there.

Anyway, just need to beat the Browns next week then rest up for the stretch run of some tough games.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

One of the guys on his coaching staff, Carson Walsh, I went to college with and am pulling for these guys.

Did you go to Winona too? Lived next door to him I think my Junior Year.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Already unhappy with Mark Trestman? What more can he do? The Bears actually have a good offense for the first time in 25 years and the defense for how untalented they are actually do decent enough to win games.

He will have your offense clicking on all cylinders with the next 2 years.

That offense is one of the most talented in the league. Has only one weakness at right tackle. Making them look good shouldn't require a monumental coaching effort.

The defense has gotten worse. Most of their young talent has regressed this season a great deal. Maybe Lovie was just great at turning lemons into lemonade, but it is something that has happened. And special teams has had another dropoff which is expected after losing Toub.

For all the talk of scheme and systems, yesterday showed why Trestman is not ready to be an NFL Head Coach. An offensive coordinator, sure. QB coach, definitely. But he's not a head coach. Cutler should have never been out there and at worst should have been pulled when it was clear he had no mobility. People can talk about not pulling your "franchise QB" but that is what a coach is paid for. That decision cost the Bears the division title and likely a trip to the playoffs. There is no way to defense it.

He also made some bizarre playcalls in that game. Not taking the 3 I'll give him a pass on, but using Bush who has been poor all season in short yardage was a mistake. Calling the inside slant before the half was silly when you have receivers as big and strong as the Bears who should be isolated on the outside.

But both 2-point conversion calls sealed up this as a complete coaching disaster. The first attempt (which they got bailed out on) he took out the Bears two best offensive players for the most important play of the season. That's right, he took out their two best receivers and called a passing play that focused on getting the ball to a backup TE. And the 2nd attempt is a running play which had not worked all game to the left side of the line which is much worse at run blocking than the right.

He got cute with his playcalling at bad times and it cost them. That's shit you might be able to get away with in the CFL but doesn't cut it in the NFL. Just disappointing that the Bears have to go through growing pains with a head coach who is not ready for primetime.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Typical Bengals, acted like they won the game when they only tied it. Dalton was horrific again yesterday. Don't know what it is about him and road games.

I think my favorite Dierdorf moment was when Sanu (or Jones?) was going up for a catch late in the game and had an arm held that prevented him from reaching for the ball, and Dierdorf says "that's not interference, that's just good coverage." I would have to think that would be one of the textbook cases of interference right there.

Anyway, just need to beat the Browns next week then rest up for the stretch run of some tough games.

And when the Bengals DB did it later Dierdorf was screaming for interference. He's horrible.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

10th in DVOA. Part of why bears fans think the defense sucks, and I've been guilty of it too, is they've been spoiled over the past several years. Bears fans are learning what an average NFL defense looks like this year. It's not a terrible defense, but it's not very good either.

Not a good year to be touting DVOA, especially when it comes to the Bears. Up until last week they had missed on every single Bears pick this season. It's clear DVOA had grossly overvalued the Bears.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Great win for the Panthers. I know their defense is really good, but good lord that was a piss-poor effort by the 49er offense. Now it looks as if the road to the title game will go through Seattle, and that's bad news for everyone in the NFC.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Did you go to Winona too? Lived next door to him I think my Junior Year.

Small world. Yes I did 95-99.

[RainMaker]

98-02 here. I didn't even know he was a coach on the Bears till you mentioned it. He was a good player.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

98-02 here. I didn't even know he was a coach on the Bears till you mentioned it. He was a good player.

Yes he was. He coached with Trestman in Canada last year when they won the title.

[Arles]

Packers are working out Matt Flynn today. Word is, even if he's signed, he would only be a backup to Tolzien because of Wallace's injury. How far has Matt Flynn fallen? If he returns to a team where he played the best, he would only be a backup behind a guy elevated from the practice squad last week ...

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Arles

Packers are working out Matt Flynn today. Word is, even if he's signed, he would only be a backup to Tolzien because of Wallace's injury. How far has Matt Flynn fallen? If he returns to a team where he played the best, he would only be a backup behind a guy elevated from the practice squad last week ...

I think the bigger question is. How did he have that 6-7 TD game in the first place?

Also, his practice performance cant be that much better than Tebow as it seems Flynn is commonly dropping his depth chart position prior to season beginning.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Arles

Packers are working out Matt Flynn today. Word is, even if he's signed, he would only be a backup to Tolzien because of Wallace's injury. How far has Matt Flynn fallen? If he returns to a team where he played the best, he would only be a backup behind a guy elevated from the practice squad last week ...

I think there are concerns that Matt Flynn is injured or has some lingering problem that's having a pretty big impact on his performance. I forgot where I read that, but I read it somewhere.

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I think the bigger question is. How did he have that 6-7 TD game in the first place?

The Lions.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Great win for the Panthers. I know their defense is really good, but good lord that was a piss-poor effort by the 49er offense. Now it looks as if the road to the title game will go through Seattle, and that's bad news for everyone in the NFC.

I had the feeling throughout that if Vernon Davis had played the second half it would have looked a lot like the Carolina/Seattle or Carolina/Buffalo games with Carolina falling behind in the end.

Alternatively, Carolina made so many mistakes themselves on offense with dropped passes on 3rd downs and a couple special teams screwups that Carolina really should have scored more as well. I think this should have played out like a tight 20-17 game where the defenses looked really good, but the offenses at least looked competent.


I was terrified of this game, fearing that Carolina was that team that beats up on bad ones but can't hang with good ones... now, I'm legitimately excited to see what they can do at home next week vs New England. I'm not saying Carolina should dominate or anything, but its kinda nice feeling like my team can hang with anyone!

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Radii

I had the feeling throughout that if Vernon Davis had played the second half it would have looked a lot like the Carolina/Seattle or Carolina/Buffalo games with Carolina falling behind in the end.

Alternatively, Carolina made so many mistakes themselves on offense with dropped passes on 3rd downs and a couple special teams screwups that Carolina really should have scored more as well. I think this should have played out like a tight 20-17 game where the defenses looked really good, but the offenses at least looked competent.


I was terrified of this game, fearing that Carolina was that team that beats up on bad ones but can't hang with good ones... now, I'm legitimately excited to see what they can do at home next week vs New England. I'm not saying Carolina should dominate or anything, but its kinda nice feeling like my team can hang with anyone!

There's a very good chance Carolina could rush for 200+ yards next week.

[Lathum]

I know we have a lot of Niners fans on the board. Anyone feel like they traded the wrong quarterback?

[RainMaker]

I don't think Kaepernick was worth all the hype he received this offseason. But he really doesn't have any weapons to work with outside of Vernon Davis. And Davis is really inconsistent. That team desperately needs a threat spread out wide.